From brian at 8ball.wox.org Sat Feb 1 05:14:04 2003 From: brian at 8ball.wox.org (Brian Hicks) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Happy Mailman Day! Message-ID: <20030201131404.GA25713@8ball.wox.org> In honor of Mailman Day, here's a joke: One day a pirate walks into a bar with a steering wheel attached to his crotch. So the bartender says to him, "You know you have a steering wheel attached to your crotch?" And the pirate says, "Aaar, its driving me nuts!" From nick at zork.net Sat Feb 1 13:40:49 2003 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification] Message-ID: <20030201214049.GI14319@zork.net> Happy mailman day, everybody! We finally lost Craig McPherson! ----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net ----- gasp@runbox.com has been removed from CrackMonkey. craig@laceyonline.com has been removed from CrackMonkey. ----- End forwarded message ----- From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Sat Feb 1 20:27:10 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Le Carre Lingerie Message-ID: <20030202042710.GP27070@localhost.localdomain> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2003/02/01/do0102.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2003/02/01/ixopinion.html -- Bob Bernstein No no no, my fish's name is Eric, Eric the fish. He's an halibut. From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Sun Feb 2 12:11:10 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Today's Sig File Message-ID: <20030202201110.GB837@localhost.localdomain> "Premature optimization is the root of all evil." -- Donald E. Knuth ...as found on current-users@netbsd.org -- Bob Bernstein No no no, my fish's name is Eric, Eric the fish. He's an halibut. From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Sun Feb 2 17:08:17 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] 1.6+ Million Message-ID: <20030203010817.GB991@localhost.localdomain> 1.6+ Million Simultaneous Connections on a single tuned FreeBSD system Terry Lambert made a post on freebsd-hackers stating that he was able to sustain over 1.6 million simultaneous connections on a single tuned FreeBSD 4.4 system (which has 4GB of RAM). Impressive feat for a non-Mainframe or non-Supercomputer, and definitely for FreeBSD! More on this topic: http://daily.daemonnews.org/view_story.php3?story_id=3491 -- Bob Bernstein No no no, my fish's name is Eric, Eric the fish. He's an halibut. From inkblot at movealong.org Sun Feb 2 18:07:43 2003 From: inkblot at movealong.org (The Archduke of Chicago and Subjugator of Michigan) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] 1.6+ Million In-Reply-To: <20030203010817.GB991@localhost.localdomain> References: <20030203010817.GB991@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20030203020743.GA4541@movealong.org> Just now Bob Bernstein made 15 LEDs in my apartment flash with this: > 1.6+ Million Simultaneous Connections on a single tuned FreeBSD system Golly! That's a LOT! -- --< ((\))< >----< inkblot@movealong.org >----< http://www.movealong.org/ >-- American currency is neither red, white, nor blue. pub 1024D/05A058E0 2002-03-07 Nate Riffe (06-Mar-2002) Key fingerprint = 0DAC F5CB D182 3165 D757 C466 CD42 12A8 05A0 58E0 From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Sun Feb 2 19:32:42 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] 1.6+ Million In-Reply-To: <20030203010817.GB991@localhost.localdomain> References: <20030203010817.GB991@localhost.localdomain> <20030203010817.GB991@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1044243162.3e3de2daa1f79@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting The Archduke of Chicago and Subjugator of Michigan : > Golly! That's a LOT! Aha! At last this moribund pathetic excuse for a list lurches into some semblance of activity! You know, I rely on this list for my entertainment needs, and I expect a good deal more chatter and what-not than has been of late evident! -- Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several USA streams from abroad. (Swift) From andy at strugglers.net Sun Feb 2 19:48:33 2003 From: andy at strugglers.net (Andy Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Hoax or Darwin Award? Message-ID: <20030203034833.GH17690@lug.org.uk> http://www.nydailynews.com/news/story/56497p-52905c.html: "He takes fatal OD as Internet pals watch Chatroom vultures egged him to pop more Rx pills" http://dovee.org/: "RIP ripper...." -- "All artists are willing to suffer for their art. So few are willing to learn to draw." -- The League Against Tedium From vipvop-cm at musesick.org Mon Feb 3 10:40:45 2003 From: vipvop-cm at musesick.org (MC MeatFlaps) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Hoax or Darwin Award? In-Reply-To: <20030203034833.GH17690@lug.org.uk> References: <20030203034833.GH17690@lug.org.uk> Message-ID: <20030203184045.GA8346@gregh.ilan.cogent.net> On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 03:48:33AM +0000, Andy Smith wrote: > http://www.nydailynews.com/news/story/56497p-52905c.html: > "He takes fatal OD as Internet pals watch > Chatroom vultures egged him to pop more Rx pills" Here's the actual chat log: http://www.dancesafe.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB20&Number=95742&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1 From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Mon Feb 3 15:58:20 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Hoax or Darwin Award? In-Reply-To: <20030203034833.GH17690@lug.org.uk> References: <20030203034833.GH17690@lug.org.uk> <20030203034833.GH17690@lug.org.uk> Message-ID: <1044316700.3e3f021ca72e1@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting MC MeatFlaps : > Here's the actual chat log: Thanks for setting the record straight on this; you've performed a significant service. Why, just the other day I was saying to myself, "Self, when o when will it be safe to go back to raving? " -- Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several USA streams from abroad. (Swift) From dmarti at zgp.org Mon Feb 3 16:49:39 2003 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business Message-ID: <20030204004939.GP23599@zgp.org> ----- Forwarded message from Microsoft Management Summit ----- ...Marketing email newsletter thing snipped... ------------------------------------ (c)2003 Microsoft Corporation. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Microsoft and Windows are either registered trademarks or trademarks of Microsoft Corporation in the United States and/or in other countries. The names of actual companies or products mentioned herein may be registered trademarks or trademarks of their respective owners. ------------------------------------ Want to unsubscribe? If you prefer not to receive future promotional e-mails of this type, please click below to unsubscribe: http://email.microsoft.com/m/s.asp?HB8109896750X1790328X158871XDMARTI%40ssc.com Please note that it can take up to eight weeks to update customer information in our database; therefore, you may receive e-mail from us within that time period. For your information this email was sent to: DMARTI@ssc.com ----- End forwarded message ----- Eight weeks. That's right, folks. -- Don Marti Even if we don't get DMCA reform, loudly http://zgp.org/~dmarti demanding DMCA reform is going to get the dmarti@zgp.org injustice of the DMCA in front of the next KG6INA jury. Make noise. It counts. From dmarti at zgp.org Mon Feb 3 16:54:31 2003 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Saddamix Message-ID: <20030204005431.GQ23599@zgp.org> How do _you_ select a free software distribution? http://linuxjournal.com/comments.php?sid=6601&tid=5826 -- Don Marti Even if we don't get DMCA reform, loudly http://zgp.org/~dmarti demanding DMCA reform is going to get the dmarti@zgp.org injustice of the DMCA in front of the next KG6INA jury. Make noise. It counts. From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Mon Feb 3 17:11:58 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030204004939.GP23599@zgp.org> References: <20030204004939.GP23599@zgp.org> Message-ID: <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting Don Marti : > Eight weeks. That's right, folks. Hey, they're really, really, busy, what with all those customers. I mean, hey, "We're Microsoft, we;'re really big, and just to show you how big we are, we're going to ignore you for weeks on end." It's reminiscent of Lily Tomlin's Ma Bell routine... -- Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several USA streams from abroad. (Swift) From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Mon Feb 3 17:15:28 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Saddamix In-Reply-To: <20030204005431.GQ23599@zgp.org> References: <20030204005431.GQ23599@zgp.org> Message-ID: <1044321328.3e3f1430839fd@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting Don Marti : > How do _you_ select a free software distribution? I want my distro to contribute to solving World Hunger, bringing about World Peace, curing AIDS, and giving every child an Elmo doll. -- Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several USA streams from abroad. (Swift) From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Mon Feb 3 17:21:11 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] John Nash Message-ID: <1044321671.3e3f1587f3266@webmail.spamcop.net> I don't know about the PBS schedule in your neighborhoods, but "American Experience" 9 pm EST WGBH Boston tonight is running their piece on math whiz John Nash, of 'A Beautiful Mind,' and Nobel, fame. -- Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several USA streams from abroad. (Swift) From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Mon Feb 3 18:13:07 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> References: <20030204004939.GP23599@zgp.org> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <20030204021307.GC16893@zork.net> begin Bob Bernstein quotation: > It's reminiscent of Lily Tomlin's Ma Bell routine... No sir, we don't care. We don't have to; we're the phone company. From dep at linuxandmain.com Mon Feb 3 18:30:03 2003 From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] those who have an interest in the space shuttle . . . Message-ID: <200302032130.03273.dep@linuxandmain.com> . . . might find these three old stories disconcertingly current: http://www.linuxandmain.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=318 -- dep http://www.linuxandmain.com -- outside the box, barely within the envelope, and no animated paperclip anywhere. From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Mon Feb 3 19:12:26 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> References: <20030204004939.GP23599@zgp.org> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco : > No sir, we don't care. We don't have to; we're the phone > company. Oops; there goes Peoria. (Or was it Altoona?) -- Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several USA streams from abroad. (Swift) From nick at zork.net Mon Feb 3 20:43:51 2003 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification] Message-ID: <20030204044351.GD16893@zork.net> wooo woo. cable SPEEEED ----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net ----- wcshafer@cablespeed.com has been successfully subscribed to CrackMonkey. ----- End forwarded message ----- From tomduffy at dslextreme.com Tue Feb 4 08:05:41 2003 From: tomduffy at dslextreme.com (Tom Duffy) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> References: <20030204004939.GP23599@zgp.org> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> On Mon, 2003-02-03 at 19:12, Bob Bernstein wrote: > References: <20030204004939.GP23599@zgp.org> > <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> > <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> > In-Reply-To: <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> > User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 4.0-cvs Get a new mailer. One that works. -- "[ SUV drivers are ] insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors and communities." -- Keith Bradsher reporting on SUV automakers' own market research From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Tue Feb 4 13:15:35 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> References: <20030204004939.GP23599@zgp.org> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> Message-ID: <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 08:05:41AM -0800, Tom Duffy wrote: > > References: <20030204004939.GP23599@zgp.org> > > <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> > > <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> > > In-Reply-To: <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> > > User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 4.0-cvs > > Get a new mailer. One that works. I know you've had some rough treatment (dare I say "rough trade"?) directed at you lately here on this list Tom. You sound upset about something. Want to share? We're here to help, you know; really we are! What a maroon. -- Bob Bernstein No no no, my fish's name is Eric, Eric the fish. He's an halibut. From nick at zork.net Tue Feb 4 14:59:07 2003 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] dot-com, round two! Message-ID: <20030204225907.GG16893@zork.net> http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/business/5100882.htm Woohoo! Let's all get lofts again! From nick at zork.net Tue Feb 4 16:12:12 2003 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] LISPophilia as class indicator Message-ID: <20030205001212.GJ16893@zork.net> (scroll down) http://www.troutworks.com/Joycelog/joycelog.php?joycedate=20030119 > So why do the Lisp-heads bother in situations where they know there > is no chance of success? I surmise that Lisp has become a little bit > of a class marker in the programming world. Being a Lispophile seems > to signify that one has taken an advanced degree in computer science > -- which, as we all know, has nothing at all to do with the > commercial production of software -- rather than one of the more > production-oriented degrees doled out by some state schools. Given > the relatively small percentage of software engineers even in > Silicon Valley who can point to a top-tier computer science degree, > the "let's do it in Lisp!" suggestion seems to separate the men from > the C++ users, and possibly also hint that the CS types have better > high-level design skills. Of course, those who programmed in C++ in > school also have ways of fighting back, which include ganging up and > denying jobs to those who are deemed insuffiently > "performance-oriented" or "systemsy" -- often a thinly veiled code > for former AI types. (None of this applies to research institutions, > of course.) From adam at flounder.net Tue Feb 4 17:07:23 2003 From: adam at flounder.net (Adam McKenna) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] In case anyone wants to listen... Message-ID: <20030205010723.GS4762@flounder.net> !dmwaters:*! Good evening everyone, this message is to inform you that Freenode radio is on the air now with oj Barbicane and company. Join them in #wopn for info and stream url's. Woo hoo! freenode radio! --Adam From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Tue Feb 4 17:49:20 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] In case anyone wants to listen... In-Reply-To: <20030205010723.GS4762@flounder.net> References: <20030205010723.GS4762@flounder.net> Message-ID: <20030205014920.GA3993@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 05:07:23PM -0800, Adam McKenna wrote: > Woo hoo! freenode radio! I've just been spammed, right? -- Bob Bernstein No no no, my fish's name is Eric, Eric the fish. He's an halibut. From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Tue Feb 4 17:56:35 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] In case anyone wants to listen... In-Reply-To: <20030205010723.GS4762@flounder.net> References: <20030205010723.GS4762@flounder.net> Message-ID: <20030205015635.GN16893@zork.net> begin Adam McKenna quotation: > Woo hoo! freenode radio! We actually joined #wopn once when they were reading out the nicks of everyone in the channel. They kicked us for having nicks like where_do_all_the_opn_donations_go and why_feed_rob_levin. From nick at zork.net Tue Feb 4 18:21:04 2003 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification] Message-ID: <20030205022104.GO16893@zork.net> Whatever. ----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net ----- dsturnbull@optushome.com.au has been removed from CrackMonkey. ----- End forwarded message ----- From sam at dasbistro.com Tue Feb 4 20:27:58 2003 From: sam at dasbistro.com (Sam Phillips) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Saddamix In-Reply-To: <1044321328.3e3f1430839fd@webmail.spamcop.net> References: <20030204005431.GQ23599@zgp.org> <1044321328.3e3f1430839fd@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <20030205042757.GB20225@dasbistro.com> On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 08:15:28PM -0500, Bob Bernstein wrote: > Quoting Don Marti : > > > How do _you_ select a free software distribution? > > I want my distro to contribute to solving World Hunger, bringing about > World Peace, curing AIDS, and giving every child an Elmo doll. > It should also be able to produce hydrogen powered cars. -- Sam Phillips http://www.dasbistro.com/~sam Das Bistro Heavy Industries Histogram Valley, Nevada From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Tue Feb 4 21:04:31 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:57 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Saddamix In-Reply-To: <1044321328.3e3f1430839fd@webmail.spamcop.net> References: <20030204005431.GQ23599@zgp.org> <1044321328.3e3f1430839fd@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044321328.3e3f1430839fd@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <1044421471.3e409b5fa872c@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting Sam Phillips : > It should also be able to produce hydrogen powered cars. Hey, he had to give the damn tree-huggers something to hang their pointy little hats on. -- Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several USA streams from abroad. (Swift) From nick at zork.net Tue Feb 4 21:22:39 2003 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification] Message-ID: <20030205052239.GA16179@zork.net> Oh boy, a spammer! ----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net ----- alec+keyword+crackmonkey.35f952@setfilepointer.com has been successfully subscribed to CrackMonkey. ----- End forwarded message ----- From tomduffy at dslextreme.com Wed Feb 5 09:08:49 2003 From: tomduffy at dslextreme.com (Tom Duffy) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> References: <20030204004939.GP23599@zgp.org> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> On Tue, 2003-02-04 at 13:15, Bob Bernstein wrote: > User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Thanks for heeding my advice. -- "[ SUV drivers are ] insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors and communities." -- Keith Bradsher reporting on SUV automakers' own market research From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Wed Feb 5 09:32:38 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch>; from tomduffy@dslextreme.com on Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 12:08:49 -0500 References: <20030204004939.GP23599@zgp.org> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> Message-ID: <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> SUV's are good On 2003.02.05 12:08 Tom Duffy wrote: > On Tue, 2003-02-04 at 13:15, Bob Bernstein wrote: > > User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i > > Thanks for heeding my advice. > > -- > "[ SUV drivers are ] insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous > about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often > lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be > self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors > and communities." > -- Keith Bradsher reporting on SUV automakers' own market research > > > _______________________________________________ > CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks > http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey > -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Wed Feb 5 09:50:02 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> References: <20030204004939.GP23599@zgp.org> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1044467402.3e414ecae87a0@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting Tom Duffy : > Thanks for heeding my advice. At one point in time, paying attention to user agent headers was considered _very_ crackmonkey; see the archives. AT THIS JUNCTURE, however, it has been found to be simply tedious, like your posts. But again, I get a whiff from you of acute angst Tom. Wanna share? Tell us what you really think! You do think, don't you? Remember, we're here to help. -- Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several USA streams from abroad. (Swift) From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Wed Feb 5 09:52:34 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch>; from tomduffy@dslextreme.com on Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 12:08:49 -0500 References: <20030204004939.GP23599@zgp.org> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch>; from tomduffy@dslextreme.com on Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 12:08:49 -0500 Message-ID: <1044467554.3e414f623277b@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting Ruben I Safir : > SUV's are good Of course they are. Not only that, they are kewl. Duffy hasn't figured out kewl yet. -- Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several USA streams from abroad. (Swift) From tomduffy at dslextreme.com Wed Feb 5 10:13:17 2003 From: tomduffy at dslextreme.com (Tom Duffy) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <1044467402.3e414ecae87a0@webmail.spamcop.net> References: <20030204004939.GP23599@zgp.org> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044467402.3e414ecae87a0@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch> On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 09:50, Bob Bernstein wrote: > References: <20030204004939.GP23599@zgp.org> > <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> > <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> > <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> > <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> > <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> > <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> > In-Reply-To: <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> Let me make this perfectly clear to you since you seem to be too dense to get it: YOUR (so called) MUA IS B0RKEN!!!! It fucks up threading. Notice how it does not set the In-Reply-To correctly. And it repeats the References twice. If I were Nick, I would add it to the banned list. Plus, if that stopped you from posting, we would be that much better off. P.S. When you drive an SUV, the terrorists have already won. -- "[ SUV drivers are ] insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors and communities." -- Keith Bradsher reporting on SUV automakers' own market research From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Wed Feb 5 10:22:17 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch>; from tomduffy@dslextreme.com on Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 13:13:17 -0500 References: <20030204004939.GP23599@zgp.org> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044467402.3e414ecae87a0@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch> Message-ID: <20030205132217.C2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> SUV's are saving America and is the best damn thing since the Station Wagon! Nuke Iraq before Iraq Nukes us. The road to Berlin is through Bagdag! SUV's don't support terrorists: Islam Supports terrorists... Gee that's hard to understand... Ruben On 2003.02.05 13:13 Tom Duffy wrote: > On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 09:50, Bob Bernstein wrote: > > References: <20030204004939.GP23599@zgp.org> > > <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> > > <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> > > <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> > > <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> > > <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> > > <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> > > In-Reply-To: <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> > > Let me make this perfectly clear to you since you seem to be too dense > to get it: YOUR (so called) MUA IS B0RKEN!!!! > > It fucks up threading. Notice how it does not set the In-Reply-To > correctly. And it repeats the References twice. If I were Nick, I > would add it to the banned list. Plus, if that stopped you from > posting, we would be that much better off. > > P.S. When you drive an SUV, the terrorists have already won. > > -- > "[ SUV drivers are ] insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous > about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often > lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be > self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors > and communities." > -- Keith Bradsher reporting on SUV automakers' own market research > > > _______________________________________________ > CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks > http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey > -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From tomduffy at dslextreme.com Wed Feb 5 10:32:37 2003 From: tomduffy at dslextreme.com (Tom Duffy) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030204004939.GP23599@zgp.org> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 09:32, Ruben I Safir wrote: > To: Tom Duffy > Cc: crackmonkey@crackmonkey.org Do I have to kick your ass as well? -- "[ SUV drivers are ] insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors and communities." -- Keith Bradsher reporting on SUV automakers' own market research From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Wed Feb 5 10:34:51 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch>; from tomduffy@dslextreme.com on Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 13:32:37 -0500 References: <20030204004939.GP23599@zgp.org> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> Message-ID: <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Should I run over your French Jumpo-twigo car with my Durango? Ruben On 2003.02.05 13:32 Tom Duffy wrote: > On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 09:32, Ruben I Safir wrote: > > To: Tom Duffy > > Cc: crackmonkey@crackmonkey.org > > Do I have to kick your ass as well? > > -- > "[ SUV drivers are ] insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous > about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often > lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be > self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors > and communities." > -- Keith Bradsher reporting on SUV automakers' own market research > > > _______________________________________________ > CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks > http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey > -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From jordanb at hafd.org Wed Feb 5 10:37:49 2003 From: jordanb at hafd.org (Jordan Bettis) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205132217.C2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030204004939.GP23599@zgp.org> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044467402.3e414ecae87a0@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch> <20030205132217.C2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <63984.163.191.24.14.1044470269.squirrel@trillian.hafd.org> Ruben I Safir said: > SUV's don't support terrorists: Islam Supports terrorists... I nominate this post for the "most obvious troll ever" award. -- Jordan Bettis You know where it ends usually depends on where you start. -- Everlast From montaigne at att.net Wed Feb 5 10:44:14 2003 From: montaigne at att.net (Michel de Montaigne) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch> References: <20030204004939.GP23599@zgp.org> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044467402.3e414ecae87a0@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch> Message-ID: <20030205184414.GA5317@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 10:13:17AM -0800, Tom Duffy wrote: > It fucks up threading. I don't have any problem with how his messages thread. It doesn't really "break" anything except your anal-retentive grip on your miserable existence. > P.S. When you drive an SUV, the terrorists have already won. Now it's clear you're a moron. I mean, I knew it when I saw "Ximian Evolution," but now I know it IN MY HEART. Evolution. ha ha. -- montaigne From montaigne at att.net Wed Feb 5 10:45:23 2003 From: montaigne at att.net (Michel de Montaigne) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <63984.163.191.24.14.1044470269.squirrel@trillian.hafd.org> References: <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044467402.3e414ecae87a0@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch> <20030205132217.C2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <63984.163.191.24.14.1044470269.squirrel@trillian.hafd.org> Message-ID: <20030205184523.GB5317@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 12:37:49PM -0600, Jordan Bettis wrote: > I nominate this post for the "most obvious troll ever" award. How can it be a troll? It is a simple statement of several facts. -- montaigne From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu Wed Feb 5 10:55:07 2003 From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian Danger Hicks) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205132217.C2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030204004939.GP23599@zgp.org> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044467402.3e414ecae87a0@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch> <20030205132217.C2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030205185507.GI17075@8ball.wox.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 commence Ruben I Safir quotation: > SUV's don't support terrorists: Islam Supports terrorists... You're confusing Islam with the U.S. Government and the diamond trade again. Also, learn to trim quotes. Especially when you're not referencing any of them. - -- Brian Hicks -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+QV4KjLHcIq3dHxYRAgQVAKCCfsO0tVURcSHLgH590hFO4I5v7gCfdvRv DSS/MFuLwlEN0OKYqFLrkSU= =Zehd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From squinky at dasbistro.com Wed Feb 5 11:06:15 2003 From: squinky at dasbistro.com (Not Erik) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Saddamix In-Reply-To: <1044421471.3e409b5fa872c@webmail.spamcop.net> References: <20030204005431.GQ23599@zgp.org> <1044321328.3e3f1430839fd@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044321328.3e3f1430839fd@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044421471.3e409b5fa872c@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <20030205190615.GD26183@dasbistro.com> On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 12:04:31AM -0500, Bob Bernstein wrote: > Hey, he had to give the damn tree-huggers something to hang their pointy > little hats on. How about a hat rack... made of TREES? MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA... -- not erik - squinky@dasbistro.com - http://www.dasbistro.com/~erik/ From squinky at dasbistro.com Wed Feb 5 11:22:13 2003 From: squinky at dasbistro.com (Not Erik) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030204004939.GP23599@zgp.org> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 01:34:51PM -0500, Ruben I Safir wrote: > Should I run over your French Jumpo-twigo car with my Durango? I remember the first TV commercial for the Durango. They had the Dodge spokesperson guy, previously known as the head vampire from the Lost Boys (best Corey Haim / Corey Feldman movie, yes, ever), who is the manifestation of every concept of a corporate dweeb. He started with a voiceover, the details of which I do not remember, presumably that the new vehicle has tires, a windshield, and turn signals, peppered with the occasional added bonus of four wheel drive and really high seats. At the end of the ad, he's standing next to the vehicle wearing a flannel shirt instead of his standard suit and tie and excitedly proclaims "OOO! I feel so RUGGED!" For me, that pretty much nailed who the target market for these things is. Corporate weenies who want to feel like big tough men. Well go on with your Durango, you big tough man, you. I hope you feel rugged. -- not erik - squinky@dasbistro.com - http://www.dasbistro.com/~erik/ From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Wed Feb 5 11:42:34 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Saddamix In-Reply-To: <20030205190615.GD26183@dasbistro.com> References: <20030204005431.GQ23599@zgp.org> <1044321328.3e3f1430839fd@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044321328.3e3f1430839fd@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044421471.3e409b5fa872c@webmail.spamcop.net> <20030205190615.GD26183@dasbistro.com> Message-ID: <20030205194234.GA5397@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 11:06:15AM -0800, Not Erik wrote: > How about a hat rack... made of TREES? MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA... I like it; I like it! My kind of humor. -- Bob Bernstein No no no, my fish's name is Eric, Eric the fish. He's an halibut. From dmarti at zgp.org Wed Feb 5 11:59:39 2003 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> References: <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> Message-ID: <20030205195939.GM21271@zgp.org> begin Not Erik quotation of Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 11:22:13AM -0800: > For me, that pretty much nailed who the target market for these things > is. Corporate weenies who want to feel like big tough men. Well go > on with your Durango, you big tough man, you. I hope you feel rugged. Why not just start calling them PCVs? (Penile Compensation Vehicles) Doesn't take any longer to say. -- Don Marti Even if we don't get DMCA reform, loudly http://zgp.org/~dmarti demanding DMCA reform is going to get the dmarti@zgp.org injustice of the DMCA in front of the next KG6INA jury. Make noise. It counts. From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Wed Feb 5 12:32:19 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> References: <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> Message-ID: <1044477139.3e4174d321da0@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting Don Marti : > Why not just start calling them PCVs? (Penile Compensation Vehicles) > Doesn't take any longer to say. Let us pause to note that many women prefer these vehicles. Do you write them all off as acting out what the analysts used to call "male protest?" -- Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several USA streams from abroad. (Swift) From squinky at dasbistro.com Wed Feb 5 12:35:13 2003 From: squinky at dasbistro.com (Not Erik) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205195939.GM21271@zgp.org> References: <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> <20030205195939.GM21271@zgp.org> Message-ID: <20030205203513.GA9686@dasbistro.com> On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 11:59:39AM -0800, Don Marti wrote: > Why not just start calling them PCVs? (Penile Compensation Vehicles) > Doesn't take any longer to say. ha ha rims -- not erik - squinky@dasbistro.com - http://www.dasbistro.com/~erik/ From squinky at dasbistro.com Wed Feb 5 12:36:39 2003 From: squinky at dasbistro.com (Not Erik) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <1044477139.3e4174d321da0@webmail.spamcop.net> References: <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> <1044477139.3e4174d321da0@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <20030205203639.GB9686@dasbistro.com> On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 03:32:19PM -0500, Bob Bernstein wrote: > Let us pause to note that many women prefer these vehicles. Do you write > them all off as acting out what the analysts used to call "male protest?" Chicks driving big honking vehicles are sexy. Men driving big honking vehicles are pathetic. It's kind of the same thing with strap-ons. Wait... did I just say that? -- not erik - squinky@dasbistro.com - http://www.dasbistro.com/~erik/ From squinky at dasbistro.com Wed Feb 5 12:38:34 2003 From: squinky at dasbistro.com (Not Erik) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205203513.GA9686@dasbistro.com> References: <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> <20030205195939.GM21271@zgp.org> <20030205203513.GA9686@dasbistro.com> Message-ID: <20030205203834.GC9686@dasbistro.com> > Cc: Don Marti I'll just go to my happy place while you guys go get all your anger about that out of your system. -- not erik - squinky@dasbistro.com - http://www.dasbistro.com/~erik/ From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Wed Feb 5 12:49:51 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205203639.GB9686@dasbistro.com> References: <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> <1044477139.3e4174d321da0@webmail.spamcop.net> <20030205203639.GB9686@dasbistro.com> Message-ID: <20030205204950.GB5397@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 12:36:39PM -0800, Not Erik wrote: > Chicks driving big honking vehicles are sexy. Agreed. Except when they're obviously about seventeen years old, are headed straight at you doing fifty or better, and you notice they're TALKING ON THEIR FUCKING CELL-PHONE. > Men driving big honking vehicles are pathetic. Sometimes. > It's kind of the same thing with strap-ons. Men with strap-ons? Huh? Hey, rock on dude. > Wait... did I just say that? Thas' ok today. Rims? HUH? -- Bob Bernstein From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Wed Feb 5 12:55:57 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205185507.GI17075@8ball.wox.org>; from hick0142@tc.umn.edu on Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 13:55:07 -0500 References: <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044467402.3e414ecae87a0@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch> <20030205132217.C2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205185507.GI17075@8ball.wox.org> Message-ID: <20030205155557.A8321@www2.mrbrklyn.com> No it's the Jews. The Suadi's were very upfront on this with Barbra Walters. The Royal family said clearly that it's obvious that whereever there are Jews, there are wars and trouble, so something must be troubling about them as a people. All those Jews driving Durangos and running the freaken media and American government!! Nuke Ari Fleisher and ALL the troubles go away. Ruben On 2003.02.05 13:55 Brian Danger Hicks wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > commence Ruben I Safir quotation: > > SUV's don't support terrorists: Islam Supports terrorists... > > You're confusing Islam with the U.S. Government and the diamond trade > again. > > Also, learn to trim quotes. Especially when you're not referencing any > of them. > > - -- > Brian Hicks > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQE+QV4KjLHcIq3dHxYRAgQVAKCCfsO0tVURcSHLgH590hFO4I5v7gCfdvRv > DSS/MFuLwlEN0OKYqFLrkSU= > =Zehd > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks > http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey > -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Wed Feb 5 12:58:09 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com>; from squinky@dasbistro.com on Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 14:22:13 -0500 References: <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> Message-ID: <20030205155809.C8321@www2.mrbrklyn.com> > For me, that pretty much nailed who the target market for these things > is. Corporate weenies who want to feel like big tough men. Gee I thought it was mostly families with children unable to buy a stationwagon! I'm just soooo stupid. Hey - what I drive is even bigger than a Durango, it's the BMT! > Well go > on with your Durango, you big tough man, you. I hope you feel rugged. > > -- > not erik - squinky@dasbistro.com - http://www.dasbistro.com/~erik/ > > _______________________________________________ > CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks > http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey > -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From holo at www.beadpainter.org Wed Feb 5 13:04:04 2003 From: holo at www.beadpainter.org (Trouble) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> References: <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> Message-ID: <20030205210426.GA8090@www.beadpainter.org> * Not Erik Mumbled the Following: > On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 01:34:51PM -0500, Ruben I Safir wrote: > > Should I run over your French Jumpo-twigo car with my Durango? > ---- > For me, that pretty much nailed who the target market for these things > is. Corporate weenies who want to feel like big tough men. Well go > on with your Durango, you big tough man, you. I hope you feel rugged. > Why hasn't Dodge used the obvious "Clockwork Orange" tie-in with their advertising? If you drive a Durango, you deserve it when a gang of Droogs steals your car on one of their raping and pillaging sprees... -- rh From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Wed Feb 5 13:09:37 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205185507.GI17075@8ball.wox.org>; from hick0142@tc.umn.edu on Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 13:55:07 -0500 References: <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044467402.3e414ecae87a0@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch> <20030205132217.C2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205185507.GI17075@8ball.wox.org> <20030205185507.GI17075@8ball.wox.org>; from hick0142@tc.umn.edu on Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 13:55:07 -0500 Message-ID: <1044479377.3e417d91588bb@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting Ruben I Safir : > No it's the Jews. Of course. And hey, didn't some pinhead say something about the diamond trade earlier today? I forget who. > The Suadi's were very upfront on this with Barbra Walters. The Saudis are nothing if not up front with Baba Wawa. I think she's hot for those big Arab studs, and they of course lust after Baba's moist and no doubt pouty don't cha know poontang. > The Royal family said clearly that it's obvious that whereever > there are Jews, there are wars and trouble, so something must be > troubling about them as a people. What could be clearer? > All those Jews driving Durangos and running the freaken media and > American government!! Thanks for clearing this all up today. -- Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several USA streams from abroad. (Swift) From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Wed Feb 5 13:21:59 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205203834.GC9686@dasbistro.com> References: <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> <20030205195939.GM21271@zgp.org> <20030205203513.GA9686@dasbistro.com> <20030205203834.GC9686@dasbistro.com> Message-ID: <20030205212159.GD16179@zork.net> begin Not Erik quotation: > > Cc: Don Marti > > I'll just go to my happy place while you guys go get all your anger > about that out of your system. Actually, Don sets his mail-followup-to header so that a proper list reply includes his direct address. From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Wed Feb 5 13:25:12 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205155809.C8321@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> <20030205155809.C8321@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030205212512.GE16179@zork.net> begin Ruben I Safir quotation: > Hey - what I drive is even bigger than a Durango, it's the BMT! Only you don't actually have to drive it. Modern technology at its finest! Of course, calling it the BMT is pure name-dropping at this point. From squinky at dasbistro.com Wed Feb 5 13:29:52 2003 From: squinky at dasbistro.com (Not Erik) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205212159.GD16179@zork.net> References: <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> <20030205195939.GM21271@zgp.org> <20030205203513.GA9686@dasbistro.com> <20030205203834.GC9686@dasbistro.com> <20030205212159.GD16179@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030205212952.GB14299@dasbistro.com> On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 01:21:59PM -0800, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote: > Actually, Don sets his mail-followup-to header so that a > proper list reply includes his direct address. Damnit! And I'd already begun the self-punishment ritual! -- not erik - squinky@dasbistro.com - http://www.dasbistro.com/~erik/ From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Wed Feb 5 13:28:42 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <1044479377.3e417d91588bb@webmail.spamcop.net>; from rs@bernstein.providence.ri.us on Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 16:09:37 -0500 References: <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044467402.3e414ecae87a0@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch> <20030205132217.C2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205185507.GI17075@8ball.wox.org> <20030205185507.GI17075@8ball.wox.org>; <20030205185507.GI17075@8ball.wox.org> <1044479377.3e417d91588bb@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <20030205162842.A8720@www2.mrbrklyn.com> It's bad enough that all though Jews escpaed the WTC attack and turned NYC in Heimie town....but if Nelson Mandella said that the USA only wants to attack Iraq because the UN Secretariat General is a Blackie, then we KNOW it must be the Jews! http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030130/wl_nm/iraq_mandela_dc On 2003.02.05 16:09 Bob Bernstein wrote: > Quoting Ruben I Safir : > > > No it's the Jews. > > Of course. And hey, didn't some pinhead say something about the diamond > trade earlier today? I forget who. > > > The Suadi's were very upfront on this with Barbra Walters. > > The Saudis are nothing if not up front with Baba Wawa. I think she's hot > for those big Arab studs, and they of course lust after Baba's moist and > no doubt pouty don't cha know poontang. > > > The Royal family said clearly that it's obvious that whereever > > there are Jews, there are wars and trouble, so something must be > > troubling about them as a people. > > What could be clearer? > > > All those Jews driving Durangos and running the freaken media and > > American government!! > > Thanks for clearing this all up today. > > > -- > Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a > at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, > Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several > USA streams from abroad. (Swift) > > _______________________________________________ > CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks > http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey > -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Wed Feb 5 13:30:16 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205212512.GE16179@zork.net>; from monkeymaster@crackmonkey.org on Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 16:25:12 -0500 References: <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> <20030205155809.C8321@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205212512.GE16179@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030205163016.A8877@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Name Caling is claiming I use the IRT I wouldn NEVER claim that On 2003.02.05 16:25 Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote: > begin Ruben I Safir quotation: > > Hey - what I drive is even bigger than a Durango, it's the BMT! > > Only you don't actually have to drive it. Modern technology > at its finest! > > Of course, calling it the BMT is pure name-dropping at this > point. > > _______________________________________________ > CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks > http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey > -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From unknown at panax.com Wed Feb 5 13:33:28 2003 From: unknown at panax.com (Patrick McFarland) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205210426.GA8090@www.beadpainter.org> References: <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> <20030205210426.GA8090@www.beadpainter.org> Message-ID: <20030205213328.GB688@panax.com> On 05-Feb-2003, Trouble wrote: > Why hasn't Dodge used the obvious "Clockwork Orange" tie-in with > their advertising? If you drive a Durango, you deserve it when a gang of > Droogs steals your car on one of their raping and pillaging sprees... Thats a _good_ thing? -- Patrick "Diablo-D3" McFarland || unknown@panax.com "Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989 From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Wed Feb 5 13:35:37 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205184523.GB5317@localhost.localdomain> References: <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044467402.3e414ecae87a0@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch> <20030205132217.C2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <63984.163.191.24.14.1044470269.squirrel@trillian.hafd.org> <20030205184523.GB5317@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20030205213536.GF16179@zork.net> begin Michel de Montaigne quotation: > How can it be a troll? It is a simple statement of several facts. FACTS are an ABSURD LIBERAL MYTH! From squinky at dasbistro.com Wed Feb 5 13:36:26 2003 From: squinky at dasbistro.com (Not Erik) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205213328.GB688@panax.com> References: <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> <20030205210426.GA8090@www.beadpainter.org> <20030205213328.GB688@panax.com> Message-ID: <20030205213626.GC14299@dasbistro.com> On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 04:33:28PM -0500, Patrick McFarland wrote: > On 05-Feb-2003, Trouble wrote: > > Why hasn't Dodge used the obvious "Clockwork Orange" tie-in with > > their advertising? If you drive a Durango, you deserve it when a gang of > > Droogs steals your car on one of their raping and pillaging sprees... > > Thats a _good_ thing? That's kind of subjective. -- not erik - squinky@dasbistro.com - http://www.dasbistro.com/~erik/ From tomduffy at dslextreme.com Wed Feb 5 13:40:57 2003 From: tomduffy at dslextreme.com (Tom Duffy) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205155809.C8321@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> <20030205155809.C8321@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <1044481256.30664.34.camel@biznatch> On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 12:58, Ruben I Safir wrote: > Hey - what I drive is even bigger than a Durango, it's the BMT! They are letting you drive the trains? The MTA must be desperate, in the wake of 9/11. -- "[ SUV drivers are ] insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors and communities." -- Keith Bradsher reporting on SUV automakers' own market research From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Wed Feb 5 13:46:37 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205163016.A8877@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> <20030205155809.C8321@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205212512.GE16179@zork.net> <20030205163016.A8877@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030205214637.GG16179@zork.net> begin Ruben I Safir quotation: > Name Caling is claiming I use the IRT > > I wouldn NEVER claim that You don't live on any ex-IRT lines, though. Duh. From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Wed Feb 5 13:44:42 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <1044481256.30664.34.camel@biznatch>; from tomduffy@dslextreme.com on Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 16:40:57 -0500 References: <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> <20030205155809.C8321@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044481256.30664.34.camel@biznatch> Message-ID: <20030205164442.A9153@www2.mrbrklyn.com> And Before 9/11! On 2003.02.05 16:40 Tom Duffy wrote: > On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 12:58, Ruben I Safir wrote: > > Hey - what I drive is even bigger than a Durango, it's the BMT! > > They are letting you drive the trains? The MTA must be desperate, in > the wake of 9/11. > > -- > "[ SUV drivers are ] insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous > about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often > lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be > self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors > and communities." > -- Keith Bradsher reporting on SUV automakers' own market research > > > _______________________________________________ > CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks > http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey > -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From adam at flounder.net Wed Feb 5 13:36:57 2003 From: adam at flounder.net (Adam McKenna) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205155809.C8321@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <1044321118.3e3f135eb03a5@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> <20030205155809.C8321@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030205213657.GF2314@flounder.net> On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 03:58:09PM -0500, Ruben I Safir wrote: > Hey - what I drive is even bigger than a Durango, it's the BMT! You drive a sandwich? Somehow I'm not impressed. --Adam From squinky at dasbistro.com Wed Feb 5 13:50:13 2003 From: squinky at dasbistro.com (Not Erik) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <1044481256.30664.34.camel@biznatch> References: <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> <20030205155809.C8321@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044481256.30664.34.camel@biznatch> Message-ID: <20030205215013.GB23513@dasbistro.com> On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 01:40:57PM -0800, Tom Duffy wrote: > On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 12:58, Ruben I Safir wrote: > > Hey - what I drive is even bigger than a Durango, it's the BMT! > > They are letting you drive the trains? The MTA must be desperate, in > the wake of 9/11. Trains? Oh! That makes a lot more sense. I thought he was talking about a sandwich. -- not erik - squinky@dasbistro.com - http://www.dasbistro.com/~erik/ From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Wed Feb 5 13:55:44 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (CEO of Brooklyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205215013.GB23513@dasbistro.com>; from squinky@dasbistro.com on Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 16:50:13 -0500 References: <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> <20030205155809.C8321@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044481256.30664.34.camel@biznatch> <20030205215013.GB23513@dasbistro.com> Message-ID: <20030205165544.C9153@www2.mrbrklyn.com> WTF Which part of CEO of Brooklyn do you NOT understand.... On 2003.02.05 16:50 Not Erik wrote: > On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 01:40:57PM -0800, Tom Duffy wrote: > > On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 12:58, Ruben I Safir wrote: > > > Hey - what I drive is even bigger than a Durango, it's the BMT! > > > > They are letting you drive the trains? The MTA must be desperate, in > > the wake of 9/11. > > Trains? Oh! That makes a lot more sense. I thought he was talking > about a sandwich. > > -- > not erik - squinky@dasbistro.com - http://www.dasbistro.com/~erik/ > > _______________________________________________ > CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks > http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey > -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From squinky at dasbistro.com Wed Feb 5 14:03:40 2003 From: squinky at dasbistro.com (Not Erik) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205165544.C9153@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> <20030205155809.C8321@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044481256.30664.34.camel@biznatch> <20030205215013.GB23513@dasbistro.com> <20030205165544.C9153@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030205220340.GC23513@dasbistro.com> On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 04:55:44PM -0500, CEO of Brooklyn wrote: > WTF > > Which part of CEO of Brooklyn do you NOT understand.... 1. Your original message didn't say anything about CEO of Brooklyn. 2. It was a joke. A less-than funny and poorly timed one, as someone else's nigh-identical response arrived two minutes before mine. 3. Your reply-before-quotation makes baby Jesus cry. -- not erik - squinky@dasbistro.com - http://www.dasbistro.com/~erik/ From unknown at panax.com Wed Feb 5 14:24:33 2003 From: unknown at panax.com (Patrick McFarland) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205165544.C9153@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> <20030205155809.C8321@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044481256.30664.34.camel@biznatch> <20030205215013.GB23513@dasbistro.com> <20030205165544.C9153@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030205222433.GA1306@panax.com> On 05-Feb-2003, CEO of Brooklyn wrote: > Which part of CEO of Brooklyn do you NOT understand.... The part which makes you think not replying _after_ the quotation in "kewl", "31337", or whatever people call annoying behavior now. -- Patrick "Diablo-D3" McFarland || unknown@panax.com "Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989 From nick at zork.net Wed Feb 5 14:46:01 2003 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Relativity in words of four letters or fewer Message-ID: <20030205224601.GL16179@zork.net> http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/txt/al.html From aelmore at interwoven.com Wed Feb 5 14:08:33 2003 From: aelmore at interwoven.com (Andrew Elmore) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205165544.C9153@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> <20030205155809.C8321@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044481256.30664.34.camel@biznatch> <20030205215013.GB23513@dasbistro.com> <20030205165544.C9153@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030205220833.GD3434@interwoven.com> On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 04:55:44PM -0500, CEO of Brooklyn wrote: > WTF > > Which part of CEO of Brooklyn do you NOT understand.... all capital letters From Radix42 at Cox.Net Wed Feb 5 16:37:33 2003 From: Radix42 at Cox.Net (David Mercer) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205165544.C9153@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> <20030205155809.C8321@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044481256.30664.34.camel@biznatch> <20030205215013.GB23513@dasbistro.com> <20030205165544.C9153@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: >WTF > >Which part of CEO of Brooklyn do you NOT understand.... > > >On 2003.02.05 16:50 Not Erik wrote: >> On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 01:40:57PM -0800, Tom Duffy wrote: >> > On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 12:58, Ruben I Safir wrote: > > > > Hey - what I drive is even bigger than a Durango, it's the BMT! What part of DON'T TOP POST do YOU not understand? Seriously, I'm very let down at everyone not jumping on this Rube for Top Posting, very un-Crackmonkey don't ya think? -- -- From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Wed Feb 5 16:37:42 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030205213536.GF16179@zork.net> References: <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044467402.3e414ecae87a0@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch> <20030205132217.C2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <63984.163.191.24.14.1044470269.squirrel@trillian.hafd.org> <20030205184523.GB5317@localhost.localdomain> <20030205213536.GF16179@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030206003741.GC5397@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 01:35:37PM -0800, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote: > FACTS are an ABSURD LIBERAL MYTH! Or, to paraphrase Nietzsche, "Facts are precisely what we don't have." However, to lapse into reality for just a moment, it is the liberal academic establishment that persists in this delusion, what with deconstructionism, structuralism, and all the assorted post-Foucaultian ideological underpinnings of relativism. Nietzsche of course would have vomited (he did a lot of that anyway) at the notion that "diversity is a value." -- Bob Bernstein From adam at flounder.net Wed Feb 5 16:29:24 2003 From: adam at flounder.net (Adam McKenna) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: References: <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> <20030205155809.C8321@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044481256.30664.34.camel@biznatch> <20030205215013.GB23513@dasbistro.com> <20030205165544.C9153@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030206002924.GM2314@flounder.net> YHBT. HTH. HAND. On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 05:37:33PM -0700, David Mercer wrote: > What part of DON'T TOP POST do YOU not understand? > > Seriously, I'm very let down at everyone not jumping on this Rube for > Top Posting, very un-Crackmonkey don't ya think? From ebourg at cs.mcgill.ca Wed Feb 5 18:33:56 2003 From: ebourg at cs.mcgill.ca (Erik Bourget) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] LISPophilia as class indicator In-Reply-To: <20030205001212.GJ16893@zork.net> References: <20030205001212.GJ16893@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030206023356.GC10349@mjollnir.odinnet> On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 04:12:12PM -0800, Nick Moffitt wrote: > > high-level design skills. Of course, those who programmed in C++ in > > school also have ways of fighting back, which include ganging up and > > denying jobs to those who are deemed insuffiently > > "performance-oriented" or "systemsy" -- often a thinly veiled code > > for former AI types. (None of this applies to research institutions, > > of course.) There are no 'former' AI types. -- erik bourget | "emacs outshines all other editing software in ebourg@cs.mcgill.ca | approximately the same way that the noonday sun ---------------------/ does the stars. It is not just bigger and brighter; it simply makes everything else vanish." - Neal Stephenson From squinky at dasbistro.com Wed Feb 5 18:51:45 2003 From: squinky at dasbistro.com (Not Erik) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] LISPophilia as class indicator In-Reply-To: <20030206023356.GC10349@mjollnir.odinnet> References: <20030205001212.GJ16893@zork.net> <20030206023356.GC10349@mjollnir.odinnet> Message-ID: <20030206025145.GF23513@dasbistro.com> On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 09:33:56PM -0500, Erik Bourget wrote: > There are no 'former' AI types. I offer: 1. AI types that had to get a real[1] job 2. Dead AI types HTH. [1] by 'real' I mean outside academia, which isn't to say that academics do not make a worthwhile contribution, just that they live in a world that is different in many respects from other kinds of jobs -- not erik - squinky@dasbistro.com - http://www.dasbistro.com/~erik/ From aaronl at vitelus.com Wed Feb 5 19:40:34 2003 From: aaronl at vitelus.com (Aaron Lehmann) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Relativity in words of four letters or fewer In-Reply-To: <20030205224601.GL16179@zork.net> References: <20030205224601.GL16179@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030206034034.GB32625@vitelus.com> On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 02:46:01PM -0800, Nick Moffitt wrote: > http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/txt/al.html I guess I should be leet like you and post other files that have been on Brian Raiter's site for years like http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/teensy.html and http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/txt/rsa.html. From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu Wed Feb 5 20:04:53 2003 From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian Danger Hicks) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030206003741.GC5397@localhost.localdomain> References: <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044467402.3e414ecae87a0@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch> <20030205132217.C2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <63984.163.191.24.14.1044470269.squirrel@trillian.hafd.org> <20030205184523.GB5317@localhost.localdomain> <20030205213536.GF16179@zork.net> <20030206003741.GC5397@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20030206040453.GJ17075@8ball.wox.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 commence Bob Bernstein quotation: > Or, to paraphrase Nietzsche, "Facts are precisely what we don't have." Nietzsche is peachy, but Sartre is smartre. - -- Brian Hicks -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+Qd7kjLHcIq3dHxYRAi8OAJ0ey1JvswqpHolfuqNPcR0e6fiHaQCggWKD w+QlGZLRpekBBmjMufc2EmE= =BZ97 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Thu Feb 6 04:55:39 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] 1.6N! Message-ID: <20030206125539.GF5397@localhost.localdomain> Every few months by sheer dint of not having a life, I wade into the NetBSD toolchain and try my hand at building -current. Today I am proud to report success! This snapshot from yesterday's CVS features an SMP kernel (along with the usual suspects), and the spiffy new native threads: ftp://countrydivaworship.com/pub/NetBSD/i386/20020205-1.6N/ Next: rebuild Gnome without crappy old thread lib! Time to stock up on Pepsi and Cheese Doodles! -- Bob Bernstein No no no, my fish's name is Eric, Eric the fish. He's an halibut. From dmarti at zgp.org Thu Feb 6 10:03:52 2003 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Spammer tricks -- useless? Message-ID: <20030206180351.GF12144@zgp.org> What spam filter did this guy think he could fool? ----- Forwarded message from Peter Lasader Phd2 <2PLasaderrn787@nycmail.com> ----- Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 09:14:47 -0900 From: "Peter Lasader Phd2" <2PLasaderrn787@nycmail.com> Subject: Order v_i a g r_a from home - no doctors! 6899ADBw1-495NRnK5474dgTm9-581-28 To: Reply-To: "Peter Lasader Phd2" <2PLasaderrn787@nycmail.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-Spambayes-Classification: spam; 1.00 X-Bogosity: Yes, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.568054, version=0.9.1.2 X-Spam-Status: Yes, hits=8.4 required=7.0 tests=SUBJ_HAS_SPACES,FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS,FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,PLING,GAPPY_TEXT,BASE64_ENC_TEXT,SUBJ_HAS_UNIQ_ID version=2.20 X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Level: ******** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.20 (devel $Id: SpamAssassin.pm,v 1.77 2002/04/06 19:28:30 hughescr Exp $) X-Spam-Prev-Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00E5_16A25C2B.E5862A38" SPAM: -------------------- Start SpamAssassin results ---------------------- SPAM: This mail is probably spam. The original message has been altered SPAM: so you can recognise or block similar unwanted mail in future. SPAM: See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. SPAM: SPAM: Content analysis details: (8.4 hits, 7 required) SPAM: Hit! (2.7 points) Subject contains lots of white space SPAM: Hit! (2.0 points) From: contains numbers mixed in with letters SPAM: Hit! (1.0 point) From: ends in numbers SPAM: Hit! (0.5 points) Subject has an exclamation mark SPAM: Hit! (-1.2 points) BODY: Contains 'G.a.p.p.y-T.e.x.t' SPAM: Hit! (1.4 points) Message text disguised using base-64 encoding SPAM: Hit! (2.0 points) Subject contains a unique ID number SPAM: SPAM: -------------------- End of SpamAssassin results --------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_00E5_16A25C2B.E5862A38 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGVyZSBpcyB5b3VyIGNoYW5jZSB0byBza2lwIHRoZSBlbWJhcnJhc3Npbmcs IHRpbWUtY29uc3VtaW5nIHRhc2sgb2YgDQpnb2luZyB0byBkLm9jdG9yJ3Mg YXBwb2ludG1lbnRzIHRvIHRyeSBhbmQgZ2V0IHRoZSBwLnJlc2NyaXB0aW9u IHlvdSB3YW50LiANCldlJ3JlIHJlYWR5IHRvIEZlZGV4IHlvdXIgb25saW5l ICAgdl9pIGEgZyByX2EgICBwLnJlc2NyaXB0aW9uIG9yZGVycyByaWdodCBu b3chISENCg0KTm8gcC5yZXNjcmlwdGlvbiBuZWNlc3NhcnkhISEgSnVzdCB2 aXNpdCB0aGUgbGluayBiZWxvdyBhbmQgaGF2ZSB5b3VyIA0Kdl9pIGEgZyBy X2Egb24gaXRzIHdheSB0byB5b3UgdG9kYXkhISEgIA0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy5U cm9waWNhbFBpbGxzLmNvbS9tYWluMi5waHA/cng9MTcyODMNCg0KDQowOTE3 d2pHUDEtMDQ5T3pxdTgyODRSb0pyMi04NjN1V3pCNDkxOGZIbDM4 ------=_NextPart_000_00E5_16A25C2B.E5862A38-- ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Don Marti Even if we don't get DMCA reform, loudly http://zgp.org/~dmarti demanding DMCA reform is going to get the dmarti@zgp.org injustice of the DMCA in front of the next KG6INA jury. Make noise. It counts. From tomduffy at dslextreme.com Thu Feb 6 10:33:21 2003 From: tomduffy at dslextreme.com (Tom Duffy) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Spammer tricks -- useless? In-Reply-To: <20030206180351.GF12144@zgp.org> References: <20030206180351.GF12144@zgp.org> Message-ID: <1044556400.20613.9.camel@biznatch> On Thu, 2003-02-06 at 10:03, Don Marti wrote: > Subject: Order v_i a g r_a from home - no doctors! > 6899ADBw1-495NRnK5474dgTm9-581-28 Thanks Don! I was wondering how to order my v_i a g r_a from home without a doctor. And since you forwarded me this useful email, now I know! -- "[ SUV drivers are ] insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors and communities." -- Keith Bradsher reporting on SUV automakers' own market research From jv at zork.net Thu Feb 6 10:35:05 2003 From: jv at zork.net (Juggler Vain) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: Subjective seduction (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] Relativity in words of four letters or fewer) In-Reply-To: <20030206034034.GB32625@vitelus.com> References: <20030205224601.GL16179@zork.net> <20030206034034.GB32625@vitelus.com> Message-ID: <20030206183505.GB1312@zork.net> begin Aaron Lehmann quotation: > On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 02:46:01PM -0800, Nick Moffitt wrote: > > http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/txt/al.html > I guess I should be leet like you and post other files that have been > on Brian Raiter's site for years like... I could be 1@m3 like AL, and employ an obscure characteristic of his post with sarcastic irony; but I am in that way not so lame, but rather after the fashion of addressing a reply to a post, sent to a list, *both* to the list *and* the author; and I'm chewing a piece of aluminum foil into a star, even as I type; and sure it's crazy tasting, but I'm so lame; I bet you think this... ... about Nick's learning suggestion... s'o.k... kinda' wordy, tho. -jv From montaigne at att.net Thu Feb 6 12:04:14 2003 From: montaigne at att.net (Michel de Montaigne) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030206040453.GJ17075@8ball.wox.org> References: <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044467402.3e414ecae87a0@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch> <20030205132217.C2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <63984.163.191.24.14.1044470269.squirrel@trillian.hafd.org> <20030205184523.GB5317@localhost.localdomain> <20030205213536.GF16179@zork.net> <20030206003741.GC5397@localhost.localdomain> <20030206040453.GJ17075@8ball.wox.org> Message-ID: <20030206200414.GC5317@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 10:04:53PM -0600, Brian Danger Hicks wrote: > Nietzsche is peachy, but Sartre is smartre. And with that ridiculously insipid comment you have successfully killed off that sub-thread. Happy? btw, Sartre was not fit to empty N.'s bedpan. -- montaigne From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu Thu Feb 6 13:14:21 2003 From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 06 Feb 2003 15:04:14 EST." <20030206200414.GC5317@localhost.localdomain> References: <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044467402.3e414ecae87a0@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch> <20030205132217.C2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <63984.163.191.24.14.1044470269.squirrel@trillian.hafd.org> <20030205184523.GB5317@localhost.localdomain> <20030205213536.GF16179@zork.net> <20030206003741.GC5397@localhost.localdomain> <20030206040453.GJ17075@8ball.wox.org> <20030206200414.GC5317@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200302062114.h16LELwj006749@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> On Thu, 06 Feb 2003 15:04:14 EST, Michel de Montaigne said: > On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 10:04:53PM -0600, Brian Danger Hicks wrote: > > > Nietzsche is peachy, but Sartre is smartre. > > And with that ridiculously insipid comment you have successfully killed off > that sub-thread. Happy? OK.. which one was the worse Nazi? From nick at zork.net Thu Feb 6 13:36:09 2003 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification] Message-ID: <20030206213609.GD7713@zork.net> ha ha STFU.ca ----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net ----- katherim@sfu.ca has been removed from CrackMonkey. ----- End forwarded message ----- From unknown at panax.com Thu Feb 6 13:37:24 2003 From: unknown at panax.com (Patrick McFarland) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <200302062114.h16LELwj006749@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> References: <1044467402.3e414ecae87a0@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch> <20030205132217.C2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <63984.163.191.24.14.1044470269.squirrel@trillian.hafd.org> <20030205184523.GB5317@localhost.localdomain> <20030205213536.GF16179@zork.net> <20030206003741.GC5397@localhost.localdomain> <20030206040453.GJ17075@8ball.wox.org> <20030206200414.GC5317@localhost.localdomain> <200302062114.h16LELwj006749@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: <20030206213724.GA502@panax.com> On 06-Feb-2003, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote: > OK.. which one was the worse Nazi? Hitler, I think. -- Patrick "Diablo-D3" McFarland || unknown@panax.com "Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989 From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu Thu Feb 6 13:42:09 2003 From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian Danger Hicks) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030206200414.GC5317@localhost.localdomain> References: <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044467402.3e414ecae87a0@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch> <20030205132217.C2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <63984.163.191.24.14.1044470269.squirrel@trillian.hafd.org> <20030205184523.GB5317@localhost.localdomain> <20030205213536.GF16179@zork.net> <20030206003741.GC5397@localhost.localdomain> <20030206040453.GJ17075@8ball.wox.org> <20030206200414.GC5317@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20030206214209.GK17075@8ball.wox.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 commence Michel de Montaigne quotation: > And with that ridiculously insipid comment you have successfully killed off > that sub-thread. Happy? Yes. > btw, Sartre was not fit to empty N.'s bedpan. I bet you're a big Ayn Rand fan, too. - -- Brian Hicks -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+QtavjLHcIq3dHxYRAhlbAJ0ZRk5/FkQb824wzbPaSF4DOWhI8QCgq7Pq bfLTE0YaYxsRxesec4PpdYA= =OHMc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jv at zork.net Thu Feb 6 14:08:46 2003 From: jv at zork.net (Juggler Vain) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: ?Equ: Tom Duffy, Aaron Lehmann (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] Spammer tricks -- useless?) In-Reply-To: <1044556400.20613.9.camel@biznatch> References: <20030206180351.GF12144@zgp.org> <1044556400.20613.9.camel@biznatch> Message-ID: <20030206220846.GD1312@zork.net> Tom Duffy's tunnel-vision on Don Marti's spamm-opsy: > On Thu, 2003-02-06 at 10:03, Don Marti wrote: > > Subject: Order v_i a g r_a from home - no doctors! > > 6899ADBw1-495NRnK5474dgTm9-581-28 Yes, well... an instance of spamm is sure to have incidental spamm content; but: > Thanks Don! I was wondering how to order my v_i a g r_a from home > without a doctor. And since you forwarded me this useful email, now I > know! ... when Nick Moffitt posted an url for a Colloquial Exposition of Relativity, Aaron Lehmann quipped: "I guess I should be leet like you and post other files that have been on Brian Raiter's site for years...". My thanks to @ of you To: for your fu. -jv... notorious radio-pirate From joseph at nuasis.com Thu Feb 6 14:30:51 2003 From: joseph at nuasis.com (joseph@nuasis.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030206213724.GA502@panax.com> References: <1044467402.3e414ecae87a0@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch> <20030205132217.C2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <63984.163.191.24.14.1044470269.squirrel@trillian.hafd.org> <20030205184523.GB5317@localhost.localdomain> <20030205213536.GF16179@zork.net> <20030206003741.GC5397@localhost.localdomain> <20030206040453.GJ17075@8ball.wox.org> <20030206200414.GC5317@localhost.localdomain> <200302062114.h16LELwj006749@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20030206213724.GA502@panax.com> Message-ID: <3E42E21B.2090704@nuasis.com> Patrick McFarland wrote: >On 06-Feb-2003, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote: > >>OK.. which one was the worse Nazi? >> >Hitler, I think. Nonsense. Hitler was an excellent Nazi. One of the best. From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Thu Feb 6 14:47:58 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: ?Equ: Tom Duffy, Aaron Lehmann (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] Spammer tricks -- useless?) In-Reply-To: <20030206220846.GD1312@zork.net> References: <20030206180351.GF12144@zgp.org> <1044556400.20613.9.camel@biznatch> <20030206220846.GD1312@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030206224758.GE7713@zork.net> begin Juggler Vain quotation: > My thanks to @ of you To: for your fu. -jv... notorious radio-pirate He'd hit the high seas, but they'd b0rk his fresnel zones. From nick at zork.net Thu Feb 6 15:08:29 2003 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [owen@ditherati.net: D I T H E R A T I for 5 February 2003] Message-ID: <20030206230829.GF7713@zork.net> Jack Valenti, ladies and gentlemen! ----- Forwarded message from Owen Thomas ----- D I T H E R A T I see the digerati dither, daily THE BOSTON BIT MANGLER "In the digital world, we don't need back-ups, because a digital copy never wears out. It is timeless." MPAA president Jack Valenti, showing an endearing, decades-long consistency in refusing to learn anything about the technologies he hopes to ban, Harvard Political Review, 25 January 2003 http://www.hpronline.org/news/347207.html?mkey=628413 ----- End forwarded message ----- From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Thu Feb 6 15:17:48 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 06 Feb 2003 15:04:14 EST." <20030206200414.GC5317@localhost.localdomain> References: <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044467402.3e414ecae87a0@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch> <20030205132217.C2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <63984.163.191.24.14.1044470269.squirrel@trillian.hafd.org> <20030205184523.GB5317@localhost.localdomain> <20030205213536.GF16179@zork.net> <20030206003741.GC5397@localhost.localdomain> <20030206040453.GJ17075@8ball.wox.org> <20030206200414.GC5317@localhost.localdomain> Your message of "Thu, 06 Feb 2003 15:04:14 EST." <20030206200414.GC5317@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1044573468.3e42ed1c6f14e@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu: > OK.. which one was the worse Nazi? Nietzsche was misappropriated by the Nazis. Heidegger was simply hoodwinked by them. But what does one say of Furtwangler, whose GENIUS is unmistakable where Beethoven etc were concerned, but who joined the Party despite that, or on account of that, or does the one have nothing to do with the other? I refuse to stop listening to F., or to stop reading the other two. I believe N. would have been horrified by the Third Reich. -- Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several USA streams from abroad. (Swift) From vipvop-cm at musesick.org Thu Feb 6 16:12:39 2003 From: vipvop-cm at musesick.org (MC MeatFlaps) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [owen@ditherati.net: D I T H E R A T I for 5 February 2003] In-Reply-To: <20030206230829.GF7713@zork.net> References: <20030206230829.GF7713@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030207001239.GA18662@gregh.ilan.cogent.net> On Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 03:08:29PM -0800, Nick Moffitt wrote: > Jack Valenti, ladies and gentlemen! > > ----- Forwarded message from Owen Thomas ----- > > D I T H E R A T I > see the digerati dither, daily > > THE BOSTON BIT MANGLER > > "In the digital world, we don't need back-ups, because a digital > copy never wears out. It is timeless." > Does this mean Jack Valenti will pay for all of my scratched CDs and DVDs? From squinky at dasbistro.com Thu Feb 6 16:21:12 2003 From: squinky at dasbistro.com (Not Erik) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [owen@ditherati.net: D I T H E R A T I for 5 February 2003] In-Reply-To: <20030207001239.GA18662@gregh.ilan.cogent.net> References: <20030206230829.GF7713@zork.net> <20030207001239.GA18662@gregh.ilan.cogent.net> Message-ID: <20030207002111.GH23513@dasbistro.com> On Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 04:12:39PM -0800, MC MeatFlaps wrote: > Does this mean Jack Valenti will pay for all of my scratched CDs and > DVDs? More that he's either an imbecile or a liar, or, as I'm inclined to believe, a generous scoop of both. -- not erik - squinky@dasbistro.com - http://www.dasbistro.com/~erik/ From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Thu Feb 6 17:17:02 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <1044573468.3e42ed1c6f14e@webmail.spamcop.net>; from rs@bernstein.providence.ri.us on Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 18:17:48 -0500 References: <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch> <20030205132217.C2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <63984.163.191.24.14.1044470269.squirrel@trillian.hafd.org> <20030205184523.GB5317@localhost.localdomain> <20030205213536.GF16179@zork.net> <20030206003741.GC5397@localhost.localdomain> <20030206040453.GJ17075@8ball.wox.org> <20030206200414.GC5317@localhost.localdomain> <20030206200414.GC5317@localhost.localdomain> <1044573468.3e42ed1c6f14e@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <20030206201702.C9993@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Yeah Sure They were all as innocent as those damn SUV loving mothers with Children! Ruben On 2003.02.06 18:17 Bob Bernstein wrote: > Quoting Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu: > > > OK.. which one was the worse Nazi? > > Nietzsche was misappropriated by the Nazis. Heidegger was simply > hoodwinked by them. But what does one say of Furtwangler, whose GENIUS > is unmistakable where Beethoven etc were concerned, but who joined the > Party despite that, or on account of that, or does the one have nothing > to do with the other? I refuse to stop listening to F., or to stop > reading the other two. I believe N. would have been horrified by the > Third Reich. > > -- > Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a > at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, > Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several > USA streams from abroad. (Swift) > > _______________________________________________ > CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks > http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey > -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From carton at Ivy.NET Thu Feb 6 18:22:48 2003 From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: (David Mercer's message of "Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:37:33 -0700") References: <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044464929.30669.2.camel@biznatch> <20030205123238.A1809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044469957.30669.28.camel@biznatch> <20030205133451.G2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030205192213.GE26183@dasbistro.com> <20030205155809.C8321@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044481256.30664.34.camel@biznatch> <20030205215013.GB23513@dasbistro.com> <20030205165544.C9153@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: >>>>> "dm" == David Mercer writes: dm> What part of DON'T TOP POST do YOU not understand? ``top poster'' is what we call people like that assparasite 'dep' who have to reply to every thread. I thinnk your copy of the 'wtf' database is out of date. -- But if you're near one of our centers, you can either provide a sample at home in a clean container and bring it in to our offices within two or three hours. Or you can come in and use one of our masturbatoriums. -- Dr. Cappy Rothman From carton at Ivy.NET Thu Feb 6 18:34:14 2003 From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030206003741.GC5397@localhost.localdomain> (Bob Bernstein's message of "Wed, 5 Feb 2003 19:37:42 -0500") References: <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044467402.3e414ecae87a0@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch> <20030205132217.C2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <63984.163.191.24.14.1044470269.squirrel@trillian.hafd.org> <20030205184523.GB5317@localhost.localdomain> <20030205213536.GF16179@zork.net> <20030206003741.GC5397@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: >>>>> "bb" == Bob Bernstein writes: bb> Nietzsche of course would have [wank wank wank] Nietzsche is a PCV. Let's see it, Bernstein. We know what you're packing in there, or rather not packing. You said it, not me. Now we'd like to review the facts. unless you're AFRAID of the facts. Nietzsche would have shown us his one-eyed custard-chucking serpent without hesitation. -- I don't have to be outraged to throw a brick at a cop. That was a ``tactical brick,'' and that cop was ``collateral damage.'' From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Thu Feb 6 18:48:29 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030206003741.GC5397@localhost.localdomain> (Bob Bernstein's message of "Wed, 5 Feb 2003 19:37:42 -0500") References: <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044467402.3e414ecae87a0@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch> <20030205132217.C2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <63984.163.191.24.14.1044470269.squirrel@trillian.hafd.org> <20030205184523.GB5317@localhost.localdomain> <20030205213536.GF16179@zork.net> <20030206003741.GC5397@localhost.localdomain> <20030206003741.GC5397@localhost.localdomain> (Bob Bernstein's message of "Wed, 5 Feb 2003 19:37:42 -0500") Message-ID: <1044586109.3e431e7db8822@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting Miles Nordin : > >>>>> "bb" == Bob Bernstein writes: > > bb> Nietzsche of course would have [wank wank wank] > > Nietzsche is a PCV. English please, English. What is a 'PCV'? And what is a 'wtf database'? Yes, I know wtf. Is that a leet term for a twit list? > unless you're AFRAID of the facts. Where N. is concerned, I have all the facts. Already. Which would you like...um...inserted? -- Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several USA streams from abroad. (Swift) From joseph at nuasis.com Thu Feb 6 19:05:45 2003 From: joseph at nuasis.com (joseph@nuasis.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <1044586109.3e431e7db8822@webmail.spamcop.net> References: <1044328346.3e3f2f9a930d6@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044374740.3452.3.camel@biznatch> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044467402.3e414ecae87a0@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch> <20030205132217.C2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <63984.163.191.24.14.1044470269.squirrel@trillian.hafd.org> <20030205184523.GB5317@localhost.localdomain> <20030205213536.GF16179@zork.net> <20030206003741.GC5397@localhost.localdomain> <20030206003741.GC5397@localhost.localdomain> (Bob Bernstein's message of "Wed, 5 Feb 2003 19:37:42 -0500") <1044586109.3e431e7db8822@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <3E432289.5040103@nuasis.com> Bob Bernstein wrote: >English please, English. What is a 'PCV'? And what is a 'wtf database'? >Yes, I know wtf. Is that a leet term for a twit list? > > PCV = Pressure Control Valve. Pop the hood on your '77 Buick Regal and you'll find one. From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Thu Feb 6 19:06:33 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (CEO of Brooklyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] A short summery of most relevent issues related to Tony's conference In-Reply-To: <20030206194831.C8806@www2.mrbrklyn.com>; from ruben@mrbrklyn.com on Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 19:48:31 -0500 References: <200302061635.20758.dyfet@ostel.com> <200302061733.04819.dyfet@ostel.com> <4084.156.42.68.5.1044571298.squirrel@gnue.org> <200302061828.50373.dyfet@ostel.com> <20030206194831.C8806@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030206220633.C13206@www2.mrbrklyn.com> On 2003.02.06 19:48 Ruben I Safir wrote: Fundementally, Both the Free Software Camp and the Open Source Camp are based on different views of what forge a Free Community of collaberators and users. While differences exist, which are substantial, and worthy debate, doesn't change the fact thay movements put community and people above code and systems. These systems must serve PEOPLE and the systems MUST encourge the enabling of individuals through the systems we create and use. Microsoft is an anti-competitive corperation GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY of destroying individuals and seperating them from the fruit of their work through unfair competitition and stiffling peoples right to innovation. Microsoft is DIRECTLY responsibly for undermining peoples right to innovate and compete in a free market. That company should have been decommissioned long ago for anti-trust activities, and I'll be damned if their blood should be on my hands. There objective is to destroy the community and it's really as simple as that. In addition, Microsoft has been negligent in their services and they have done huge damage to the economy and they threaten national security. Just last week they were solely responsible for nearly bringing the internet to a halt, doing seriou damage to Bank America and the national banking system. They should not have been allowed at LWE and they certainly shouldn't be allowed in any 'Open Source' or Free Software convention. I don't have enough starving qualified Free Software developers, business people and system administrators? But now I need to compete with an illegal monopoly at a convention designed to promote Free Software in Government!! WTF. Tony should be investigated for criminal activities in this regard, and the sesion SHOULD be boycotted. NY Fair Use supports a Boycott of this events and NYLXS is willing to support an active protest at the event of Tony and Microsoft. Ruben On 2003.02.06 18:28 David Sugar wrote: > > primary gripe is as David states the ideal that "shared source" is being > > put in a light that to people who are coming to learn about our community > > will simply think that its part of our community. When it clearly is not. > > On top of that there is little representation from the free software > > community which makes it even worse. > > > > -Derek > > Derek, yes, I that is precisely the issue that I found unacceptable in Tony's > conference, in that he is permitting Microsoft specifically to promote > "shared source" licensing as ethical equivilent to or as "another form" of > "Open Source" licensing, and by extension, related to Free Software, and > thereby gives it the appearence of ethical legitimacy that it does not > deserve. I thought shortening this a bit to what I found most relevant would > help Richard understand more clearly what has happened and what our concerns > are since I recall he got cc'd in the middle of an already very long thread > by Ruben and may have missed this. > > I know Ruben has additional concerns that are equally valid in regard to > Tony's eGovOS conference, in that it is also being used to commercially > promote OSS to governments (and in potential govt contracts) and that as a > result it will give the false impression that Microsoft Shared Source is > another OSS/FS license and perhaps also that there is no commercial > difference between free and propetary software. If I mistook anyone's view I > appologize, I was simply trying to summerize what I gathered from what I > heard for Richard to better follow what we are discussing. > > David > > > > > -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From dmarti at zgp.org Thu Feb 6 19:15:36 2003 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [owen@ditherati.net: D I T H E R A T I for 5 February 2003] In-Reply-To: <20030207002111.GH23513@dasbistro.com> References: <20030206230829.GF7713@zork.net> <20030207001239.GA18662@gregh.ilan.cogent.net> <20030207002111.GH23513@dasbistro.com> Message-ID: <20030207031536.GC24212@zgp.org> begin Not Erik quotation of Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 04:21:12PM -0800: > > On Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 04:12:39PM -0800, MC MeatFlaps wrote: > > Does this mean Jack Valenti will pay for all of my scratched CDs and > > DVDs? > > More that he's either an imbecile or a liar, or, as I'm inclined to > believe, a generous scoop of both. No way, d3wd it means HOT STOCK TIP!!!! SHORT VERITAS cuz jcak valenti invented PERFECT DIGTIAL MEDIA that dont' need BSKUPS!!!!!! -- Don Marti Even if we don't get DMCA reform, loudly http://zgp.org/~dmarti demanding DMCA reform is going to get the dmarti@zgp.org injustice of the DMCA in front of the next KG6INA jury. Make noise. It counts. From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Thu Feb 6 19:14:15 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Fwd: [fairuse] Re: [Marketing] Open Source for National and Local eGovernment Programs in the U.S. and EU [ruben@mrbrklyn.com] In-Reply-To: <20030206221101.E13206@www2.mrbrklyn.com>; from ruben@mrbrklyn.com on Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 22:11:01 -0500 References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030207082803.00c92ba0@mail.westnet.com.au> <20030206221101.E13206@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030206221415.A13507@www2.mrbrklyn.com> On 2003.02.06 22:11 Ruben I Safir wrote: This program is not being supported by the Free Software community and is currenly being boycotted See forwarded message: Fundementally, Both the Free Software Camp and the Open Source Camp are based on different views of what forge a Free Community of collaberators and users. While differences exist, which are substantial, and worthy debate, doesn't change the fact thay movements put community and people above code and systems. These systems must serve PEOPLE and the systems MUST encourge the enabling of individuals through the systems we create and use. Microsoft is an anti-competitive corperation GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY of destroying individuals and seperating them from the fruit of their work through unfair competitition and stiffling peoples right to innovation. Microsoft is DIRECTLY responsibly for undermining peoples right to innovate and compete in a free market. That company should have been decommissioned long ago for anti-trust activities, and I'll be damned if their blood should be on my hands. There objective is to destroy the community and it's really as simple as that. In addition, Microsoft has been negligent in their services and they have done huge damage to the economy and they threaten national security. Just last week they were solely responsible for nearly bringing the internet to a halt, doing seriou damage to Bank America and the national banking system. They should not have been allowed at LWE and they certainly shouldn't be allowed in any 'Open Source' or Free Software convention. I don't have enough starving qualified Free Software developers, business people and system administrators? But now I need to compete with an illegal monopoly at a convention designed to promote Free Software in Government!! WTF. Tony should be investigated for criminal activities in this regard, and the sesion SHOULD be boycotted. NY Fair Use supports a Boycott of this events and NYLXS is willing to support an active protest at the event of Tony and Microsoft. Ruben On 2003.02.06 18:28 David Sugar wrote: > > primary gripe is as David states the ideal that "shared source" is being > > put in a light that to people who are coming to learn about our community > > will simply think that its part of our community. When it clearly is not. > > On top of that there is little representation from the free software > > community which makes it even worse. > > > > -Derek > > Derek, yes, I that is precisely the issue that I found unacceptable in Tony's > conference, in that he is permitting Microsoft specifically to promote > "shared source" licensing as ethical equivilent to or as "another form" of > "Open Source" licensing, and by extension, related to Free Software, and > thereby gives it the appearence of ethical legitimacy that it does not > deserve. I thought shortening this a bit to what I found most relevant would > help Richard understand more clearly what has happened and what our concerns > are since I recall he got cc'd in the middle of an already very long thread > by Ruben and may have missed this. > > I know Ruben has additional concerns that are equally valid in regard to > Tony's eGovOS conference, in that it is also being used to commercially > promote OSS to governments (and in potential govt contracts) and that as a > result it will give the false impression that Microsoft Shared Source is > another OSS/FS license and perhaps also that there is no commercial > difference between free and propetary software. If I mistook anyone's view I > appologize, I was simply trying to summerize what I gathered from what I > heard for Richard to better follow what we are discussing. > > David > > > > > On 2003.02.06 19:38 Jacqueline McNally wrote: > Open Source for National and Local eGovernment Programs in the U.S. and EU > Washington, DC, USA, March. 17 - 19, 2003. > > "This conference is designed to discuss best practices, raise awareness and > the share experiences among policy makers from the U.S. and Europe. The > conference will draw participants from local, national and international > organizations from the public, private and academic sectors." > > Registration is free and preliminary agenda is available: > http://www.egovos.org/march-2003/index.html > > Any OOo people in Washington planning to go? It looks pretty full on with > lots of interesting speakers. > > All the best > Jacqueline McNally > http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/users/zenryaku/ > > Community Contact, Australia/New Zealand > OpenOffice.org Marketing Project > (www.openoffice.org) > > Are you a computer angel? (www.ca.asn.au) > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@marketing.openoffice.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@marketing.openoffice.org > -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 To stop the messages from coming see http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/appl/fairuse/gone.html ____________________________ New Yorkers for Fair Use - because it's either fair use or useless.... -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From carton at Ivy.NET Thu Feb 6 19:16:40 2003 From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <1044573468.3e42ed1c6f14e@webmail.spamcop.net> (Bob Bernstein's message of "Thu, 6 Feb 2003 18:17:48 -0500") References: <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044467402.3e414ecae87a0@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch> <20030205132217.C2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <63984.163.191.24.14.1044470269.squirrel@trillian.hafd.org> <20030205184523.GB5317@localhost.localdomain> <20030205213536.GF16179@zork.net> <20030206003741.GC5397@localhost.localdomain> <20030206040453.GJ17075@8ball.wox.org> <20030206200414.GC5317@localhost.localdomain> <20030206200414.GC5317@localhost.localdomain> <1044573468.3e42ed1c6f14e@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: >>>>> "bb" == Bob Bernstein writes: bb> Nietzsche was misappropriated by the Nazis. You've been reading the Walter Kaufmann translations again, haven't you? He's a well-known Nazi apologist. I'm serious, actually. You haven't understood Nietszche until you've read him in the original Esperanto. When you do, you'll understand that he's merely penis compensation. ``I have forgotten my umbrella.'' -- you kissed me Cold and for the first time heaven seemed insane From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Thu Feb 6 19:40:53 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <1044573468.3e42ed1c6f14e@webmail.spamcop.net> (Bob Bernstein's message of "Thu, 6 Feb 2003 18:17:48 -0500") References: <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044467402.3e414ecae87a0@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch> <20030205132217.C2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <63984.163.191.24.14.1044470269.squirrel@trillian.hafd.org> <20030205184523.GB5317@localhost.localdomain> <20030205213536.GF16179@zork.net> <20030206003741.GC5397@localhost.localdomain> <20030206040453.GJ17075@8ball.wox.org> <20030206200414.GC5317@localhost.localdomain> <20030206200414.GC5317@localhost.localdomain> <1044573468.3e42ed1c6f14e@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044573468.3e42ed1c6f14e@webmail.spamcop.net> (Bob Bernstein's message of "Thu, 6 Feb 2003 18:17:48 -0500") Message-ID: <1044589253.3e432ac5b7506@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting Miles Nordin : > You've been reading the Walter Kaufmann translations again, haven't > you? Um...no. It's been some years since I used a Kaufman translation. > He's a well-known Nazi apologist. I'm serious, actually. Whose alledged Nazi sympathies do you want to discuss? (And, you know, Miles, honey, it's ok if you really don't know that much about Nietzsche; really, it is! We'll all still love you to pieces you pussycat you!) -- Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several USA streams from abroad. (Swift) From ebourg at cs.mcgill.ca Thu Feb 6 19:43:52 2003 From: ebourg at cs.mcgill.ca (Erik Bourget) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] A short summery of most relevent issues related to Tony's conference In-Reply-To: <20030206220633.C13206@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <200302061635.20758.dyfet@ostel.com> <200302061733.04819.dyfet@ostel.com> <4084.156.42.68.5.1044571298.squirrel@gnue.org> <200302061828.50373.dyfet@ostel.com> <20030206194831.C8806@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030206220633.C13206@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030207034352.GA7353@mjollnir.odinnet> On Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 10:06:33PM -0500, CEO of Brooklyn wrote: > *sweet mother of SNIP* I find your mail unreadably long. As C-k did its thing in eating up the text of it (a strangely satisfying adventure), I noticed the words Microsoft, Guilty, and Boycott flash by. I see two possibilities - one, that you have posted a rant from one of your Interweb Friends who just installed Linux. Good for him. The second is that you have strung together a series of Slashdot articles and maneuvered them into my mailbox. Either way, this sucks. Die. Love, erik -- erik bourget | "emacs outshines all other editing software in ebourg@cs.mcgill.ca | approximately the same way that the noonday sun ---------------------/ does the stars. It is not just bigger and brighter; it simply makes everything else vanish." - Neal Stephenson From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu Thu Feb 6 19:55:39 2003 From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian Danger Hicks) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] A short summery of most relevent issues related to Tony's conference In-Reply-To: <20030207034352.GA7353@mjollnir.odinnet> References: <200302061635.20758.dyfet@ostel.com> <200302061733.04819.dyfet@ostel.com> <4084.156.42.68.5.1044571298.squirrel@gnue.org> <200302061828.50373.dyfet@ostel.com> <20030206194831.C8806@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030206220633.C13206@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030207034352.GA7353@mjollnir.odinnet> Message-ID: <20030207035539.GL17075@8ball.wox.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 commence Erik Bourget quotation: > I see two possibilities - one, that you have posted a rant from one of > your Interweb Friends who just installed Linux. Good for him. The > second is that you have strung together a series of Slashdot articles > and maneuvered them into my mailbox. Either way, this sucks. > > Die. Awww... I think Mr. Cranky needs a nap. - -- Brian Hicks -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+Qy46jLHcIq3dHxYRAkq4AJ9je9R00UfW36HNgZ1gGXK9aIuN6ACg4TLA uPBxtSDzsN6i36pgPbaNBV4= =Y4Et -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu Thu Feb 6 20:21:35 2003 From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] A short summery of most relevent issues related to Tony's conference In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 06 Feb 2003 21:55:39 CST." <20030207035539.GL17075@8ball.wox.org> References: <200302061635.20758.dyfet@ostel.com> <200302061733.04819.dyfet@ostel.com> <4084.156.42.68.5.1044571298.squirrel@gnue.org> <200302061828.50373.dyfet@ostel.com> <20030206194831.C8806@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030206220633.C13206@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030207034352.GA7353@mjollnir.odinnet> <20030207035539.GL17075@8ball.wox.org> Message-ID: <200302070421.h174LaJD002182@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> On Thu, 06 Feb 2003 21:55:39 CST, Brian Danger Hicks said: > Awww... I think Mr. Cranky needs a nap. Or some time alone with Ms Cranky. From andy at strugglers.net Thu Feb 6 20:32:41 2003 From: andy at strugglers.net (Andy Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] A short summery of most relevent issues related to Tony's conference In-Reply-To: <200302070421.h174LaJD002182@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> References: <200302061635.20758.dyfet@ostel.com> <200302061733.04819.dyfet@ostel.com> <4084.156.42.68.5.1044571298.squirrel@gnue.org> <200302061828.50373.dyfet@ostel.com> <20030206194831.C8806@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030206220633.C13206@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030207034352.GA7353@mjollnir.odinnet> <20030207035539.GL17075@8ball.wox.org> <200302070421.h174LaJD002182@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: <20030207043241.GD13455@lug.org.uk> On Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 11:21:35PM -0500, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote: > On Thu, 06 Feb 2003 21:55:39 CST, Brian Danger Hicks said: > > > Awww... I think Mr. Cranky needs a nap. > > Or some time alone with Ms Cranky. Oh come on, it's a bit far fetched to suggest that Mr Cranky has an unmarried SO with the same surname as him. Are you implying that Mr Cranky should sleep with his mother, sister, daughter, or maybe the wife of his own brother? You sir have a sick imagination. It is no wonder that Mrs Cranky has cut off his supply of the good stuff if he follows all of your advice, she couldn't have guessed he would turn to members of his own family though. From montaigne at att.net Thu Feb 6 20:53:47 2003 From: montaigne at att.net (Michel de Montaigne) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] A short summery of most relevent issues related to Tony's conference In-Reply-To: <20030207043241.GD13455@lug.org.uk> References: <200302061635.20758.dyfet@ostel.com> <200302061733.04819.dyfet@ostel.com> <4084.156.42.68.5.1044571298.squirrel@gnue.org> <200302061828.50373.dyfet@ostel.com> <20030206194831.C8806@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030206220633.C13206@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030207034352.GA7353@mjollnir.odinnet> <20030207035539.GL17075@8ball.wox.org> <200302070421.h174LaJD002182@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20030207043241.GD13455@lug.org.uk> Message-ID: <20030207045347.GD5317@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 04:32:41AM +0000, Andy Smith wrote: > Are you implying that Mr Cranky should sleep with his mother, > sister, daughter, or maybe the wife of his own brother? Actually, step-daughters seem to be most in vogue of late. It has to do with perturbed kinship ties, diminished incest taboo, and the frequent application of several large containers of fortified malt beverages. See me after class for details and research suggestions! > You sir have a sick imagination. It is no wonder that Mrs Cranky > has cut off his supply of the good stuff if he follows all of your > advice, she couldn't have guessed he would turn to members of his > own family though. Mrs. Cranky is a known tight-ass, and I'm beginning to wonder about you too in that regard. -- montaigne From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Thu Feb 6 23:33:36 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: References: <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <20030204211535.GE3712@localhost.localdomain> <1044467402.3e414ecae87a0@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044468796.30669.10.camel@biznatch> <20030205132217.C2440@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <63984.163.191.24.14.1044470269.squirrel@trillian.hafd.org> <20030205184523.GB5317@localhost.localdomain> <20030205213536.GF16179@zork.net> <20030206003741.GC5397@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20030207073336.GH7713@zork.net> begin Trolldozer for Hire quotation: > unless you're AFRAID of the facts. I've had enough of this liberal bullshit about facts! I challenge anyone on this list to prove to me that such things exist! From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Thu Feb 6 23:35:29 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] A short summery of most relevent issues related to Tony's conference In-Reply-To: <20030206220633.C13206@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <200302061635.20758.dyfet@ostel.com> <200302061733.04819.dyfet@ostel.com> <4084.156.42.68.5.1044571298.squirrel@gnue.org> <200302061828.50373.dyfet@ostel.com> <20030206194831.C8806@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030206220633.C13206@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030207073529.GI7713@zork.net> Ruben, set your goddamn margins to 76 columns or fewer before we take the margins off your pilsbury doughboy ass. From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Thu Feb 6 23:44:41 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Fwd: [fairuse] Re: [Marketing] Open Source for National and Local eGovernment Programs in the U.S. and EU [ruben@mrbrklyn.com] In-Reply-To: <20030206221415.A13507@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030207082803.00c92ba0@mail.westnet.com.au> <20030206221101.E13206@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030206221415.A13507@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030207074441.GJ7713@zork.net> [no really, scroll down!] begin Ruben I Safir quotation: > > All the best > > Jacqueline McNally > > http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/users/zenryaku/ > > > > Community Contact, Australia/New Zealand > > OpenOffice.org Marketing Project > > (www.openoffice.org) > > > > Are you a computer angel? (www.ca.asn.au) > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@marketing.openoffice.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@marketing.openoffice.org > > > -- > __________________________ > Brooklyn Linux Solutions > __________________________ > DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com > > http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting > http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients > http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software > http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net > http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... > > 1-718-382-0585 > > To stop the messages from coming see http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/appl/fairuse/gone.html > ____________________________ > New Yorkers for Fair Use - > because it's either fair use or useless.... > -- > __________________________ > Brooklyn Linux Solutions > __________________________ > DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com > > http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting > http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients > http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software > http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net > http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... > > 1-718-382-0585 > > _______________________________________________ > CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks > http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey Gotta love a message with nearly 50 lines of signature block. Crappo, that's a whole page of dot-matrix printout! From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Thu Feb 6 23:45:47 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [Marketing] Re: [hangout] Re: [Marketing] Open Source for National and Local eGovernment Programs in the U.S. and EU In-Reply-To: <200302062008.04288.einfeldt@earthlink.net>; from einfeldt@earthlink.net on Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 23:08:04 -0500 References: <200302062008.04288.einfeldt@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20030207024547.A20630@www2.mrbrklyn.com> It's not a matter of Open Source versus Free Software. It's a simple issue of wrong and right. The labels Free Software and Open Source just clouds the issue. Both communitiees have worked hard at building and consstructing a viable core of software and digital systems which enables uers to have primary ownership of their digital systems, and to open the market to fair competition, and broad education. Some people have been in such a rush for self-agrandizement, or looking for quick and easy payoffs, have now noticed that Free Software is a creditable market. It's become a crediable market because it has nurtured a development community and a user community which is capable of producing services which are unencumbered by monopolistic practices and licensing. Open Office is an important piece of that freed market. When faced with an early threat to an opening of commercial competition in a truly free market, Microsoft attacked the largest instruement of that freedom, the FSF's GPL. The GPL has protected the Linux Kernal and the bulk of the GNU and Free System for nearly a decade at this point. While during this same time period, Microsoft has been convicted TWICE of anti-competitive practices by twisting its lock on the desktop to destroy others efforts. Included in this was not just Netscape, but Borland, Foxpro, Lotus and dozens of other competitors. At the NYC 'Linux World Expo', Microsoft had begun to change its stragergy to destroy the efforts of both the Free Software community and the Open Source community. Its taken on the jargon of Free Software, but works on Digital Control software, known as Digital Rights Management, or 'trusted computing'. It now promotes its 'Shared Source Initiative'. Unlike many efforts (but not all) at IBM, or Sun with Open Office, or other vendors who have taken a dabble with Free Software, the MS initiative does NOTHING for the community other than help destroy it. Unlike the Mozilla project, it doesn't give the community rights to the code. Unlike IBM's work on mainframes, it doesn't donate to the working code base. Unlike Suns donation of Open Office, it doesn't fill any of the communities need with a quality product where the source has been donated to the user base for improvement. What it does is banter around a huge number of important words, such as 'community', 'collaberation' and 'code review', but it obstructs true unconstrained development of critical communications infrastructure. It still prevents a student from the ghetto from picking up a system and learning from the community, enabling him until he can contribute back to our shared co-existence. It is still a noose. And then at the NY LWE, Microsoft carried home a first place award for 'Best System Integration Software' for the Unix tool set Microsoft produced for NFS and other common GNU/Linux protocals. This was bogus for 2 reasons. First, ONLY Microsoft culd create the tools they did for Windows as they did it, because, THEY OWN THE DAMN CODEBASE and can debug both halves of the problem. In fact, they rewrote parts of the Windows OS to make it run smooth. Secondly, someone, in this case Bayonne, lost extreamly valuable publicity for their telecommunications software, which they could use to get more business, write more TRUELY FREE or OPEN Software, which everyone in the community benifits. Now, we have a running trend here. Tony Stanco, from the Georgetown Universty in Washington is promoting Microsoft at the egov convention. Tony Stanco has sepeately been banging heads with those both IN the OS movement and in the FSF movement.... not because he doiesn't get it....he can't be that stupid. It's because he doesn't CARE. It's ALL about him. He doesn't give a damn about the people slaving to develop Free Software systems, and who need government contracts to feed their families. All he cares about is that HE looks good. Microsoft wants to teahc the government about the advantages of Free Software... 'welcome aboard'. It's WRONG. It's more wrong than what happened with the Desktop Consortium convention which took place this week. And everyone with a conscious should be avoiding this event and distancing themselves until Stanco flies straight. Ruben On 2003.02.06 23:08 Christian Einfeldt wrote: > I'm a real basic OOo user. Could someone post the basic facts and players in > this dispute? Who's Tony? Thanks for the info. > > On Thursday 06 February 2003 19:58, Louis Suarez-Potts wrote: > > Hi > > > > on 2/6/03 7:51 PM, Ruben I Safir at ruben@mrbrklyn.com wrote: > > > I don't trust Tony. If we were to go down there, it would be to do a > > > formal protest. > > > > > > Attacking powerful enemies to coat-tail on them is one of my favorite > > > strategies, but > > > I saw what happened at LWE expo and in should be our home turf and the > > > rules are different. > > > > > > Their should have been protests at the Microsoft Booth at LWE, but I was > > > too busy. Instead, IDG turned it > > > into a MS PR event. > > > > > > Tony is doing the same thing, and it's my belief that Tony is on the > > > take. > > > > Well, personal animus aside, I think it would be useful for the members of > > this list to understand what the issues are, what the differences are, > > philosophical and practical, b/w OS and FS. I can point people to articles, > > but it would be great to have your slant. > > > > -louis > > > > > Ruben > > > > > > > > > Thus speaketh the CEO of the NY Times > > > > > >>> No. Let us go and show our better stuff and point out to everyone the > > > > > > gross lies of Microsoft. > > > > > > If we go the press will report what we say. Some reporters may partly > > > fall for some Microsoft lies, but if we do not go, almost every reporter > > > will present the worst, stupidest, and most vicious Microsoft lies as > > > being "simply the facts".<< > > > > > > On 2003.02.06 22:11 Ruben I Safir wrote: > > >> This program is not being supported by the Free Software community and > > >> is currenly being boycotted > > >> > > >> > > >> See forwarded message: > > >> > > >> Fundementally, > > >> > > >> Both the Free Software Camp and the Open Source Camp are based on > > >> different views of what forge a Free Community of collaberators and > > >> users. While differences > > >> exist, which are substantial, and worthy debate, doesn't change the fact > > >> thay movements put > > >> community and people above code and systems. These systems must serve > > >> PEOPLE and the systems > > >> MUST encourge the enabling of individuals through the systems we create > > >> and use. > > >> > > >> Microsoft is an anti-competitive corperation GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY of > > >> destroying > > >> individuals and seperating them from the fruit of their work through > > >> unfair competitition > > >> and stiffling peoples right to innovation. Microsoft is DIRECTLY > > >> responsibly for undermining > > >> peoples right to innovate and compete in a free market. > > >> > > >> That company should have been decommissioned long ago for anti-trust > > >> activities, and I'll > > >> be damned if their blood should be on my hands. There objective is to > > >> destroy the community > > >> and it's really as simple as that. > > >> > > >> > > >> In addition, Microsoft has been negligent in their services and they > > >> have done huge damage > > >> to the economy and they threaten national security. Just last week they > > >> were solely responsible > > >> for nearly bringing the internet to a halt, doing seriou damage to Bank > > >> America and the national > > >> banking system. > > >> > > >> They should not have been allowed at LWE and they certainly shouldn't be > > >> allowed in any > > >> 'Open Source' or Free Software convention. > > >> > > >> I don't have enough starving qualified Free Software developers, > > >> business people and > > >> system administrators? But now I need to compete with an illegal > > >> monopoly at a convention > > >> designed to promote Free Software in Government!! > > >> > > >> WTF. > > >> > > >> Tony should be investigated for criminal activities in this regard, and > > >> the sesion SHOULD > > >> be boycotted. > > >> > > >> > > >> NY Fair Use supports a Boycott of this events and NYLXS is willing to > > >> support an active protest > > >> at the event of Tony and Microsoft. > > >> > > >> Ruben > > >> > > >> On 2003.02.06 18:28 David Sugar wrote: > > >>>> primary gripe is as David states the ideal that "shared source" is > > >>>> being put in a light that to people who are coming to learn about our > > >>>> community will simply think that its part of our community. When it > > >>>> clearly is not. On top of that there is little representation from the > > >>>> free software community which makes it even worse. > > >>>> > > >>>> -Derek > > >>> > > >>> Derek, yes, I that is precisely the issue that I found unacceptable in > > >>> Tony's > > >>> conference, in that he is permitting Microsoft specifically to promote > > >>> "shared source" licensing as ethical equivilent to or as "another form" > > >>> of "Open Source" licensing, and by extension, related to Free Software, > > >>> and thereby gives it the appearence of ethical legitimacy that it does > > >>> not deserve. I thought shortening this a bit to what I found most > > >>> relevant would > > >>> help Richard understand more clearly what has happened and what our > > >>> concerns are since I recall he got cc'd in the middle of an already > > >>> very long thread by Ruben and may have missed this. > > >>> > > >>> I know Ruben has additional concerns that are equally valid in regard > > >>> to Tony's eGovOS conference, in that it is also being used to > > >>> commercially promote OSS to governments (and in potential govt > > >>> contracts) and that as a result it will give the false impression that > > >>> Microsoft Shared Source is another OSS/FS license and perhaps also that > > >>> there is no commercial difference between free and propetary software. > > >>> If I mistook anyone's view I > > >>> appologize, I was simply trying to summerize what I gathered from what > > >>> I heard for Richard to better follow what we are discussing. > > >>> > > >>> David > > >> > > >> On 2003.02.06 19:38 Jacqueline McNally wrote: > > >>> Open Source for National and Local eGovernment Programs in the U.S. and > > >>> EU Washington, DC, USA, March. 17 - 19, 2003. > > >>> > > >>> "This conference is designed to discuss best practices, raise awareness > > >>> and the share experiences among policy makers from the U.S. and Europe. > > >>> The conference will draw participants from local, national and > > >>> international organizations from the public, private and academic > > >>> sectors." > > >>> > > >>> Registration is free and preliminary agenda is available: > > >>> http://www.egovos.org/march-2003/index.html > > >>> > > >>> Any OOo people in Washington planning to go? It looks pretty full on > > >>> with lots of interesting speakers. > > >>> > > >>> All the best > > >>> Jacqueline McNally > > >>> http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/users/zenryaku/ > > >>> > > >>> Community Contact, Australia/New Zealand > > >>> OpenOffice.org Marketing Project > > >>> (www.openoffice.org) > > >>> > > >>> Are you a computer angel? (www.ca.asn.au) > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@marketing.openoffice.org > > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@marketing.openoffice.org > > >> > > >> -- > > >> __________________________ > > >> Brooklyn Linux Solutions > > >> __________________________ > > >> DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com > > >> > > >> http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting > > >> http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients > > >> http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software > > >> http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and > > >> articles from around the net > > >> http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown > > >> Brooklyn.... > > >> > > >> 1-718-382-0585 > > >> ____________________________ > > >> New Yorker Free Software Users Scene > > >> Fair Use - > > >> because it's either fair use or useless.... > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@marketing.openoffice.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@marketing.openoffice.org > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@marketing.openoffice.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@marketing.openoffice.org > > -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Fri Feb 7 00:05:33 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Open Source for National and Local eGovernment Programs in the U.S. and EU In-Reply-To: <20030207024547.A20630@www2.mrbrklyn.com>; from ruben@mrbrklyn.com on Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 02:45:47 -0500 References: <200302062008.04288.einfeldt@earthlink.net> <20030207024547.A20630@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030207030533.A21325@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Thus speaketh Jay <> I will always be the President and sole founder of NY Fair Use I will always be the father of my 6 kids I will always be a patriot I will always be a Jew... I will always be the CEO of Brooklyn (thanks to Crack Monkey) But I am a lame duck president of NYLXS, and at this junction it is inappropriate to commit the organization at this time to any huge undertaking, and then dumping it on the next President. However, as the ONE and ONLY true president of the ONE and ONLY NY Fair Use, and I will likely use that platform if I choose to pursue this after consultation with those active members of NY Fair Use. Ruben PS - Don't hesitate to read between the lines with your DMCA Googles -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Fri Feb 7 00:12:25 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:57:59 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Open Source for National and Local eGovernment Programs in the U.S. and EU In-Reply-To: <20030207030533.A21325@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <200302062008.04288.einfeldt@earthlink.net> <20030207024547.A20630@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030207030533.A21325@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030207081224.GL7713@zork.net> begin Ruben I Safir quotation: > But I am a lame duck president of NYLXS, and at this junction it is > inappropriate to commit the organization at this time to any huge > undertaking, and then dumping it on the next President. WHY DO WE CARE? And fix your goddamn margins. From zen at zork.net Fri Feb 7 06:22:44 2003 From: zen at zork.net (George Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <1044589253.3e432ac5b7506@webmail.spamcop.net> References: <63984.163.191.24.14.1044470269.squirrel@trillian.hafd.org> <20030205184523.GB5317@localhost.localdomain> <20030205213536.GF16179@zork.net> <20030206003741.GC5397@localhost.localdomain> <20030206040453.GJ17075@8ball.wox.org> <20030206200414.GC5317@localhost.localdomain> <20030206200414.GC5317@localhost.localdomain> <1044573468.3e42ed1c6f14e@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044573468.3e42ed1c6f14e@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044589253.3e432ac5b7506@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <20030207142244.GA26375@zork.net> begin Bob Bernstein uuencoded stream: > (And, you know, Miles, honey, it's ok if you really don't know that much > about Nietzsche; really, it is! We'll all still love you to pieces you > pussycat you!) Great. It's high school philosophy class. Do we also get to hear your opinions about Thomas Aquinas? Go rebel against your strict Catholic upbringing on some other list. -- http://www.georgebox.org - Where I keep all my stuff. http://www.emgnulation.org - Freedom in the emulation community. http://www.robotfindskitten.org - Gaming innovation. george@georgebox.org From ivo at o2w.nl Fri Feb 7 07:29:10 2003 From: ivo at o2w.nl (Ivo Timmermans) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030207142244.GA26375@zork.net> References: <20030205184523.GB5317@localhost.localdomain> <20030205213536.GF16179@zork.net> <20030206003741.GC5397@localhost.localdomain> <20030206040453.GJ17075@8ball.wox.org> <20030206200414.GC5317@localhost.localdomain> <20030206200414.GC5317@localhost.localdomain> <1044573468.3e42ed1c6f14e@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044573468.3e42ed1c6f14e@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044589253.3e432ac5b7506@webmail.spamcop.net> <20030207142244.GA26375@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030207152910.GA17090@juarez> George Moffitt wrote: > Great. It's high school philosophy class. Do we also get to > hear your opinions about Thomas Aquinas? I certainly hope so! Ivo -- Poak poak, I'm a pengaru! From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Fri Feb 7 07:44:30 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030207152910.GA17090@juarez> References: <20030205213536.GF16179@zork.net> <20030206003741.GC5397@localhost.localdomain> <20030206040453.GJ17075@8ball.wox.org> <20030206200414.GC5317@localhost.localdomain> <20030206200414.GC5317@localhost.localdomain> <1044573468.3e42ed1c6f14e@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044573468.3e42ed1c6f14e@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044589253.3e432ac5b7506@webmail.spamcop.net> <20030207142244.GA26375@zork.net> <20030207152910.GA17090@juarez> Message-ID: <20030207154430.GO7713@zork.net> begin Ivo Timmermans quotation: > Poak poak, I'm a pengaru! You are so Dutch. From squinky at dasbistro.com Fri Feb 7 10:05:59 2003 From: squinky at dasbistro.com (Not Erik) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <1044589253.3e432ac5b7506@webmail.spamcop.net> References: <63984.163.191.24.14.1044470269.squirrel@trillian.hafd.org> <20030205184523.GB5317@localhost.localdomain> <20030205213536.GF16179@zork.net> <20030206003741.GC5397@localhost.localdomain> <20030206040453.GJ17075@8ball.wox.org> <20030206200414.GC5317@localhost.localdomain> <20030206200414.GC5317@localhost.localdomain> <1044573468.3e42ed1c6f14e@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044573468.3e42ed1c6f14e@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044589253.3e432ac5b7506@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <20030207180559.GI23513@dasbistro.com> On Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 10:40:53PM -0500, Bob Bernstein wrote: > (And, you know, Miles, honey, it's ok if you really don't know that much > about Nietzsche; really, it is! We'll all still love you to pieces you > pussycat you!) This reminds me that I haven't seen A Fish Called Wanda in some time. -- not erik - squinky@dasbistro.com - http://www.dasbistro.com/~erik/ From squinky at dasbistro.com Fri Feb 7 10:07:36 2003 From: squinky at dasbistro.com (Not Erik) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] A short summery of most relevent issues related to Tony's conference In-Reply-To: <200302070421.h174LaJD002182@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> References: <200302061635.20758.dyfet@ostel.com> <200302061733.04819.dyfet@ostel.com> <4084.156.42.68.5.1044571298.squirrel@gnue.org> <200302061828.50373.dyfet@ostel.com> <20030206194831.C8806@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030206220633.C13206@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030207034352.GA7353@mjollnir.odinnet> <20030207035539.GL17075@8ball.wox.org> <200302070421.h174LaJD002182@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: <20030207180735.GJ23513@dasbistro.com> On Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 11:21:35PM -0500, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote: > On Thu, 06 Feb 2003 21:55:39 CST, Brian Danger Hicks said: > > Awww... I think Mr. Cranky needs a nap. > Or some time alone with Ms Cranky. You can tell them apart because Ms Cranky wears a red bow on her head. -- not erik - squinky@dasbistro.com - http://www.dasbistro.com/~erik/ From dmarti at zgp.org Fri Feb 7 10:16:20 2003 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] A short summery of most relevent issues related to Tony's conference In-Reply-To: <20030207073529.GI7713@zork.net> References: <200302061635.20758.dyfet@ostel.com> <200302061733.04819.dyfet@ostel.com> <4084.156.42.68.5.1044571298.squirrel@gnue.org> <200302061828.50373.dyfet@ostel.com> <20030206194831.C8806@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030206220633.C13206@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030207073529.GI7713@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030207181620.GL3978@zgp.org> begin Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco quotation of Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 11:35:29PM -0800: > Ruben, set your goddamn margins to 76 columns or fewer before we take > the margins off your pilsbury doughboy ass. Pillsbury® Doughboy® is a registered trademark of Paramount Pictures Corporation. -- Don Marti Even if we don't get DMCA reform, loudly http://zgp.org/~dmarti demanding DMCA reform is going to get the dmarti@zgp.org injustice of the DMCA in front of the next KG6INA jury. Make noise. It counts. From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Fri Feb 7 11:58:51 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] software for the agile business In-Reply-To: <20030207142244.GA26375@zork.net> Message-ID: On 2003-02-07 22:22:44 +0800 George Moffitt wrote: > Great. It's high school philosophy class. Do we also get to > hear your opinions about Thomas Aquinas? Go rebel against your strict > Catholic upbringing on some other list. What's "great" is that you believe a guy named Bernstein had a "strict Catholic upbringing." Georgie, you need to GET OUT MORE! -- Bob Bernstein MUA Pedants Take Notice: GNUMail compiled with NetBSD threads!!! From nick at zork.net Fri Feb 7 12:13:29 2003 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification] Message-ID: <20030207201329.GP7713@zork.net> bye bye spammer! ----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net ----- alec+keyword+crackmonkey.35f952@setfilepointer.com has been removed from CrackMonkey. ----- End forwarded message ----- From adam at flounder.net Fri Feb 7 15:06:15 2003 From: adam at flounder.net (Adam McKenna) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] A short summery of most relevent issues related to Tony's conference In-Reply-To: <20030207180735.GJ23513@dasbistro.com> References: <200302061635.20758.dyfet@ostel.com> <200302061733.04819.dyfet@ostel.com> <4084.156.42.68.5.1044571298.squirrel@gnue.org> <200302061828.50373.dyfet@ostel.com> <20030206194831.C8806@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030206220633.C13206@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030207034352.GA7353@mjollnir.odinnet> <20030207035539.GL17075@8ball.wox.org> <200302070421.h174LaJD002182@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20030207180735.GJ23513@dasbistro.com> Message-ID: <20030207230615.GZ2314@flounder.net> On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 10:07:36AM -0800, Not Erik wrote: > On Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 11:21:35PM -0500, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote: > > On Thu, 06 Feb 2003 21:55:39 CST, Brian Danger Hicks said: > > > Awww... I think Mr. Cranky needs a nap. > > Or some time alone with Ms Cranky. > > You can tell them apart because Ms Cranky wears a red bow on her head. HELLO SMALL CHILD From crackdonkey at donkeyshow.org Fri Feb 7 15:45:58 2003 From: crackdonkey at donkeyshow.org (#2 of Berkeley) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] A short summery of most relevent issues related to Tony's conference In-Reply-To: <20030207230615.GZ2314@flounder.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Adam McKenna wrote: > HELLO SMALL CHILD WELCOME DATACOMP From montaigne at att.net Fri Feb 7 20:36:16 2003 From: montaigne at att.net (Michel de Montaigne) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Open Source for National and Local eGovernment Programs in the U.S. and EU In-Reply-To: <20030207081224.GL7713@zork.net> References: <200302062008.04288.einfeldt@earthlink.net> <20030207024547.A20630@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030207030533.A21325@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030207081224.GL7713@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030208043615.GE5317@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 12:12:25AM -0800, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote: > WHY DO WE CARE? Jesus, Mary and Joseph, thank God someone said it so I DON"T HAVE TO. Hey, orange, huh? Let's all just get GUNS. Fuck 'em. -- montaigne From nick at zork.net Fri Feb 7 20:47:00 2003 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification] Message-ID: <20030208044700.GW7713@zork.net> Is that your radio station? ----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net ----- doom@kzsu.stanford.edu has been successfully subscribed to CrackMonkey. ----- End forwarded message ----- From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Fri Feb 7 22:25:41 2003 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (J. M. Brenner) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification] In-Reply-To: Message from Nick Moffitt of "Fri, 07 Feb 2003 20:47:00 PST." <20030208044700.GW7713@zork.net> References: <20030208044700.GW7713@zork.net> Message-ID: <200302080625.h186Pf047826@mail0.rawbw.com> Nick Moffitt wrote: > Is that your radio station? I don't personally own it, but have been known to abuse it's airwaves on occasion. No lurkers amongst the crackmonkies, eh? From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Fri Feb 7 22:52:50 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification] In-Reply-To: Message from Nick Moffitt of "Fri, 07 Feb 2003 20:47:00 PST." <20030208044700.GW7713@zork.net> References: <20030208044700.GW7713@zork.net> Message from Nick Moffitt of "Fri, 07 Feb 2003 20:47:00 PST." <20030208044700.GW7713@zork.net> Message-ID: <1044687170.3e44a9425e01f@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting "J. M. Brenner" : > No lurkers amongst the crackmonkies, eh? Why bother lurking? The keystroke monitor installed by our leet uberschmokencrackendermonkey black ops unit is working just fine! -- Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several USA streams from abroad. (Swift) From bker at yage.net Sat Feb 8 12:52:16 2003 From: bker at yage.net (bker@yage.net) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification] In-Reply-To: <1044687170.3e44a9425e01f@webmail.spamcop.net> References: <20030208044700.GW7713@zork.net> <20030208044700.GW7713@zork.net> <1044687170.3e44a9425e01f@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <20030208205216.GA5142@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 01:52:50AM -0500, Bob Bernstein wrote: > Why bother lurking? The keystroke monitor installed by our leet > uberschmokencrackendermonkey black ops unit is working just fine! Shut up. From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Sat Feb 8 13:16:30 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification] In-Reply-To: <1044687170.3e44a9425e01f@webmail.spamcop.net> References: <20030208044700.GW7713@zork.net> <20030208044700.GW7713@zork.net> <1044687170.3e44a9425e01f@webmail.spamcop.net> <1044687170.3e44a9425e01f@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <1044738990.3e4573ae2389a@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting bker@yage.net: > Shut up. Ooops. Sorry. I forgot. WE'RE AT LEVEL ORANGE -- Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several USA streams from abroad. (Swift) From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Sat Feb 8 15:02:29 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (CEO of Brooklyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030207233633.GA17130@perens.com>; from bruce@perens.com on Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 18:36:33 -0500 References: <20030207212928.GA16062@perens.com> <20030207233633.GA17130@perens.com> Message-ID: <20030208180229.A19035@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Looking further at the troubles with the e-gov-os conference and after reviewing the opinions of Bruce Perens, Richard Stallman, David Sugar, Jay Sulzburger, David Wheeler, Stanley Klein, Chalu Kim, Claus S?rensen, Jason Faulkner, Russell McOrmond, Louis Suarez-Potts, David A. Hammond and others, comments which have expanded over 10 mailing lists, and which have generated a few hundred private emails to me in my private email box, I'm forced to draw several conclusions. First, as President of NYLXS and President of New Yorkers for Fair Use, my primary concern is two fold: First, in my role as President of NYLXS, my primary goal is to cater to the needs of the membership, and the extended constituency of the organization, the Free Software development community and users in the New York City area. In truth, all organizations have a primary responsibility to their constituencies. It is time for others to look at their constituency and see how they are serving them. An organization which doesn't serve a constituency is an organization in name only. Secondly, as an individual citizen and active member of the Free Software movement, I'm concerned with broad policy decisions of others in regards to individual rights with in our digitalized communications network. I'm focused on practical activities which protect the freedom of individuals and empower individuals and communities in education, government and business. These are the only two prisms in which I can view the planned events of EgovOS conference. I tend to be very thorough and deliberate in my conclusions. When I work through the process of developing activities and actions, or when I write in regard to issues of importance in a proper fashion for publication, or when I give a formal opinion piece representing any of our organizations journals, radio shows, public speeches, or other formalized media outlets, I bring to bear on that presentation, not only thorough research of the issue and much consultation, but also my 30 years of political and practical experience in affecting positive political and social outcomes. I bring this same effort to this current letter, which I am opening up to the public and which will be published on http://fairuse.nylxs.com and which will be included in the coming NYLXS Journal. First, let's look at the stated goals of the sponsored event. As listed on htttp://www.egovos.org/, the goals of this conference is: Open Source for National and Local eGovernment Programs in the U.S. and EU Goals: 1.the presentation of best practices 2.raising awareness 3.sharing of experiences among policy makers, donors, users/consumers, universities, and industry specialists in Open Source, e-Government and related fields. NYLXS has, for a couple of years, worked to sell Free Software on both the local, New York City Level and in the Federal Government. We'll had a variety of experiences in this regard, many of them very negative. As such, this conference seems to be important to the economic and political health of the NYLXS membership, including The Free Software Chamber of Commerce, our Public Educational initiative in New York City Public Schools, and New Yorkers for Fair Use. Our direct prosperity as a community is tied to the stated goals of the conference, and in fact, members of the Free Software Chamber of Commerce had prepared to make presentations at the conference. It was the concerns of members of the Free Software Chamber of Commerce which brought the problems which have enveloped the conference to my attention. The main problem is the participation of Microsoft as a speaker and presenter at the conference. In a previous email, I have already listed the problems that Microsoft presents. But for the sake of making this a complete document, I will reiterate them and expand upon the Microsoft issue. First of all, Microsoft is a reckless company which operates above the law. It has recently been convicted twice for antitrust activities, and has been guilty of numerous other illegal competitive practices which have gone without prosecution. http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/ms_index.htm is a rundown of the current conviction of Microsoft for antitrust actions which is still going through the courts. Microsoft was not only determined have acted illegally in regard to browser technology, but they have also had their CEO, Bill Gates, lie under oath. The testimony can be searched here: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/video/gates/ http://www.broadcast.com/news/billgates/ investigation of his perjury is here: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/24990.html http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=View&c=Article&cid=FT3MLEDHF0D&live=true&useoverridetemplate=ZZZUGORQ00C&tagid=ZZZNSJCX70C&subheading=global http://abcnews.go.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/msdoj991107.html They even doctored their prepared testimony which got much press: http://www.idg.net/crd_microsoft_67162.html and to quote: Chase's testimony last week struck a note similar to the previous week's fiasco over a Microsoft videotaped demonstration. Government attorney David Boies had scored by pointing out inconsistent details in a videotape, submitted by Microsoft as evidence, that showed that Microsoft had used multiple PCs to film a demo the company first implied was a seamless segment filmed on one computer. U.S. District Court Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson said he did not believe that the Microsoft witness who had testified to the truthfulness of the tape lied about it, but trial observers said the incident undermined the defense's credibility. Further discussion of the Gate's Perjury includes http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Bill+Gates+testimony+Perjury&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=nobody-0602002327560001%40adsl-209-233-20-69.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net&rnum=5 In fact, this reprint of the original Ziff Davis Net article with a John Hall interview is in my private archive of resources. The article quotes Mad Dog Hall as properly urging the government to jail Bill Gates for his illegal activities: http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources/johnhall-ms.html Microsoft has competed unfairly with Borland, FoxPro, Netscape, Sun, Apple among others. They have actively pursued a business plan designed to strip individuals and organization from the fruits of their efforts by tweaking the desktop making others products function worse than Microsoft's products. They have repeatedly hindered the empowerment of people and prevented the empowerment of individuals, especially negatively impacting disenfranchised communities, such as those that NYLXS represents in Brooklyn, and the City of New York. 60 minutes even broadcast a show which showed to fear that developers have of Microsoft and the expectations of these developers to be damaged by their 'Partner' Of the many corporations in the global economy, Microsoft alone has distinguished itself as a proactive opponent to Free Software. Things began to heat up with the Halloween Papers. http://www.opensource.org/halloween/ Microsoft then made a frontal attack on the Free Software Foundations GPL, the most potent tool which protects the community from hostile activities by businesses and individuals who wish to destroy our ability to collaborate. This article by The Register at http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25891.html looks at how DRM (trusted computing) attacks the GPL. This certification scheme will rip the guts out of the GPL. That is, the minute I begin tinkering with my software, my ability to interface with the Great PKI in the Sky will be broken. I'll have a Linux box with a GPL, all right; but if I exercise the license in any meaningful way I'll render my system 'unauthorized for Palladium' and lose business. So instead, I imagine I'll be turning to my vendor for support, updates, modifications and patches. And I'll be dependent on them for support services at whatever price they can wheedle out of me because I dare not lose my Palladium authorization. I wonder if the cost of ownership of an open-source system will actually be lower than the cost of a proprietary system under such circumstances. Prior to this, Microsoft's Craig Mundie made several false statements against the GPL at New York University. Some of the most successful OSS technology is licensed under the GNU General Public License or GPL. The GPL mandates that any software that incorporates source code already licensed under the GPL will itself become subject to the GPL. When the resulting software product is distributed, its creator must make the entire source code base freely available to everyone, at no additional charge. This viral aspect of the GPL poses a threat to the intellectual property of any organization making use of it. It also fundamentally undermines the independent commercial software sector because it effectively makes it impossible to distribute software on a basis where recipients pay for the product rather than just the cost of distribution. Microsoft had mailed to every IT director in the US brochures which vilified the GPL, the Free Software movement, and by extension, the Open Source advocates. These mailings contained blatant lies about the contribution of Free Software to the economy and threatened IT directors and developers with unfounded negative consequences if they deploy or use Free Software. The recent GPL FAQ, for example, has the following excerpt: Have your lawyers read the GPL (and the LGPL)? Because the GPL is so frequently misunderstood and because it attempts, under certain circumstances, to impose significant obligations on licensees and their intellectual property rights, no responsible business should use GPL software without ensuring that its lawyers have read the license and explained the business' rights and obligations. They should also review and explain the Lesser General Public License, or LGPL, a related license that is sometimes used with open source libraries. Businesses every day uses Microsoft Software and the software of others which contain intrusive and abusive licensing which is directly in conflict with logical business practices. They would never be accepted by legal teams if the process was open to genuine contract negotiation. The contracts with Microsoft foists on businesses through its abusive monopoly powers constrains segments which allow the disabling of the software and intrudes on the private ownership of data and systems by businesses which purchase Microsoft products today. This is in addition to the clauses which waves them from any responsibility for damages done to business through security violations or the failure of products to perform according to their expectations. And then they sponsored UCITA to make sure that downloaded software from Free Software vendors can not get the same level of protection in a blatant effort to damage efforts of distributors of Free Software to comply with the GPL. Microsoft has been such an aggressive enemy of Free Software, and the general public that they have used the BSA to do witch hunts against users and business. They have threatened lawsuits against those who have reversed engineered their document formats They moved their free font access because users downloaded them for Free Software systems. They have proposed a DRM system designed to circumvent the freedom of Free Software development. They have fixed benchmarking studies versus Free Software systems. They have obstructed the legally required refund for operating systems which are forced on consumers with preinstalled systems. They built spyware into their multimedia players, twisted the Java programming language to be incompatible with the implementation on other platforms, refused to release products on Free Software platforms, which includes Microsoft Internet Explorer, introduced in NT4 service pack 3 changes to the SMB protocols to make it break with the Free Software SAMBA product, built back doors into in it's CryptoAPI, deliberately broke the Opera Web Browser when used with the MSN network, have brought down the internet through viruses TWICE in the last year, supported DRM in concert with Record Labels ( http://rss.com.com/2100-1023-983017.html?type=pt&part=rss&tag=feed&subj=news ), broke basic TCP/IP protocols with IE5 and IIS ( http://grotto11.com/blog/slash.html?+1039831658 ), advertised recently for advanced Free Software administrators to work for Microsoft in order to create a strategy to force businesses off of Free Software, and more. Overall, Microsoft alone as a corporation has distinguished itself as an entity which, as a core business policy, is set to enslave Free Software and the general population. Their mission is to dehumanize and embarrass our membership, and to impoverish our community. This body of evidence would be enough to reject out of hand the entry of Microsoft to the conference. But NYLXS and NY Fair Use has a growing new concern which is pushing it to action. In the face of the growing threat by the Microsoft Corporation to the well-being of Free Software developers, a threat that can be seen by Microsoft hiring GNU/Linux experts in the effort to undermine the business efforts of our community through lies and falsehoods, as well as technically breaking the beneficial integration of mixed environments, and which can be further seen by the 'shared source' media campaign which lies about the foundation of a free society and the stake of businesses in the promotion of both Open Sourced and Free Software legal foundation, there is an increasing knee jerk reaction by organizations supposedly representing the communities interests to give Microsoft a platform and a business advantage at conferences and shows which are designed to promote the community's effort in establishing digital rights and economic development. This started at 'Linux World Expo' in San Fransico and has moved into the New York 'Linux World Expo', where it directly damaged the well being of my membership through the winning of an award which rewarded them for creating a program only could properly write if you have the Windows code base, and it is now making its way to the egov-os conference. The inclusion of Microsoft at this event directly threatens the health of the Free Software Chamber of Commerce in New York City. There are places for an academic style debate for Free Software versus Sun's community license and Microsoft's "Share Source' . A conference whose stated goals is to raise awareness of Free Software and Open Software benefits, to present the best practices for government, and to share experiences about the benefits of using Free Software in government, is not such a venue. This venue is about selling Free Software and the community's efforts to the government. It is hoped to and create a much needed stable economic pipeline for free software vendors with government, based on its technical and political merits. Microsoft's goals are in direct conflict with the stated agenda of the conferences. Allowing them to participate, based on the sole attribute that they are Microsoft and feel that they have something to say, is not enough reason to allow them a platform which will be used to hurt members of the community. Microsoft has never contributed any code to the community. Microsoft has never advocated any benefits of the use of Free Software or Open Source Software Microsoft has never financially contributed to any Free Software development or promoted the education of people about Free Software Microsoft has not, in any way, befriended the community. Microsoft has positioned itself as an enemy of the community and has threatened it on numerous occasions. In fact, Microsoft has singled out the Free Software and Open Source community for abuse. Because of the growing misconduct of those who are presenting Free Software and Open Sourced Software to the public, first IDG and now egovos, NYLXS and New Yorkers for Fair Use is now contemplating action, not so much directed against Microsoft, but those wolves in sheep closing who are more directly hurting my membership and the community at large. In considering actions to take, we are looking at a number of possibilities. First, it is the opinion of Jay Sulzburger that we can use a hour of time to counter the arguments of Microsoft. My experience is that this will not work. On July 17th, I lead NY Fair Use to Washington to argue against the inclusion of DRM. Despite the fact that our presence was the most important part of the conference, to the point where we engaged productively from the audience both Jack Valenti and Philip Bond, we got no mainstream press. This was despite the presence of the New York Time's Amy Harmon and others. But our action was famous on Capital Hill. When we went back for the Peer to Peer/Berman Bill hearing two months later, several congressional staff members sought me out to ask what we did and to give us compliments. Simply, in regard to Jay's suggestion, nobody will attend such a session outside of the choir, and it will receive no press. On the other hand, Microsoft will get much press. It has been suggested that egov-os is better to concede a place for Microsoft to allow an open debate. This will not be affective, and the alternative of being tongue whipped by Microsoft in the press is far better since they simply don't qualify for a placement at the conference, and it will allow us to present to the government administrators without interference. It is not NY Fairuse's policy to play 'whack the mole' with DRM issues. Instead, we focus on specific actions which will have broad affect and undermine the ability of our political foes to bring endless action again and again through the governments entire alphabet soup of bureaucracy and congressional committees. If Microsoft objects to being excluded, NY Fair Use (http://fairuse.nylxs.com) would be all to happy to provide a forum for both Microsoft and Richard Stallman, and others, for the benefit of academic debate. It would be a good fund raiser for the Free Software Institute in the coming months. My guess is that Bill Gates has no interest in such a real debate. His company is only interested in marketing and damaging the community. Therefore, participation by any Free Software advocates, or Open Source advocates, in this egov-os conference is highly damaging to the community if it includes Microsoft. And we are therefor calling on a boycott for this event. It has been said that nobody is stupid enough to believe that Microsoft's 'shared source' promotes Open Source software. Unfortunately, this is very wrong. On the Open Office.org website, every day people ask if they can use and distribute the products. While I wouldn't say people are as dumb as rocks, I will say that they've been so conditioned to think out software as a super-restricted, crash inducing, virus ridden products, that they often have trouble thinking straight about what they should expect from business and software providers. NY Fair Use is now looking to organize a protest of the event in Washington. A protest will at least give those genuinely from the community an uninhibited outlet. However, NY Fair Use, in general, dislikes protests as a vehicle of change, as we feel they mostly are ignored by a public besieged by 'the protest of the day'. As a result, we are looking at a more organized campaign against this convention and those who would put events like this one together without considering the moral imperative of not harming the community by giving those who wish to destroy use a platform such as this. Egov-os supposedly advocates Free Software usage in business and government. It should do so without constraint and without apologies. We are calling for an investigation of the egov-os organizers for misconduct. I've spoken with Tony Stanco many times and it's not possible that he doesn't grasp the basics of the issues outlined here, or how including Microsoft will negatively affect our community. Therefor, the invitation of Microsoft to this conference must be either a direct payoff, or self promotion. Since they are moral equivalents, they are both both equally condemnable. We insist that Microsoft should not be given any platform at this event, because it is their purpose to undermine the community and its efforts. Since this is not being promoted as an academic debate, but instead is a marketing tool for Open Source and Free Software, we reject any arguments which are based on the concept that we should open the floor to them in order to dispel Microsoft corporate lies. This venue does not have the most basic format to handle this problem. If, for contractual reasons, it is impossible to remove them from the conference, we ask the organizers to give NYLXS's subcommittee, New Yorkers for Fair Use, both the keynote and the Microsoft slot in the speaking arraignments. David Sugar will represent NYLXS, and I will represent NY Fair Use. Finally, the website for the event needs to have on the front page a clear statement that it has determined that Microsoft's 'shared' code' program to be directly in opposition to both Free Software and the Open Source ideals, in that it does not promote the empowerment of the community through the freedom of innovation and digital systems ownership by individuals, the government or businesses. I do not expect that these suggestions will be taken by Bruce Perens, or the other organizers of the egov-os events. So I expect that we will have to work to oppose the event. Ruben Safir President New Yorkers for Fair Use http://fairuse.nylxs.com -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From carlos at laviola.org Sat Feb 8 15:17:59 2003 From: carlos at laviola.org (Carlos Laviola) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030208180229.A19035@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030207212928.GA16062@perens.com> <20030207233633.GA17130@perens.com> <20030208180229.A19035@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030208231759.GC30811@laviola.org> HELP!!! -- Carlos Laviola From joseph at nuasis.com Sat Feb 8 15:58:46 2003 From: joseph at nuasis.com (joseph@nuasis.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030208231759.GC30811@laviola.org> References: <20030207212928.GA16062@perens.com> <20030207233633.GA17130@perens.com> <20030208180229.A19035@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030208231759.GC30811@laviola.org> Message-ID: <3E4599B6.3000800@nuasis.com> Carlos Laviola wrote: >HELP!!! > No. From unknown at panax.com Sat Feb 8 16:13:53 2003 From: unknown at panax.com (Patrick McFarland) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030208231759.GC30811@laviola.org> References: <20030207212928.GA16062@perens.com> <20030207233633.GA17130@perens.com> <20030208180229.A19035@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030208231759.GC30811@laviola.org> Message-ID: <20030209001353.GA1724@panax.com> On 08-Feb-2003, Carlos Laviola wrote: > HELP!!! Google for a phsycologist in your area. -- Patrick "Diablo-D3" McFarland || unknown@panax.com "Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989 From bruce at perens.com Sat Feb 8 18:06:31 2003 From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030208180229.A19035@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030209020631.8986A4F48@perens.com> Reuben, People who promote Freedom would allow everyone a chance to speak. It's a totalitarian tactic to silence the opposing view. In a conference with over 100 talks, predominantly from friends of Free Software, to simply not allow Microsoft to have their say at all would be to brand ourselves as enemies of free speech, and to destroy our own credibility by putting on an exclusively one-sided program. This would absolutely not be in keeping with the ethos of the Free Software movement. I remain concerned that your efforts to protect others from hearing Microsoft's distorted version of reality will do the Free Software movement damage while promoting Microsoft's cause. I've been a witness to this sort of thing before. Richard Stallman and I spoke at the CODE conference in Cambridge England a few years ago. Richard was given an hour, I think, for his speech. Sometime afterward, there was a panel including myself and several other speakers. One of the speakers said something mildly sympathetic to the patent system, and Richard, in the audience, lost control and started shouting at the fellow. It was clear that Richard did _not_ gain the sympathy of the audience, and in fact blew whatever credibility he had built during his own talk. After getting the program back on its feet as best I could, which involved Richard storming out of the room in offense, I caught him outside. Richard was in tears because it was clear that he hadn't gotten his message across by shouting from the audience, and had indeed hurt his own argument. This is exactly the sort of behavior I see you heading towards - perhaps minus the tears. A year afterward, at another forum in Washington D.C., I sat next to Richard for half a day day just to help him keep control while the bad folks spoke, and to ask calm questions in his stead. He would have lost it again, and lost his credibility a second time, had he confronted the speakers directly - and he pointed that out afterward. The bottom line is that we gain nothing by sounding shrill. And the sort of tactics you're considering would do that. You accused Tony Stanco of taking a bribe in order to include Microsoft in the conference. Or if he didn't take a bribe, you say he's doing that for "self promotion". I don't see what self-promoting effect Microsoft's presence would have. I also don't see that there would have been a need for a bribe to get MS on a speaking program. It's self-destructive of our movement, for you to have made that suggestion when you know full well that Tony puts in many hours to promote Free Software, and has spoken internationally as a representative of FSF. Regarding giving you a talk and David Sugar the keynote, or vice versa. In the track where Matusow speaks, we have Mike Tiemann, Whitfield Diffie, and about 10 other folks who will make it clear that they don't buy the Microsoft line. I have to ask: Did you folks submit any papers? I submitted one and got it accepted. And I am reading down the list of speakers now, and it's a veritable Who's Who of people who promote Free Software in government. You may not know many of these people, but I have been working with many of them in various government presentations and I can vouch for them. I think that you and David could take your place among the fifty or so Free Software evangelists who are speaking and do a credible job. I don't see that you are offering more than they do. I may still be able to get you included in the program, but I don't see that it will make a very big difference over the folks who are already there. Don't ask for the keynote - that's not for either you or Microsoft. Thanks Bruce From kdoherty at cosanostra.net Sat Feb 8 18:37:21 2003 From: kdoherty at cosanostra.net (Kevin Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030209020631.8986A4F48@perens.com> References: <20030208180229.A19035@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209020631.8986A4F48@perens.com> Message-ID: <20030209023721.GA25287@cosanostra.net> And thus spake Bruce Perens, on Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 06:06:31PM -0800: > [snipped] Dear Bruce, Don't feed the trolls. Love, Billbob P.S. Get off my list. From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Sat Feb 8 19:20:04 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030209020631.8986A4F48@perens.com>; from bruce@perens.com on Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 21:06:31 -0500 References: <20030208180229.A19035@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209020631.8986A4F48@perens.com> Message-ID: <20030208222004.A23809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> On 2003.02.08 21:06 Bruce Perens wrote: > > Reuben, It's Ruben - with no E > > People who promote Freedom would allow everyone a chance to speak. > It's a totalitarian tactic to silence the opposing view. This is nonsense. This event is not a political afair. It's, in fact, a private event open to the public, and if 1000 'stop the war' protesters showed up, you would be in your absolute moral, ethical and legal right to toss them right out. Further, this is not a potical even. If this was NOT Microsoft asking, they would never have gotten in. And even a POLITICAL event does not require equal time. They can say anything they want, as long as it isn't on my time. They are not a citizen of the Free Software and Open Source community and they have no more right to speak, even while promoting Freedom, then the Klu Klux Klan. They have to meet certain minimum requirements to speak. They fail to meet those requirement. This private event has limited resources to make its case to the public and to its target audience. Not a second of that precious resource can be afforded to a convicted criminal entity whos stated goal is to end Free Software. So saying, "People who promote Freedom would allow everyone a chance to speak." is a huge red herring. If I was running the Government, Yeah. If I was dealing with a participant of the Free Software movenment...sure if I can. But never ever a swore enemy of the community. They do not deserve the oppurtunity to make a case against Free Software in any way at any event involved with the promotion of Free Software (or Open Source Software). If they want a debate, NY Fair Use will sponsor one. We can set it up for March (asuming Richard can make it then), and then we can open the floor to them. > > In a conference with over 100 talks, predominantly from friends of Free > Software, It's not supposed to 'Predominantly', it's supposed to be ALL Free Software and Open Sorce advocates. Certainly we can not give the floor to someone who John Hall makes the strong argument to jail for their convicted antitrust conviction. > to simply not allow Microsoft to have their say at all would > be to brand ourselves as enemies of free speech, Of course not. Nobody thinks that. Nobody would think that. And frankly, it would make us look good when people see we actually stand for something, like honestly, freedom to innovate, and not-cohabitating with a morally deprived convicted business. > and to destroy our > own credibility by putting on an exclusively one-sided program. This > would absolutely not be in keeping with the ethos of the Free Software > movement. Putting Microsoft on the show is a violation of trust with the Free Software Community and is a violation of the most basic of Free Software ethos. It is not the other way around. > I remain concerned that your efforts to protect others from > hearing Microsoft's distorted version of reality will do the Free Software > movement damage while promoting Microsoft's cause. > > I've been a witness to this sort of thing before. Richard Stallman and I > spoke at the CODE conference in Cambridge England a few years ago. Richard > was given an hour, I think, for his speech. Sometime afterward, there was > a panel including myself and several other speakers. One of the speakers > said something mildly sympathetic to the patent system, and Richard, > in the audience, lost control and started shouting at the fellow. It was > clear that Richard did _not_ gain the sympathy of the audience, and in > fact blew whatever credibility he had built during his own talk. What does this story have to do with what we're talking about? When I was with Richard in DC, we crashed the DRM party, and we DID gain sympathy, as a matter of fact, and we closed, for all pratical purposes, the DOC as a channel for DRM. Now granted, I was there and packed the audience, and I also controlled our crowd, which gave us a chance to present Richard in the best possible light. But this is not about any of this. This is about do we give precious time for marketing Free Software to known crooks who are sworn to destroy Free Software. The answer to that is NO. If it happens, there will be a boycott and likely demonstrations against the organizers. > After > getting the program back on its feet as best I could, which involved > Richard storming out of the room in offense, I caught him outside. > Richard was in tears because it was clear that he hadn't gotten his > message across by shouting from the audience, and had indeed hurt his > own argument. This is exactly the sort of behavior I see you heading > towards - perhaps minus the tears. You've never seen me in action in front of a crowd ... I am not Richard. But you can ask my orgnaization about my ability to lead in this situation, and to work a crowd and control the course of events. If I haze you from the Peanut gallery, nobody will be running out in tears, but we will make enemies. But that's alright, as long as they are the enemies you choose to make. Microsoft is an enemy, not because we chose them, but because they chose us. And AGAIN, non of this has anything to do with the issue at hand. > > A year afterward, at another forum in Washington D.C., I sat next to > Richard for half a day day just to help him keep control while the bad > folks spoke, and to ask calm questions in his stead. He would have lost > it again, and lost his credibility a second time, had he confronted the > speakers directly - and he pointed that out afterward. > > The bottom line is that we gain nothing by sounding shrill. And the sort > of tactics you're considering would do that. That would NOT be correct. Sometimes it is appropriate, and sometimes it is not. If this happens or not is really up to those who run this event. If you continue to give resources and cover for MS at this event, we will boycott the event, and we will look at other possible actions to expose the organizers. I'm not going to quitely allow Microsoft to muscle in on ever Free Software event from this point forward because of bad decisions being made by Tony Stanco in my name, or in the name of Free Software. We are not going to allow it with IDG anymore, or anyone else. Microsoft is going to have to find a different way to market its lies. > > You accused Tony Stanco of taking a bribe in order to include > Microsoft in the conference. Or if he didn't take a bribe, you say he's > doing that for "self promotion". I don't see what self-promoting effect > Microsoft's presence would have. I also don't see that there would have > been a need for a bribe to get MS on a speaking program. It's > self-destructive of our movement, for you to have made that suggestion when > you know full well that Tony puts in many hours to promote Free Software, > and has spoken internationally as a representative of FSF. Actually, I'm not making these claims out of ignorance. Tony has directly worked against the Free Software movement for his betterment. And I didn't say he took a bride. I said he took a payoff. It either involved funding or some other selfish benifit for himself. And Tony does not put in more hours than I do in this. And I'm not out there trying to secure my position with a University. I simply respresent every day users of Free Software and my obligation is completely to them. Tony can't say this. And since he did something so damaging to the Community in this matters, it could only be for a selfish purpose. > > Regarding giving you a talk and David Sugar the keynote, or vice versa. > In the track where Matusow speaks, we have Mike Tiemann, Whitfield Diffie, > and about 10 other folks who will make it clear that they don't buy > the Microsoft line. I have to ask: Did you folks submit any papers? I > submitted one and got it accepted. As a matter of fact, the GNUE people who I don't represent, did ask to speak. They were rejected. I will not submit a paper. Your welcome to choose any of the dozens I alreay have published, including the one I just sent out this evening....which is probibly the one I would use I'm only making this request because I doubt anyone would have the integrety with this event to boot Microsoft off the panel. And for the record, both David and I would do a better job than anyone on the panel. It's up to your organization. But I find it humerous that assuring Microsoft's rights is protecting Freedom, but ignoring our request, or pigeonholing it for beruacratic reasons is justifiable. I must say, that the reputation of organizers of this event is being closely judged at this junction in NY. I would be most effective with the Keynote. It needs a leathal, no holds bar on the attack of Free Software and the dangers of this to individuals and the government, especially in light of giving Microsoft such a high profile at this event. Yours Truly Dr Ruben I Safir -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Sat Feb 8 19:26:29 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030208222004.A23809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030208180229.A19035@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209020631.8986A4F48@perens.com> <20030208222004.A23809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030209032629.GB30751@zork.net> begin Ruben I Safir quotation: > It's Ruben - with no E I see one right before the terminating 'n'. Are you all right? From carlos at laviola.org Sat Feb 8 19:36:42 2003 From: carlos at laviola.org (Carlos Laviola) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030209001353.GA1724@panax.com> References: <20030207212928.GA16062@perens.com> <20030207233633.GA17130@perens.com> <20030208180229.A19035@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030208231759.GC30811@laviola.org> <20030209001353.GA1724@panax.com> Message-ID: <20030209033642.GB27966@laviola.org> On Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 07:13:53PM -0500, Patrick McFarland wrote: > On 08-Feb-2003, Carlos Laviola wrote: > > HELP!!! > > Google for a phsycologist in your area. Should I also get myself a spleling specialllist? -- Carlos Laviola From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Sat Feb 8 20:19:27 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030209032629.GB30751@zork.net>; from monkeymaster@crackmonkey.org on Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 22:26:29 -0500 References: <20030208180229.A19035@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209020631.8986A4F48@perens.com> <20030208222004.A23809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209032629.GB30751@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030208231927.A25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> I not alright. I'm sick of everyone treating Microsoft like it's some freaken innocent little girl just trying to make its way in the world when I have unemployed and talented people here in NY in a pick fork battle with all the marbles on the table trying to beat off their vendictive anti-competitive behavior. They least Bruce can do from his Ivy tower is spell my damn name right. And certain mutual friend from Silocon Valley should cut me some slack and take me off his shit list. Ruben On 2003.02.08 22:26 Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote: > > begin Ruben I Safir quotation: > > It's Ruben - with no E > > I see one right before the terminating 'n'. Are you all > right? > > To stop the messages from coming see http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/appl/fairuse/gone.html > ____________________________ > New Yorkers for Fair Use - > because it's either fair use or useless.... > -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Sat Feb 8 20:23:42 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030209020631.8986A4F48@perens.com>; from bruce@perens.com on Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 21:06:31 -0500 References: <20030208180229.A19035@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209020631.8986A4F48@perens.com> Message-ID: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Honestly, If Tony Stanco wants to do some good for Free Software, instead of inviting MicroNuts to a conference that markets Free Software, he can help the FSCC learn to get some damn contracts through FedBizops so we can make the case outselfves directly to the Bueracrats. Using his influence to do that he flat out refused to do. He endears me more, everytime I meet him. Ruben On 2003.02.08 21:06 Bruce Perens wrote: > > Reuben, > > People who promote Freedom would allow everyone a chance to speak. > It's a totalitarian tactic to silence the opposing view. > -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From joseph at nuasis.com Sat Feb 8 20:34:01 2003 From: joseph at nuasis.com (joseph@nuasis.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030208231927.A25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030208180229.A19035@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209020631.8986A4F48@perens.com> <20030208222004.A23809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209032629.GB30751@zork.net> <20030208231927.A25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <3E45DA39.5060803@nuasis.com> Ruben I Safir wrote: >I'm sick of everyone treating Microsoft like it's some freaken innocent >little girl just trying to make its way in the world when I have unemployed >and talented people here in NY in a pick fork battle with all the marbles on the >table trying to beat off their vendictive anti-competitive behavior. > > You should never bring a pitch fork to a marble fight. From aaronl at vitelus.com Sat Feb 8 20:33:27 2003 From: aaronl at vitelus.com (Aaron Lehmann) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030208180229.A19035@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209020631.8986A4F48@perens.com> <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030209043327.GC745@vitelus.com> On Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 11:23:42PM -0500, Ruben I Safir wrote: > Honestly, If Tony Stanco wants to do some good for Free Software, instead of inviting > MicroNuts to a conference that markets Free Software, he can help the FSCC learn to get some > damn contracts through FedBizops so we can make the case outselfves directly to the Bueracrats. > > Using his influence to do that he flat out refused to do. > > He endears me more, everytime I meet him. I'm not quite sure why Ruben's messages get a spamicity of about .70, but that's what bogofilter seems to think. Maybe someone on the list has some insight? From joseph at nuasis.com Sat Feb 8 20:40:26 2003 From: joseph at nuasis.com (joseph@nuasis.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030208231927.A25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030208180229.A19035@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209020631.8986A4F48@perens.com> <20030208222004.A23809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209032629.GB30751@zork.net> <20030208231927.A25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <3E45DBBA.9080809@nuasis.com> Rubn (with no 'e') I Safir wrote: >And certain mutual friend from Silocon Valley should cut me some slack and take me off >his shit list. > No, that should be Silocono. Or actually Silikono. I can spell that out to you in either hiragana or katakana, your choice. From bruce at perens.com Sat Feb 8 20:40:43 2003 From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030208231927.A25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030209044043.B92684F46@perens.com> From: Ruben I Safir > I'm sick of everyone treating Microsoft like it's some freaken innocent > little girl just trying to make its way in the world Yes, me too. I really am fighting them the best way I know. With just about all of my time. And spending too much time away from my 2.5 year old to do it. And I'm sick of stuff I can't even tell you about, because the proceedings at some of the meetings where I fight these folks, like the W3C patent policy working group, are under NDA. And it's more than just Microsoft. Some of our "friends" among large companies aren't such good friends when it comes to patent policy. > They least Bruce can do from his Ivy tower is spell my damn name right. I have now spelled your name correctly. My phone number is on my web site. You have had no difficulty engaging me - but notice that I came to you first. That does not an ivory tower make. Thanks Bruce From bruce at perens.com Sat Feb 8 20:43:53 2003 From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030209044353.9ED614F46@perens.com> From: Ruben I Safir > Honestly, If Tony Stanco wants to do some good for Free Software, > instead of inviting MicroNuts to a conference that markets Free Software, > he can help the FSCC learn to get some damn contracts through FedBizops so > we can make the case outselfves directly to the Bueracrats. He helps me to get federal grant work promoting Free Software. > He endears me more, everytime I meet him. It's probably mutual. Remember that "poleaxe" quote? It's your tactics. I'm absolutely sure. Thanks Bruce From joseph at nuasis.com Sat Feb 8 20:47:29 2003 From: joseph at nuasis.com (joseph@nuasis.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030209043327.GC745@vitelus.com> References: <20030208180229.A19035@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209020631.8986A4F48@perens.com> <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209043327.GC745@vitelus.com> Message-ID: <3E45DD61.1000903@nuasis.com> Aaron Lehmann wrote: >I'm not quite sure why Ruben's messages get a spamicity of about .70, >but that's what bogofilter seems to think. Maybe someone on the list >has some insight? > > That's strange. I'm getting a spamicity of around .93, which seem more accurate. What version of bogofilter are you using? There's a known bug in the Windows 95 edition, and patches to fix it. From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Sat Feb 8 21:21:43 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030209044043.B92684F46@perens.com>; from bruce@perens.com on Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 23:40:43 -0500 References: <20030208231927.A25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209044043.B92684F46@perens.com> Message-ID: <20030209002143.A30383@www2.mrbrklyn.com> I feel sorry for you. I have six children I see less than that, largley do to the economy and my commitment to free Software. On 2003.02.08 23:40 Bruce Perens wrote: > From: Ruben I Safir > > I'm sick of everyone treating Microsoft like it's some freaken innocent > > little girl just trying to make its way in the world > > Yes, me too. I really am fighting them the best way I know. With just > about all of my time. And spending too much time away from my 2.5 year > old to do it. > -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Sat Feb 8 21:22:36 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030209044353.9ED614F46@perens.com>; from bruce@perens.com on Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 23:43:53 -0500 References: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209044353.9ED614F46@perens.com> Message-ID: <20030209002236.C30383@www2.mrbrklyn.com> He offered to help with grants, I need contracts. Free Software Desktops everywhere. Ruben On 2003.02.08 23:43 Bruce Perens wrote: > From: Ruben I Safir > > Honestly, If Tony Stanco wants to do some good for Free Software, > > instead of inviting MicroNuts to a conference that markets Free Software, > > he can help the FSCC learn to get some damn contracts through FedBizops so > > we can make the case outselfves directly to the Bueracrats. > > He helps me to get federal grant work promoting Free Software. > > > He endears me more, everytime I meet him. > > It's probably mutual. Remember that "poleaxe" quote? > > It's your tactics. I'm absolutely sure. > > Thanks > > Bruce > -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Sat Feb 8 21:25:04 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <3E45DA39.5060803@nuasis.com>; from joseph@nuasis.com on Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 23:34:01 -0500 References: <20030208180229.A19035@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209020631.8986A4F48@perens.com> <20030208222004.A23809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209032629.GB30751@zork.net> <20030208231927.A25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <3E45DA39.5060803@nuasis.com> Message-ID: <20030209002504.A30539@www2.mrbrklyn.com> hmm Why not. King David brought a Marble to a Sword fight! I think we have a better chance. Ruben On 2003.02.08 23:34 joseph@nuasis.com wrote: > Ruben I Safir wrote: > > >I'm sick of everyone treating Microsoft like it's some freaken innocent > >little girl just trying to make its way in the world when I have unemployed > >and talented people here in NY in a pick fork battle with all the marbles on the > >table trying to beat off their vendictive anti-competitive behavior. > > > > > You should never bring a pitch fork to a marble fight. > > > > _______________________________________________ > CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks > http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey > -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From jays at panix.com Sat Feb 8 23:15:13 2003 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Correct use of Mutt, meta-spam-filter, Was: Re: Jabber abot Tony Stanco's eGov* conference Message-ID: <20030209071512.GA23440@panix.com> From: Jay Sulzberger Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 01:59:39 -0500 To: "Stanley A. Klein" Cc: Ruben I Safir , gnue@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, jays@panix.com, hangout@nylxs.com, bkuhn@gnu.org, dyfet@ostel.com, derek@gnue.org, fairuse@nylxs.com Subject: [hangout] Re: eGovOS conference in D.C.; I'm not attending that Message-ID: <20030209065938.GA18636@panix.com> References: <3.0.5.16.20030208160055.46f7420a@cpcug.org> <3.0.5.16.20030208063329.42df5f48@cpcug.org> <3.0.5.16.20030208063329.42df5f48@cpcug.org> <3.0.5.16.20030208160055.46f7420a@cpcug.org> <3.0.5.16.20030208190639.47475c22@cpcug.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.16.20030208190639.47475c22@cpcug.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-hangout@mrbrklyn.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Jay Sulzberger List: New Yorkers Linux Scene Admin: To unsubscribe send unsubscribename@domian.com to hangout-request@www2.mrbrklyn.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=GAPPY_SUBJECT,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_02_03,USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_MUTT,X_AUTH_WARNING version=2.43 X-Spam-Level: On Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 07:06:39PM +0000, Stanley A. Klein wrote: > About how many political campaigns I've been in, lets see. My first > campaign was in 1956 for Adlai Stevenson. The only one I've missed since > then was in 1960, when I was returning from 6 months Army active duty for > training. I called the Kennedy people to volunteer and they said they had > all the help they needed. From 1962 to 1967 we were involved in every > election that took place in Baltimore County, where we lived at the time. > We moved to Rockville in the late 1960's and have been involved in most > Rockville elections since then, and all of them since about 1985. That's a > ("nonpartisan") election every two years unrelated to the Presidential or > the state/county "off year" long ballot election. Either I or my wife have > been a precinct chair in our area (for the regular "partisan" elections) > since about 1968. It's hard to figure individual campaigns, because we are > usually involved in several in any given election. > > We've won some and lost some through the years. We usually do reasonably > well in our precinct, and have contributed from time to time at higher > levels, such as campaign strategy, organizing, writing position papers, > helping staff the campaign headquarters, and similar things. We've > occasionally had some big wins. > > If you will give me the basis of your count of 40 election campaigns > (primary, general, municipal, and whether you are counting elections or > candidates/issues) I might be able to challenge your assertion that you > have more campaign experience than anyone else on the list. Ruben [more correctly "Reuevaine"] is well able to set forth his manifold electoral and other political victories, but I should, just because often Ruben is too modest, inform you of one title which Ruben today holds by acclamation: CEO of Brooklyn Ruben's masterly campaign for this position is today taught in many Schools of Propaganda, indeed it is often both the first and last case study in courses styled "Blitz, black, and autonomic tactics". I will just say here that Ruben swept to victory on a WAVE OF CRACKMONKEYS, MOST OF WHOM NEVER VOTED NOR HELD ANY OFFICE OF HONOR IN BROOKLYN. oo--JS. > > The rest of what you have to say sounds like it is peculiar to New York. > We used to have someone here who had been very active in New York politics. > She lived in senior housing in our precinct. She knew Koch, Cuomo, > Guliani, and a lot of the other New York people, and kept in touch with > them. However, she died a year or two ago, so I can't show her your email > and ask her opinion. But I've never heard that kind of talk in Maryland. > > Lobbying is different from campaigning, and aside from a lot of work on > local issues through the years, I have to admit that my experience is > limited lobbying at the state and federal levels. I wouldn't be surprised > if lobbying in New York is a lot more confrontational than it is elsewhere. > You need to be careful applying New York tactics in Washington. It is > likely to seem too heavy handed and confrontational in the Washington > culture. And that is likely to turn people off and have the opposite > effect from the one you intended. > > I don't need to read history books to learn about politics, although it > sometimes is fun to get a different perspective. I've been steeped in > politics ever since my father took me to the Fifth Regiment Armory in > Baltimore to hear a campaign speech by Harry Truman when I was about 10 > years old. I've seen political machines come and go. I've also seen > drastic changes in the world of politics. And, BTW, I'm somewhat of a > CSPAN junkie. > > I think Tony may not have been in many campaigns, but I'm sure he knows > something about lobbying and inside Washington politics. Some of what he > is doing may not work in the New York culture, but it is the way to do > things here. > > I'll read your articles when I have a chance. In the mean time, I think > you better do a lot of careful thinking before you pull some of the kinds > of stunts people have been talking about to undermine the conference. > That's called cutting off your nose to spite your face. > > > Stan Klein > > > > At 09:26 PM 2/8/2003 -0500, Ruben Safir wrote: > >> Since you seem to be rather ignorant of politics and how things are done in > >> the real world, let me be more graphic in talking about the uproar and > >> firestorm I mentioned in my previous posting. We want the headline in the > >> press to be " 'Shared source is lipstick on a pig' respond attendees to > >> Microsoft position in an open debate at a free/open-source conference." > >> > > > >I'm reluctant to move this one step further, which would make it a flame war, > >but I'll tell you this. You are flat out wrongf about my political > experience > >and I'm certain that I have more experience in politics than any single > person > >on this list. > > > >Your brand of 'real world' debate wouldn't get you past a PTA meeting let > alone > >something as imporant and contriversal as this. > > > >Tell me, how many political campains have you worked with? > > > >I've been an active participant on over 40 election campains. > >None of them remotely sound like anything your talking about. Perhaps > >you should actually observe a political campain or two before dictating to > >someone with real experience in these matters as to what is proper > politically, > >and what is not. > > > >Unlike in Washington, we in NY and weare not restricted by our job > description and federal > >law from participating in campains. We are allowed to support openly > canidates running for office. > > > > > > > > > >> We don't want the headlines to be "Academic freedom is OK for controversial > >> racists but not for Microsoft," "Whatever happened to the first amendment > >> -- George Washington University charged with bias against unpopular views > >> at conference," "Microsoft is right, Free Software is UnAmerican charge > >> Microsoft supporters in Congress after Microsoft denied right to speak at > >> free/open-source software conference," "Government employees ordered to > >> withdraw from conference committee and drop involvement with Free Software > >> after controversy over rejection of Microsoft as speaker at conference." > >> > >> Does that make things more clear? > > > > > >It makes it clear to me that politically, your what we describe as a > 'coward'. And THAT > >is proper political jaargon used in evaluating campainers in the party who > concede to your > >adversary without rational reason. 'Cowards' are systematically weeded > out of the party > >by 'henchmen' because they destroy party solidarty and have a high > probibly of morphing into > >'traitors'. > > > >None of your hypothetical headlines would ever be published with a > competetent polical > >leadership on the scene. > > > > > > > > Oh - that's right... in this case there is none! > > > >> I understand that Tony Stanco spoke at LinuxWorld to the effect that the > >> Free Software and Open-Source software communities need to learn how to > >> lobby in Washington to counter Microsoft's big-bucks lobbying efforts. > > > >Yeah Yeah, what you didn't read was my article in the Linux Journal on > grassroots > >organizing. Tony, who has never run a single political campain in his > life, is just > >flat out wrong. And I smell a 'Rat', which is another COMMON political > lexicon in > >'real world' politics. 'Rat' is someone who sells out or leaks > information to the > >opposition for unscrupules reasons. > > > > > >> This discussion proves to me that this community has an enormous amount of > >> learning to do before it capable of becoming as effective at lobbying as it > >> needs to become. > > > >Yeah it does. And this lerning curve starts with YOU. > > > >Frankly, you don't KNOW how to win. Now you have two choices. You can sulk > >and take personal jabs at me, or you can become self-reflective and admit > >that you don't KNOW how to run a real campain, and you can start to become > >educated about the 'Real World' of politics by reading this: > > > >http://www.nylxs.com/pathfromhere.html > > > >It wouldn't hurt for you to read about Robert Moses, Tamany Hall, Mayor Daily > >and John F Kenedy. You can also learn something from the original George > Bush > >campain, the Contract with America and the rise of Union Labor in American > >Politics. > > > >Let me drop one last clue on you... it's a good thing Democracy. It means > that > >political factions don't shoot each other to determine who gets to be king. > >But it does nothing to change the actual nature of politics.... > > > > > > > >> > > >> >> > >> >> Are you suggesting that in order for the conference to be legitimate a > >> >> university and a conference committee that includes several government > >> >> employees should deny a speaker from Microsoft the right to present the > >> >> Microsoft position in debate before an audience almost guaranteed to be > >> >> packed with active competitors and adversaries of Microsoft? > >> >> > >> >> Can you imagine for a moment the uproar and political firestorm that > would > >> >> result from such a situation? > >> > > >> >Fine, as long as it takes place out of the room and as long as they get my > >> name > >> >and the URL for the Free Software Chamber of Commerce right before they > >> attack it > >> > > >> >In any event, it's not a debate. If it's a debate on Free Software versus > >> >Propriatory software, say so on the website so that everyone knows this > and > >> >is prepared going in. > >> > > >> >Overwise, it's a conference on the reasons and uses of Open Source and > >> Free Software > >> >for government and Microsoft doesn't qualify under EITHER category. > >> > > >> > > >> >> As an attendee and participant in this and related events, let me assure > >> >> you that the event does not merely pretend to be part of our > community, it > >> >> is part of our community. And the spirit of our community is not > betrayed. > >> > > >> >If this event includes Microsoft, it betrays the Community. Bayonne was > >> imediately > >> >affected by the presense of Microsoft at LWE in NY by denying it a first > >> place award > >> >and the press it deserved. > >> > > >> >That translates to food on dinner plates for my members ... period. > > > >-- > >__________________________ > >Brooklyn Linux Solutions > >__________________________ > >DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com > > > >http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting > >http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients > >http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software > >http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and > articles from around the net > >http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... > > > >1-718-382-0585 > > > > ____________________________ New Yorker Free Software Users Scene Fair Use - because it's either fair use or useless.... From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Sat Feb 8 23:32:13 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030209002236.C30383@www2.mrbrklyn.com>; from ruben@mrbrklyn.com on Sun, Feb 09, 2003 at 00:22:36 -0500 References: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209044353.9ED614F46@perens.com> <20030209002236.C30383@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030209023213.A31691@www2.mrbrklyn.com> I happen to agree with this assessment. If it's not done in a very well organized way, we will just come off as a bunch of malcontents. This has to be thought through and I need to talk to people about it. As I said before, as a lame duck, I don't want to drag the next president into something he is not committed to do. NY Fair Use would need to work with NYLXS to pull this off well. I think the first step is a boycott, and I hope Richard reconsiders and calls a boycot. Nothing Tonewy has yet done has been of any help to anyone in the FS community and this event might be just a sleeper. I still think he's on the take. At minimum, he is not anwerable to the community in any way. I was actully more interested in the Tech Expo that Novalug is involved with which Jim announced on NYLUG. And I have been cooking up a political action for Albany and City Hall. The quetion is, what is the most effective means to our goals at this junction. Clearly this egovos is a runaway train wreck. It might just be easier to boycott it and ignor it, and focus on something positive with the City. It's three days. Does it include and exhibitors section where negotiations can be started for deals? Will Microoft be on the expo floor? I have a roadmap now for Federal Contracts, and the FSCC wil probibly invest energy and money in persueing such contracts. Money, at this point, is at least as important as make political hay. And really, that speaking list is such a group of minor players. The wierd thing is that they have no idea how minor they really are. If my first writing wasn't enough to turn the tide on this, nothing else said or done can have positive affect. It just turns into ranting at the wind. I'm going to call and NY Fair Use meeting for next week and we'll decide what we want to do. We can either attach on this front, or we can try to do something constructive with the 6 Billion dollar NYC deficit, and try to make a difference here. Personally, I wish we could do both, but I don't have the man power. One thing is clear, the invitation of Microsoft at this event undermines the community and if this goes forward in its current format, I'd have to say that the community should be looking at the organizers very suspiciously. I'm not buying into Bruces arguement at all and I lost faith in Stanco a long time ago. These people don't get it. Until the heat is turned on from the grassroot level, nothing is changing. The only thing a conference like this can possitively contribute is for opening up contracts in a broadway for vendors. Microsofts presence directly undermines this agenda, since it is Microsoft which has to be largely unseated and because MS doesn't play fair. It's likely to end up being just another useless tarpit like the digbat running Public Knowledge who embarresed herself and set the movement back on the P2P issue by several months. She actually started to negotiate with Berman as to which our of property right we would be willing to give away to the RIAA. The whole Washington Scene is increasingly looking like a snakepit. We should just probibly focus on the home front. Congress is turned over every two years. There are a lot of groups in a lot counties. They all have to come home, and we should probably turn up the heat at home. Ruben Thus speaketh Jay <> -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Sat Feb 8 23:38:03 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030209023213.A31691@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209044353.9ED614F46@perens.com> <20030209002236.C30383@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209023213.A31691@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030209073803.GH30751@zork.net> begin Ruben I Safir quotation: > I happen to agree with this assessment. If it's not done in a very well organized way, Ruben. It's not hard. 78 columns, ok? We'll give you 78. Hell, anything less than 80 would be good. Just FIX YOUR DAMN MARGINS. Then we can move on to your signature block, and your irritating quotation style. From ebourg at cs.mcgill.ca Sun Feb 9 00:35:49 2003 From: ebourg at cs.mcgill.ca (Erik Bourget) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030209073803.GH30751@zork.net> References: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209044353.9ED614F46@perens.com> <20030209002236.C30383@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209023213.A31691@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209073803.GH30751@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030209083548.GA29727@mjollnir.odinnet> On Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 11:38:03PM -0800, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote: > begin Ruben I Safir quotation: > > I happen to agree with this assessment. If it's not done in a very well organized way, > > Ruben. > > It's not hard. > > 78 columns, ok? We'll give you 78. Hell, anything > less than 80 would be good. Just FIX YOUR DAMN MARGINS. > > Then we can move on to your signature block, and your > irritating quotation style. > And irritating content. -- erik bourget | "emacs outshines all other editing software in ebourg@cs.mcgill.ca | approximately the same way that the noonday sun ---------------------/ does the stars. It is not just bigger and brighter; it simply makes everything else vanish." - Neal Stephenson From andy at strugglers.net Sun Feb 9 06:07:04 2003 From: andy at strugglers.net (Andy Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030208222004.A23809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030208180229.A19035@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209020631.8986A4F48@perens.com> <20030208222004.A23809@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030209140704.GS13455@lug.org.uk> On Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 10:20:04PM -0500, Ruben I Safir wrote: > > On 2003.02.08 21:06 Bruce Perens wrote: > > > > Reuben, > > It's Ruben - with no E Let me be the first to congratulate you on your crushing defeat of Micro$oft lapdog Bruce Perens. From zen at zork.net Sun Feb 9 09:33:50 2003 From: zen at zork.net (George Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030209002143.A30383@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030208231927.A25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209044043.B92684F46@perens.com> <20030209002143.A30383@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030209173350.GA566@zork.net> begin Ruben I Safir uuencoded stream: > I feel sorry for you. I have six children I see less than that, largley do to > the economy and my commitment to free Software. I have seventeen kids, three wives, a farmload of chickens, and about four or five mistresses, and my devotion to free software has prevented me from seeing any of them in years. I think you both should reevaluate your sincerity and follow my example. -- http://www.georgebox.org - Where I keep all my stuff. http://www.emgnulation.org - Freedom in the emulation community. http://www.robotfindskitten.org - Gaming innovation. george@georgebox.org From zen at zork.net Sun Feb 9 09:50:13 2003 From: zen at zork.net (George Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030209023213.A31691@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209044353.9ED614F46@perens.com> <20030209002236.C30383@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209023213.A31691@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030209175013.GA4290@zork.net> begin Ruben I Safir uuencoded stream: > > [gar gar gar] > > Ruben http://georgebox.org/penpen/2003/Feb2003/08Feb2003_01/bigcam010.html ^-------------------------- This thread ---------------------------^ -- http://www.georgebox.org - Where I keep all my stuff. http://www.emgnulation.org - Freedom in the emulation community. http://www.robotfindskitten.org - Gaming innovation. george@georgebox.org From nick at zork.net Sun Feb 9 10:05:16 2003 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:00 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification] Message-ID: <20030209180516.GK30751@zork.net> Ha ha RBOC ----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net ----- baast@bellsouth.net has been successfully subscribed to CrackMonkey. ----- End forwarded message ----- From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Sun Feb 9 16:11:35 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:01 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Tonite's TeeVee Message-ID: <1044835895.3e46ee37d4a43@webmail.spamcop.net> --- snip --- 10:00 PM Channel 64 HBO Sunday, 9 Cannibal: The Real Hannibal Lecters 60 min. A look at the gruesome habits of some of the most notorious criminals, including Andrei Chikatilo, Arthur Shawcross, Jeffrey Dahmer and Issei Sagawa. Included: interviews with Shawcross and Sagawa; comments from historians and scholars. --- snip --- I'm there! -- Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several USA streams from abroad. (Swift) From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Sun Feb 9 16:41:14 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:01 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030209044353.9ED614F46@perens.com> References: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209044353.9ED614F46@perens.com> Message-ID: <20030210004114.GA12670@www2.mrbrklyn.com> > > > He endears me more, everytime I meet him. > > It's probably mutual. Remember that "poleaxe" quote? > > It's your tactics. I'm absolutely sure. > It was completely not my tactics. It's Tony's tactics. By the time Tony got to LWE last year, I was the only one left who would even talk to him. He was simply unwilling to use his connections for something as mundain as helping Free Software developers sell to the government. It was at that point, that I decided I had really no longer much use for him. That pretty much closed out his efforts in NY. getting back to the MS presentation, we've been reviewing the speaker's track record and his presentation on egovos. It makes it clearer that he is flatout lieing about events in such a way which will be almost impossible for the uninitiated to interpret or understand. For example, He says on Orielly that somehow MS got caught up in an unimportant arguement about the GPL, and now they want to move on to something of more substantive. really now? Their frontal attack on the most important FS tool is hardly unimportant, and those who vigerously argued with them were painted as wackos by MS. Let MS pitch this BS elsewhere. Further he said that everyone is moving towards the middle> HUH? Say again. Does this mean MS is going to retract their purgury in court, and end their radical program to lock down and spy on every computer in the world? Please. Never underestimate your enemy. If this a program designed to pitch FS, then let MS first play by the rules and EARN a place at the table. They haven't yet earned a place. Ruben > Thanks > > Bruce > > To stop the messages from coming see http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/appl/fairuse/gone.html > ____________________________ > New Yorkers for Fair Use - > because it's either fair use or useless.... -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Sun Feb 9 17:01:23 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:01 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [novalug] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <04d301c2d09e$0b3db9c0$6500a8c0@antifreeze> References: <04d301c2d09e$0b3db9c0$6500a8c0@antifreeze> Message-ID: <20030210010123.GA12963@www2.mrbrklyn.com> On Sun, Feb 09, 2003 at 07:47:42PM -0500, Seth J. Blank wrote: > What is wrong with providing Microsoft a place to speak in an open source > forum? What's wrong with excluding them. Their not relevent to the conference and have nothing to contribute. > > Aside from not wanting to sink to their level and silence opposing views > (remember, open source is about the inclusion of ideas, not their > exclusion), let us consider what would happen if Microsoft spoke. Open Source is not silensing them just because they're not qualified to present at the conference. Open Source is just making responsible decisions on how to use our limited resources. They can and do talk all the time. > > It seems to me that there are only two outcomes of Microsoft speaking, > namely that they would make fools of themselves, or that people would buy > into their FUD. > > The first circumstance, while welcome, would probably not happen. So let's > concentrate on people buying into MS's FUD. It's a waste of precious resources to fight MS FUD in an event designed to market Free Software to governments. And therefor, MS should be excluded. > If the members of the forum > cannot contradict Microsoft and allay people's fears, then perhaps the open > source movement has more to worry about than Microsoft speaking in one of > their forums. > > Also, your assertion that Microsoft is evil and should be shunned at any > computer forum in general is unfounded and irrelevant. Actually, it would be more correct to charactorize MS as evil than pretend they are a responsible corperate citizen. MS has been convicted TWICE for antitrust activity, and has thwarted economic developement. They have inihibited community developement with their monopolistic activities, and is working on DRM which would end Free Software on the Intel platform. They have repeatedly twarted peoples right to innovate, and start witch hunts with the BSA. How else can they be described better than Evil? Is Criminal and Anti-Social a better description? > Idealistic, but > irrelevant. Microsoft isn't going anywhere, and ignoring it or calling it > names does nothing to change this. Ignoring them is fine. It's the best tactic. Let MS rail away but they should have no position in a Free Software event of any kind. > It is best to invite them to forums, hear > them out, and then correct them. No - the community has better things to do. If they want a debate, NY Fair Use can sponsor one for them. > Showing people how Microsoft is wrong -- That's also a waste of time. Showing them how Free Software is right is a better use of time. They're just like North Korea. They'd do anything to gain your attention. Screwem...let them talk to the wall until they earn a place at the table. -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From dyfet at ostel.com Sun Feb 9 17:32:44 2003 From: dyfet at ostel.com (David Sugar) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:01 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [novalug] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030210010123.GA12963@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <04d301c2d09e$0b3db9c0$6500a8c0@antifreeze> <20030210010123.GA12963@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <200302092032.44622.dyfet@ostel.com> On Sunday 09 February 2003 20:01, Ruben Safir wrote: > On Sun, Feb 09, 2003 at 07:47:42PM -0500, Seth J. Blank wrote: > > What is wrong with providing Microsoft a place to speak in an open source > > forum? > > What's wrong with excluding them. Their not relevent to the conference > and have nothing to contribute. > > > Aside from not wanting to sink to their level and silence opposing views > > (remember, open source is about the inclusion of ideas, not their > > exclusion), let us consider what would happen if Microsoft spoke. > > Open Source is not silensing them just because they're not qualified > to present at the conference. Open Source is just making responsible > decisions on how to use our limited resources. They can and do talk all > the time. > > > It seems to me that there are only two outcomes of Microsoft speaking, > > namely that they would make fools of themselves, or that people would buy > > into their FUD. > > > > The first circumstance, while welcome, would probably not happen. So > > let's concentrate on people buying into MS's FUD. > > It's a waste of precious resources to fight MS FUD in an event designed to > market Free Software to governments. And therefor, MS should be excluded. > > > If the members of the forum > > cannot contradict Microsoft and allay people's fears, then perhaps the > > open source movement has more to worry about than Microsoft speaking in > > one of their forums. > > > > Also, your assertion that Microsoft is evil and should be shunned at any > > computer forum in general is unfounded and irrelevant. > > Actually, it would be more correct to charactorize MS as evil than pretend > they are a responsible corperate citizen. > > MS has been convicted TWICE for antitrust activity, and has thwarted > economic developement. They have inihibited community developement with > their monopolistic activities, and is working on DRM which would end Free > Software on the Intel platform. They have repeatedly twarted peoples right > to innovate, and start witch hunts with the BSA. > > How else can they be described better than Evil? > > Is Criminal and Anti-Social a better description? > > > Idealistic, but > > irrelevant. Microsoft isn't going anywhere, and ignoring it or calling it > > names does nothing to change this. > > Ignoring them is fine. It's the best tactic. Let MS rail away but they > should have no position in a Free Software event of any kind. > > > It is best to invite them to forums, hear > > them out, and then correct them. > > No - the community has better things to do. If they want a debate, NY Fair > Use can sponsor one for them. > > > Showing people how Microsoft is wrong -- > > That's also a waste of time. Showing them how Free Software is right is > a better use of time. They're just like North Korea. They'd do anything > to gain your attention. Screwem...let them talk to the wall until they > earn a place at the table. From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Sun Feb 9 17:41:19 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:01 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [novalug] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030210014119.GA13322@www2.mrbrklyn.com> > When someone says something that you don't like you can either censor them to > stop them from saying it or have increased discussion about what was said so > that the truth about it can come through. > No I'm sorry but you are wrong on all the points. First of all, it is not censorship to select a better vendor to discuss the importance of the government to use Free Software. It's not an issue that Microsoft might say somethign you don't like. It is an issue is a not a player in the Free Software business world, and that they have acted repeatedly in an anticompetitive way, often criminally. In addition, this conference is not a debate, but a presentation on Open Sourced and Free Software oppurtunities for governments. > I don't see how pretending that Microsoft doesn't exist on a selective basis > is going to further anything. Pretending that Microsoft is a player in the Open Source market is not furthing anything. Allowing them to speak serves no purpose at this conference, since they are not a free Software or Open Source company. In fact, they clearly say this in the Orielly Article by there 'Shared Source' marketing executive. Nobody is preventing them from buying a ticket, just like anyone else in the public and attending the confernce. They should not be given preferential treatment and be sat on a pannel with real Free Software vendors. > > There will always be some clueless people that go to tradeshows and fall for > the marketing and propaganda of various vendors. Microsoft clearly knows this > and is attempting to get everyone with it. > So? More the reason not to include them. They are attempting to confuse the issues and the points. > But their presence is also a tremendously appropriate context for people that > don't know any better to ask "What do you think of the Microsoft products in > booth 13?" At that point you've got the exact venue and audience to address > Microsoft's evils. > Are there boths? They shouldn't have a booth either since they are not a Free Software vendor. You do not make any reasonable arguement for saying, "But their presence is also a tremendously appropriate context". In this context, they're presense is inappropiate. Tyson Chickens would have more to contribute than Microsoft. > The audience is listening, they're interested and you have to be optimistic > and respectful that they'll be able to figure out who is telling the truth. There is no basis for a positive outcome or optimism. MS's ability to confuse users and purchases is consistant, broad and proven. In addition, they're an illegal monopoly. As such, it is morally impertitive for Open Source and Free Software community to not injure the public more by giving MS a platform. > > If you really want to do what is right, then *compete* on software products, > customer support, pro-consumer licensing and beat Microsoft on all the things > that are supposed to count. > Competeing on products is only PART of the reason why it is important for Government to adopt Free Software. There is also a political component which becomes harder to understand when MS is oscuring the arguments with its marketing department. In addition, the best way for FS vendors to compete is to keep the program clean from MS PR. They can buy another TV canpain. You should read the Feb 17th issue of Forbes magazine on China and MS. The Article on page 78 outlines how China had curbed Microsofts aggreesssive and anti-competitive behavior by refusing to conceed to them when they mis-behave. The 'Shared Source' campain by MS is such a misbehavior and it is most important to learn from the Chinese and not reward MS for bad behavior. Ruben -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From recullen at cox.net Sun Feb 9 17:44:33 2003 From: recullen at cox.net (Robert Cullen) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:01 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: Re: [novalug] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference Message-ID: <20030210014431.EPXM25507.lakemtao08.cox.net@smtp.central.cox.net> Billy, I about fell out of my chair @ the "inviting a pedophile to a day care center for milk and cookies..." Too funny... Most of you have probably seen this image, but it's funny all the same: http://www.kmfms.com/ Robert > > From: billy ball > Date: 2003/02/09 Sun PM 06:31:22 EST > To: Bruce Perens > CC: fairuse@mrbrklyn.com, , , > , , > , > Subject: Re: [novalug] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference > > > sorry, but since this was posted to novalug, i feel compelled to reply... > > /RANT ON > the idea to give any representative from Microsoft a place in any > open software forum is total crap to me... just my opinion of course, as i > don't tout myself as a spokesperson for open source, free software, Linux, > etc. > > Microsoft is an EVIL corporation with no soul, no remorse for its past > (and current actions), and will not hesitate to use any means at its > disposal to crush competition, push its agendas, and subvert established > 'standards' and protocols (if there are such things) - even if such > actions exceed the boundaries of legal business practice (in the U.S. > or anywhere in the world)... > > Microsoft should be shunned at any professional computing forum for its > actions and behavior... > > is the company a business? yes. does the company follow its own profit > paradigm? yes. > > but there are ways of doing business and ways of doing business (some may > argue this point, but why else have state-enforced regulations?) > > do i think employees of Microsoft are bad people? certainly not... > > but Microsoft has not proven its worth in the open source community as a > good citizen, and allowing any representative a voice in an open source > forum would be like inviting a pedophile to a day care center for milk and > cookies... > /RANT OFF > > > On Sat, 8 Feb 2003, Bruce Perens wrote: > > > Reuben, > > > > People who promote Freedom would allow everyone a chance to speak. > > It's a totalitarian tactic to silence the opposing view. > > > > In a conference with over 100 talks, predominantly from friends of Free > > Software, to simply not allow Microsoft to have their say at all would > > be to brand ourselves as enemies of free speech, and to destroy our > > own credibility by putting on an exclusively one-sided program. This > > would absolutely not be in keeping with the ethos of the Free Software > > movement. I remain concerned that your efforts to protect others from > > hearing Microsoft's distorted version of reality will do the Free Software > > movement damage while promoting Microsoft's cause. > > > > I've been a witness to this sort of thing before. Richard Stallman and I > > spoke at the CODE conference in Cambridge England a few years ago. Richard > > was given an hour, I think, for his speech. Sometime afterward, there was > > a panel including myself and several other speakers. One of the speakers > > said something mildly sympathetic to the patent system, and Richard, > > in the audience, lost control and started shouting at the fellow. It was > > clear that Richard did _not_ gain the sympathy of the audience, and in > > fact blew whatever credibility he had built during his own talk. After > > getting the program back on its feet as best I could, which involved > > Richard storming out of the room in offense, I caught him outside. > > Richard was in tears because it was clear that he hadn't gotten his > > message across by shouting from the audience, and had indeed hurt his > > own argument. This is exactly the sort of behavior I see you heading > > towards - perhaps minus the tears. > > > > A year afterward, at another forum in Washington D.C., I sat next to > > Richard for half a day day just to help him keep control while the bad > > folks spoke, and to ask calm questions in his stead. He would have lost > > it again, and lost his credibility a second time, had he confronted the > > speakers directly - and he pointed that out afterward. > > > > The bottom line is that we gain nothing by sounding shrill. And the sort > > of tactics you're considering would do that. > > > > You accused Tony Stanco of taking a bribe in order to include > > Microsoft in the conference. Or if he didn't take a bribe, you say he's > > doing that for "self promotion". I don't see what self-promoting effect > > Microsoft's presence would have. I also don't see that there would have > > been a need for a bribe to get MS on a speaking program. It's > > self-destructive of our movement, for you to have made that suggestion when > > you know full well that Tony puts in many hours to promote Free Software, > > and has spoken internationally as a representative of FSF. > > > > Regarding giving you a talk and David Sugar the keynote, or vice versa. > > In the track where Matusow speaks, we have Mike Tiemann, Whitfield Diffie, > > and about 10 other folks who will make it clear that they don't buy > > the Microsoft line. I have to ask: Did you folks submit any papers? I > > submitted one and got it accepted. And I am reading down the list of > > speakers now, and it's a veritable Who's Who of people who promote Free > > Software in government. You may not know many of these people, but I > > have been working with many of them in various government presentations > > and I can vouch for them. I think that you and David could take your > > place among the fifty or so Free Software evangelists who are speaking > > and do a credible job. I don't see that you are offering more than they > > do. I may still be able to get you included in the program, but I don't > > see that it will make a very big difference over the folks who are > > already there. Don't ask for the keynote - that's not for either you or > > Microsoft. > > > > Thanks > > > > Bruce > > _______________________________________________ > > novalug mailing list > > novalug@tux.org > > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > > > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Sun Feb 9 17:47:49 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:01 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [Marketing] Re: [novalug] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: References: <20030210010123.GA12963@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030210014749.GB13322@www2.mrbrklyn.com> On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 02:38:47AM +0100, Claus S?rensen wrote: > > On Sun, 9 Feb 2003, Ruben Safir wrote: > > > What's wrong with excluding them. Their not relevent to the conference > > and have nothing to contribute. > > Microsoft is an important producent for the governments. Most of them have > their current infrastructure running on a Microsoft platform. But that doesn't qualifiy them for speakers at the conference. Their still not relevant to the conference. > > Now Microsoft has given the governments the offer to see their source like > the open source software they are afraid the governments will use instead. That's their problem. They can run a confernece. > > Then we have to tell the government representives that this isn't Open > Source or Free Software just because they access to the source code. > That will happen, but again, thatdoesn't make MS relevant to the conference. We can talk about the problem of 'Shared Sorce" without MS's help. > And it will be best if the representives can hear Microsoft confirm what > we (the Free Software and Open Source community) are saying about Shared > Source. And at the same time tell them what Microsoft is saying about > GPL and Free Software is not correct. > There is no need for this. Your wanting to rewoard them with a chair at the table because they created a scam. There is no need. -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From sherer at fsmlabs.com Sun Feb 9 18:01:02 2003 From: sherer at fsmlabs.com (sherer@fsmlabs.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:01 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [novalug] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030210010123.GA12963@www2.mrbrklyn.com>; from ruben@mrbrklyn.com on Sun, Feb 09, 2003 at 08:01:23PM -0500 References: <04d301c2d09e$0b3db9c0$6500a8c0@antifreeze> <20030210010123.GA12963@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030209190102.B9876@hq.fsmlabs.com> Ruben Safir (ruben@mrbrklyn.com) wrote: > On Sun, Feb 09, 2003 at 07:47:42PM -0500, Seth J. Blank wrote: > > What is wrong with providing Microsoft a place to speak in an open source > > forum? > > > What's wrong with excluding them. Their not relevent to the conference > and have nothing to contribute. Depends on your view. Welcome to the bazaar. > > > It is best to invite them to forums, hear > > them out, and then correct them. > > No - the community has better things to do. If they want a debate, NY Fair Use > can sponsor one for them. Really? Please, go do it. I hope this is not it. -- Matt Sherer FSMLabs, Inc. http://www.fsmlabs.com/ From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Sun Feb 9 18:31:34 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:01 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [novalug] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <04f101c2d0aa$a5bf7180$6500a8c0@antifreeze> References: <04d301c2d09e$0b3db9c0$6500a8c0@antifreeze> <20030210010123.GA12963@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <04f101c2d0aa$a5bf7180$6500a8c0@antifreeze> Message-ID: <20030210023134.GA14306@www2.mrbrklyn.com> > > > > What's wrong with excluding them. Their not relevent to the conference > > and have nothing to contribute. > > > > Not relevant? Hardly. If they were irrelevant, there'd be no issue to > discuss. The are irrelevant. And because we're discussing the issue of MS being invited doesn't make them any more relavent. Their not an Open Source company...they are NOT relevant to this conference. They are taking someone elses time away and they ARE disrupting the conference from it's stated goals. Aside from their expressed purose of disturbing the conference there is nothing they can possibly contribute to the goals of the Conference. > The problem is that you don't like what you know they're going to > say. And I agree with you 100%. I just think it is more important to let > them speak and to demonstrate to people how full of it they are. > There is no reason for them to be heard at this platfrom. In fact, It's IMORAL to let them speak since they will confuse the public. > > on how to use our limited resources. They can and do talk all the time. > > > > This is your _only_ valid point. This is the ONLY point that matters. > > I never said they were a responsible corporate citizen. I said ignoring or > marginalizing them would be a _severe_ mistake. Well, you haven't made an persusive argement to back that up besides restating it. Obviously we have limited resources and havce the right to choose who would be best at reaching the goals of marketing FS to the Government, and Obviously MS is not a positive contributer in this regard, so there is no reason for them to be given a seat. If they have questions for the panel, you can register with the rest of the public. Ruben > Again, I never said they weren't evil. In fact, I think I agreed that they > were. What I said was that characterising them as evil and calling them > names is not productive, Lieing to the public is not productive. If their evil, say so. > > have no position in a Free Software event of any kind. > > > > No, open source must respond to Microsoft, No it MUSTENT do anything. It's not in our best interest to respond with them at all. It's in our best interest to make our points without being drawn into a length debate with them. > > Showing them that Free Software is right includes showing them how it is > better (or more right) than the alternatives. Ummm No Although it might be helpful at times to point out how alternatives can damage the public, there is no reason to have a running fued is any particular firm, especially one a evil as Microsoft. Free Softwares benifits stand on their own two feet. Ruben -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From jdub at perkypants.org Sun Feb 9 18:40:18 2003 From: jdub at perkypants.org (Jeff Waugh) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:01 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030208180229.A19035@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209020631.8986A4F48@perens.com> <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030210024018.GA2807@lazarus> > Honestly, If Tony Stanco wants to do some good for Free Software, instead > of inviting MicroNuts to a conference that markets Free Software, he can > help the FSCC learn to get some damn contracts through FedBizops so we can > make the case outselfves directly to the Bueracrats. Ruben, dude. Sit back from the crackpipe for a moment and look at this: http://www.noie.gov.au/projects/egovernment/Better_Infrastructure/OSS/oss_seminars.htm This is a set of seminars coming up at the end of the month in Canberra, the capital city of Australia, to discuss government use of Open Source s/ware. It's organised by the 'National Office for the Information Economy', which is basically a stupid right-wing government name for "some dudes who know nothing about IT who get to recommend what we do". IBM and Microsoft lobbied very hard to have a place at the conference. You can see that IBM is opening the content, Microsoft is speaking second, and the Australian Unix Users Group (an organisation mostly for professionals in the *nix space, which has fairly recently started grokking Free Software) is speaking third. After that, there will be some cast studies and panel discussions. Usual government seminar fare. Now, we had a bunch of noob journos make a big fuss about this, as well as Sun, who didn't actually do much lobbying/work to be involved. In both cases, it was mostly sour grapes. But the fact is, having Microsoft at these gigs is great. They're going to jump up and talk about how "Shared Source" matters, and how they "innovate" and why their monocultured, monolithic systems are so great... Then everyone sees the alternate view, the case studies, and asks the Hard Questions. Everyone is suspicious of Microsoft now, but their products are still seen as 'safe bets'. All we need to talk about is the alternatives, why Open Source and Free Software make *real* progress and help *real* people. They can't fight us on those issues. We don't have to silence or crush Microsoft to succeed, Ruben. We just have to trust and rely on - and clearly advocate - our own merits. - Jeff -- "The ability to procrastinate is what separates us from the machines." - Chris Gregory, Desktop Magazine From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Sun Feb 9 18:46:35 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:01 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030210024018.GA2807@lazarus> References: <20030208180229.A19035@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209020631.8986A4F48@perens.com> <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030210024018.GA2807@lazarus> Message-ID: <20030210024635.GC14306@www2.mrbrklyn.com> > > But the fact is, having Microsoft at these gigs is great. The fact is it sucks because to takes attension for real Free Software Vendors in getting government WORK. That time is time where they get to Market to the Government, earn HONEST income, and feed the families. So it sucks that the Ausies have so short thrifted your local FS communty and religated them to the Peanut Gallery, while giving a criminal organzaition which oppsoes their betterment and civil rights the red carpet. I have some Klu Klux Clansmen I can send you if you want to really stir things up. Ruben -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Sun Feb 9 18:47:21 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:01 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030210024635.GC14306@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030208180229.A19035@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209020631.8986A4F48@perens.com> <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030210024018.GA2807@lazarus> <20030210024635.GC14306@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030210024721.GD14306@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Or better!! I'll send you reverand Al On Sun, Feb 09, 2003 at 09:46:35PM -0500, Ruben Safir wrote: > > > > But the fact is, having Microsoft at these gigs is great. > > > The fact is it sucks because to takes attension for real Free Software > Vendors in getting government WORK. > > That time is time where they get to Market to the Government, earn HONEST > income, and feed the families. > > So it sucks that the Ausies have so short thrifted your local FS communty > and religated them to the Peanut Gallery, while giving a criminal organzaition > which oppsoes their betterment and civil rights the red carpet. > > I have some Klu Klux Clansmen I can send you if you want to really stir things > up. > > Ruben > > > -- > __________________________ > Brooklyn Linux Solutions > __________________________ > DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com > > http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting > http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients > http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software > http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net > http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... > > 1-718-382-0585 -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From nylxsdoer at nyc.rr.com Sun Feb 9 20:58:40 2003 From: nylxsdoer at nyc.rr.com (rc) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:01 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [novalug] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030210010123.GA12963@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <04d301c2d09e$0b3db9c0$6500a8c0@antifreeze> <20030210010123.GA12963@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <200302092358.40901.nylxsdoer@nyc.rr.com> Being that this is a Marketing forum for Free Software intended to Procure future Sales of good and services supplied by FS/OS companies, having Microsoft there in any official function (anything more than an exhibit spectator) is as Logical as-- M$ inviting a FS rep to accompany them on a sales pitch. Absolutely Laughable Why would anyone Let the competition sit in on marketing and sales meetings/pitches with a potential customer??? Seems ludacris to me. If you want to take the high road with MS just "respectfully decline" their request to: listen in on our strategic sales pitches and strategy discussions, dilute our networking and relationship building opportunities (with our largest potential customer/market), and take insight on their number one threat. They have plenty of chances to tell their story. This is supposed to be about Free and Open software good and services in government. If they are so interested, tell them to buy a ticket. --just my 2.5 cents ~rc On Sunday 09 February 2003 08:01 pm, Ruben Safir wrote: > On Sun, Feb 09, 2003 at 07:47:42PM -0500, Seth J. Blank wrote: > > What is wrong with providing Microsoft a place to speak in an open > > source forum? > > What's wrong with excluding them. Their not relevent to the > conference and have nothing to contribute. > > > Aside from not wanting to sink to their level and silence opposing > > views (remember, open source is about the inclusion of ideas, not > > their exclusion), let us consider what would happen if Microsoft > > spoke. > > Open Source is not silensing them just because they're not qualified > to present at the conference. Open Source is just making responsible > decisions on how to use our limited resources. They can and do talk > all the time. > > > It seems to me that there are only two outcomes of Microsoft > > speaking, namely that they would make fools of themselves, or that > > people would buy into their FUD. > > > > The first circumstance, while welcome, would probably not happen. > > So let's concentrate on people buying into MS's FUD. > > It's a waste of precious resources to fight MS FUD in an event > designed to market Free Software to governments. And therefor, MS > should be excluded. > > > If the members of the forum > > cannot contradict Microsoft and allay people's fears, then perhaps > > the open source movement has more to worry about than Microsoft > > speaking in one of their forums. > > > > Also, your assertion that Microsoft is evil and should be shunned > > at any computer forum in general is unfounded and irrelevant. > > Actually, it would be more correct to charactorize MS as evil than > pretend they are a responsible corperate citizen. > > MS has been convicted TWICE for antitrust activity, and has thwarted > economic developement. They have inihibited community developement > with their monopolistic activities, and is working on DRM which would > end Free Software on the Intel platform. They have repeatedly > twarted peoples right to innovate, and start witch hunts with the > BSA. > > How else can they be described better than Evil? > > Is Criminal and Anti-Social a better description? > > > Idealistic, but > > irrelevant. Microsoft isn't going anywhere, and ignoring it or > > calling it names does nothing to change this. > > Ignoring them is fine. It's the best tactic. Let MS rail away but > they should have no position in a Free Software event of any kind. > > > It is best to invite them to forums, hear > > them out, and then correct them. > > No - the community has better things to do. If they want a debate, > NY Fair Use can sponsor one for them. > > > Showing people how Microsoft is wrong -- > > That's also a waste of time. Showing them how Free Software is right > is a better use of time. They're just like North Korea. They'd do > anything to gain your attention. Screwem...let them talk to the wall > until they earn a place at the table. -- The Microsoft Crackpipe - Everyone uses it, what harm could it be? Version: 3.12 GB/MC/MU/PA d- s+:+ a C++ L+++ P E- W+++ N++ o? K? w+ O? M? V? PS+ PE+ Y+ PGP t+ 5 X R- tv++ b++ DI D G e++ h-- r++ y+ From bruce at perens.com Sun Feb 9 21:47:06 2003 From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:01 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [novalug] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <200302092358.40901.nylxsdoer@nyc.rr.com> References: <04d301c2d09e$0b3db9c0$6500a8c0@antifreeze> <20030210010123.GA12963@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <200302092358.40901.nylxsdoer@nyc.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030210054706.GA26358@perens.com> The conference is _not_ a sales meeting for Free Software. George Washington University and a number of other organizations put it on to share best practices, raise awareness, and share experiences among policy makers in the U.S. and Europe. It's not supposed to make your conclusion for you regarding the desirability of Free Software or its lack thereof. The university, among others, would not want to become known for putting on one-sided programs. I am involved in this because I'm a senior research scientist for GWU's Cyber Security Policy Research Lab. My goal is to see that Free Software is accomodated in "Cyber Security Policy". But if I never considered other viewpoints than my own, it wouldn't be science. Thanks Bruce On Sun, Feb 09, 2003 at 11:58:40PM -0500, rc wrote: > > Being that this is a Marketing forum for Free Software intended to > Procure future Sales of good and services supplied by FS/OS companies, > having Microsoft there in any official function (anything more than an > exhibit spectator) is as Logical as-- > > M$ inviting a FS rep to accompany them on a sales pitch. > > Absolutely Laughable > > Why would anyone Let the competition sit in on marketing and sales > meetings/pitches with a potential customer??? Seems ludacris to me. > > If you want to take the high road with MS just "respectfully decline" > their request to: listen in on our strategic sales pitches and strategy > discussions, dilute our networking and relationship building > opportunities (with our largest potential customer/market), and take > insight on their number one threat. > > They have plenty of chances to tell their story. This is supposed to be > about Free and Open software good and services in government. If they > are so interested, tell them to buy a ticket. > > --just my 2.5 cents > > ~rc > > > On Sunday 09 February 2003 08:01 pm, Ruben Safir wrote: > > On Sun, Feb 09, 2003 at 07:47:42PM -0500, Seth J. Blank wrote: > > > What is wrong with providing Microsoft a place to speak in an open > > > source forum? > > > > What's wrong with excluding them. Their not relevent to the > > conference and have nothing to contribute. > > > > > Aside from not wanting to sink to their level and silence opposing > > > views (remember, open source is about the inclusion of ideas, not > > > their exclusion), let us consider what would happen if Microsoft > > > spoke. > > > > Open Source is not silensing them just because they're not qualified > > to present at the conference. Open Source is just making responsible > > decisions on how to use our limited resources. They can and do talk > > all the time. > > > > > It seems to me that there are only two outcomes of Microsoft > > > speaking, namely that they would make fools of themselves, or that > > > people would buy into their FUD. > > > > > > The first circumstance, while welcome, would probably not happen. > > > So let's concentrate on people buying into MS's FUD. > > > > It's a waste of precious resources to fight MS FUD in an event > > designed to market Free Software to governments. And therefor, MS > > should be excluded. > > > > > If the members of the forum > > > cannot contradict Microsoft and allay people's fears, then perhaps > > > the open source movement has more to worry about than Microsoft > > > speaking in one of their forums. > > > > > > Also, your assertion that Microsoft is evil and should be shunned > > > at any computer forum in general is unfounded and irrelevant. > > > > Actually, it would be more correct to charactorize MS as evil than > > pretend they are a responsible corperate citizen. > > > > MS has been convicted TWICE for antitrust activity, and has thwarted > > economic developement. They have inihibited community developement > > with their monopolistic activities, and is working on DRM which would > > end Free Software on the Intel platform. They have repeatedly > > twarted peoples right to innovate, and start witch hunts with the > > BSA. > > > > How else can they be described better than Evil? > > > > Is Criminal and Anti-Social a better description? > > > > > Idealistic, but > > > irrelevant. Microsoft isn't going anywhere, and ignoring it or > > > calling it names does nothing to change this. > > > > Ignoring them is fine. It's the best tactic. Let MS rail away but > > they should have no position in a Free Software event of any kind. > > > > > It is best to invite them to forums, hear > > > them out, and then correct them. > > > > No - the community has better things to do. If they want a debate, > > NY Fair Use can sponsor one for them. > > > > > Showing people how Microsoft is wrong -- > > > > That's also a waste of time. Showing them how Free Software is right > > is a better use of time. They're just like North Korea. They'd do > > anything to gain your attention. Screwem...let them talk to the wall > > until they earn a place at the table. > > -- > The Microsoft Crackpipe - Everyone uses it, what harm could it be? > > Version: 3.12 > GB/MC/MU/PA d- s+:+ a C++ L+++ P E- W+++ N++ o? K? w+ O? M? V? PS+ PE+ > Y+ PGP t+ 5 X R- tv++ b++ DI D G e++ h-- r++ y+ From nick at zork.net Sun Feb 9 22:05:56 2003 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:01 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification] Message-ID: <20030210060556.GA30751@zork.net> Looks like ruben's supporters and detractors are flocking in now. ----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net ----- elliot@bentlogic.net has been successfully subscribed to CrackMonkey. ----- End forwarded message ----- From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Sun Feb 9 22:57:02 2003 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (J. M. Brenner) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:02 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: Message from Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco of "Sat, 08 Feb 2003 23:38:03 PST." <20030209073803.GH30751@zork.net> References: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209044353.9ED614F46@perens.com> <20030209002236.C30383@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209023213.A31691@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209073803.GH30751@zork.net> Message-ID: <200302100657.h1A6v2062141@mail0.rawbw.com> Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote: > 78 columns, ok? We'll give you 78. Hell, anything > less than 80 would be good. Just FIX YOUR DAMN MARGINS. > Then we can move on to your signature block, and your > irritating quotation style. Yeah... I was wondering if anti-Microsoft people ever reply below the quote. From unknown at panax.com Mon Feb 10 01:42:38 2003 From: unknown at panax.com (Patrick McFarland) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:02 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [novalug] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030210054706.GA26358@perens.com> References: <04d301c2d09e$0b3db9c0$6500a8c0@antifreeze> <20030210010123.GA12963@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <200302092358.40901.nylxsdoer@nyc.rr.com> <20030210054706.GA26358@perens.com> Message-ID: <20030210094238.GA4524@panax.com> On 09-Feb-2003, Bruce Perens wrote: > The conference is _not_ a sales meeting for Free Software. Yeah, but depending on if you have RMSish people there, it might as well be. > I am involved in this because I'm a senior research scientist for GWU's > Cyber Security Policy Research Lab. My goal is to see that Free Software > is accomodated in "Cyber Security Policy". But if I never considered > other viewpoints than my own, it wouldn't be science. Fucking crackrock buzzwords ahoy! Btw, does anyone know if Bruce can be banned from this list if he doesnt reply _below_ the quotation? If not, can we make a special exception just for him? -- Patrick "Diablo-D3" McFarland || unknown@panax.com "Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989 From unknown at panax.com Mon Feb 10 01:44:21 2003 From: unknown at panax.com (Patrick McFarland) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:02 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <200302100657.h1A6v2062141@mail0.rawbw.com> References: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209044353.9ED614F46@perens.com> <20030209002236.C30383@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209023213.A31691@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209073803.GH30751@zork.net> <200302100657.h1A6v2062141@mail0.rawbw.com> Message-ID: <20030210094421.GB4524@panax.com> On 09-Feb-2003, J. M. Brenner wrote: > Yeah... I was wondering if anti-Microsoft people ever reply > below the quote. Yes, but only the lame ones dont. (Yes, Bruce, this means you.) -- Patrick "Diablo-D3" McFarland || unknown@panax.com "Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989 From jdub at perkypants.org Mon Feb 10 02:40:21 2003 From: jdub at perkypants.org (Jeff Waugh) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:02 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030210024635.GC14306@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030208180229.A19035@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209020631.8986A4F48@perens.com> <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030210024018.GA2807@lazarus> <20030210024635.GC14306@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030210104021.GJ2807@lazarus> > > But the fact is, having Microsoft at these gigs is great. > > The fact is it sucks because to takes attension for real Free Software > Vendors in getting government WORK. Not at all, Ruben! In fact, Microsoft's presence serves to highlight the real benefits of Free Software in very stark contrast to the "Microsoft Way". What better way to illustrate ones point, than to have the dominant proprietary software vendor there for the pickings? Methinks you're narrowing your focus and creativity, Ruben. > That time is time where they get to Market to the Government, earn HONEST > income, and feed the families. And you're suggesting that excluding Microsoft - the government's primary software vendor - is an honest and forthright tactic? That the Free Software vendor community is unable to take off it's collective shirt and take Microsoft on in an honourable duel? > So it sucks that the Ausies have so short thrifted your local FS communty > and religated them to the Peanut Gallery, while giving a criminal > organzaition which oppsoes their betterment and civil rights the red > carpet. No way dude, Microsoft are on early, so we can pull their tired proprietary arguments down naturally and in good time. If you don't believe you're capable of taking on Microsoft on their own turf, then you've got a very, very small market to work with. Get with the program, take reality as it is, and fight on the same terms like the rest of us... "Methinks the lady doth protest too much." - Jeff -- We're kind of like Canada, only we hate ourselves more, and it's wetter around the edges. From unknown at panax.com Mon Feb 10 04:21:07 2003 From: unknown at panax.com (Patrick McFarland) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:02 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] "Anger spews over Microsoft appearance at yet another Open Source event" Message-ID: <20030210122107.GA5608@panax.com> Bruce, Ruben: http://newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=03/02/09/2138247 -- Patrick "Diablo-D3" McFarland || unknown@panax.com "Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989 From claviola at ax.net.br Mon Feb 10 05:36:49 2003 From: claviola at ax.net.br (Carlos Laviola) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:02 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [novalug] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030210094238.GA4524@panax.com> References: <04d301c2d09e$0b3db9c0$6500a8c0@antifreeze> <20030210010123.GA12963@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <200302092358.40901.nylxsdoer@nyc.rr.com> <20030210054706.GA26358@perens.com> <20030210094238.GA4524@panax.com> Message-ID: <20030210133649.GA5416@alternex.com.br> No On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 04:42:38AM -0500, Patrick McFarland wrote: > On 09-Feb-2003, Bruce Perens wrote: > > The conference is _not_ a sales meeting for Free Software. > > Yeah, but depending on if you have RMSish people there, it might as well be. > > > I am involved in this because I'm a senior research scientist for GWU's > > Cyber Security Policy Research Lab. My goal is to see that Free Software > > is accomodated in "Cyber Security Policy". But if I never considered > > other viewpoints than my own, it wouldn't be science. > > Fucking crackrock buzzwords ahoy! > > Btw, does anyone know if Bruce can be banned from this list if he doesnt reply > _below_ the quotation? If not, can we make a special exception just for him? > > -- > Patrick "Diablo-D3" McFarland || unknown@panax.com > "Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd > all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to > repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989 > > _______________________________________________ > CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks > http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey > -- Carlos Laviola AlterNex S/A - (21) 2530-7007 From joakim at avmaria.com Mon Feb 10 05:58:00 2003 From: joakim at avmaria.com (Joakim Ziegler) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:02 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [novalug] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <200302092358.40901.nylxsdoer@nyc.rr.com> References: <04d301c2d09e$0b3db9c0$6500a8c0@antifreeze> <20030210010123.GA12963@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <200302092358.40901.nylxsdoer@nyc.rr.com> Message-ID: <1044885480.1853.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2003-02-09 at 22:58, rc wrote: > Being that this is a Marketing forum for Free Software intended to > Procure future Sales of good and services supplied by FS/OS companies, Holy shit, it is? What the hell happened to the non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks? -- The Private Joakim Ziegler - Not Speaking For Anyone But Myself joakim@avmaria.com - http://www.avmaria.com - rdgzt@Undernet http://www.avmaria.com/ - http://www.fix.no/ From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu Mon Feb 10 09:56:06 2003 From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:02 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:40:21 +1100." <20030210104021.GJ2807@lazarus> References: <20030208180229.A19035@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209020631.8986A4F48@perens.com> <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030210024018.GA2807@lazarus> <20030210024635.GC14306@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030210104021.GJ2807@lazarus> Message-ID: <200302101756.h1AHu62L003648@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:40:21 +1100, Jeff Waugh said: > And you're suggesting that excluding Microsoft - the government's primary > software vendor - is an honest and forthright tactic? That the Free Software > vendor community is unable to take off it's collective shirt and take > Microsoft on in an honourable duel? Of course, if Microsoft could be trusted to participate in a duel honorably, this entire conference would be unneeded. From crackdonkey at donkeyshow.org Mon Feb 10 10:24:30 2003 From: crackdonkey at donkeyshow.org (#2 of Berkeley) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:02 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030208231927.A25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Feb 2003, Ruben I Safir wrote: > I not alright. > > I'm sick of everyone treating Microsoft like it's some freaken > innocent little girl just trying to make its way in the world when I > have unemployed and talented people here in NY in a pick fork battle > with all the marbles on the table trying to beat off their vendictive > anti-competitive behavior. Silly Safir, you're never gonna be able to pick up all those marbles with a pick[sic] fork. You'd have better luck with your hands. Although all that beating off might make you want to wear some globes. Vendictive[sic] anti-competitive behavior won't just go away through masturbation, no matter how hard you try to fantasize about innocent little girls. From dep at linuxandmain.com Mon Feb 10 10:30:04 2003 From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:02 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] dude, you're gettin' a doobie Message-ID: <200302101330.05079.dep@linuxandmain.com> Hey, dude, you're getting a cell! Benjamin Curtis, the 22-year old actor who portrays the Dell Guy in those bothersome computer commercials, was arrested late last night (2/9) on a marijuana possession charge, The Smoking Gun has learned. According to cops, Curtis was holding a "small bag of marijuana" when he was popped on Manhattan's Lower East Side (at Ludlow and Rivington for you Gothamites). Curtis is currently being held in Central Booking and is scheduled to be arraigned later today in Manhattan Criminal Court. Curtis, who lives in lower Manhattan, was charged with criminal possession of marijuana, a misdemeanor. Bonnie Shumofsky, the actor's agent, said she was unaware of her client's bust when contacted this morning by TSG. http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/delldude1.html -- dep http://www.linuxandmain.com -- outside the box, barely within the envelope, and no animated paperclip anywhere. From vipvop-cm at musesick.org Mon Feb 10 10:58:19 2003 From: vipvop-cm at musesick.org (MC MeatFlaps) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:02 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] dude, you're gettin' a doobie In-Reply-To: <200302101330.05079.dep@linuxandmain.com> References: <200302101330.05079.dep@linuxandmain.com> Message-ID: <20030210185819.GA27449@gregh.ilan.cogent.net> On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 01:30:04PM -0500, dep wrote: > Hey, dude, you're getting a cell! Benjamin Curtis, the 22-year old > actor who portrays the Dell Guy in those bothersome computer > commercials, was arrested late last night (2/9) on a marijuana > possession charge, The Smoking Gun has learned. According to cops, > Curtis was holding a "small bag of marijuana" when he was popped on > Manhattan's Lower East Side (at Ludlow and Rivington for you > Gothamites). Curtis is currently being held in Central Booking and is > scheduled to be arraigned later today in Manhattan Criminal Court. > Curtis, who lives in lower Manhattan, was charged with criminal > possession of marijuana, a misdemeanor. Bonnie Shumofsky, the actor's > agent, said she was unaware of her client's bust when contacted this > morning by TSG. Is it just California that won't fuck with you for possession (of under an oz)? You'd think New York would have gotten over it by now and would just give out tickets... From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu Mon Feb 10 11:20:25 2003 From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian Danger Hicks) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:02 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [novalug] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <1044885480.1853.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <04d301c2d09e$0b3db9c0$6500a8c0@antifreeze> <20030210010123.GA12963@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <200302092358.40901.nylxsdoer@nyc.rr.com> <1044885480.1853.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20030210192025.GA30538@8ball.wox.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 commence Joakim Ziegler quotation: > Holy shit, it is? What the hell happened to the non-sequitur arguments > and ad-hominem personal attacks? This thread is pretty much a lost cause. I mean, it's Rubn! The man can't handle an exclaimation point, much less an ad-hominem attack. - -- Brian Hicks -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+R/t3jLHcIq3dHxYRAtN5AKCHyN8oHDMQWmn64abBmpBpM5KW4ACfUM8F cfmCqDFMbiCcGTMEwJ5a5y8= =mSoJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From joseph at nuasis.com Mon Feb 10 11:33:18 2003 From: joseph at nuasis.com (joseph@nuasis.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:02 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030210004114.GA12670@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209044353.9ED614F46@perens.com> <20030210004114.GA12670@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <3E47FE7E.8070402@nuasis.com> Ruben Safir wrote: >>>He endears me more, everytime I meet him. >>> >>> >>It's probably mutual. Remember that "poleaxe" quote? >> >>It's your tactics. I'm absolutely sure. >> >> >> >It was completely not my tactics. > Oh. Well maybe it was the speeling? It was probably the speeling. Yep. From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Mon Feb 10 12:16:08 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:03 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] dude, you're gettin' a doobie In-Reply-To: <200302101330.05079.dep@linuxandmain.com> References: <200302101330.05079.dep@linuxandmain.com> Message-ID: <20030210201608.GA20623@localhost.localdomain> FREE THE HEY DUDE YOU'RE GETTING A DELL ONE! -- Bob Bernstein From anewton at ecotroph.net Mon Feb 10 07:18:00 2003 From: anewton at ecotroph.net (Andrew Newton) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:03 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [novalug] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E47C2A8.40304@ecotroph.net> billy ball wrote: > sorry, but since this was posted to novalug, i feel compelled to reply... Well, I guess I can use that excuse too. I happen to agree with Bruce on this. Despite their shoddy products and bad business practices, MS is a very major force in the IT industry. If you want to win over the people who haven't made up their mind, excluding MS isn't gonna make your arguments look like they can stand up to scrutiny. And they can, so why risk the adverse appearance. This is a bit like politics. You aren't gonna win the swing voters if you are not willing to face-off in an open debate. -andy -- Andrew Newton Act now, before the universe implodes! http://zak.ecotroph.net/pea From nick at zork.net Mon Feb 10 12:32:46 2003 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:03 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification] Message-ID: <20030210203246.GD30751@zork.net> Woo woo more rubn groupees. ----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net ----- jrenken@sandwich.net has been successfully subscribed to CrackMonkey. ----- End forwarded message ----- From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Mon Feb 10 12:34:45 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:03 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Fwd: Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference [ruben@mrbrklyn.com] In-Reply-To: <20030210153343.M5432@www2.mrbrklyn.com>; from ruben@mrbrklyn.com on Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 15:33:43 -0500 References: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209044353.9ED614F46@perens.com> <20030210153343.M5432@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030210153445.O5432@www2.mrbrklyn.com> On 2003.02.10 15:33 Ruben I Safir wrote: For all the useless words about the need to promote Free Speach at this event, and Let Microsoft on the Panel, the Novalog administrators have stifled this discusion on the DC Mailing List. Only Microsoft and people who AGREE with you are allowed to have Free Speach. What hypocracy. I have great faith in a movement lead by such standup citizens of the union! Which is it Bruce? Are the in their rights or not? ________________________________________________________________________ Your request to the novalug mailing list Posting of your message titled "Re: [hangout] Simplicity" has been rejected by the list moderator. The moderator gave the following reason for rejecting your request: "You are forbidden from posting messages to this list." Any questions or comments should be directed to the list administrator at: novalug-admin@tux.org _________________________________________________________________________ Ruben On 2003.02.08 23:43 Bruce Perens wrote: > > From: Ruben I Safir > > Honestly, If Tony Stanco wants to do some good for Free Software, > > instead of inviting MicroNuts to a conference that markets Free Software, > > he can help the FSCC learn to get some damn contracts through FedBizops so > > we can make the case outselfves directly to the Bueracrats. > > He helps me to get federal grant work promoting Free Software. > > > He endears me more, everytime I meet him. > > It's probably mutual. Remember that "poleaxe" quote? > > It's your tactics. I'm absolutely sure. > > Thanks > > Bruce > > To stop the messages from coming see http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/appl/fairuse/gone.html > ____________________________ > New Yorkers for Fair Use - > because it's either fair use or useless.... > -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From crackdonkey at donkeyshow.org Mon Feb 10 13:04:30 2003 From: crackdonkey at donkeyshow.org (#2 of Berkeley) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:03 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Fwd: Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference [ruben@mrbrklyn.com] In-Reply-To: <20030210153445.O5432@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Ruben I Safir wrote: > Only Microsoft and people who AGREE with you are allowed to > have Free Speach. Rubn, I think you would benefit greatly from Microsoft tools. You obviously are struggling in your efforts to create a coherent email with your current MUA, and I think Microsoft can help. Microsoft Outlook provides an easy-to-use GUI with a great deal of features that would benefit you directly, such as spell checking and paragraph formatting. Perhaps Balsa has these features, I don't know. Apparently you don't either. Microsoft has a really easy learning curve, so you should be composing well-formatted, legible, and spelling-error-free emails in no time! Good luck, Rubn! P.S. here's an URL for Outlook, in case you need to learn more: http://www.microsoft.com/office/outlook/default.asp From novalug-admin at tux.org Mon Feb 10 13:07:22 2003 From: novalug-admin at tux.org (novalug-admin@tux.org) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:03 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030210153343.M5432@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209044353.9ED614F46@perens.com> <20030210153343.M5432@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030210210721.GA7605@pryzby.org> First, we are NOT the DC LUG. That is ... surprise, DCLUG@tux.org. We are in Northern Virginia which is a suburb of DC. Our meeting take place about 30 miles from the city fwiw. You have not be stifled, but you have been moderated. The messages are sitting in a queue. To post to the list, you must be a member, which you are. However all the corssposts and responses are from people who ARE not on the list, so the discussion is rather one-sided. How we ended up on this massive cross-posting in unknown to me. We do not have anything to do with Tony Stanco or the conference. We are simply geographically close. As the owners of the list we received a number of complaints (over 5% of the subscribers) that is unsurpassed in our history of over 9 years. The NOVALUG list (for the most part) has not taken to your trolling, yet we are still on the crosspost and have to endure this inane conversation. You don't like what Tony did. He doesn't agree with you. Take it up with him. Bitching to us won't change a thing. Matter of fact it simply makes his case better as he doesn't whine to the world about how unfair it is. You don't like it, protest the conference. Go and make your voice heard. Bitching to people who have no ties to the conference or can change the agenda does nothing except maybe give you some sort of high. You are the only person in the history of the list that I have had to do this to. This saddens me that I feel compelled to moderate this. In the past the trolls move on rather quickly. On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 03:33:43PM -0500, Ruben I Safir wrote: > For all the useless words about the need to promote Free Speach at this > event, and Let Microsoft on the Panel, the Novalog administrators > have stifled this discusion on the DC Mailing List. > > Only Microsoft and people who AGREE with you are allowed to > have Free Speach. > > > What hypocracy. > > > I have great faith in a movement lead by such standup citizens of > the union! > > Which is it Bruce? Are the in their rights or not? > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Your request to the novalug mailing list > > Posting of your message titled "Re: [hangout] Simplicity" > > has been rejected by the list moderator. The moderator gave the > following reason for rejecting your request: > > "You are forbidden from posting messages to this list." > > Any questions or comments should be directed to the list administrator > at: > > novalug-admin@tux.org > > _________________________________________________________________________ > Ruben > > > > On 2003.02.08 23:43 Bruce Perens wrote: > > > > From: Ruben I Safir > > > Honestly, If Tony Stanco wants to do some good for Free Software, > > > instead of inviting MicroNuts to a conference that markets Free Software, > > > he can help the FSCC learn to get some damn contracts through FedBizops so > > > we can make the case outselfves directly to the Bueracrats. > > > > He helps me to get federal grant work promoting Free Software. > > > > > He endears me more, everytime I meet him. > > > > It's probably mutual. Remember that "poleaxe" quote? > > > > It's your tactics. I'm absolutely sure. > > > > Thanks > > > > Bruce > > > > To stop the messages from coming see http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/appl/fairuse/gone.html > > ____________________________ > > New Yorkers for Fair Use - > > because it's either fair use or useless.... > > > -- > __________________________ > Brooklyn Linux Solutions > __________________________ > DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com > > http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting > http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients > http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software > http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net > http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... > > 1-718-382-0585 -- greg pryzby greg at pryzby dot org ach tee tee pee colon slash slash pryzby dot org slash fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F From jpmcc at users.sf.net Mon Feb 10 13:24:24 2003 From: jpmcc at users.sf.net (John McCreesh) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:03 2005 Subject: [Marketing] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: References: <20030210024635.GC14306@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030210212424.686f0b09.jpmcc@users.sf.net> On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:23:27 +0100 (CET) Claus wrote: > On Sun, 9 Feb 2003, Ruben Safir wrote: > > > I have some Klu Klux Clansmen I can send you if you want to really stir things > > up. > > Doesn't this qualify as a kind of Godwin's Law: > > http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/g/Godwin_s_Law.html > In your dreams, Claus, I fear, in your dreams ... John From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Mon Feb 10 13:33:01 2003 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (J. M. Brenner) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:03 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] dude, you're gettin' a doobie In-Reply-To: Message from dep of "Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:30:04 EST." <200302101330.05079.dep@linuxandmain.com> References: <200302101330.05079.dep@linuxandmain.com> Message-ID: <200302102133.h1ALX1054395@mail0.rawbw.com> > Manhattan's Lower East Side (at Ludlow and Rivington for > you Gothamites) I always thought that Gotham was code for Chicago. It would be more like "for you Metropolitans", except that's fairly ambiguous. Metropolisians? Or ex-Metros, in my case. Possibly (ex-met ^ 3) in the case of an ex-NYer whose given up on the Mets and the Metropolitan museum. And you could make that an exponent of 4 if you hate Superman comics now. Don't mind me. Back to the intramural politics. Does anyone have any anecdotes about Linus Torvalds breaking down and crying? From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Mon Feb 10 13:35:19 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:03 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] dude, you're gettin' a doobie In-Reply-To: <200302102133.h1ALX1054395@mail0.rawbw.com> References: <200302101330.05079.dep@linuxandmain.com> <200302102133.h1ALX1054395@mail0.rawbw.com> Message-ID: <20030210213519.GE30751@zork.net> begin J. M. Brenner quotation: > > Manhattan's Lower East Side (at Ludlow and Rivington for > > you Gothamites) > > I always thought that Gotham was code for Chicago. It's the old Dutch name for Manhattan. Boy are you wrong. > Don't mind me. Ok. From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Mon Feb 10 13:39:29 2003 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (J. M. Brenner) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:03 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] dude, you're gettin' a doobie In-Reply-To: Message from Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco of "Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:35:19 PST." <20030210213519.GE30751@zork.net> References: <200302101330.05079.dep@linuxandmain.com> <200302102133.h1ALX1054395@mail0.rawbw.com> <20030210213519.GE30751@zork.net> Message-ID: <200302102139.h1ALdT056053@mail0.rawbw.com> Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote; > begin J. M. Brenner quotation: > > > Manhattan's Lower East Side (at Ludlow and Rivington for > > > you Gothamites) > > > > I always thought that Gotham was code for Chicago. > > It's the old Dutch name for Manhattan. Boy are you wrong. Goddamn. And I always thought that was "New Amsterdam" > > Don't mind me. > > Ok. Thanks. From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Mon Feb 10 13:51:03 2003 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (J. M. Brenner) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:03 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] dude, you're gettin' a doobie In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:39:29 PST." <200302102139.h1ALdT056053@mail0.rawbw.com> References: <200302101330.05079.dep@linuxandmain.com> <200302102133.h1ALX1054395@mail0.rawbw.com> <20030210213519.GE30751@zork.net> <200302102139.h1ALdT056053@mail0.rawbw.com> Message-ID: <200302102151.h1ALp4059599@mail0.rawbw.com> doom@kzsu.stanford.edu wrote: > Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco g> wrote; > > > begin J. M. Brenner quotation: > > > > > Manhattan's Lower East Side (at Ludlow and Rivington for > > > > you Gothamites) > > > > > > I always thought that Gotham was code for Chicago. > > > > It's the old Dutch name for Manhattan. Boy are you wrong. > > Goddamn. And I always thought that was "New Amsterdam" And look, over here in this glossary I found: http://www.ucalgary.ca/~scriptor/towneley/plays/prgloss.html Gotham an unidentified town in Enlgand Of course, there's also a bunch of examples of New Yorkers who seem to think that *they're* Gotham City, but they probably think that Carly Simon song is about them too. From joseph at nuasis.com Mon Feb 10 13:54:15 2003 From: joseph at nuasis.com (joseph@nuasis.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:03 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] dude, you're gettin' a doobie In-Reply-To: <200302102139.h1ALdT056053@mail0.rawbw.com> References: <200302101330.05079.dep@linuxandmain.com> <200302102133.h1ALX1054395@mail0.rawbw.com> <20030210213519.GE30751@zork.net> <200302102139.h1ALdT056053@mail0.rawbw.com> Message-ID: <3E481F87.6090804@nuasis.com> J. M. Brenner wrote: >Goddamn. And I always thought that was "New Amsterdam" > > You'r thinking of Constantinopl. P.S. Why aren't you more cool and be like a DJ at KFJC? From vpapad at cse.ogi.edu Mon Feb 10 14:00:38 2003 From: vpapad at cse.ogi.edu (Vassilis Papadimos) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:03 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] dude, you're gettin' a doobie In-Reply-To: <3E481F87.6090804@nuasis.com> References: <200302101330.05079.dep@linuxandmain.com> <200302102133.h1ALX1054395@mail0.rawbw.com> <20030210213519.GE30751@zork.net> <200302102139.h1ALdT056053@mail0.rawbw.com> <3E481F87.6090804@nuasis.com> Message-ID: <20030210220038.GA28720@king.cse.ogi.edu> On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 01:54:15PM -0800, joseph@nuasis.com wrote: > You'r thinking of Constantinopl. Constantinople is nobody's business but the Turks. Maybe the Greeks too. V. From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Mon Feb 10 14:04:38 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:03 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] dude, you're gettin' a doobie In-Reply-To: <3E481F87.6090804@nuasis.com> References: <200302101330.05079.dep@linuxandmain.com> <200302102133.h1ALX1054395@mail0.rawbw.com> <20030210213519.GE30751@zork.net> <200302102139.h1ALdT056053@mail0.rawbw.com> <3E481F87.6090804@nuasis.com> Message-ID: <20030210220438.GF30751@zork.net> begin joseph@nuasis.com quotation: > P.S. Why aren't you more cool and be like a DJ at KFJC? Ha ha KFJC! http://zork.net/~nick/ogg/freesoft.ogg From dep at linuxandmain.com Mon Feb 10 14:02:20 2003 From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:03 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] dude, you're gettin' a doobie In-Reply-To: <20030210213519.GE30751@zork.net> References: <200302101330.05079.dep@linuxandmain.com> <200302102133.h1ALX1054395@mail0.rawbw.com> <20030210213519.GE30751@zork.net> Message-ID: <200302101702.20517.dep@linuxandmain.com> begin Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco's quote: | begin J. M. Brenner quotation: | > > Manhattan's Lower East Side (at Ludlow and Rivington for | > > you Gothamites) | > | > I always thought that Gotham was code for Chicago. | | It's the old Dutch name for Manhattan. Boy are you wrong. um, no. gotham was the name given new york by washington irving; it derives from an old english tale of a town in which all the people were fools, and was long before irving considered to mean a place of stupidity. irving applied it to new york city in a humorous magazine piece. -- dep http://www.linuxandmain.com -- outside the box, barely within the envelope, and no animated paperclip anywhere. From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Mon Feb 10 14:05:32 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:03 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] dude, you're gettin' a doobie In-Reply-To: <20030210220038.GA28720@king.cse.ogi.edu> References: <200302101330.05079.dep@linuxandmain.com> <200302102133.h1ALX1054395@mail0.rawbw.com> <20030210213519.GE30751@zork.net> <200302102139.h1ALdT056053@mail0.rawbw.com> <3E481F87.6090804@nuasis.com> <20030210220038.GA28720@king.cse.ogi.edu> Message-ID: <20030210220531.GG30751@zork.net> begin Vassilis Papadimos quotation: > Constantinople is nobody's business but the Turks. Maybe the Greeks > too. And then there's the Poles, the Russians... From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Mon Feb 10 14:06:38 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:03 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030210153343.M5432@www2.mrbrklyn.com>; from ruben@mrbrklyn.com on Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 15:33:43 -0500 References: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209044353.9ED614F46@perens.com> <20030210153343.M5432@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030210170638.C7456@www2.mrbrklyn.com> AND THE BEAT GOES ON.... Do not put Criminals on the egov-OS Panel! http://news.com.com/2100-1001-983988.html?tag=fd_top A California woman is suing Microsoft, Symantec and some software retailers, claiming the companies "concocted a scheme" to mislead consumers by requiring them to consent to software licensing agreements they haven't read. The suit, filed Friday in Marin County Superior Court in San Rafael, Calif., seeks class-action status on behalf of all Californians who've bought software including Norton Antivirus 2002, Norton Systemworks and Windows XP Upgrade. Specifically, the suit, which was brought by Cathy Baker, claims that Microsoft, Symantec, CompUSA, Best Buy and other unnamed retailers don't allow people to read "shrink wrap" licenses--agreements printed inside the box or incorporated into the software itself--before they buy a product. "Defendants acted in concert and have concocted a scheme to sell consumers in the state of California software licenses in retail stores without allowing them to review the terms and conditions of such software licenses prior to sale," Ira Rothken, Baker's lawyer, wrote in the complaint. Further, the suit claims that people who don't accept the terms of the agreement cannot return software to the stores. According to the suit, Baker tried to return the Microsoft and Symantec software to CompUSA after refusing to consent to the licensing terms. However, CompUSA refused to take the software back, saying the packages had been opened, according to the suit. End-user license agreements have become a hot-button issue in the tech industry as more and more companies try to forge increasingly restrictive contracts. Some companies have tried to ban class-action lawsuits, damages or reverse engineering of their products. In one of the few cases so far to test the limits of such agreements, a judge in New York ruled last month that Network Associates could not enforce wording that prohibited reviews of its product without prior consent. Representatives from Symantec, Microsoft and Best Buy did not immediately respond to requests for comment. CompUSA executives could not be reached for comment. O From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Mon Feb 10 14:20:24 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:03 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030210170638.C7456@www2.mrbrklyn.com>; from ruben@mrbrklyn.com on Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 17:06:38 -0500 References: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209044353.9ED614F46@perens.com> <20030210153343.M5432@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030210170638.C7456@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030210172024.C7710@www2.mrbrklyn.com> On 2003.02.10 17:06 Ruben I Safir wrote: > > AND THE BEAT GOES ON.... Part II http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2130190,00.html -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Mon Feb 10 14:24:17 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:03 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030210172024.C7710@www2.mrbrklyn.com>; from ruben@mrbrklyn.com on Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 17:20:24 -0500 References: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209044353.9ED614F46@perens.com> <20030210153343.M5432@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030210170638.C7456@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030210172024.C7710@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030210172417.E7710@www2.mrbrklyn.com> And the Beat goes On and On III http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7705 TWO APPEAL ATTEMPTS AGAINST THE OUTCOME of the Microsoft antitrust case have been rejected by the judge who presided over the widely criticised settlement. Consumers for Computing Choice and Robert Litan, representing a Washington think tank, have both seen their attempts to appeal the settlement thrown out. U.S. District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly denied both motions to intervene for the purposes of appeal. In a move that will infuriate opponents of the Microsoft monopoly, the U.S. Department of Justice Antitrust Division filed a response to the petitions giving arguments as to why they should be struck down. It seems the DoJ is happy with the state of the settlement even if many of the consumers they are supposed to protect are not. From adam at flounder.net Mon Feb 10 14:15:48 2003 From: adam at flounder.net (Adam McKenna) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:03 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030210172024.C7710@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209044353.9ED614F46@perens.com> <20030210153343.M5432@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030210170638.C7456@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030210172024.C7710@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030210221548.GI26391@flounder.net> On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 05:20:24PM -0500, Ruben I Safir wrote: > Part II > http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2130190,00.html FIRST POST Seriously, what the fuck is this, slashdot digest? --Adam From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Mon Feb 10 14:50:41 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:03 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030210170638.C7456@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209044353.9ED614F46@perens.com> <20030210153343.M5432@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030210170638.C7456@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030210225041.GH30751@zork.net> [distribution snipped to ruben-run venues and crackmonkey] begin Rubn I Safir quotation: > Do not put Criminals on the egov-OS Panel! > > http://news.com.com/2100-1001-983988.html?tag=fd_top Ruben, chill out. It's a *civil* suit. This whole cross-posted charade hasn't been about microsoft or linux or GNU or anything at all appropriate for the channels you've been forwarding them to. This whole argument is all about Ruben Ruben Ruben. I'm going to say this plainly and clearly: You are a kook. Don't get me wrong. I am not making any judgements about your character or your intellect here. Nor do I mean this as a term of endearment. I mean to say that your techniques for getting your point across closely resemble those of the crackpot physicists, crystal shamans, conspiracy muckrakers, psychoanalytical hypochondriacs, and political theorists that used to grace both USENET *and* the Seattle Public Library when I was younger. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here, and assume that you're simply so passionate about your cause that you neglected a few details of the medium you're using. For starters, you had your margins set wide. I used to always be able to tell when a crazy person had sat at the typewriters at the downtown Seattle Public LIbrary, because the margins were always set to the extreme. The wastebins would have sheets of paper filled to every nook and cranny with typewritten words. The use of whitespace was minimal at best. I always assumed that this was because they lacked a sense of boundary or limitation, while it is just these sorts of limits that provide structure to communication. You've been good with the paragraphs, but you definitely had kooky margins. That's most likely an accident of your mailer's configuration, and you did fix it, so we'll just move on. Second, you've cross-posted to all of these mailing lists, most of which are uninterested in your particular shibboleth du jour. Most usenet kooks would send their missives to soc.culture.japan, sci.physics, and alt.sex.stories all at once. You'd tell the kooks "Please don't cross-post, as it's pissing everyone off.", and their only retort would amount to "But MY message is IMPORTANT!". Finally, you start off hollering and yelling, and you never stop. This is the thing that makes us all think you've gone Serder Argic on us. Most kooks would even capitalize randomly while yelling that venus needs to be made a moon of mars or something. Chill out and try to engage people more calmly. From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Mon Feb 10 14:57:45 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:03 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030210225041.GH30751@zork.net> References: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209044353.9ED614F46@perens.com> <20030210153343.M5432@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030210170638.C7456@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030210225041.GH30751@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030210225745.GA8384@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Well John Hall suggested they should Jail Gate's, and I do belive that there refusal to act on the court decision with the EULA/Windows Refund Day stuff, and other antitrust activities falls under criminal jurisdiction. This would be aside from perjury and contemmpt of court... Ruben On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 02:50:41PM -0800, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote: > > [distribution snipped to ruben-run venues and crackmonkey] > > begin Rubn I Safir quotation: > > Do not put Criminals on the egov-OS Panel! > > > > http://news.com.com/2100-1001-983988.html?tag=fd_top > > Ruben, chill out. It's a *civil* suit. > > This whole cross-posted charade hasn't been about microsoft or > linux or GNU or anything at all appropriate for the channels you've > been forwarding them to. This whole argument is all about Ruben Ruben > Ruben. Well... No... But your entitle to that opinion Mokey Mastah! > > I'm going to say this plainly and clearly: > > You are a kook. Well, here you understate my level of sociopathology. I'm too far gone to be labled a simple Kook! Sorry about the margins. I'm working on a 25 inch monitor and the client opens wide. Reuvain DelLuno > > Don't get me wrong. I am not making any judgements about your > character or your intellect here. Nor do I mean this as a term of > endearment. I mean to say that your techniques for getting your point > across closely resemble those of the crackpot physicists, crystal > shamans, conspiracy muckrakers, psychoanalytical hypochondriacs, and > political theorists that used to grace both USENET *and* the Seattle > Public Library when I was younger. > > I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here, and > assume that you're simply so passionate about your cause that you > neglected a few details of the medium you're using. > > For starters, you had your margins set wide. I used to always > be able to tell when a crazy person had sat at the typewriters at the > downtown Seattle Public LIbrary, because the margins were always set > to the extreme. The wastebins would have sheets of paper filled to > every nook and cranny with typewritten words. The use of whitespace > was minimal at best. > > I always assumed that this was because they lacked a sense of > boundary or limitation, while it is just these sorts of limits that > provide structure to communication. You've been good with the > paragraphs, but you definitely had kooky margins. That's most likely > an accident of your mailer's configuration, and you did fix it, so > we'll just move on. > > Second, you've cross-posted to all of these mailing lists, > most of which are uninterested in your particular shibboleth du jour. > Most usenet kooks would send their missives to soc.culture.japan, > sci.physics, and alt.sex.stories all at once. You'd tell the kooks > "Please don't cross-post, as it's pissing everyone off.", and their > only retort would amount to "But MY message is IMPORTANT!". > > Finally, you start off hollering and yelling, and you never > stop. This is the thing that makes us all think you've gone Serder > Argic on us. Most kooks would even capitalize randomly while yelling > that venus needs to be made a moon of mars or something. Chill out > and try to engage people more calmly. > > -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From dsaklad at gnu.org Mon Feb 10 15:07:23 2003 From: dsaklad at gnu.org (Don Saklad) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:03 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] nothing, as per usual Message-ID: From: "Robin S. Socha" Subject: Guide to Problematical Don Saklad Use (was: How to develop an automatic gnus mail set up thing for gnus users.) Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.gnus Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 04:31:39 -0500 Organization: Trial By Combat Path: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!iad-peer.news.verio.net!dfw-peer!news.verio.net!iad-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!not-for-mail X-URL: X-Face: #Z}0zkbqU,m`+S)^0R[.23L-o>U{UQ|(DvIqu^Bjw:po_g9;4JnT9tbn;QX$ga/LYS Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090011 (Oort Gnus v0.11) XEmacs/21.1 (Cuyahoga Valley, i386-unknown-openbsd3.1) References: Cancel-Lock: sha1:WLC88WamIvzMjEqD0mY0CMaH/h8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 7 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.70.202.39 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verio.net X-Trace: iad-read.news.verio.net 1044869405 209.70.202.39 (Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:30:05 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:30:05 GMT Xref: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu gnu.emacs.gnus:64261 * Don Saklad writes nothing, as per usual. Please cf. http://templeofhate.com/users/rsocha/rant/dsaklad.php > http://my.gnus.org/GDG/basic/show_form Thank you for your valued contribution, Don. I've enhanced the page as per your request. From unknown at panax.com Mon Feb 10 15:06:28 2003 From: unknown at panax.com (Patrick McFarland) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:03 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030210221548.GI26391@flounder.net> References: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209044353.9ED614F46@perens.com> <20030210153343.M5432@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030210170638.C7456@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030210172024.C7710@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030210221548.GI26391@flounder.net> Message-ID: <20030210230628.GA821@panax.com> On 10-Feb-2003, Adam McKenna wrote: > FIRST POST > > Seriously, what the fuck is this, slashdot digest? If it was, all my posts would be modded -1, troll. -- Patrick "Diablo-D3" McFarland || unknown@panax.com "Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989 From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Mon Feb 10 15:13:19 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030210225745.GA8384@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209044353.9ED614F46@perens.com> <20030210153343.M5432@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030210170638.C7456@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030210225041.GH30751@zork.net> <20030210225745.GA8384@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030210231319.GJ30751@zork.net> begin Rubn I Safir quotation: > Well, here you understate my level of sociopathology. > > I'm too far gone to be labled a simple Kook! No really, Ruben. I didn't mean that in a jovial way. You really do come off in this thread like a raving flat-earther. That speaks more to your particular tactics in this debate than anything else. > Sorry about the margins. I'm working on a 25 inch monitor and the > client opens wide. I figured as much, but that's less important to your particular cause than the issues of cross-posting and the tone of your writing. From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Mon Feb 10 15:14:44 2003 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (J. M. Brenner) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] dude, you're gettin' a doobie In-Reply-To: Message from joseph@nuasis.com of "Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:54:15 PST." <3E481F87.6090804@nuasis.com> References: <200302101330.05079.dep@linuxandmain.com> <200302102133.h1ALX1054395@mail0.rawbw.com> <20030210213519.GE30751@zork.net> <200302102139.h1ALdT056053@mail0.rawbw.com> <3E481F87.6090804@nuasis.com> Message-ID: <200302102314.h1ANEi085584@mail0.rawbw.com> joseph@nuasis.com wrote: > P.S. Why aren't you more cool and be like a DJ at KFJC? Reverse snobbery. From dsaklad at gnu.org Mon Feb 10 15:22:59 2003 From: dsaklad at gnu.org (Don Saklad) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: nothing, as per usual Message-ID: From: "Robin S. Socha" Subject: Re: Guide to Problematical Don Saklad Use Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.gnus Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 14:27:52 -0500 Organization: Trial By Combat Path: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!iad-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!not-for-mail X-URL: X-Face: #Z}0zkbqU,m`+S)^0R[.23L-o>U{UQ|(DvIqu^Bjw:po_g9;4JnT9tbn;QX$ga/LYS Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090011 (Oort Gnus v0.11) XEmacs/21.1 (Cuyahoga Valley, i386-unknown-openbsd3.1) References: <5390a120.0302100945.7fe7d91f@posting.google.com> Cancel-Lock: sha1:/GgxdG21J6vsdWFYdEzbflcvfGA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 33 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.70.202.39 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verio.net X-Trace: iad-read.news.verio.net 1044905178 209.70.202.39 (Mon, 10 Feb 2003 19:26:18 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 19:26:18 GMT Xref: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu gnu.emacs.gnus:64274 * el-santo writes: > "Robin S. Socha" wrote: >> * Don Saklad writes nothing [...] >>> http://my.gnus.org/GDG/basic/show_form >> >> Thank you for your valued contribution, Don. I've enhanced the page >> as per your request. > i think you're taking this don bashing thing a bit far. I haven't even started. And your shift key is broken, luser. > no need to be so rude and distateful. don has some good points, Like "I'm mentally challenged, so you have to excuse my incessant idiocies here"? Did you read ? > and he's been nothing but polite to you. [...] at least he's not > insulting anyone. He's insulting everyone's intelligence - except yours, obviously. Doesn't that make you wonder? > and don, keep at it. you'll get there eventually. mail in gnus is > great. you won't be able to live without it. send me an email if you > have questions. mail lusers-subscribe@my.gnus.org < /dev/null Let others join the fun!!!1 From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Mon Feb 10 16:52:17 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Plebiscite Message-ID: <20030211005217.GC20623@localhost.localdomain> I would like to see more from Don, and less from Ruben. How about a show of hands? -- Bob Bernstein From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Mon Feb 10 16:56:49 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Plebiscite In-Reply-To: <20030211005217.GC20623@localhost.localdomain> References: <20030211005217.GC20623@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20030211005649.GM30751@zork.net> begin Bob Bernstein quotation: > I would like to see more from Don, and less from Ruben. > > How about a show of hands? _______ /|_____|\ | | | | ______ | | | | /|____|\| \_____/ | ______ | | | | |/|____|\ | | | | _____ | | | | | \____/ | ----- | | | | | | ------- | \____/ | | ---- | | | | | | --- | | | | ------ | | | | | | | _____ | | _____ | ----- | ------- | |/|---|\ | ---- -| ---- | | | | | | ----- | ------ | ___ | `---' | | -- | --- |------ | ----- | | | | ----- | | | | | | | ______ | | | | | /.---. `. | | | | ___ | \\----\ \ | | | | ----- | \\ \ \ | | | | -- | \\___/ || . . / \ . . \ | | \ || . . . . . . | \ | |/ . . . . . \ | |_.- .' / . . \ | |_.-' | `. | | | . | | | . | | | . | | | | | | | | | | | ' | | | | \ \ / \ | \ | \ | \ / \ | \ _ | `. _.- ' / \ | | / | | | \ | | `- ._ _ . | | . . . | | . . | | | | | | | | | | | | | From dmarti at zgp.org Mon Feb 10 17:01:00 2003 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Plebiscite In-Reply-To: <20030211005217.GC20623@localhost.localdomain> References: <20030211005217.GC20623@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20030211010100.GB9229@zgp.org> begin Bob Bernstein quotation of Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 07:52:17PM -0500: > I would like to see more from Don, and less from Ruben. Holy shit! Liquid mice! http://www.databusinessproducts.com/mice.html never mind. -- Don Marti Even if we don't get DMCA reform, loudly http://zgp.org/~dmarti demanding DMCA reform is going to get the dmarti@zgp.org injustice of the DMCA in front of the next KG6INA jury. Make noise. It counts. From aaronl at vitelus.com Mon Feb 10 17:02:31 2003 From: aaronl at vitelus.com (Aaron Lehmann) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: <20030210231319.GJ30751@zork.net> References: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209044353.9ED614F46@perens.com> <20030210153343.M5432@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030210170638.C7456@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030210225041.GH30751@zork.net> <20030210225745.GA8384@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030210231319.GJ30751@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030211010231.GB12072@vitelus.com> On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 03:13:19PM -0800, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote: > > Sorry about the margins. I'm working on a 25 inch monitor and the > > client opens wide. > > I figured as much, but that's less important to your > particular cause than the issues of cross-posting and the tone of your > writing. And the signature block. From aaronl at vitelus.com Mon Feb 10 17:04:37 2003 From: aaronl at vitelus.com (Aaron Lehmann) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] dude, you're gettin' a doobie In-Reply-To: <200302101330.05079.dep@linuxandmain.com> References: <200302101330.05079.dep@linuxandmain.com> Message-ID: <20030211010437.GC12072@vitelus.com> On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 01:30:04PM -0500, dep wrote: > Hey, dude, you're getting a cell! Benjamin Curtis, the 22-year old > actor who portrays the Dell Guy in those bothersome computer > commercials, was arrested late last night (2/9) on a marijuana > possession charge, The Smoking Gun has learned. Dell? I thought pot was the Gateway drug... From aaronl at vitelus.com Mon Feb 10 17:06:41 2003 From: aaronl at vitelus.com (Aaron Lehmann) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] dude, you're gettin' a doobie In-Reply-To: <20030210185819.GA27449@gregh.ilan.cogent.net> References: <200302101330.05079.dep@linuxandmain.com> <20030210185819.GA27449@gregh.ilan.cogent.net> Message-ID: <20030211010641.GD12072@vitelus.com> On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 10:58:19AM -0800, MC MeatFlaps wrote: > Is it just California that won't fuck with you for possession (of > under an oz)? You'd think New York would have gotten over it by now > and would just give out tickets... We live in Cali for a reason... From andy at strugglers.net Mon Feb 10 17:07:43 2003 From: andy at strugglers.net (Andy Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Plebiscite In-Reply-To: <20030211005217.GC20623@localhost.localdomain> References: <20030211005217.GC20623@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20030211010743.GQ10819@lug.org.uk> On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 07:52:17PM -0500, Bob Bernstein wrote: > I would like to see more from Don, and less from Ruben. > > How about a show of hands? If you took Don's last 3 emails (hmm, and maybe added one old email of his where he demonises the Boston Public Library system?) and repeated them one thousand times, this would still be representative of all Don Saklad email I have ever seen. Ruben's emails however just keep getting kookier. When I read them I can almost feel the veins in his head pulsing from all the way over here in the Ukraine. I am compelled to read them all to see just how mad he can get and how far his typing can slip. Ruben at this point is definitely more gripping for me than Don Saklad. Well hey, you did ask. From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Mon Feb 10 17:08:12 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Plebiscite In-Reply-To: <20030211005649.GM30751@zork.net> References: <20030211005217.GC20623@localhost.localdomain> <20030211005649.GM30751@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030211010812.GE20623@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 04:56:49PM -0800, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote: > > How about a show of hands? > > > _______ > /|_____|\ > | | | | > ______ | | | | > /|____|\| \_____/ | ______ > | | | | |/|____|\ > | | | | _____ | | | | > | \____/ | ----- | | | | > | | ------- | \____/ | > | ---- | | | > | | | --- | > | | | ------ | > | | | | > | | _____ | | _____ > | ----- | ------- | |/|---|\ > | ---- -| ---- | | | | | > | ----- | ------ | ___ | `---' | > | -- | --- |------ | ----- | > | | | ----- | | > | | | | | > ______ | | | | | > /.---. `. | | | | ___ | > \\----\ \ | | | | ----- | > \\ \ \ | | | | -- | > \\___/ || . . / \ . . \ | | > \ || . . . . . . | \ > | |/ . . . . . \ | > |_.- .' / . . \ | > |_.-' | `. | > | | . | > | | . | > | | . | > | | | > | | | > | | | > | ' | > | | | > \ \ / > \ | > \ | > \ | > \ / > \ | > \ _ | > `. _.- ' / > \ | > | / > | | > | \ | > | `- ._ _ . | > | . . . | > | . . | > | | > | | > | | > | | > | | > | | > Look: don't pussy-foot around. Tell us what you *really* think! -- Bob Bernstein From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Mon Feb 10 17:10:52 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Plebiscite In-Reply-To: <20030211010812.GE20623@localhost.localdomain> References: <20030211005217.GC20623@localhost.localdomain> <20030211005649.GM30751@zork.net> <20030211010812.GE20623@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20030211011052.GN30751@zork.net> begin Bob Bernstein quotation: > pussy-foot Ewwwwww From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Mon Feb 10 17:11:45 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Plebiscite In-Reply-To: <20030211010100.GB9229@zgp.org> References: <20030211005217.GC20623@localhost.localdomain> <20030211010100.GB9229@zgp.org> Message-ID: <20030211011145.GF20623@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 05:01:00PM -0800, Don Marti wrote: > Holy shit! Liquid mice! > http://www.databusinessproducts.com/mice.html Liquid Mice The Liquid Mouse is a new addition to our range of liquid products and is the perfect complement to our Liquid Mats & Coasters. A professional 2 button & wheel scroll mouse incorporating plastic floaters and colour liquids, which can be over printed for that extra impact. "...for that extra impact." That's what she said. > never mind. She said that too; more than once. -- Bob Bernstein From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Mon Feb 10 17:15:09 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] dude, you're gettin' a doobie In-Reply-To: <200302101702.20517.dep@linuxandmain.com> References: <200302101330.05079.dep@linuxandmain.com> <200302102133.h1ALX1054395@mail0.rawbw.com> <20030210213519.GE30751@zork.net> <200302101702.20517.dep@linuxandmain.com> Message-ID: <20030211011509.GG20623@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 05:02:20PM -0500, dep wrote: > irving applied it to new york city in a humorous magazine piece. Since no one else has acknowledged your erudition, allow me: kudos! -- Bob Bernstein From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Mon Feb 10 17:13:16 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Plebiscite In-Reply-To: <20030211010743.GQ10819@lug.org.uk>; from andy@strugglers.net on Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 20:07:43 -0500 References: <20030211005217.GC20623@localhost.localdomain> <20030211010743.GQ10819@lug.org.uk> Message-ID: <20030210201316.C9486@www2.mrbrklyn.com> > When I read them > I can almost feel the veins in his head pulsing from all the way > over here in the Ukraine. Is the work in the Ukraine now? Ruben -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Mon Feb 10 17:14:08 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Plebiscite In-Reply-To: <20030211010812.GE20623@localhost.localdomain>; from rs@bernstein.providence.ri.us on Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 20:08:12 -0500 References: <20030211005217.GC20623@localhost.localdomain> <20030211005649.GM30751@zork.net> <20030211010812.GE20623@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20030210201408.E9486@www2.mrbrklyn.com> THAT is only a SINGLE hand. Where is the other one(s) He asked you to show your hands On 2003.02.10 20:08 Bob Bernstein wrote: > On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 04:56:49PM -0800, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote: > > > > How about a show of hands? > > > > > > _______ > > /|_____|\ > > | | | | > > ______ | | | | > > /|____|\| \_____/ | ______ > > | | | | |/|____|\ > > | | | | _____ | | | | > > | \____/ | ----- | | | | > > | | ------- | \____/ | > > | ---- | | | > > | | | --- | > > | | | ------ | > > | | | | > > | | _____ | | _____ > > | ----- | ------- | |/|---|\ > > | ---- -| ---- | | | | | > > | ----- | ------ | ___ | `---' | > > | -- | --- |------ | ----- | > > | | | ----- | | > > | | | | | > > ______ | | | | | > > /.---. `. | | | | ___ | > > \\----\ \ | | | | ----- | > > \\ \ \ | | | | -- | > > \\___/ || . . / \ . . \ | | > > \ || . . . . . . | \ > > | |/ . . . . . \ | > > |_.- .' / . . \ | > > |_.-' | `. | > > | | . | > > | | . | > > | | . | > > | | | > > | | | > > | | | > > | ' | > > | | | > > \ \ / > > \ | > > \ | > > \ | > > \ / > > \ | > > \ _ | > > `. _.- ' / > > \ | > > | / > > | | > > | \ | > > | `- ._ _ . | > > | . . . | > > | . . | > > | | > > | | > > | | > > | | > > | | > > | | > > > > Look: don't pussy-foot around. Tell us what you *really* think! > > -- > Bob Bernstein > > _______________________________________________ > CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks > http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey > -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Mon Feb 10 17:15:35 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Plebiscite In-Reply-To: <20030211011145.GF20623@localhost.localdomain>; from rs@bernstein.providence.ri.us on Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 20:11:45 -0500 References: <20030211005217.GC20623@localhost.localdomain> <20030211010100.GB9229@zgp.org> <20030211011145.GF20623@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20030210201535.G9486@www2.mrbrklyn.com> On 2003.02.10 20:11 Bob Bernstein wrote: > On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 05:01:00PM -0800, Don Marti wrote: > > > Holy shit! Liquid mice! > > http://www.databusinessproducts.com/mice.html > > Liquid Mice > If you want liquid mice, use a Blender and a mousetrap. Ruben -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Mon Feb 10 17:19:14 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Fan Mail.... from cyberspace... In-Reply-To: <20030210225041.GH30751@zork.net>; from monkeymaster@crackmonkey.org on Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 17:50:41 -0500 References: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209044353.9ED614F46@perens.com> <20030210153343.M5432@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030210170638.C7456@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030210225041.GH30751@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030210201914.I9486@www2.mrbrklyn.com> You might interpret this as ego stroking, but I view it as giving people a voice: ___________________________________________________________ Hi, Just wanted to thank you for saying what some of us cannot risk saying about Bill Gates and his horrible company. Thanks! M P.S. In case the subject gets truncated, URL is http://newsforge.com/newsforge/03/02/09/2138247.shtml?tid=51 __________________________________________________________________________ On 2003.02.10 17:50 Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote: > [distribution snipped to ruben-run venues and crackmonkey] > > begin Rubn I Safir quotation: > > Do not put Criminals on the egov-OS Panel! > > > > http://news.com.com/2100-1001-983988.html?tag=fd_top > > Ruben, chill out. It's a *civil* suit. > > This whole cross-posted charade hasn't been about microsoft or > linux or GNU or anything at all appropriate for the channels you've > been forwarding them to. This whole argument is all about Ruben Ruben > Ruben. > > I'm going to say this plainly and clearly: > > You are a kook. > -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Mon Feb 10 17:44:47 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Plebiscite In-Reply-To: <20030211010743.GQ10819@lug.org.uk> References: <20030211005217.GC20623@localhost.localdomain> <20030211010743.GQ10819@lug.org.uk> Message-ID: <20030211014447.GH20623@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Feb 11, 2003 at 01:07:43AM +0000, Andy Smith wrote: > ... this would still be representative > of all Don Saklad email I have ever seen. Well, that just goes to show you that there's always something. I feel "connected" to Don more than to Ruben. Back in the day I whiled away many an hour in the courtyard of the BPL main branch in Copley Square enjoying chemicals and books. I even still have a BPL book here RIGHT NOW that I forgot to return. > Ruben's emails however just keep getting kookier. When I read them > I can almost feel the veins in his head pulsing from all the way > over here in the Ukraine. Yes. I no longer work in the mental health biz. My license has lapsed; you may check this on the pertinent Commonwealth of Massachusetts website by looking for #389. (I was one of the first mental health counselors so licensed in Mass, hence the low number.) Long story short: I do not wish to return to the field. I wish Ruben all the luck in the world. And please please go back on your meds. -- Bob Bernstein From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Mon Feb 10 18:15:18 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Plebiscite In-Reply-To: <20030210201316.C9486@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030211005217.GC20623@localhost.localdomain> <20030211010743.GQ10819@lug.org.uk> <20030210201316.C9486@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030211021518.GP30751@zork.net> begin Rubn I Safir quotation: > > When I read them I can almost feel the veins in his head pulsing > > from all the way over here in the Ukraine. > > Is the work in the Ukraine now? Yeah man. Everybody knows it's just "Ukrainia" now. From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Mon Feb 10 19:11:19 2003 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (J. M. Brenner) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] dude, you're gettin' a doobie In-Reply-To: Message from Bob Bernstein of "Mon, 10 Feb 2003 20:15:09 EST." <20030211011509.GG20623@localhost.localdomain> References: <200302101330.05079.dep@linuxandmain.com> <200302102133.h1ALX1054395@mail0.rawbw.com> <20030210213519.GE30751@zork.net> <200302101702.20517.dep@linuxandmain.com> <20030211011509.GG20623@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200302110311.h1B3BJ047465@mail0.rawbw.com> Bob Bernstein wrote: > dep wrote: > > > irving applied it to new york city in a humorous magazine piece. > > Since no one else has acknowledged your erudition, allow me: kudos! Are you allowed to say things like that in here? I would have thought our embarassed silence would be kudos enough. (And besides, maybe he just made it up.) From dep at linuxandmain.com Mon Feb 10 19:14:36 2003 From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] dude, you're gettin' a doobie In-Reply-To: <20030211010437.GC12072@vitelus.com> References: <200302101330.05079.dep@linuxandmain.com> <20030211010437.GC12072@vitelus.com> Message-ID: <200302102214.37000.dep@linuxandmain.com> begin Aaron Lehmann's quote: | On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 01:30:04PM -0500, dep wrote: | > Hey, dude, you're getting a cell! Benjamin Curtis, the 22-year | > old actor who portrays the Dell Guy in those bothersome computer | > commercials, was arrested late last night (2/9) on a marijuana | > possession charge, The Smoking Gun has learned. | | Dell? I thought pot was the Gateway drug... it's impolite to notice obvious things that nobody else noticed. -- dep http://www.linuxandmain.com -- outside the box, barely within the envelope, and no animated paperclip anywhere. From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Mon Feb 10 19:33:24 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] dude, you're gettin' a doobie In-Reply-To: Message from Bob Bernstein of "Mon, 10 Feb 2003 20:15:09 EST." <20030211011509.GG20623@localhost.localdomain> References: <200302101330.05079.dep@linuxandmain.com> <200302102133.h1ALX1054395@mail0.rawbw.com> <20030210213519.GE30751@zork.net> <200302101702.20517.dep@linuxandmain.com> <20030211011509.GG20623@localhost.localdomain> Message from Bob Bernstein of "Mon, 10 Feb 2003 20:15:09 EST." <20030211011509.GG20623@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1044934404.3e486f0476d87@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting "J. M. Brenner" : > Are you allowed to say things like that in here? "Allowed?:" Allowed by whom? You don't really take these egghead geeks SERIOUSLY do you? Hey, for most of 'em, their next piece of ass will be their first, know what I mean? I mean, they all need to GET OUT a hell of a lot more, ya know what I mean? > (And besides, maybe he just made it up.) http://www.bartleby.com/61/54/G0205400.html Duh. -- Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several USA streams from abroad. (Swift) From ebourg at cs.mcgill.ca Mon Feb 10 21:06:24 2003 From: ebourg at cs.mcgill.ca (Erik Bourget) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Plebiscite In-Reply-To: <20030210201535.G9486@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030211005217.GC20623@localhost.localdomain> <20030211010100.GB9229@zgp.org> <20030211011145.GF20623@localhost.localdomain> <20030210201535.G9486@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030211050624.GA14745@mjollnir.odinnet> On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 08:15:35PM -0500, Ruben I Safir wrote: > > On 2003.02.10 20:11 Bob Bernstein wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 05:01:00PM -0800, Don Marti wrote: > > > > > Holy shit! Liquid mice! > > > http://www.databusinessproducts.com/mice.html > > > > Liquid Mice > > > If you want liquid mice, use a Blender and a mousetrap. > > Ruben > I fear that such a project would not be admissible under the GNU General Public License as the products can only be shared once. On a somewhat related note, has anyone seen the Canadian government-financed film Fubar? Do so, it's brilliant. Just give'r. - erik -- erik bourget | "emacs outshines all other editing software in ebourg@cs.mcgill.ca | approximately the same way that the noonday sun ---------------------/ does the stars. It is not just bigger and brighter; it simply makes everything else vanish." - Neal Stephenson From Radix42 at Cox.Net Mon Feb 10 20:18:07 2003 From: Radix42 at Cox.Net (David Mercer) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Plebiscite In-Reply-To: <20030210201408.E9486@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030211005217.GC20623@localhost.localdomain> <20030211005649.GM30751@zork.net> <20030211010812.GE20623@localhost.localdomain> <20030210201408.E9486@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: >THAT is only a SINGLE hand. > >Where is the other one(s) > >He asked you to show your hands > Ok, here ya go: ______ /|_____|\ | | | | | | | | | \_____/ | | | | _____ | | ----- | | ------- | | | | | | | | | | _____ | | ------- | | ---- | | ------ | | --- | | | _______ | | ______ ______ ______ / \| |/ \/ \ /.---. `. | | | | ___ | \\----\ \ | | | | ----- | \\ \ \ | | | | -- | \\___/ || . . / \ . . \ | | \ || . . . . . . | \ | |/ . . . . . \ | |_.- .' / . . \ | |_.-' | `. | | | . | | | . | | | . | | | | | | | | | | | ' | | | | \ \ / \ | \ | \ | \ / \ | \ _ | `. _.- ' / \ | (Thanks to the Monkey Master for the original, and emacs for picture-mode) -- David Mercer Tucson, AZ Radix42@Cox.Net From Radix42 at Cox.Net Tue Feb 11 00:03:50 2003 From: Radix42 at Cox.Net (David Mercer) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Plebiscite In-Reply-To: <20030211015644.A19306@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030211005217.GC20623@localhost.localdomain> <20030211005649.GM30751@zork.net> <20030211010812.GE20623@localhost.localdomain> <20030210201408.E9486@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030211015644.A19306@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: annoying text banner removed And that was still more than 80 columns, seems Ruben can't count OR spell. I believe that when a plebiscite is called for, the normal rule is one hand per person. Mine was raised with my finger up. -- David Mercer Tucson, AZ Radix42@Cox.Net From dsaklad at gnu.org Tue Feb 11 02:58:16 2003 From: dsaklad at gnu.org (Don Saklad) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] socially useful software. hostility. computer industry related environments. Message-ID: hostility socially useful software computer industry related environments In computer industry related environments, how do you folks out there handle hostility, avoid hostility or ... ? What are your ideals?... Massachusetts Gnusers at the Cambridge Project Gnu lab quarters observe hostility, anger and rage among other gnusers. things don't proceed as anticipated. people slam their hands at keyboards in rage. criticism can begin an anger cycle. overreactive arguing occurs. kneejerk overreactive authoritarian hostility pains others. a territorial thing, contradictory to the ideals of http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.html a sniffling, muzzling effect can take hold interfering with creativity. Reference http://www.adrr.com/aa/FAQ.html http://www.adrr.com/ http://www.adrr.com/aa/overview.html http://pon.harvard.edu See also Weblog guide to problematical gnus mail usability http://zork.net/~dsaklad/gnusmail.html From dsaklad at zurich.ai.mit.edu Tue Feb 11 04:03:54 2003 From: dsaklad at zurich.ai.mit.edu (Don Saklad) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] By John Carlson. Please, Lord! I never want to hear another innocent librarian scream Message-ID: By John Carlson Please, Lord! I never want to hear another innocent librarian scream http://www.thestarpress.com/tsp/news/local/03/feb/0209carlsoncolmforsundaynews.php From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Tue Feb 11 07:20:33 2003 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Happy Holiday Everyone! Message-ID: <20030211102033.A27592@www2.mrbrklyn.com> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2749231.stm At least 14 people have been killed and several others injured in a stampede during the annual Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca, a Saudi official has said. The official said the incident happened during the symbolic stoning of the devil ritual in Mina, just outside Mecca. The incident comes despite extra precautions taken by the Saudi authorities to try to prevent a recurrence of the stampedes which have claimed hundreds of lives in recent years. The pilgrimage, or Hajj, is taking place against the backdrop of a looming war with Iraq, and the authorities have deployed thousands of troops to maintain order. -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions __________________________ DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 From adam at flounder.net Tue Feb 11 07:39:46 2003 From: adam at flounder.net (Adam McKenna) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] By John Carlson. Please, Lord! I never want to hear another innocent librarian scream In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030211153946.GW26391@flounder.net> On Tue, Feb 11, 2003 at 07:03:54AM -0500, Don Saklad wrote: > By John Carlson > Please, Lord! I never want to hear another innocent librarian scream > http://www.thestarpress.com/tsp/news/local/03/feb/0209carlsoncolmforsundaynews.php I'm confused, I thought this list was about non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks, I didn't know it was a place for fuckwits to paste every fucking url that tickles their fancy. --Adam From tomduffy at dslextreme.com Tue Feb 11 08:24:37 2003 From: tomduffy at dslextreme.com (Tom Duffy) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: RTFRFC -- WAS: Re: [!CrackMonkey!] dude, you're gettin' a doobie In-Reply-To: <200302102139.h1ALdT056053@mail0.rawbw.com> References: <200302101330.05079.dep@linuxandmain.com> <200302102133.h1ALX1054395@mail0.rawbw.com> <20030210213519.GE30751@zork.net> <200302102139.h1ALdT056053@mail0.rawbw.com> Message-ID: <1044980677.8186.7.camel@biznatch> On Mon, 2003-02-10 at 13:39, J. M. Brenner wrote: > In-Reply-To: Message from Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco of "Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:35:19 PST." <20030210213519.GE30751@zork.net> Your MUA makes baby Jesus cry. rfc0822: in-reply-to = "In-Reply-To:" *(phrase / msg-id) phrase = 1*word ; Sequence of words word = atom / quoted-string atom = 1* qtext = , ; => may be folded "\" & CR, and including linear-white-space> quoted-pair = "\" CHAR ; may quote any char quoted-string = <"> *(qtext/quoted-pair) <"> ; Regular qtext or ; quoted chars. msg-id = "<" addr-spec ">" ; Unique message id addr-spec = local-part "@" domain ; global address or better yet: rfc2822: in-reply-to = "In-Reply-To:" 1*msg-id CRLF -- "[ SUV drivers are ] insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors and communities." -- Keith Bradsher reporting on SUV automakers' own market research From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu Tue Feb 11 08:26:40 2003 From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] By John Carlson. Please, Lord! I never want to hear another innocent librarian scream In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 11 Feb 2003 07:39:46 PST." <20030211153946.GW26391@flounder.net> References: <20030211153946.GW26391@flounder.net> Message-ID: <200302111626.h1BGQeU6004067@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 07:39:46 PST, Adam McKenna said: > I'm confused, I thought this list was about non-sequitur arguments and > ad-hominem personal attacks, I didn't know it was a place for fuckwits to > paste every fucking url that tickles their fancy. You might want to wander down to your local Walmart and pick up some neurons on sale. Then you'd be able to realize that such URLs are unrelated to anything else being discussed, and therefor by definition a non sequitur. From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Tue Feb 11 08:47:43 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] By John Carlson. Please, Lord! I never want to hear another innocent librarian scream In-Reply-To: <20030211153946.GW26391@flounder.net> References: <20030211153946.GW26391@flounder.net> Message-ID: <20030211164743.GA3087@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Feb 11, 2003 at 07:39:46AM -0800, Adam McKenna wrote: > I'm confused... Agreed. > I thought... You currently lack proper authorization to engage in the stated activity. As noted by others, and in the FUCKING LIST ARCHIVES, you may apply for such authorization at Walmarts. It's always a good idea, too, to retain legal counsel. -- Bob Bernstein From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Tue Feb 11 08:51:39 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: RTFRFC -- WAS: Re: [!CrackMonkey!] dude, you're gettin' a doobie In-Reply-To: <1044980677.8186.7.camel@biznatch> References: <200302101330.05079.dep@linuxandmain.com> <200302102133.h1ALX1054395@mail0.rawbw.com> <20030210213519.GE30751@zork.net> <200302102139.h1ALdT056053@mail0.rawbw.com> <1044980677.8186.7.camel@biznatch> Message-ID: <20030211165139.GA3113@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Feb 11, 2003 at 08:24:37AM -0800, Tom Duffy wrote: > Your MUA makes baby Jesus cry. Your delusion that baby Jesus gives a rat's ass about rfc's makes Him cry. -- Bob Bernstein From andy at strugglers.net Tue Feb 11 08:57:01 2003 From: andy at strugglers.net (Andy Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] By John Carlson. Please, Lord! I never want to hear another innocent librarian scream In-Reply-To: <20030211164743.GA3087@localhost.localdomain> References: <20030211153946.GW26391@flounder.net> <20030211164743.GA3087@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20030211165701.GD10819@lug.org.uk> On Tue, Feb 11, 2003 at 11:47:43AM -0500, Bob Bernstein wrote: > You currently lack proper authorization to engage in the stated > activity. As noted by others, and in the FUCKING LIST ARCHIVES, you > may apply for such authorization at Walmarts. It's always a good idea, > too, to retain legal counsel. Here in the Ukraine we do not have your American WAL*MART. We do however have Asda, which is I believe part of the WAL*MART "family". Can I obtain neurons configured correctly for crackmonkey from my local Asda? From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Tue Feb 11 09:17:45 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] By John Carlson. Please, Lord! I never want to hear another innocent librarian scream In-Reply-To: <20030211165701.GD10819@lug.org.uk> References: <20030211153946.GW26391@flounder.net> <20030211164743.GA3087@localhost.localdomain> <20030211165701.GD10819@lug.org.uk> Message-ID: <20030211171745.GB3113@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Feb 11, 2003 at 04:57:01PM +0000, Andy Smith wrote: > Can I obtain neurons configured correctly for crackmonkey from my > local Asda? Not unless they feature black-market blue-light specials. Oops...that's Kmart. Got any Kmarts? -- Bob Bernstein angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night From adam at flounder.net Tue Feb 11 09:24:14 2003 From: adam at flounder.net (Adam McKenna) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] By John Carlson. Please, Lord! I never want to hear another innocent librarian scream In-Reply-To: <200302111626.h1BGQeU6004067@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> References: <20030211153946.GW26391@flounder.net> <200302111626.h1BGQeU6004067@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: <20030211172414.GX26391@flounder.net> On Tue, Feb 11, 2003 at 11:26:40AM -0500, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote: > You might want to wander down to your local Walmart and pick up some neurons > on sale. Then you'd be able to realize that such URLs are unrelated to > anything else being discussed, and therefor by definition a non sequitur. Yes, but they're not arguments. Fuckwit. --Adam From adam at flounder.net Tue Feb 11 09:28:56 2003 From: adam at flounder.net (Adam McKenna) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] By John Carlson. Please, Lord! I never want to hear another innocent librarian scream In-Reply-To: <20030211164743.GA3087@localhost.localdomain> References: <20030211153946.GW26391@flounder.net> <20030211164743.GA3087@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20030211172856.GY26391@flounder.net> On Tue, Feb 11, 2003 at 11:47:43AM -0500, Bob Bernstein wrote: > > I thought... > > You currently lack proper authorization to engage in the stated > activity. As noted by others, and in the FUCKING LIST ARCHIVES, you > may apply for such authorization at Walmarts. It's always a good idea, > too, to retain legal counsel. Having trouble looking through the archives, seems they've been flooded with links to slashdot articles posted by fuckwits. --Adam From dave at zork.net Tue Feb 11 09:48:04 2003 From: dave at zork.net (The One True Dave Barry) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] By John Carlson. Please, Lord! I never want to hear another innocent librarian scream In-Reply-To: <20030211172856.GY26391@flounder.net> References: <20030211153946.GW26391@flounder.net> <20030211164743.GA3087@localhost.localdomain> <20030211172856.GY26391@flounder.net> Message-ID: <20030211174804.GA6641@zork.net> Quothe Adam McKenna , on Tue, Feb 11, 2003: > Having trouble looking through the archives I think your AOL window might be blocking your IE window. -- Stealin' DNA samples from the unborn, then you comin' after us 'cause we sampled a James Brown horn? --Michael Franti From dep at linuxandmain.com Tue Feb 11 09:49:55 2003 From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] 404 compliance Message-ID: <200302111249.55928.dep@linuxandmain.com> Three dead after web pact Three Japanese people have been found dead after apparently organising their suicides via a website. The 26-year-old man and two women are believed to have died of carbon monoxide poisoning. A 17-year-old student who read about the plan on the internet reported the deaths to police. Tokyo police found several portable clay cooking stoves inside the apartment, its glass door sealed with tape and the door locked from the inside. Japan, which has a population of 125 million, has one of the world's highest suicide rates, regularly topping over 30,000 a year. The stagnant economy has been blamed for an increasing number of suicides as many struggle with job losses, bankruptcies or mounting debts. ? Associated Press Story filed: 14:49 Tuesday 11th February 2003 -- dep http://www.linuxandmain.com -- outside the box, barely within the envelope, and no animated paperclip anywhere. From adam at flounder.net Tue Feb 11 09:42:16 2003 From: adam at flounder.net (Adam McKenna) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:04 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] By John Carlson. Please, Lord! I never want to hear another innocent librarian scream In-Reply-To: <20030211174804.GA6641@zork.net> References: <20030211153946.GW26391@flounder.net> <20030211164743.GA3087@localhost.localdomain> <20030211172856.GY26391@flounder.net> <20030211174804.GA6641@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030211174216.GZ26391@flounder.net> On Tue, Feb 11, 2003 at 09:48:04AM -0800, The One True Dave Barry wrote: > Quothe Adam McKenna , on Tue, Feb 11, 2003: > > Having trouble looking through the archives > > I think your AOL window might be blocking your IE window. Actually, it was my MSN messenger window. THANKS! --Adam From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Tue Feb 11 11:21:09 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:05 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Happy Holiday Everyone! In-Reply-To: <20030211102033.A27592@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20030211102033.A27592@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20030211192109.GS30751@zork.net> begin Rubn I Safir quotation: > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2749231.stm > > At least 14 people have been killed and several others injured in a > stampede during the annual Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca, a Saudi > official has said. Eep! One of the listmembers here is on Hajj right now. I hope he's okay. From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Tue Feb 11 11:42:48 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:05 2005 Subject: Dufus? Doofus? (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] By John Carlson. Please, Lord! I never want to hear another innocent librarian scream In-Reply-To: <20030211174216.GZ26391@flounder.net> References: <20030211153946.GW26391@flounder.net> <20030211164743.GA3087@localhost.localdomain> <20030211172856.GY26391@flounder.net> <20030211174804.GA6641@zork.net> <20030211174216.GZ26391@flounder.net> Message-ID: <20030211194248.GE3113@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Feb 11, 2003 at 09:42:16AM -0800, Adam McKenna wrote: > Actually, it was my MSN messenger window. THANKS! From joakim at avmaria.com Tue Feb 11 10:18:21 2003 From: joakim at avmaria.com (Joakim Ziegler) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:05 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Happy Holiday Everyone! In-Reply-To: <20030211192109.GS30751@zork.net> References: <20030211102033.A27592@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030211192109.GS30751@zork.net> Message-ID: <1044987500.3665.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2003-02-11 at 13:21, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote: > begin Rubn I Safir quotation: > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2749231.stm > > > > At least 14 people have been killed and several others injured in a > > stampede during the annual Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca, a Saudi > > official has said. > Eep! One of the listmembers here is on Hajj right now. I > hope he's okay. Considering that the number of pilgrims in those parts right now, statistically you have very little to worry about. -- The Private Joakim Ziegler - Not Speaking For Anyone But Myself joakim@avmaria.com - http://www.avmaria.com - rdgzt@Undernet http://www.avmaria.com/ - http://www.fix.no/ From adam at flounder.net Tue Feb 11 11:38:01 2003 From: adam at flounder.net (Adam McKenna) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:05 2005 Subject: Dufus? Doofus? (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] By John Carlson. Please, Lord! I never want to hear another innocent librarian scream In-Reply-To: <20030211194248.GE3113@localhost.localdomain> References: <20030211153946.GW26391@flounder.net> <20030211164743.GA3087@localhost.localdomain> <20030211172856.GY26391@flounder.net> <20030211174804.GA6641@zork.net> <20030211174216.GZ26391@flounder.net> <20030211194248.GE3113@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20030211193801.GC26391@flounder.net> On Tue, Feb 11, 2003 at 02:42:48PM -0500, Bob Bernstein wrote: > From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.44 > [gcide]: > > doofus \doo"fus\, n. > a person who is stupid or inept; -- used contemptuously. > [Also spelled {dufus}.] [Slang] > > Syn: dingdong, ding-a-ling. [PJC] adam@athlon:~$ dict fuckwit No definitions found for "fuckwit" Sorry, Bob, looks like I can't play this game with you. --Adam From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Tue Feb 11 11:52:08 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:05 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Happy Holiday Everyone! In-Reply-To: <1044987500.3665.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20030211102033.A27592@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030211192109.GS30751@zork.net> <1044987500.3665.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20030211195208.GU30751@zork.net> begin Joakim Ziegler quotation: > Considering that the number of pilgrims in those parts right now, > statistically you have very little to worry about. yeah, I just read the numbers. But when I read "stampede" I think of just about everyone in the whole crowd. From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Tue Feb 11 12:13:48 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:05 2005 Subject: Dufus? Doofus? (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] By John Carlson. Please, Lord! I never want to hear another innocent librarian scream In-Reply-To: <20030211193801.GC26391@flounder.net> References: <20030211153946.GW26391@flounder.net> <20030211164743.GA3087@localhost.localdomain> <20030211172856.GY26391@flounder.net> <20030211174804.GA6641@zork.net> <20030211174216.GZ26391@flounder.net> <20030211194248.GE3113@localhost.localdomain> <20030211193801.GC26391@flounder.net> Message-ID: <20030211201348.GF3113@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Feb 11, 2003 at 11:38:01AM -0800, Adam McKenna wrote: > No definitions found for "fuckwit" > > Sorry, Bob, looks like I can't play this game with you. You're using a fuckwit's dictd. Consider: 2 definitions found >From The Revised Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.44.01 [gcide]: fuckwit \fuckwit\ n. 1. a stupid person; -- disparaging and vulgar. [disparaging, vulgar slang] Syn: dunce, dunderwit, numskull, blockwit, bonewit, lunkwit, hammerwit, knucklewit, loggerwit, muttonwit, shitwit. [WordNet 1.5] >From New WordNet (r) 1.7.10 (Jan 2003) [wn]: fuckwit n : these words are used to express a low opinion of someone's intelligence [syn: {dunce}, {dunderwit}, {numskull}, {blockwit}, {bonewit}, {lunkwit}, {hammerwit}, {knucklewit}, {loggerwit}, {muttonwit}, {shitwit}] -- Bob Bernstein From adam at flounder.net Tue Feb 11 13:48:42 2003 From: adam at flounder.net (Adam McKenna) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:05 2005 Subject: Dufus? Doofus? (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] By John Carlson. Please, Lord! I never want to hear another innocent librarian scream In-Reply-To: <20030211201348.GF3113@localhost.localdomain> References: <20030211153946.GW26391@flounder.net> <20030211164743.GA3087@localhost.localdomain> <20030211172856.GY26391@flounder.net> <20030211174804.GA6641@zork.net> <20030211174216.GZ26391@flounder.net> <20030211194248.GE3113@localhost.localdomain> <20030211193801.GC26391@flounder.net> <20030211201348.GF3113@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20030211214842.GD26391@flounder.net> On Tue, Feb 11, 2003 at 03:13:48PM -0500, Bob Bernstein wrote: > On Tue, Feb 11, 2003 at 11:38:01AM -0800, Adam McKenna wrote: > > > No definitions found for "fuckwit" > > > > Sorry, Bob, looks like I can't play this game with you. > > You're using a fuckwit's dictd. Consider: Nice work, did you do that all by hand or did you make use of 'sed'? --Adam From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Tue Feb 11 14:18:02 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:05 2005 Subject: Dufus? Doofus? (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] By John Carlson. Please, Lord! I never want to hear another innocent librarian scream In-Reply-To: <20030211214842.GD26391@flounder.net> References: <20030211153946.GW26391@flounder.net> <20030211164743.GA3087@localhost.localdomain> <20030211172856.GY26391@flounder.net> <20030211174804.GA6641@zork.net> <20030211174216.GZ26391@flounder.net> <20030211194248.GE3113@localhost.localdomain> <20030211193801.GC26391@flounder.net> <20030211201348.GF3113@localhost.localdomain> <20030211214842.GD26391@flounder.net> Message-ID: <20030211221802.GI3113@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Feb 11, 2003 at 01:48:42PM -0800, Adam McKenna wrote: > Nice work, did you do that all by hand or did you make use of 'sed'? I just can't get anything past you huh Adam? God damn but you're a bright one. Jesus Mary and Joseph you're smart. Your future is surely bright indeed. Have confidence. Sleep like a baby. Everything's ok. No need to worry about a single litte itsy-bitsy thing. It's all been taken care of. You can relax now. Have a nice long hot soak in the tub. Get something good to eat in your tummy. Go down the bar and buy all your chums a drink or two. Spread the good cheer around. Rest assured you'll never see it coming. -- Bob Bernstein From jv at zork.net Tue Feb 11 14:39:27 2003 From: jv at zork.net (Juggler Vain) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:05 2005 Subject: Thinning out the hurt (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] Happy Holiday Everyone!) In-Reply-To: <20030211195208.GU30751@zork.net> References: <20030211102033.A27592@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030211192109.GS30751@zork.net> <1044987500.3665.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20030211195208.GU30751@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030211223927.GG5066@zork.net> Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco replies to: > Joakim Ziegler's conjecture on a particular listmember's fate: > > Considering that the number of pilgrims in those parts right now, > > statistically you have very little to worry about. > yeah, I just read the numbers. But when I read "stampede" I > think of just about everyone in the whole crowd. When one reads "stampede" in the context of human tragedy... ... one encounters animalifaction, applied to a mind under pressure. Quicksilver splatters, stumbling ahead of reason. All part of the act. -jv p.s... regarding said listmember, I hear-tell that Haj Crush selects against the old/infirm... !what a way to go... !Allah Akbar From nick at zork.net Tue Feb 11 15:50:43 2003 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:05 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] yes, but it is very neat Message-ID: <20030211235043.GB30751@zork.net> http://kb9mci.net/bsa.shtml From jv at zork.net Tue Feb 11 16:28:29 2003 From: jv at zork.net (Juggler Vain) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:05 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Plebiscite In-Reply-To: <20030211011052.GN30751@zork.net> References: <20030211005217.GC20623@localhost.localdomain> <20030211005649.GM30751@zork.net> <20030211010812.GE20623@localhost.localdomain> <20030211011052.GN30751@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030212002829.GJ5066@zork.net> begin Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco quotation: > begin Bob Bernstein quotation: > > pussy-foot > Ewwwwww Damn'd right, and it leads to athlete's vagina. -jv From ebourg at cs.mcgill.ca Tue Feb 11 20:42:21 2003 From: ebourg at cs.mcgill.ca (Erik Bourget) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:05 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] By John Carlson. Please, Lord! I never want to hear another innocent librarian scream In-Reply-To: <200302111626.h1BGQeU6004067@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> References: <20030211153946.GW26391@flounder.net> <200302111626.h1BGQeU6004067@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: <20030212044221.GC24139@odinnet.ath.cx> On Tue, Feb 11, 2003 at 11:26:40AM -0500, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote: > On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 07:39:46 PST, Adam McKenna said: > > > I'm confused, I thought this list was about non-sequitur arguments and > > ad-hominem personal attacks, I didn't know it was a place for fuckwits to > > paste every fucking url that tickles their fancy. > > You might want to wander down to your local Walmart and pick up some neurons > on sale. Then you'd be able to realize that such URLs are unrelated to > anything else being discussed, and therefor by definition a non sequitur. You spelled 'therefore' wrong. -- erik bourget | "emacs outshines all other editing software in ebourg@cs.mcgill.ca | approximately the same way that the noonday sun ---------------------/ does the stars. It is not just bigger and brighter; it simply makes everything else vanish." - Neal Stephenson From squinky at dasbistro.com Tue Feb 11 21:02:23 2003 From: squinky at dasbistro.com (Not Erik) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:05 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] By John Carlson. Please, Lord! I never want to hear another innocent librarian scream In-Reply-To: <200302111626.h1BGQeU6004067@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> References: <20030211153946.GW26391@flounder.net> <200302111626.h1BGQeU6004067@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: <20030212050223.GF23689@dasbistro.com> On Tue, Feb 11, 2003 at 11:26:40AM -0500, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote: > You might want to wander down to your local Walmart and pick up some neurons > on sale. Then you'd be able to realize that such URLs are unrelated to > anything else being discussed, and therefor by definition a non sequitur. DAMNIT! I thought nonsequiturs were those little silver things they put on cupcakes! -- not erik - squinky@dasbistro.com - http://www.dasbistro.com/~erik/ From henrik at enberg.org Tue Feb 11 22:08:22 2003 From: henrik at enberg.org (Henrik Enberg) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:05 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Eyecandy wank for windows Message-ID: <878ywmt4ix.fsf@enberg.org> at From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Tue Feb 11 22:16:14 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:05 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Eyecandy wank for windows In-Reply-To: <878ywmt4ix.fsf@enberg.org> References: <878ywmt4ix.fsf@enberg.org> Message-ID: <20030212061613.GC30751@zork.net> begin Henrik Enberg quotation: > at Fucker uses PICO: http://www.crackmonkey.us/images/desktop.png From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Tue Feb 11 22:18:13 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:05 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Eyecandy wank for windows In-Reply-To: <20030212061613.GC30751@zork.net> References: <878ywmt4ix.fsf@enberg.org> <20030212061613.GC30751@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030212061813.GD30751@zork.net> I also love how he uses Slackware and then bitches about how haaaard it is to compile software. From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Tue Feb 11 23:43:45 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:05 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Eyecandy wank for windows In-Reply-To: <20030212061813.GD30751@zork.net> References: <878ywmt4ix.fsf@enberg.org> <20030212061613.GC30751@zork.net> <20030212061813.GD30751@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030212074345.GM3113@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Feb 11, 2003 at 10:18:13PM -0800, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote: > I also love how he uses Slackware and then bitches about how haaaard > it is to compile software. But, unless I missed it somewhere, he seems blissfully but oh so refreshingly unaware of even the mere existence of crackmonkey.org, let alone its nefarious mission to push Canada into the sea! (Also, is it now official? Are we calling all blog software 'CMS'? At least with 'blog' there's no implication that something deserving to be termed "content" exists.) -- Bob Bernstein From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Tue Feb 11 23:53:46 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:05 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Eyecandy wank for windows In-Reply-To: <20030212074345.GM3113@localhost.localdomain> References: <878ywmt4ix.fsf@enberg.org> <20030212061613.GC30751@zork.net> <20030212061813.GD30751@zork.net> <20030212074345.GM3113@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20030212075346.GA30713@zork.net> begin Bob Bernstein quotation: > But, unless I missed it somewhere, he seems blissfully but oh so > refreshingly unaware of even the mere existence of crackmonkey.org, > let alone its nefarious mission to push Canada into the sea! "Canadia" From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Tue Feb 11 23:58:35 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:05 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Eyecandy wank for windows In-Reply-To: <20030212075346.GA30713@zork.net> References: <878ywmt4ix.fsf@enberg.org> <20030212061613.GC30751@zork.net> <20030212061813.GD30751@zork.net> <20030212074345.GM3113@localhost.localdomain> <20030212075346.GA30713@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030212075835.GN3113@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Feb 11, 2003 at 11:53:46PM -0800, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote: > "Canadia" Yeah whatever. And 'CMS'? -- Bob Bernstein From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Wed Feb 12 00:01:06 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:05 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Eyecandy wank for windows In-Reply-To: <20030212075835.GN3113@localhost.localdomain> References: <878ywmt4ix.fsf@enberg.org> <20030212061613.GC30751@zork.net> <20030212061813.GD30751@zork.net> <20030212074345.GM3113@localhost.localdomain> <20030212075346.GA30713@zork.net> <20030212075835.GN3113@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20030212080106.GB30713@zork.net> begin Bob Bernstein quotation: > Yeah whatever. And 'CMS'? I dunno, I hear they're sort of like our FBI. I think they're the only law officers in Canadia that can carry guns. From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Wed Feb 12 00:47:46 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:05 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Eyecandy wank for windows In-Reply-To: <20030212080106.GB30713@zork.net> References: <878ywmt4ix.fsf@enberg.org> <20030212061613.GC30751@zork.net> <20030212061813.GD30751@zork.net> <20030212074345.GM3113@localhost.localdomain> <20030212075346.GA30713@zork.net> <20030212075835.GN3113@localhost.localdomain> <20030212080106.GB30713@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030212084746.GO3113@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 12:01:06AM -0800, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote: > I dunno, I hear they're sort of like our FBI. I think they're > the only law officers in Canadia that can carry guns. It seems to me that there isn't anything wrong with this country that cannot be traced back to Canadia! -- Bob Bernstein From ebourg at cs.mcgill.ca Wed Feb 12 05:38:30 2003 From: ebourg at cs.mcgill.ca (Erik Bourget) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:05 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Eyecandy wank for windows In-Reply-To: <878ywmt4ix.fsf@enberg.org> References: <878ywmt4ix.fsf@enberg.org> Message-ID: <20030212133829.GA2614@mjollnir.odinnet> On Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 07:08:22AM +0100, Henrik Enberg wrote: > > at The company he keeps is pretty high-class. (07.Dec.2002) > > In other news: Jenny is really getting into her Mary Kay bussiness. She > plans on being able to work part time at Fred Meyers by this time next > year. She's really getting into all her stuff.. I should make her a > login or something so she can post here too. Either that or I could make > her her own subdomain ponder Christmas is coming up too! Yippy! > - erik -- erik bourget | "emacs outshines all other editing software in ebourg@cs.mcgill.ca | approximately the same way that the noonday sun ---------------------/ does the stars. It is not just bigger and brighter; it simply makes everything else vanish." - Neal Stephenson From adam at flounder.net Wed Feb 12 09:53:56 2003 From: adam at flounder.net (Adam McKenna) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: Dufus? Doofus? (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] By John Carlson. Please, Lord! I never want to hear another innocent librarian scream In-Reply-To: <20030211221802.GI3113@localhost.localdomain> References: <20030211153946.GW26391@flounder.net> <20030211164743.GA3087@localhost.localdomain> <20030211172856.GY26391@flounder.net> <20030211174804.GA6641@zork.net> <20030211174216.GZ26391@flounder.net> <20030211194248.GE3113@localhost.localdomain> <20030211193801.GC26391@flounder.net> <20030211201348.GF3113@localhost.localdomain> <20030211214842.GD26391@flounder.net> <20030211221802.GI3113@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20030212175356.GG26391@flounder.net> On Tue, Feb 11, 2003 at 05:18:02PM -0500, Bob Bernstein wrote: > On Tue, Feb 11, 2003 at 01:48:42PM -0800, Adam McKenna wrote: > > > Nice work, did you do that all by hand or did you make use of 'sed'? > > I just can't get anything past you huh Adam? God damn but you're a > bright one. Jesus Mary and Joseph you're smart. Your future is surely > bright indeed. Have confidence. Sleep like a baby. Everything's ok. No > need to worry about a single litte itsy-bitsy thing. It's all been > taken care of. You can relax now. Have a nice long hot soak in the > tub. Get something good to eat in your tummy. Go down the bar and buy > all your chums a drink or two. Spread the good cheer around. Rest > assured you'll never see it coming. Is this Vegas? Dammit, I told you to stop calling me at this number! From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Wed Feb 12 11:52:04 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: Dufus? Doofus? (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] By John Carlson. Please, Lord! I never want to hear another innocent librarian scream In-Reply-To: <20030212175356.GG26391@flounder.net> References: <20030211164743.GA3087@localhost.localdomain> <20030211172856.GY26391@flounder.net> <20030211174804.GA6641@zork.net> <20030211174216.GZ26391@flounder.net> <20030211194248.GE3113@localhost.localdomain> <20030211193801.GC26391@flounder.net> <20030211201348.GF3113@localhost.localdomain> <20030211214842.GD26391@flounder.net> <20030211221802.GI3113@localhost.localdomain> <20030212175356.GG26391@flounder.net> Message-ID: <20030212195204.GA4414@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 09:53:56AM -0800, Adam McKenna wrote: > Is this Vegas? Dammit, I told you to stop calling me at this number! Who are you kidding? Guys named "Adam" (or "Kyle" or "Taylor") don't get into trouble in Vegas. Know what I mean? -- Bob Bernstein From sander_traveling at yahoo.co.uk Tue Feb 11 07:58:25 2003 From: sander_traveling at yahoo.co.uk (Sander Vesik) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [Marketing] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference References: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209044353.9ED614F46@perens.com> <20030210153343.M5432@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030210170638.C7456@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <3E491DA1.9000007@yahoo.co.uk> With all due respect Ruben, but I think this is getting *WAY* off-topic for the OpenOffice.org marketing list - can you please give some consideration before indiscrimantly cc-ing it? This list is primarily about marketing OpenOffice.org and having long political (whetever real world political or open source internal political or some other ways political) flamewars on the list is just counterproductive. Could you *please* be a bit more diligent in the choice of which threads to cc: to this list and which not? Ruben I Safir wrote: > AND THE BEAT GOES ON.... > > Do not put Criminals on the egov-OS Panel! > > http://news.com.com/2100-1001-983988.html?tag=fd_top > > > A California woman is suing Microsoft, Symantec and some software > retailers, claiming the companies "concocted a scheme" to mislead > consumers by requiring them to consent to software licensing agreements > they haven't read. > > The suit, filed Friday in Marin County Superior Court in San Rafael, > Calif., seeks class-action status on behalf of all Californians who've > bought software including Norton Antivirus 2002, Norton Systemworks and > Windows XP Upgrade. > > Specifically, the suit, which was brought by Cathy Baker, claims that > Microsoft, Symantec, CompUSA, Best Buy and other unnamed retailers don't > allow people to read "shrink wrap" licenses--agreements printed inside > the box or incorporated into the software itself--before they buy a > product. > > "Defendants acted in concert and have concocted a scheme to sell > consumers in the state of California software licenses in retail stores > without allowing them to review the terms and conditions of such > software licenses prior to sale," Ira Rothken, Baker's lawyer, wrote in > the complaint. > > Further, the suit claims that people who don't accept the terms of the > agreement cannot return software to the stores. According to the suit, > Baker tried to return the Microsoft and Symantec software to CompUSA > after refusing to consent to the licensing terms. However, CompUSA > refused to take the software back, saying the packages had been opened, > according to the suit. > > End-user license agreements have become a hot-button issue in the tech > industry as more and more companies try to forge increasingly > restrictive contracts. Some companies have tried to ban class-action > lawsuits, damages or reverse engineering of their products. > > In one of the few cases so far to test the limits of such agreements, a > judge in New York ruled last month that Network Associates could not > enforce wording that prohibited reviews of its product without prior > consent. > > Representatives from Symantec, Microsoft and Best Buy did not > immediately respond to requests for comment. CompUSA executives could > not be reached for comment. > > O > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From nick at zork.net Wed Feb 12 13:51:24 2003 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] bubye UCITA Message-ID: <20030212215124.GD30713@zork.net> http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/02/11/HNucitafails_1.html Well, that's a baby step forward. From nick at zork.net Wed Feb 12 13:54:39 2003 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] jesux Message-ID: <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> http://alterslash.org/#Optimizing_Linux_Advocacy_Efforts Way to go Rubn. You're fucking over the whole effort just for your own little pissy soapbox. Get the fuck off my list. From thesubjugator at subjugation.org Wed Feb 12 14:07:36 2003 From: thesubjugator at subjugation.org (Subjugator of Port Jefferson and Conqueror of Long Island) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] jesux In-Reply-To: <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> References: <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> Message-ID: <1045087655.1182.15739.camel@dante> On Wed, 2003-02-12 at 16:54, Nick Moffitt wrote: > http://alterslash.org/#Optimizing_Linux_Advocacy_Efforts > > Way to go Rubn. You're fucking over the whole effort just for your > own little pissy soapbox. Get the fuck off my list. I seem to remember this sort of starting with the CEO complaining that "Open Source Product Excellence" awards are given to closed-source proprietary products under the banner of the UniForum Association. Go Brooklyn! -- "IBM has pursued a path of viewing Linux as a high-tech Esperanto," -- Sageza Group analyst Charles King From mikael at pawlo.com Wed Feb 12 14:23:15 2003 From: mikael at pawlo.com (Mikael Pawlo) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] jesux In-Reply-To: <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> Message-ID: At 13.54 -0800 03-02-12, Nick Moffitt wrote: >http://alterslash.org/#Optimizing_Linux_Advocacy_Efforts >Way to go Rubn. You're fucking over the whole effort just for your >own little pissy soapbox. Get the fuck off my list. "L1nukkz rul3z" may not be the best approach to win sympathy among the adult crew, but it is a great way to make governments and corporations turn away from free software. Bill Gates will soon send a check to a certain address in Brooklyn. Regards, Mikael _________________________________________________________________________ ICQ:35638414 mailto:mikael@pawlo.com +46-704-215825 http://www.pawlo.com/ From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Wed Feb 12 14:19:09 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] jesux In-Reply-To: <1045087655.1182.15739.camel@dante> References: <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <1045087655.1182.15739.camel@dante> Message-ID: <20030212221909.GA9361@zork.net> begin Subjugator of Port Jefferson and Conqueror of Long Island quotation: > I seem to remember this sort of starting with the CEO complaining > that "Open Source Product Excellence" awards are given to > closed-source proprietary products under the banner of the UniForum > Association. > > Go Brooklyn! And of course that's superbunk. But spamming 800 mailing lists plus newsforge trying to get everyone to see that RUBEN DOES NOT LIKE MICROSOFT GIVING A TALK AT A SILLY CONFERENCE is just giving spirited ideologues a BAD NAME. From mikael at pawlo.com Wed Feb 12 14:39:13 2003 From: mikael at pawlo.com (Mikael Pawlo) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] jesux In-Reply-To: <1045087655.1182.15739.camel@dante> References: <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> Message-ID: At 17.07 -0500 03-02-12, Subjugator of Port Jefferson and Conqueror of Long Island wrote: >On Wed, 2003-02-12 at 16:54, Nick Moffitt wrote: >> http://alterslash.org/#Optimizing_Linux_Advocacy_Efforts >> Way to go Rubn. You're fucking over the whole effort just for your >> own little pissy soapbox. Get the fuck off my list. >I seem to remember this sort of starting with the CEO complaining that >"Open Source Product Excellence" awards are given to closed-source >proprietary products under the banner of the UniForum Association. >Go Brooklyn! Larry Lessig was awarded the free software foundation award, ever felt like checking out his mail program? No - he would not be able to submit messages to Crackmonkey, but he's a great guy anyway. Sometimes matters of principle may burden your thoughts in mysterious ways that hinder success. Regards, Mikael _________________________________________________________________________ ICQ:35638414 mailto:mikael@pawlo.com +46-704-215825 http://www.pawlo.com/ From henrik at enberg.org Wed Feb 12 14:37:54 2003 From: henrik at enberg.org (Henrik Enberg) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: jesux In-Reply-To: (Mikael Pawlo's message of "Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:23:15 +0100") References: Message-ID: <87isvpdt19.fsf@enberg.org> Mikael Pawlo writes: > Bill Gates will soon send a check to a certain address in Brooklyn. Joe the Hyena's address? From joseph at nuasis.com Wed Feb 12 14:48:32 2003 From: joseph at nuasis.com (joseph@nuasis.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] jesux In-Reply-To: References: <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> Message-ID: <3E4ACF40.20107@nuasis.com> Mikael Pawlo wrote: >Larry Lessig was awarded the free software foundation award, ever felt like >checking out his mail program? > >No - he would not be able to submit messages to Crackmonkey, but he's a >great guy anyway. > > I'm pretty sure he could figure out how to get a message onto this list. From mikael at pawlo.com Wed Feb 12 14:58:59 2003 From: mikael at pawlo.com (Mikael Pawlo) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] jesux In-Reply-To: <3E4ACF40.20107@nuasis.com> References: <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> Message-ID: At 14.48 -0800 03-02-12, joseph@nuasis.com wrote: >>Larry Lessig was awarded the free software foundation award, ever felt like >>checking out his mail program? >>No - he would not be able to submit messages to Crackmonkey, but he's a >>great guy anyway. >I'm pretty sure he could figure out how to get a message onto this list. I am pretty sure the infamous Moffitt won't let Microsoft-Entourage users submit messages to the list without prior review, but thanks for playing! Mikael _________________________________________________________________________ ICQ:35638414 mailto:mikael@pawlo.com +46-704-215825 http://www.pawlo.com/ From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Wed Feb 12 14:59:26 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] jesux In-Reply-To: References: <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030212225926.GB9361@zork.net> begin Mikael Pawlo quotation: > I am pretty sure the infamous Moffitt won't let Microsoft-Entourage > users submit messages to the list without prior review, but thanks > for playing! And I'm willing to bet that Lessig can find the shell button on his little ibook and shell out to a box somewhere with mutt on it. Ever notice how it's only legislators and mac users who still use the prefix "Cyber"? From mikael at pawlo.com Wed Feb 12 15:07:10 2003 From: mikael at pawlo.com (Mikael Pawlo) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] jesux In-Reply-To: References: <3E4ACF40.20107@nuasis.com> <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> Message-ID: At 23.58 +0100 03-02-12, Mikael Pawlo wrote: >At 14.48 -0800 03-02-12, joseph@nuasis.com wrote: >>>Larry Lessig was awarded the free software foundation award, ever felt like >>>checking out his mail program? >>>No - he would not be able to submit messages to Crackmonkey, but he's a >>>great guy anyway. >>I'm pretty sure he could figure out how to get a message onto this list. >I am pretty sure the infamous Moffitt won't let Microsoft-Entourage users >submit messages to the list without prior review, but thanks for playing! More on the subject of Crackmonkey purism: http://www.gnuheter.com/article.php?sid=1188 and http://crackmonkey.org/pipermail/crackmonkey/2002q1/025865.html and http://slashdot.org/articles/02/01/28/1853253.shtml ...turns out Ruben may not be too infantile according to Moffitt's standards after all! (yeah, I know, now I should gtfonm's l!) Regards, Mikael _________________________________________________________________________ ICQ:35638414 mailto:mikael@pawlo.com +46-704-215825 http://www.pawlo.com/ From joseph at nuasis.com Wed Feb 12 15:04:01 2003 From: joseph at nuasis.com (joseph@nuasis.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] jesux In-Reply-To: References: <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> Message-ID: <3E4AD2E1.4020505@nuasis.com> Mikael Pawlo wrote: >I am pretty sure the infamous Moffitt won't let Microsoft-Entourage users >submit messages to the list without prior review, but thanks for playing! > > And of course, it's impossible to send email under a pseudonym. I keep forgetting that. From dmarti at zgp.org Wed Feb 12 15:10:33 2003 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] jesux In-Reply-To: References: <3E4ACF40.20107@nuasis.com> <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030212231032.GG17039@zgp.org> begin Mikael Pawlo quotation of Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 12:07:10AM +0100: > ...turns out Ruben may not be too infantile according to Moffitt's > standards after all! (yeah, I know, now I should gtfonm's l!) _____ _ __ __ _ _ _ | ___| _ ___| | __ ___ / _|/ _| | |_ _ __ ___ | | | | |_ | | | |/ __| |/ / / _ \| |_| |_ | __| '__/ _ \| | | | _|| |_| | (__| < | (_) | _| _| | |_| | | (_) | | |_ |_| \__,_|\___|_|\_\ \___/|_| |_|( ) \__|_| \___/|_|_(_) |/ -- Don Marti Even if we don't get DMCA reform, loudly http://zgp.org/~dmarti demanding DMCA reform is going to get the dmarti@zgp.org injustice of the DMCA in front of the next KG6INA jury. Make noise. It counts. From jv at zork.net Wed Feb 12 15:15:44 2003 From: jv at zork.net (Juggler Vain) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: !?What the fuck (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] jesux) In-Reply-To: <20030212225926.GB9361@zork.net> References: <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <20030212225926.GB9361@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030212231543.GG744@zork.net> ?What... begin Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco quotation: [...] > use the prefix "Cyber"? ... oh, I thought he said "Cider". Never mind. !Hey Emily, wait up. -jv p.s... where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise From tomduffy at dslextreme.com Wed Feb 12 15:15:32 2003 From: tomduffy at dslextreme.com (Tom Duffy) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] jesux In-Reply-To: References: <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> Message-ID: <1045091732.31844.11.camel@biznatch> On Wed, 2003-02-12 at 14:58, Mikael Pawlo wrote: > I am pretty sure the infamous Moffitt won't let Microsoft-Entourage users > submit messages to the list without prior review, but thanks for playing! So, you are saying the Larry Lessig is not as smart as Larry Augustin. Lessig can't figure out how to filter out his X-Mailer? I also have no doubt that Moffitt would forward Lessig -- no matter what MUA -- he let in Perens with his filtered X-Mailer. What is it with Larrys and unfree MUAs anyways? -- "[ SUV drivers are ] insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors and communities." -- Keith Bradsher reporting on SUV automakers' own market research From unknown at panax.com Wed Feb 12 15:22:46 2003 From: unknown at panax.com (Patrick McFarland) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] jesux In-Reply-To: <1045091732.31844.11.camel@biznatch> References: <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <1045091732.31844.11.camel@biznatch> Message-ID: <20030212232245.GA543@panax.com> On 12-Feb-2003, Tom Duffy wrote: > > What is it with Larrys and unfree MUAs anyways? Its the Larry Conspiracy! -- Patrick "Diablo-D3" McFarland || unknown@panax.com "Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989 From mikael at pawlo.com Wed Feb 12 15:29:37 2003 From: mikael at pawlo.com (Mikael Pawlo) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] jesux In-Reply-To: <1045091732.31844.11.camel@biznatch> References: <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> Message-ID: At 15.15 -0800 03-02-12, Tom Duffy wrote: >On Wed, 2003-02-12 at 14:58, Mikael Pawlo wrote: >> I am pretty sure the infamous Moffitt won't let Microsoft-Entourage users >> submit messages to the list without prior review, but thanks for playing! >So, you are saying the Larry Lessig is not as smart as Larry Augustin. >Lessig can't figure out how to filter out his X-Mailer? I also have no >doubt that Moffitt would forward Lessig -- no matter what MUA -- he let >in Perens with his filtered X-Mailer. No, what I am saying is that Microsoft bashing is lame. Mikael _________________________________________________________________________ ICQ:35638414 mailto:mikael@pawlo.com +46-704-215825 http://www.pawlo.com/ From mikael at pawlo.com Wed Feb 12 15:30:19 2003 From: mikael at pawlo.com (Mikael Pawlo) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] jesux In-Reply-To: <20030212231032.GG17039@zgp.org> References: <3E4ACF40.20107@nuasis.com> <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> Message-ID: At 15.10 -0800 03-02-12, Don Marti wrote: >begin Mikael Pawlo quotation of Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 12:07:10AM +0100: > >> ...turns out Ruben may not be too infantile according to Moffitt's >> standards after all! (yeah, I know, now I should gtfonm's l!) > > _____ _ __ __ _ _ _ > | ___| _ ___| | __ ___ / _|/ _| | |_ _ __ ___ | | | > | |_ | | | |/ __| |/ / / _ \| |_| |_ | __| '__/ _ \| | | > | _|| |_| | (__| < | (_) | _| _| | |_| | | (_) | | |_ > |_| \__,_|\___|_|\_\ \___/|_| |_|( ) \__|_| \___/|_|_(_) > |/ I am not going to marry you now! M _________________________________________________________________________ ICQ:35638414 mailto:mikael@pawlo.com +46-704-215825 http://www.pawlo.com/ From mikael at pawlo.com Wed Feb 12 15:32:36 2003 From: mikael at pawlo.com (Mikael Pawlo) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] jesux In-Reply-To: <3E4AD2E1.4020505@nuasis.com> References: <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> Message-ID: At 15.04 -0800 03-02-12, joseph@nuasis.com wrote: >>I am pretty sure the infamous Moffitt won't let Microsoft-Entourage users >>submit messages to the list without prior review, but thanks for playing! >And of course, it's impossible to send email under a pseudonym. I keep >forgetting that. I think larry@hotmail.com and yrral@hotmail.com would encounter similar Crackmonkey problems, but then again you may have another pseudonym for pseudonym than I do. Maybe pseudonym to you is another word for mutt? Where is Rick Moen when you need him? Mikael _________________________________________________________________________ ICQ:35638414 mailto:mikael@pawlo.com +46-704-215825 http://www.pawlo.com/ From tomduffy at dslextreme.com Wed Feb 12 15:30:40 2003 From: tomduffy at dslextreme.com (Tom Duffy) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] jesux In-Reply-To: References: <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> Message-ID: <1045092640.31835.14.camel@biznatch> On Wed, 2003-02-12 at 15:29, Mikael Pawlo wrote: > To: Tom Duffy > Cc: crackmonkey@crackmonkey.org Time to break out the clue-by-four. -- "[ SUV drivers are ] insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors and communities." -- Keith Bradsher reporting on SUV automakers' own market research From mikael at pawlo.com Wed Feb 12 15:37:30 2003 From: mikael at pawlo.com (Mikael Pawlo) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] jesux In-Reply-To: <20030212232245.GA543@panax.com> References: <1045091732.31844.11.camel@biznatch> <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <1045091732.31844.11.camel@biznatch> Message-ID: At 18.22 -0500 03-02-12, Patrick McFarland wrote: >> What is it with Larrys and unfree MUAs anyways? >Its the Larry Conspiracy! Don't look at me, I have been brainwashed by the Berne convention! Mikael _________________________________________________________________________ ICQ:35638414 mailto:mikael@pawlo.com +46-704-215825 http://www.pawlo.com/ From andy at strugglers.net Wed Feb 12 15:34:47 2003 From: andy at strugglers.net (Andy Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] jesux In-Reply-To: References: <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030212233447.GV19676@lug.org.uk> On Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 12:29:37AM +0100, Mikael Pawlo wrote: > No, what I am saying is that Microsoft bashing is lame. > d00d mod this UP! +1 insightful. From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Wed Feb 12 15:38:16 2003 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (J. M. Brenner) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [Marketing] Re: [hangout] Re: [fairuse] Re: E-Gov-OS conference In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 11 Feb 2003 15:58:25 GMT." <3E491DA1.9000007@yahoo.co.uk> References: <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030209044353.9ED614F46@perens.com> <20030210153343.M5432@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030210170638.C7456@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <3E491DA1.9000007@yahoo.co.uk> Message-ID: <200302122338.h1CNcH091522@mail0.rawbw.com> The subject line is getting pretty cool on this, I have to say. Maybe I should forward it to the balug list, and ask someone there to forward it to sfpug, and at that point we should have enough [BONEWIT] tags inserted at the beginning of the line to completely fill the screen. Too bad SVLUG doesn't have something like a [Silicon Valley Linux Users Group Leet Attack Squad] subject tag, then you could practically score a hole in one. From dmarti at zgp.org Wed Feb 12 15:40:43 2003 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] jesux In-Reply-To: <20030212232245.GA543@panax.com> References: <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <1045091732.31844.11.camel@biznatch> <20030212232245.GA543@panax.com> Message-ID: <20030212234043.GJ17039@zgp.org> begin Patrick McFarland quotation of Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 06:22:46PM -0500: > On 12-Feb-2003, Tom Duffy wrote: > > > > What is it with Larrys and unfree MUAs anyways? > > Its the Larry Conspiracy! http://www.unisys.com/about__unisys/investors/management/weinbach.htm -- Don Marti Even if we don't get DMCA reform, loudly http://zgp.org/~dmarti demanding DMCA reform is going to get the dmarti@zgp.org injustice of the DMCA in front of the next KG6INA jury. Make noise. It counts. From mikael at pawlo.com Wed Feb 12 15:48:33 2003 From: mikael at pawlo.com (Mikael Pawlo) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] jesux In-Reply-To: <20030212225926.GB9361@zork.net> References: <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> Message-ID: At 14.59 -0800 03-02-12, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote: (---) > Ever notice how it's only legislators and mac users who still >use the prefix "Cyber"? You forget about the pr0n, making it the holy cyber trinity! M _________________________________________________________________________ ICQ:35638414 mailto:mikael@pawlo.com +46-704-215825 http://www.pawlo.com/ From mikael at pawlo.com Wed Feb 12 15:56:13 2003 From: mikael at pawlo.com (Mikael Pawlo) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] jesux In-Reply-To: <20030212234043.GJ17039@zgp.org> References: <20030212232245.GA543@panax.com> <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <1045091732.31844.11.camel@biznatch> <20030212232245.GA543@panax.com> Message-ID: At 15.40 -0800 03-02-12, Don Marti wrote: >begin Patrick McFarland quotation of Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 06:22:46PM -0500: >> On 12-Feb-2003, Tom Duffy wrote >> > What is it with Larrys and unfree MUAs anyways? >> Its the Larry Conspiracy! > >http://www.unisys.com/about__unisys/investors/management/weinbach.htm THAT IS A JPEG! http://www.unisys.com/corporate/images/about__unisys/bio_photos/photo_weinbach_l g.jpg M _________________________________________________________________________ ICQ:35638414 mailto:mikael@pawlo.com +46-704-215825 http://www.pawlo.com/ From nick at zork.net Wed Feb 12 17:32:00 2003 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification] Message-ID: <20030213013200.GD9361@zork.net> They don't like the list, but they never post anything worthwhile. ----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net ----- mwmiller@columbus.rr.com has been removed from CrackMonkey. ----- End forwarded message ----- From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Wed Feb 12 19:36:13 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification] In-Reply-To: <20030213013200.GD9361@zork.net> References: <20030213013200.GD9361@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030213033613.GH4414@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 05:32:00PM -0800, Nick Moffitt wrote: > They don't like the list, but they never post anything worthwhile. > mwmiller@columbus.rr.com has been removed from CrackMonkey. Like this 'jesux' thread with a gzillion messages is "worthwhile"? -- Bob Bernstein From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Wed Feb 12 20:02:14 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification] In-Reply-To: <20030213033613.GH4414@localhost.localdomain> References: <20030213013200.GD9361@zork.net> <20030213033613.GH4414@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20030213040214.GF9361@zork.net> begin Bob Bernstein quotation: > On Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 05:32:00PM -0800, Nick Moffitt wrote: > > They don't like the list, but they never post anything worthwhile. > > > mwmiller@columbus.rr.com has been removed from CrackMonkey. > > Like this 'jesux' thread with a gzillion messages is "worthwhile"? NO, it wasn't. And that's PRECISELY the sort of thing that mwmiller WASN'T HELPING WITH by NOT POSTING anything worthwhile. From slacker at linuxcowboy.org Wed Feb 12 20:18:53 2003 From: slacker at linuxcowboy.org (lehi k davis) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification] In-Reply-To: <20030213040214.GF9361@zork.net> References: <20030213013200.GD9361@zork.net> <20030213033613.GH4414@localhost.localdomain> <20030213040214.GF9361@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030213041853.GA30985@linuxcowboy.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Thus spake Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco, on Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 08:02:14PM -0800: > begin Bob Bernstein quotation: > > On Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 05:32:00PM -0800, Nick Moffitt wrote: > > > They don't like the list, but they never post anything worthwhile. > > > > > mwmiller@columbus.rr.com has been removed from CrackMonkey. > > > > Like this 'jesux' thread with a gzillion messages is "worthwhile"? > > NO, it wasn't. And that's PRECISELY the sort of thing that > mwmiller WASN'T HELPING WITH by NOT POSTING anything worthwhile. > but there are some of us that just like reading the banter and not get ripped a new one! .l. - -- lehi k davis [ slacker at linuxcowboy dot org ] (o- Me fail English? That's unpossible. /\ -- Ralph Wiggum v_/_ [ www.linuxcowboy.org | gpg: 0x6A1E834C ] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+Sxyrw7huR2oeg0wRAktJAKCtFxTicZpBpYp3MmqYv+n7QhyV7wCfap8u tKs4LX5UgrDIEf31eVsD4XI= =m0jZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Wed Feb 12 20:27:11 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification] In-Reply-To: <20030213033613.GH4414@localhost.localdomain> References: <20030213013200.GD9361@zork.net> <20030213033613.GH4414@localhost.localdomain> <20030213033613.GH4414@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1045110431.3e4b1e9f881ff@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco : > NO, it wasn't. And that's PRECISELY the sort of thing that > mwmiller WASN'T HELPING WITH by NOT POSTING anything worthwhile. Then with deepest regret I must inform you that we are in complete areement, which means of course that I have nothing more to say or post on the matter. In lieu of that I suggest everyone go read Michael Kelly's comments on the German foreign minister: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59725-2003Feb11.html -- Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several USA streams from abroad. (Swift) From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Wed Feb 12 20:49:05 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification] In-Reply-To: <20030213041853.GA30985@linuxcowboy.org> References: <20030213013200.GD9361@zork.net> <20030213033613.GH4414@localhost.localdomain> <20030213040214.GF9361@zork.net> <20030213041853.GA30985@linuxcowboy.org> Message-ID: <20030213044905.GG9361@zork.net> begin lehi k davis quotation: > but there are some of us that just like reading the banter and not > get ripped a new one! http://linuxcowboy.org/ss/2002_06_05_223232_shot.jpg <-- emad From slacker at linuxcowboy.org Wed Feb 12 21:03:28 2003 From: slacker at linuxcowboy.org (lehi k davis) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification] In-Reply-To: <20030213044905.GG9361@zork.net> References: <20030213013200.GD9361@zork.net> <20030213033613.GH4414@localhost.localdomain> <20030213040214.GF9361@zork.net> <20030213041853.GA30985@linuxcowboy.org> <20030213044905.GG9361@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030213050328.GB30985@linuxcowboy.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Thus spake Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco, on Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 08:49:05PM -0800: > begin lehi k davis quotation: > > but there are some of us that just like reading the banter and not > > get ripped a new one! > > http://linuxcowboy.org/ss/2002_06_05_223232_shot.jpg <-- emad > well, i should at least be happy that i'm not a kook. .l. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+Sycew7huR2oeg0wRAnSZAJ4nr3ndwKmrocvCq7TWD6c56wEHMgCdGAro 1paX9EawlmCS9oOpqcKhxv8= =tGvC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ebourg at cs.mcgill.ca Wed Feb 12 21:17:51 2003 From: ebourg at cs.mcgill.ca (Erik Bourget) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] jesux In-Reply-To: <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> References: <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030213051751.GB3281@mjollnir.odinnet> On Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 01:54:39PM -0800, Nick Moffitt wrote: > http://alterslash.org/#Optimizing_Linux_Advocacy_Efforts > > Way to go Rubn. You're fucking over the whole effort just for your > own little pissy soapbox. Get the fuck off my list. I mean, trolling Ruben is noble and everything, but doing so with a slashdot link? Poor form. - erik -- erik bourget | "emacs outshines all other editing software in ebourg@cs.mcgill.ca | approximately the same way that the noonday sun ---------------------/ does the stars. It is not just bigger and brighter; it simply makes everything else vanish." - Neal Stephenson From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Wed Feb 12 21:28:14 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] jesux In-Reply-To: <20030213051751.GB3281@mjollnir.odinnet> References: <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <20030213051751.GB3281@mjollnir.odinnet> Message-ID: <20030213052814.GH9361@zork.net> begin Erik Bourget quotation: > I mean, trolling Ruben is noble and everything, but doing so with a > slashdot link? Poor form. Oh yeah, like NEWSFORGE was any good. From dmarti at zgp.org Thu Feb 13 09:26:25 2003 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] that'll fix'em! Message-ID: <20030213172625.GC2937@zgp.org> Yeah, well now that they've been reported to SpamCop, everything will be just fine. ----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:03:49 -0500 From: Declan McCullagh Subject: FC: Spam Arrest does appear to be resorting to... spamming To: politech@politechbot.com Cc: support@spamarrest.com, pr@spamarrest.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Sender: owner-politech@politechbot.com Reply-To: declan@well.com X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/ X-Author: Declan McCullagh is at http://www.mccullagh.org/ X-News-Site: Cluebot is at http://www.cluebot.com/ X-Spam-Level: Previous Politech message: http://www.politechbot.com/p-04454.html --- From: "Suresh Ramasubramanian" To: Subject: Re: Is Spam Arrest resorting to... spamming? Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 20:04:10 +0530 On Thursday, February 13, 2003 7:06 PM [GMT+0530=IST], Declan McCullagh wrote: > [Neil has been a reliable contributor to Politech for a while on the > topic of spam. But naturally I will give Spam Arrest the right of > reply, and forward unedited any response they choose to provide. > --Declan] More than one person has reported receiving this - spamarrest has apparently sent this letter to _anybody_ who sent mail to a spamarrest customer. This repurposing of addresses is blatant optout spam ... none of the people who sent mail to a spamarrest subscriber should be expected to receive solicitations from spamarrest. For what its worth, I was blocking spamarrest's IP as an open relay (running an antiquated version of CommuniGate Pro) which had relayed spam to our users, since the past several weeks. So, none of my users will have got this solicitation from them. srs --- rom: Amos Satterlee To: "'declan@well.com'" Subject: RE: Is Spam Arrest resorting to... spamming? Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:00:40 -0500 Yeah, I got one, too. Addressed to our Sys Admin account, which is only a receive account. Funny thing is that they didn't send one to my person account. Definitely dictionary spam. Amos --- From: David Bolduc To: "'declan@well.com'" Subject: RE: Is Spam Arrest resorting to... spamming? Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 08:22:34 -0600 Me too. I have *no* recollection of having sent an email to a SpamArrest customer, or of visiting the SpamArrest site. --- From: "Brian Durham" To: Subject: Re: Is Spam Arrest resorting to... spamming? Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 08:15:11 -0600 Declan: I received that email from Spam Arrest Wednesday - same circumstances. Best, Brian Durham --- Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 08:24:17 -0600 From: Kenneth Loafman To: declan@well.com Cc: politech@politechbot.com, support@spamarrest.com, pr@spamarrest.com Subject: Re: FC: Is Spam Arrest resorting to... spamming? As a matter of fact they are spamming. I got one in the mail this morning. I do remember responding to a SpamArrest customer, but that does not give SpamArrest itself permission to contact me. Promptly reported to SpamCop. ...Ken --- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. To subscribe to Politech: http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Like Politech? Make a donation here: http://www.politechbot.com/donate/ Recent CNET News.com articles: http://news.search.com/search?q=declan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Don Marti Even if we don't get DMCA reform, loudly http://zgp.org/~dmarti demanding DMCA reform is going to get the dmarti@zgp.org injustice of the DMCA in front of the next KG6INA jury. Make noise. It counts. From nick at zork.net Thu Feb 13 11:27:41 2003 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification] Message-ID: <20030213192741.GJ9361@zork.net> ha ha dyndns ----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net ----- orion@tribble.dyndns.org has been removed from CrackMonkey. ----- End forwarded message ----- From nick at zork.net Thu Feb 13 17:07:12 2003 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] ssh patch Message-ID: <20030214010712.GL9361@zork.net> Hey look, chrooted openssh! --- session.c Wed Jun 26 06:51:06 2002 +++ session.c.patched Wed Jun 26 10:35:47 2002 @@ -64,6 +64,8 @@ #define is_winnt (GetVersion() < 0x80000000) #endif +#define CHROOT 1 + /* func */ Session *session_new(void); @@ -1160,6 +1162,10 @@ do_setusercontext(struct passwd *pw) { char tty='\0'; +#ifdef CHROOT + char *user_dir; + char *new_root; +#endif /* CHROOT */ #ifdef HAVE_CYGWIN if (is_winnt) { @@ -1205,6 +1211,27 @@ */ do_pam_setcred(0); # endif /* USE_PAM */ + +#ifdef CHROOT + user_dir = xstrdup(pw->pw_dir); + new_root = user_dir + 1; + + while((new_root = strchr(new_root, '.')) != NULL) { + new_root--; + if(strncmp(new_root, "/./", 3) == 0) { + *new_root = '\0'; + new_root += 2; + + if(chroot(user_dir) != 0) + fatal("Couldn't chroot to user directory %s", user_dir); + + pw->pw_dir = new_root; + break; + } + new_root += 2; + } +#endif /* CHROOT */ + # if defined(WITH_IRIX_PROJECT) || defined(WITH_IRIX_JOBS) || defined(WITH_IRIX_ARRAY) irix_setusercontext(pw); # endif /* defined(WITH_IRIX_PROJECT) || defined(WITH_IRIX_JOBS) || defined(WITH_IRIX_ARRAY) */ From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu Fri Feb 14 07:43:58 2003 From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] ssh patch In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:07:12 PST." <20030214010712.GL9361@zork.net> References: <20030214010712.GL9361@zork.net> Message-ID: <200302141543.h1EFhwwZ017834@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:07:12 PST, Nick Moffitt said: > + while((new_root = strchr(new_root, '.')) != NULL) { Which does The Wrong Thing if new_root is /home/users/george.benson or some such. From ebourg at cs.mcgill.ca Fri Feb 14 08:21:02 2003 From: ebourg at cs.mcgill.ca (Erik Bourget) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Plebiscite In-Reply-To: <20030212051647.GK3113@localhost.localdomain> (Bob Bernstein's message of "Wed, 12 Feb 2003 00:16:47 -0500") References: <20030211005217.GC20623@localhost.localdomain> <20030211010100.GB9229@zgp.org> <20030211011145.GF20623@localhost.localdomain> <20030210201535.G9486@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20030210201535.G9486@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <1044944989.3e48985d8002f@webmail.spamcop.net> <20030212044117.GB24139@odinnet.ath.cx> <20030212051647.GK3113@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <87fzqq6dg1.fsf@floyd.sus.mcgill.ca> Bob Bernstein writes: > On Tue, Feb 11, 2003 at 11:41:18PM -0500, Erik Bourget wrote: > >> > You're going to announce on crackmonkey that something Canadian is >> > "brilliant?" Wow, brave fellow! >> >> I'm battle hardened, being an American living in Quebec. > > Ah. Thickened skin, stiff upper lip, and all that, eh? Maple syrup pumping in the veins :D >> Watch the Canadian movie. It's roughly a synonym to "try very hard, at >> one's potential." > > Not to put too fine a point on it, but what is "the Canadian movie?" Fubar. Read your thread. >> Why does "watch the Canadian movie" read like "read the fucking manual?" > > It doesn't sound like that to me, but then I don't yet know what > you're talking about! Stiffen that lip, sailor. -- erik bourget | "emacs outshines all other editing software in ebourg@cs.mcgill.ca | approximately the same way that the noonday sun ---------------------/ does the stars. It is not just bigger and brighter; it simply makes everything else vanish." - Neal Stephenson From sam at dasbistro.com Fri Feb 14 08:31:40 2003 From: sam at dasbistro.com (Sam Phillips) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] ssh patch In-Reply-To: <20030214010712.GL9361@zork.net> References: <20030214010712.GL9361@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030214163140.GJ10424@dasbistro.com> On Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 05:07:12PM -0800, Nick Moffitt wrote: > Hey look, chrooted openssh! > Look ma! No patch! http://www.gsyc.inf.uc3m.es/~assman/jail/ (Also "ha ha assman") -- Sam Phillips http://www.dasbistro.com/~sam Das Bistro Heavy Industries Histogram Valley, Nevada From nick at zork.net Fri Feb 14 13:03:35 2003 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] "We will be Open Source pure." Message-ID: <20030214210335.GC8910@zork.net> http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/01/27/1118251 Ha ha. From lists at kassube.de Fri Feb 14 13:45:44 2003 From: lists at kassube.de (Larry Ists) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] jesux In-Reply-To: <20030212232245.GA543@panax.com> (Patrick McFarland's message of "Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:22:46 -0500") References: <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <20030212215439.GE30713@zork.net> <1045091732.31844.11.camel@biznatch> <20030212232245.GA543@panax.com> Message-ID: <81d6lu1qpj.fsf@darwin.lan.kassube.de> Patrick McFarland writes: > Its the Larry Conspiracy! There is no Larry conspiracy. We are nice people. We have small children, too. Don't we bleed -- exactly like you -- when you cut our throat? From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Sat Feb 15 09:12:17 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [schneier@counterpane.com: Tomorrow's Crypto-Gram] Message-ID: <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> This just in: (well, er, not really, but what the hey.) ----- Forwarded message from Bruce Schneier ----- Mailing-List: contact crypto-gram-help@chaparraltree.com; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: moderator for crypto-gram@chaparraltree.com X-Sender: schneier@counterpane.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:23:53 -0600 To: crypto-gram@chaparraltree.com From: Bruce Schneier Subject: Tomorrow's Crypto-Gram This is a preemptive note. Tomorrow I will be sending out the February CRYPTO-GRAM, as I do on the 15th of every month. In the process of creating this month's Crypto-Gram, I discovered that SpamAssassin thinks that this issue is spam, probably because of certain links and descriptions of scams in the text. I have anecdotal evidence that other spam filters block Crypto-Gram as well. I'm therefore taking the unusual step of sending you this note warning you that Crypto-Gram will shortly be on its way. If it doesn't show up in your mailbox, the most likely explanation is that your spam filter caught it. Your choices are either to adjust your spam filter (and if you have a spam filter that requests human verification, it will be replied to) or to read the issue online, at http://www.counterpane.com/crypto-gram-0302.html. I'd apologize for the inconvenience, but I'm not sure what I could do to make it less so -- I don't intend to alter my content to accommodate spam filters. Bruce Schneier ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Bob Bernstein From nick at zork.net Sat Feb 15 11:01:08 2003 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification] Message-ID: <20030215190108.GJ8910@zork.net> You won't like it, so just unsubscribe now. ----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net ----- apost@recalcitrant.org has been successfully subscribed to CrackMonkey. ----- End forwarded message ----- From henrik at enberg.org Sat Feb 15 11:01:32 2003 From: henrik at enberg.org (Henrik Enberg) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [schneier@counterpane.com: Tomorrow's Crypto-Gram] In-Reply-To: <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> (Bob Bernstein's message of "Sat, 15 Feb 2003 12:12:17 -0500") References: <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> Message-ID: <874r7574hf.fsf@enberg.org> Bob Bernstein writes: > This just in: (well, er, not really, but what the hey.) Well, isn't it nice of you to repost someting that only concerns people who already got that notice. From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Sat Feb 15 12:06:36 2003 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (J. M. Brenner) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Brainwash loses the Seal of Doom References: <20030215190108.GJ8910@zork.net> Message-ID: <200302152006.h1FK6aC99072@mail0.rawbw.com> Went by the Brainwash the yesterday and I was distressed to see that they have something on the menu they call "The New Burger of Doom". The original "Burger of Doom" was probably the best in town, but the new version is slicked up with crap like tequilla braised honey glazed bacon -- bleh. Three things that don't belong on burgers. Or with each other. Fucking California Cuisine. From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Sat Feb 15 12:11:46 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Brainwash loses the Seal of Doom In-Reply-To: <200302152006.h1FK6aC99072@mail0.rawbw.com> References: <20030215190108.GJ8910@zork.net> <200302152006.h1FK6aC99072@mail0.rawbw.com> Message-ID: <20030215201145.GL8910@zork.net> begin J. M. Brenner quotation: > Went by the Brainwash the yesterday and I was distressed to see that > they have something on the menu they call "The New Burger of Doom". > The original "Burger of Doom" was probably the best in town, but the > new version is slicked up with crap like tequilla braised honey > glazed bacon -- bleh. Three things that don't belong on burgers. > Or with each other. Fucking California Cuisine. Yeah, but you can play frozen-bubble on the neo-geos. From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Sat Feb 15 12:20:57 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Hitchens Message-ID: <1045340457.3e4ea1294620b@webmail.spamcop.net> "The best that can be said of the Iraqi army is that it has not recently lost a war against its own civilians." http://slate.msn.com/id/2078512/ -- Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several USA streams from abroad. (Swift) From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Sat Feb 15 12:33:37 2003 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (J. M. Brenner) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Hitchens In-Reply-To: Message from Bob Bernstein of "Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:20:57 EST." <1045340457.3e4ea1294620b@webmail.spamcop.net> References: <1045340457.3e4ea1294620b@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <200302152033.h1FKXbC04464@mail0.rawbw.com> Posting links to slate? Now you're just blatantly trolling. From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Sat Feb 15 12:48:20 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Hitchens In-Reply-To: Message from Bob Bernstein of "Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:20:57 EST." <1045340457.3e4ea1294620b@webmail.spamcop.net> References: <1045340457.3e4ea1294620b@webmail.spamcop.net> Message from Bob Bernstein of "Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:20:57 EST." <1045340457.3e4ea1294620b@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <1045342100.3e4ea794c0867@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting "J. M. Brenner" : > Posting links to slate? Now you're just blatantly > trolling. Clearly you spend too much time reading email lists. Don't shoot the messenger. -- Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several USA streams from abroad. (Swift) From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Sat Feb 15 13:58:55 2003 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (J. M. Brenner) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Hitchens In-Reply-To: Message from Bob Bernstein of "Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:48:20 EST." <1045342100.3e4ea794c0867@webmail.spamcop.net> References: <1045340457.3e4ea1294620b@webmail.spamcop.net> Message from Bob Bernstein of "Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:20:57 EST." <1045340457.3e4ea1294620b@webmail.spamcop.net> <1045342100.3e4ea794c0867@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <200302152158.h1FLwtC19927@mail0.rawbw.com> > Clearly you spend too much time reading email lists. Probably. I'm still all giddy because I finally got nmh to compile with apop support. It'll die down. > Don't shoot the messenger. If a man can't shoot his messenger, he might as well move to Canada. From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Sat Feb 15 14:05:23 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [schneier@counterpane.com: Tomorrow's Crypto-Gram] In-Reply-To: <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> (Bob Bernstein's message of "Sat, 15 Feb 2003 12:12:17 -0500") References: <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> (Bob Bernstein's message of "Sat, 15 Feb 2003 12:12:17 -0500") Message-ID: <1045346723.3e4eb9a33fc3b@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting Henrik Enberg : > Well, isn't it nice of you to repost someting that only concerns > people who already got that notice. I see several things going on here. 1. Your intrinsically bitchy nature has gotten the better of you...again. 2. The fascinating implication is that only material pertinent to already-posted items should be sent to the list. 3. Finally, if you were _really_ intent on limiting extraneous and/or irrelevant input yuu would unsubscribe immediately. But that would conflict with #1 above: you need someplace to grumble, grouse, and - as noted - bitch. 4. What a silly waste of time it is to reply to you at all! -- Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several USA streams from abroad. (Swift) From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Sat Feb 15 14:09:20 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Hitchens In-Reply-To: Message from Bob Bernstein of "Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:48:20 EST." <1045342100.3e4ea794c0867@webmail.spamcop.net> References: <1045340457.3e4ea1294620b@webmail.spamcop.net> Message from Bob Bernstein of "Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:20:57 EST." <1045340457.3e4ea1294620b@webmail.spamcop.net> <1045342100.3e4ea794c0867@webmail.spamcop.net> Message from Bob Bernstein of "Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:48:20 EST." <1045342100.3e4ea794c0867@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <1045346960.3e4eba90d50b2@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting "J. M. Brenner" : > Probably. I'm still all giddy because I finally got nmh > to compile with apop support. More to the point, you've trained it not to cc to me personally! > If a man can't shoot his messenger, he might as > well move to Canada. As was recently pointed out here, make that "Canadia." -- Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several USA streams from abroad. (Swift) From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Sat Feb 15 14:23:34 2003 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (J. M. Brenner) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Hitchens In-Reply-To: Message from Bob Bernstein of "Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:09:20 EST." <1045346960.3e4eba90d50b2@webmail.spamcop.net> References: <1045340457.3e4ea1294620b@webmail.spamcop.net> Message from Bob Bernstein of "Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:20:57 EST." <1045340457.3e4ea1294620b@webmail.spamcop.net> <1045342100.3e4ea794c0867@webmail.spamcop.net> Message from Bob Bernstein of "Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:48:20 EST." <1045342100.3e4ea794c0867@webmail.spamcop.net> <1045346960.3e4eba90d50b2@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <200302152223.h1FMNYC24553@mail0.rawbw.com> Bob Bernstein wrote: > Quoting "J. M. Brenner" : > > > Probably. I'm still all giddy because I finally got nmh > > to compile with apop support. > > More to the point, you've trained it not to cc to me personally! No, that would be my highly trained emacsified flying fingers. The joy of emacs is that it's infinitely customizable, the pain is that it's frequently just easier to get used to something being busted and work around it. From bker at yage.net Sat Feb 15 15:04:05 2003 From: bker at yage.net (bker@yage.net) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [schneier@counterpane.com: Tomorrow's Crypto-Gram] In-Reply-To: <1045346723.3e4eb9a33fc3b@webmail.spamcop.net> References: <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <1045346723.3e4eb9a33fc3b@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <20030215230405.GA1893@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 05:05:23PM -0500, Bob Bernstein wrote: > 4. What a silly waste of time it is to reply to you at all! PLEASE shut up. From bker at yage.net Sat Feb 15 15:07:16 2003 From: bker at yage.net (bker@yage.net) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [schneier@counterpane.com: Tomorrow's Crypto-Gram] In-Reply-To: <1045346723.3e4eb9a33fc3b@webmail.spamcop.net> References: <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <1045346723.3e4eb9a33fc3b@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <20030215230716.GB1893@localhost.localdomain> ...and fix your fucking threading. From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Sat Feb 15 17:11:19 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [schneier@counterpane.com: Tomorrow's Crypto-Gram] In-Reply-To: <20030215230405.GA1893@localhost.localdomain> References: <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <1045346723.3e4eb9a33fc3b@webmail.spamcop.net> <20030215230405.GA1893@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20030216011118.GA5360@localhost> On Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 06:04:05PM -0500, bker@yage.net wrote: > PLEASE shut up. -- Bob Bernstein From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Sat Feb 15 17:12:22 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [schneier@counterpane.com: Tomorrow's Crypto-Gram] In-Reply-To: <20030215230716.GB1893@localhost.localdomain> References: <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <1045346723.3e4eb9a33fc3b@webmail.spamcop.net> <20030215230716.GB1893@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20030216011222.GB5360@localhost> On Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 06:07:16PM -0500, bker@yage.net wrote: > ...and fix your fucking threading. Say pretty please. -- Bob Bernstein From bker at yage.net Sat Feb 15 17:37:00 2003 From: bker at yage.net (bker@yage.net) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [schneier@counterpane.com: Tomorrow's Crypto-Gram] In-Reply-To: <20030216011222.GB5360@localhost> References: <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <1045346723.3e4eb9a33fc3b@webmail.spamcop.net> <20030215230716.GB1893@localhost.localdomain> <20030216011222.GB5360@localhost> Message-ID: <20030216013700.GC1893@localhost.localdomain> > User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Thank you. From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Sat Feb 15 18:57:16 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [schneier@counterpane.com: Tomorrow's Crypto-Gram] In-Reply-To: <20030216011222.GB5360@localhost> References: <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <1045346723.3e4eb9a33fc3b@webmail.spamcop.net> <20030215230716.GB1893@localhost.localdomain> <20030216011222.GB5360@localhost> <20030216011222.GB5360@localhost> Message-ID: <1045364236.3e4efe0cbd951@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting bker@yage.net: > > User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i > > Thank you. -- Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several USA streams from abroad. (Swift) From carlos at laviola.org Sun Feb 16 08:51:29 2003 From: carlos at laviola.org (Carlos Laviola) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [schneier@counterpane.com: Tomorrow's Crypto-Gram] In-Reply-To: <1045364236.3e4efe0cbd951@webmail.spamcop.net> References: <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <1045346723.3e4eb9a33fc3b@webmail.spamcop.net> <20030215230716.GB1893@localhost.localdomain> <20030216011222.GB5360@localhost> <20030216011222.GB5360@localhost> <1045364236.3e4efe0cbd951@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <20030216165129.GB6953@laviola.org> On Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 09:57:16PM -0500, Bob Bernstein wrote: > Quoting bker@yage.net: > > > > User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i > > > > Thank you. > > Man, what is it with IMP and threading? God damn it. -- Carlos Laviola From magnus at bodin.org Sun Feb 16 09:13:19 2003 From: magnus at bodin.org (Magnus Bodin) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [schneier@counterpane.com: Tomorrow's Crypto-Gram] In-Reply-To: <874r7574hf.fsf@enberg.org> References: <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <874r7574hf.fsf@enberg.org> Message-ID: <20030216171319.GA16894@bodin.org> On Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 08:01:32PM +0100, Henrik Enberg wrote: > Bob Bernstein writes: > > > This just in: (well, er, not really, but what the hey.) > > Well, isn't it nice of you to repost someting that only concerns people > who already got that notice. Well, not really. The interesting thing was 1. That a regular newsletter is catched in Spamassassin (not very interesting, maybe) 2. Bruce tested it in Spamassassin before he sent it out. (Nice) 3. Apparently he found it good to write a pre-message that was tested negative (ham) in earths biggest spam-regex-collection and then send that out. I guess that spammers will start using (3) if they haven't done it yet. Personally, I've turned to bogofilter in favour of SA. /magnus -- http://x42.com From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Sun Feb 16 12:22:40 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Accepting proposals Message-ID: <20030216202240.GA6939@localhost> Don Saklad : BPL :: ? : crackmonkey -- Bob Bernstein http://ruptured-duck.com/blog From crackdonkey at donkeyshow.org Sun Feb 16 12:52:24 2003 From: crackdonkey at donkeyshow.org (#2 of Berkeley) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Accepting proposals In-Reply-To: <20030216202240.GA6939@localhost> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Feb 2003, Bob Bernstein wrote: > Don Saklad : BPL :: ? : crackmonkey orange dick From dsaklad at zurich.ai.mit.edu Sun Feb 16 15:00:58 2003 From: dsaklad at zurich.ai.mit.edu (Don Saklad) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] http://my.gnus.org/GDG/basic/show_form Message-ID: Of interest... http://my.gnus.org/GDG/ http://my.gnus.org/GDG/basic/show_form http://my.gnus.org/GDG/smtp/show_form http://my.gnus.org/ From ebourg at cs.mcgill.ca Sun Feb 16 13:53:20 2003 From: ebourg at cs.mcgill.ca (Erik Bourget) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [schneier@counterpane.com: Tomorrow's Crypto-Gram] In-Reply-To: <20030216171319.GA16894@bodin.org> References: <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <874r7574hf.fsf@enberg.org> <20030216171319.GA16894@bodin.org> Message-ID: <87r8a77uzz.fsf@mjollnir.odinnet> Magnus Bodin writes: > On Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 08:01:32PM +0100, Henrik Enberg wrote: > > Bob Bernstein writes: > > > > > This just in: (well, er, not really, but what the hey.) > > > > Well, isn't it nice of you to repost someting that only concerns people > > who already got that notice. > > Well, not really. > > The interesting thing was > > 1. That a regular newsletter is catched in Spamassassin (not very > interesting, maybe) > 2. Bruce tested it in Spamassassin before he sent it out. (Nice) > 3. Apparently he found it good to write a pre-message that was tested > negative (ham) in earths biggest spam-regex-collection and then > send that out. > > I guess that spammers will start using (3) if they haven't done it yet. > > Personally, I've turned to bogofilter in favour of SA. > > /magnus So then, it's not really in favor of SA, is it? And get that 'u' out of the word favor, this is the United States of America, where we follow George W. Bush, our leader, and the supreme dialect of English, American. - erik -- erik bourget | "emacs outshines all other editing software in ebourg@cs.mcgill.ca | approximately the same way that the noonday sun ---------------------/ does the stars. It is not just bigger and brighter; it simply makes everything else vanish." - Neal Stephenson From ebourg at cs.mcgill.ca Sun Feb 16 15:56:03 2003 From: ebourg at cs.mcgill.ca (Erik Bourget) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] http://my.gnus.org/GDG/basic/show_form In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87isvjwzjg.fsf@mjollnir.odinnet> Don Saklad writes: > Of interest... > > http://my.gnus.org/GDG/ > http://my.gnus.org/GDG/basic/show_form > http://my.gnus.org/GDG/smtp/show_form > http://my.gnus.org/ > Is this in response to my recent post (using gnus)? I just switched and worry that I have made some cardinal mistake of emacs mail. - erik -- erik bourget | "emacs outshines all other editing software in ebourg@cs.mcgill.ca | approximately the same way that the noonday sun ---------------------/ does the stars. It is not just bigger and brighter; it simply makes everything else vanish." - Neal Stephenson From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Sun Feb 16 23:56:44 2003 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (J. M. Brenner) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] http://my.gnus.org/GDG/basic/show_form In-Reply-To: Message from Erik Bourget of "Sun, 16 Feb 2003 18:56:03 EST." <87isvjwzjg.fsf@mjollnir.odinnet> References: <87isvjwzjg.fsf@mjollnir.odinnet> Message-ID: <200302170756.h1H7uiC78430@mail0.rawbw.com> Erik Bourget wrote: > Don Saklad writes: > > > Of interest... > > > > http://my.gnus.org/GDG/ > > http://my.gnus.org/GDG/basic/show_form > > http://my.gnus.org/GDG/smtp/show_form > > http://my.gnus.org/ > Is this in response to my recent post (using gnus)? I > just switched and worry that I have made some cardinal > mistake of emacs mail. No, no, no. The true emacs adept walks without fear. Myself, I was wondering what was interesting about this link: http://my.gnus.org/ Since a search of "Don Saklad" doesn't turn up anything on that page. But then, considering that: If you can read this text, it means you are not experiencing the Plone design like it should look. It will work perfectly, and is accessible to any internet device, but the design needs a standards-compliant browser to look correct. Please update your browser it is entirely possible it's buried in the watermark. From dep at linuxandmain.com Mon Feb 17 04:58:45 2003 From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:07 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] hungry flying machine Message-ID: <200302170758.45985.dep@linuxandmain.com> according to today's new york times, the space shuttle columbia dipped back to earth for meals during its last flight: "For days after the Columbia was launched, small teams of engineers and technicians were consumed by the left wing." it could be noted that several days later the crew was, too. -- dep http://www.linuxandmain.com -- outside the box, barely within the envelope, and no animated paperclip anywhere. From ebourg at cs.mcgill.ca Mon Feb 17 05:28:36 2003 From: ebourg at cs.mcgill.ca (Erik Bourget) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:08 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] hungry flying machine In-Reply-To: <200302170758.45985.dep@linuxandmain.com> References: <200302170758.45985.dep@linuxandmain.com> Message-ID: <87d6lr6np7.fsf@mjollnir.odinnet> dep writes: > according to today's new york times, the space shuttle columbia dipped > back to earth for meals during its last flight: > > "For days after the Columbia was launched, small teams of engineers > and technicians were consumed by the left wing." > > it could be noted that several days later the crew was, too. Nyuck nyuck nyuck. You should obviously write for dailyrotten. - erik -- erik bourget | "emacs outshines all other editing software in ebourg@cs.mcgill.ca | approximately the same way that the noonday sun ---------------------/ does the stars. It is not just bigger and brighter; it simply makes everything else vanish." - Neal Stephenson From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu Mon Feb 17 06:20:29 2003 From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian Danger Hicks) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:08 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] hungry flying machine In-Reply-To: <87d6lr6np7.fsf@mjollnir.odinnet> References: <200302170758.45985.dep@linuxandmain.com> <87d6lr6np7.fsf@mjollnir.odinnet> Message-ID: <20030217142028.GA24154@8ball.wox.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 commence Erik Bourget quotation: > dep writes: > > "For days after the Columbia was launched, small teams of engineers > > and technicians were consumed by the left wing." > > > > it could be noted that several days later the crew was, too. > > Nyuck nyuck nyuck. You should obviously write for dailyrotten. Anything that gets him the fuck off my list is fine with me. - -- Brian Hicks -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+UO+rjLHcIq3dHxYRAl2pAJsHkeCWbVbWt+5+9/s2IxfIyrxuPACeLVI5 rcXAn6+wmOFaFnW1/pmiipk= =JOXW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nick at zork.net Mon Feb 17 10:31:37 2003 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:08 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification] Message-ID: <20030217183137.GF17327@zork.net> Bye. ----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net ----- jonhoskins23@hotmail.com has been removed from CrackMonkey. ----- End forwarded message ----- From nick at zork.net Mon Feb 17 10:38:17 2003 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:08 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification] Message-ID: <20030217183817.GG17327@zork.net> You are likely to just be another pest on this list. ----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net ----- necco@relst8.net has been successfully subscribed to CrackMonkey. ----- End forwarded message ----- From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Mon Feb 17 10:41:24 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:08 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] hungry flying machine In-Reply-To: <87d6lr6np7.fsf@mjollnir.odinnet> References: <200302170758.45985.dep@linuxandmain.com> <87d6lr6np7.fsf@mjollnir.odinnet> Message-ID: <20030217184124.GA8581@localhost> On Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 08:28:36AM -0500, Erik Bourget wrote: > You should obviously write for dailyrotten. dep is too modest for his own good sometimes: http://www.google.com/search?q=powell%20pulitzer%20challenger -- Bob Bernstein From crackdonkey at donkeyshow.org Mon Feb 17 11:33:18 2003 From: crackdonkey at donkeyshow.org (#2 of Berkeley) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:08 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] hungry flying machine In-Reply-To: <20030217184124.GA8581@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Bob Bernstein wrote: > http://www.google.com/search?q=powell%20pulitzer%20challenger http://www.google.com/search?q=Mr.+Bad+Pulitzer+pornstars From nick at zork.net Mon Feb 17 16:04:18 2003 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:08 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Ah, the LISP OS... Message-ID: <20030218000417.GJ17327@zork.net> http://www.gia.ist.utl.pt/~aml/Links/LispOS.txt > As a side-story, I remember we were using an very nice knowledge > representation tool (which I will not tell you the name for reasons > that will be apparent latter) and I found a bug in one function of > that tool. The bug occurred because the function was recursive > (tail-recursive, actually) and we were using some very unusually > deep class hierarchies and the stack blowed up. Note that there > were no hard-limits on the stack size (AFAIK), but the system warned > you when the stack reached some pre-defined limits. You could just > tell the system to increase the stack size and continue the > operation (really, it was just a sort of yes-or-no question, either > abort or continue with a larger stack) but this was not very > practical from the standpoint of the user of our software, so I > decided to correct the bug. Meta-Control-w (If I remember > correctly) and there I was looking at the marvelous window debugger, > seeing the stack, the local variables, the objects, everything that > I wanted. Note that the tool we were using _didn't_ come with > sources. Of course, nothing prevented us to look at the > disassembled code, so that's what I did. This disassembly was so > clear, so documented, that I could generate a copy of the original > function within minutes. Well, at least, it compiled to exactly the > same code. With that copy, it was now very simple to convert it to > an iterative loop, compile it again, restart it, and there it was, > the knowledge representation tool resumed its working without any > problems. It was like if the bug never happened. From nick at zork.net Mon Feb 17 16:20:22 2003 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:08 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] ha ha design patterns Message-ID: <20030218002022.GK17327@zork.net> http://www.norvig.com/design-patterns/ "Design Patterns" are all "invisible or simpler" in LISP. From apost at recalcitrant.org Mon Feb 17 17:15:25 2003 From: apost at recalcitrant.org (Alan Post) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:08 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] ha ha design patterns In-Reply-To: <20030218002022.GK17327@zork.net> References: <20030218002022.GK17327@zork.net> Message-ID: <20030218011524.GN29200@recalcitrant.org> "C++" is a "steaming pile of donkey turds." From ebourg at cs.mcgill.ca Mon Feb 17 17:28:27 2003 From: ebourg at cs.mcgill.ca (Erik Bourget) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:08 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] ha ha design patterns In-Reply-To: <20030218002022.GK17327@zork.net> References: <20030218002022.GK17327@zork.net> Message-ID: <878ywextqc.fsf@mjollnir.odinnet> Nick Moffitt writes: > http://www.norvig.com/design-patterns/ > > "Design Patterns" are all "invisible or simpler" in LISP. > Granted, Norvig is a hardcore AI type, they love LISP because it's tradition. *glances at the russel&norvig book on the shelf* - erik -- erik bourget | "emacs outshines all other editing software in ebourg@cs.mcgill.ca | approximately the same way that the noonday sun ---------------------/ does the stars. It is not just bigger and brighter; it simply makes everything else vanish." - Neal Stephenson From tomduffy at dslextreme.com Tue Feb 18 09:02:06 2003 From: tomduffy at dslextreme.com (Tom Duffy) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:08 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [schneier@counterpane.com: Tomorrow's Crypto-Gram] In-Reply-To: <20030216165129.GB6953@laviola.org> References: <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <1045346723.3e4eb9a33fc3b@webmail.spamcop.net> <20030215230716.GB1893@localhost.localdomain> <20030216011222.GB5360@localhost> <20030216011222.GB5360@localhost> <1045364236.3e4efe0cbd951@webmail.spamcop.net> <20030216165129.GB6953@laviola.org> Message-ID: <1045587725.16402.20.camel@biznatch> On Sun, 2003-02-16 at 08:51, Carlos Laviola wrote: > Man, what is it with IMP and threading? God damn it. Nick, I think it is time for: -User-Agent: .*(The Bat|Netscape|Mozilla 4|Pegasus|NTMail|Eudora|Microsoft|Forte.Agent|Win|Apple.Mail|IMail) +User-Agent: .*(The Bat|Netscape|Mozilla 4|Pegasus|NTMail|Eudora|Microsoft|Forte.Agent|Win|Apple.Mail|IMail|IMP) -- "[ SUV drivers are ] insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors and communities." -- Keith Bradsher reporting on SUV automakers' own market research From tomduffy at dslextreme.com Tue Feb 18 09:11:03 2003 From: tomduffy at dslextreme.com (Tom Duffy) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:08 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Brainwash loses the Seal of Doom In-Reply-To: <200302152006.h1FK6aC99072@mail0.rawbw.com> References: <20030215190108.GJ8910@zork.net> <200302152006.h1FK6aC99072@mail0.rawbw.com> Message-ID: <1045588262.2740.31.camel@biznatch> On Sat, 2003-02-15 at 12:06, J. M. Brenner wrote: > References: <20030215190108.GJ8910@zork.net> > Went by the Brainwash the yesterday and I was distressed to > see that they have something on the menu they call > "The New Burger of Doom". The original "Burger of Doom" > was probably the best in town, but the new version is > slicked up with crap like tequilla braised honey glazed > bacon -- bleh. Three things that don't belong on burgers. > Or with each other. Fucking California Cuisine. And this was somehow related to: On Sat, 2003-02-15 at 11:01, Nick Moffitt wrote: > Message-ID: <20030215190108.GJ8910@zork.net> > You won't like it, so just unsubscribe now. > > ----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net ----- > > apost@recalcitrant.org has been successfully subscribed to > CrackMonkey. > > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- Either this a real non-sequitur (albeit not an argument) or you should learn to use the Reply key for what it is intended... -- "[ SUV drivers are ] insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors and communities." -- Keith Bradsher reporting on SUV automakers' own market research From tomduffy at dslextreme.com Tue Feb 18 09:16:23 2003 From: tomduffy at dslextreme.com (Tom Duffy) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:08 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification] In-Reply-To: <20030217183817.GG17327@zork.net> References: <20030217183817.GG17327@zork.net> Message-ID: <1045588583.2729.34.camel@biznatch> On Mon, 2003-02-17 at 10:38, Nick Moffitt wrote: > necco@relst8.net has been successfully subscribed to CrackMonkey. Hey, I am interested in selling my home. What kind of interest rate can I get? -- "[ SUV drivers are ] insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors and communities." -- Keith Bradsher reporting on SUV automakers' own market research From andy at strugglers.net Tue Feb 18 09:57:56 2003 From: andy at strugglers.net (Andy Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:08 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [schneier@counterpane.com: Tomorrow's Crypto-Gram] In-Reply-To: <20030216171319.GA16894@bodin.org> References: <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <874r7574hf.fsf@enberg.org> <20030216171319.GA16894@bodin.org> Message-ID: <20030218175756.GT19676@lug.org.uk> On Sun, Feb 16, 2003 at 06:13:19PM +0100, Magnus Bodin wrote: > The interesting thing was > > 1. That a regular newsletter is catched in Spamassassin (not very > interesting, maybe) As has been mentioned on other lists (but not here), it wasn't spamassassin which caught the cryptogram, but Razor, which is optionally used by some SA users. That means that some cryptogram subscribers must have reported previous mailings to Razor as spam. This bit interests me, that it is so easy to get legitimate mail trashed for other people. > 3. Apparently he found it good to write a pre-message that was tested > negative (ham) in earths biggest spam-regex-collection and then > send that out. > > I guess that spammers will start using (3) if they haven't done it yet. It would only work for a while, until the new spamsigns are added into SA. That's probably the best we have right now, anyway. From dmarti at zgp.org Tue Feb 18 10:02:52 2003 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:08 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [schneier@counterpane.com: Tomorrow's Crypto-Gram] In-Reply-To: <20030218175756.GT19676@lug.org.uk> References: <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <874r7574hf.fsf@enberg.org> <20030216171319.GA16894@bodin.org> <20030218175756.GT19676@lug.org.uk> Message-ID: <20030218180252.GP26723@zgp.org> begin Andy Smith quotation of Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 05:57:56PM +0000: > It would only work for a while, until the new spamsigns are added > into SA. That's probably the best we have right now, anyway. Bayesian filtering will rock your lame ass! -- Don Marti Even if we don't get DMCA reform, loudly http://zgp.org/~dmarti demanding DMCA reform is going to get the dmarti@zgp.org injustice of the DMCA in front of the next KG6INA jury. Make noise. It counts. From neale at woozle.org Tue Feb 18 10:37:52 2003 From: neale at woozle.org (Neale Pickett) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:08 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [schneier@counterpane.com: Tomorrow's Crypto-Gram] In-Reply-To: <20030218175756.GT19676@lug.org.uk> (Andy Smith's message of "Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:57:56 +0000") References: <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <874r7574hf.fsf@enberg.org> <20030216171319.GA16894@bodin.org> <20030218175756.GT19676@lug.org.uk> Message-ID: Andy Smith writes: > That means that some cryptogram subscribers must have reported > previous mailings to Razor as spam. This bit interests me, that it is > so easy to get legitimate mail trashed for other people. The spam-fighting Cognoscenti generally agree that Vipul's Razor is crap, for this and other reasons. Don't use it. Neale From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Tue Feb 18 12:41:36 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:08 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [schneier@counterpane.com: Tomorrow's Crypto-Gram] In-Reply-To: <1045587725.16402.20.camel@biznatch> References: <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <1045346723.3e4eb9a33fc3b@webmail.spamcop.net> <20030215230716.GB1893@localhost.localdomain> <20030216011222.GB5360@localhost> <20030216011222.GB5360@localhost> <1045364236.3e4efe0cbd951@webmail.spamcop.net> <20030216165129.GB6953@laviola.org> <1045587725.16402.20.camel@biznatch> Message-ID: <20030218204135.GO17327@zork.net> begin Tom Duffy quotation: > Nick, I think it is time for: > +User-Agent: .*(The Bat|Netscape|Mozilla 4|Pegasus|NTMail|Eudora|Microsoft|Forte.Agent|Win|Apple.Mail|IMail|IMP) But IMP is free software. From asf at void.at Tue Feb 18 09:55:30 2003 From: asf at void.at (Andreas Fuchs) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:08 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] ha ha design patterns References: <20030218002022.GK17327@zork.net> <20030218011524.GN29200@recalcitrant.org> Message-ID: <87el651njh.fsf@eris.void.at> On 2003-02-17, Alan Post wrote: > "C++" is a "steaming pile of donkey turds." "Playing with the use-mention principle" isn't "everything in life." -- Andreas Fuchs, , asf@jabber.at, antifuchs Sorry, DRH. From tomduffy at dslextreme.com Tue Feb 18 13:18:35 2003 From: tomduffy at dslextreme.com (Tom Duffy) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:08 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [schneier@counterpane.com: Tomorrow's Crypto-Gram] In-Reply-To: <20030218204135.GO17327@zork.net> References: <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <1045346723.3e4eb9a33fc3b@webmail.spamcop.net> <20030215230716.GB1893@localhost.localdomain> <20030216011222.GB5360@localhost> <20030216011222.GB5360@localhost> <1045364236.3e4efe0cbd951@webmail.spamcop.net> <20030216165129.GB6953@laviola.org> <1045587725.16402.20.camel@biznatch> <20030218204135.GO17327@zork.net> Message-ID: <1045603115.2729.42.camel@biznatch> On Tue, 2003-02-18 at 12:41, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote: > begin Tom Duffy quotation: > > Nick, I think it is time for: > > +User-Agent: .*(The Bat|Netscape|Mozilla 4|Pegasus|NTMail|Eudora|Microsoft|Forte.Agent|Win|Apple.Mail|IMail|IMP) > > But IMP is free software. Just because is it free doesn't make it good. It is majorly b0rken when it comes to threading... This clearly fails the "dress code" test. -- "[ SUV drivers are ] insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors and communities." -- Keith Bradsher reporting on SUV automakers' own market research From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org Tue Feb 18 13:23:21 2003 From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:08 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [schneier@counterpane.com: Tomorrow's Crypto-Gram] In-Reply-To: <1045603115.2729.42.camel@biznatch> References: <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <1045346723.3e4eb9a33fc3b@webmail.spamcop.net> <20030215230716.GB1893@localhost.localdomain> <20030216011222.GB5360@localhost> <20030216011222.GB5360@localhost> <1045364236.3e4efe0cbd951@webmail.spamcop.net> <20030216165129.GB6953@laviola.org> <1045587725.16402.20.camel@biznatch> <20030218204135.GO17327@zork.net> <1045603115.2729.42.camel@biznatch> Message-ID: <20030218212321.GQ17327@zork.net> begin Tom Duffy quotation: > This clearly fails the "dress code" test. Yours, maybe. From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Tue Feb 18 13:24:23 2003 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (J. M. Brenner) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:08 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Brainwash loses the Seal of Doom In-Reply-To: Message from Tom Duffy of "Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:11:03 PST." <1045588262.2740.31.camel@biznatch> References: <20030215190108.GJ8910@zork.net> <1045340457.3e4ea1294620b@webmail.spamcop.net> <20030208044700.GW7713@zork.net> <20030208232342.C25364@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <200302101330.05079.dep@linuxandmain.com> <20030211005217.GC20623@localhost.localdomain> <20030214010712.GL9361@zork.net> <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <200302170758.45985.dep@linuxandmain.com> <20030217183817.GG17327@zork.net> <20030218002022.GK17327@zork.net> <3E4ACF40.20107@nuasis.com> <200302152006.h1FK6aC99072@mail0.rawbw.com> <1045588262.2740.31.camel@biznatch> Message-ID: <200302182124.h1ILONC59173@mail0.rawbw.com> Tom Duffy wrote: > J. M. Brenner wrote: > > References: <20030215190108.GJ8910@zork.net> > > Went by the Brainwash the yesterday and I was distressed to > > see that they have something on the menu they call > > "The New Burger of Doom". > And this was somehow related to: > > Nick Moffitt wrote: > > Message-ID: <20030215190108.GJ8910@zork.net> > > You won't like it, so just unsubscribe now. You mean... you don't *see* it? You don't *get* the connection? Computer geeks can be so shallow. > Either this a real non-sequitur (albeit not an argument) > or you should learn to use the Reply key for what it is > intended... The question of intent remains problematic in post-modern culture. From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Tue Feb 18 13:49:32 2003 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:08 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [schneier@counterpane.com: Tomorrow's Crypto-Gram] In-Reply-To: <1045587725.16402.20.camel@biznatch> References: <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <1045346723.3e4eb9a33fc3b@webmail.spamcop.net> <20030215230716.GB1893@localhost.localdomain> <20030216011222.GB5360@localhost> <20030216011222.GB5360@localhost> <1045364236.3e4efe0cbd951@webmail.spamcop.net> <20030216165129.GB6953@laviola.org> <1045587725.16402.20.camel@biznatch> <1045587725.16402.20.camel@biznatch> Message-ID: <1045604972.3e52aa6c868a3@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco : > But IMP is free software. Yes. It also quite convenient for me, given my present array of accounts and machines, to have a GPL webmail client available. I would also submit that IMP is a far more useful client than squirrelmail, also (iirc) free software. I would finally submit that Mr. Duffy's intolerance of a fault in IMP is far more noxious than that fault itself. And, like most True Believers, enthusiasts, and other intolerant types, he seems bent on forcing his intolerance on others. This apparently holds much greater appeal than simply /dev/nulling my IMP posts! -- Bob Bernstein I would have a man's wit rather like a at fountain, that feeds itself invisibly, Esmond, Rhode Island than a river, that is supplied by several USA streams from abroad. (Swift) From jv at zork.net Tue Feb 18 14:43:36 2003 From: jv at zork.net (Juggler Vain) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:08 2005 Subject: "Ahh, *Mozart; it so happens that I know him very well... (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification] Reply-To: In-Reply-To: <1045588583.2729.34.camel@biznatch> References: <20030217183817.GG17327@zork.net> <1045588583.2729.34.camel@biznatch> Message-ID: <20030218224336.GG20032@zork.net> "... it so happens that I spoke with him waiting for the Number Fourteen bus heading out to the beach." Tom Duffy tosses sand at a Giant Ego: > On Mon, 2003-02-17 at 10:38, Nick Moffitt wrote: > > necco@relst8.net has been successfully subscribed to CrackMonkey. > Hey, I am interested in selling my home. What kind of interest rate can > I get? "... an hushed pause at so faux a pas; but the hosts quickly made new conversation... later in the car... "!You know God-Damn'd well the Number Fourteen don't go to The Beach" -jv From squinky at dasbistro.com Tue Feb 18 15:03:36 2003 From: squinky at dasbistro.com (Not Erik) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:08 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Brainwash loses the Seal of Doom In-Reply-To: <200302182124.h1ILONC59173@mail0.rawbw.com> References: <20030217183817.GG17327@zork.net> <20030218002022.GK17327@zork.net> <3E4ACF40.20107@nuasis.com> <200302152006.h1FK6aC99072@mail0.rawbw.com> <1045588262.2740.31.camel@biznatch> <200302182124.h1ILONC59173@mail0.rawbw.com> Message-ID: <20030218230336.GC17541@dasbistro.com> On Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 01:24:23PM -0800, J. M. Brenner wrote: > > Either this a real non-sequitur (albeit not an argument) > > or you should learn to use the Reply key for what it is > > intended... > > The question of intent remains problematic in post-modern > culture. Great. First the threading is screwed, and now the postmodern cultural inclination toward intentional nonsequiturism, too. I swear to God the whole world is coming to pieces. -- not erik - squinky@dasbistro.com - http://www.dasbistro.com/~erik/ From tomduffy at dslextreme.com Tue Feb 18 15:14:43 2003 From: tomduffy at dslextreme.com (Tom Duffy) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:58:08 2005 Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [schneier@counterpane.com: Tomorrow's Crypto-Gram] In-Reply-To: <1045604972.3e52aa6c868a3@webmail.spamcop.net> References: <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <20030215171217.GA20138@callisto.jtan.com> <1045346723.3e4eb9a33fc3b@webmail.spamcop.net> <20030215230716.GB1893@localhost.localdomain> <20030216011222.GB5360@localhost> <20030216011222.GB5360@localhost> <1045364236.3e4efe0cbd951@webmail.spamcop.net> <20030216165129.GB6953@laviola.org> <1045587725.16402.20.camel@biznatch> <1045587725.16402.20.camel@biznatch> <1045604972.3e52aa6c868a3@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <1045610082.16402.63.camel@biznatch> On Tue, 2003-02-18 at 13:49, Bob Bernstein wrote: > I would finally submit that Mr. Duffy's intolerance of a fault in IMP is > far more noxious than that fault itself. And, like most True Believers, > enthusiasts, and other intolerant types, he seems bent on forcing his > intolerance on others. This apparently holds much greater appeal than > simply /dev/nulling my IMP posts! Actually, I am intolerant of *you* who does not update his CVS version to one post Dec 03, 2002. Elbereth, do I have to do everything around here? As you see, the following fix was checked into HEAD: [imp] $ cvs log compose.php revision 2.576 date: 2002/12/03 01:55:10; author: slusarz; state: Exp; lines: +99 -101 Put all header information in the $header array so it is easier to keep track of. Improve references/in-reply-to handling. [imp] $ cvs diff -u -r 2.575 -r 2.576 compose.php @@ -437,25 +443,18 @@ case REPLY_ALL: if (!empty($index)) { /* Set the message_id and references headers. */ - $msg_id = $imp_headers->getOb('message_id'); - if (!empty($msg_id)) { - if (!($_POST['in_reply_to'] = $imp_headers->getOb('in_reply_to'))) { - $_POST['in_reply_to'] = chop($msg_id); - } - $references = $imp_headers->getOb('references'); - if (!empty($references)) { - $_POST['references'] = chop($references) . ' ' . $_POST['in_reply_to']; + if(($msg_id = $imp_headers->getOb('message_id'))) { + $header['inreplyto'] = chop($msg_id); + if (($header['references'] = $imp_headers->getOb('references'))) { + $header['references'] .= ' ' . $header['inreplyto']; } else { - $_POST['references'] = $_POST['in_reply_to']; + $header['references'] = $header['inreplyto']; } - } else { - $_POST['in_reply_to'] = ''; - $_POST['references'] = ''; } HTH. HAND. On the other hand, don't. -- "[ SUV drivers are ] insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be