From pedro at tastytronic.net  Fri Aug  1 06:16:33 2003
From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: gnu/linux type of computer
In-Reply-To: <E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
References: <E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <20030801131633.GJ16321@tastytronic.net>

Quoting Don Saklad:
> For example, how do you select the motherboard for a gnu/linux type of computer
> for grandma or for another person not already well connected with the industry,
> the hacker community, or orientated previously toward the hobby?...

Don, the motherboard itself doesn't matter that much, unless it's
packed full of unsupported hardware. These days, unsupported hardware
is like the one rotten cherry in the nice bowl, but you still gotta be
careful.

SPecifically, you need to make sure that sound is supported (if
grandma cares), and either that the modem is not a Winmodem (or is a
supported Winmodem, bleech) and/or that your NIC is supported. This is
usually accomplished by putting the model number or main IC serial
number into a Google search, like so:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=cs4281-cm+linux

...and that should let you know what kernel module you need to load
for it.

If you're setting up an eGrandma machine, the real trick is
UI configuration so that it's a nice and smooth ride for grandma.

Peter

-- 
Peter A. Peterson II, technician and musician.
 ---=[ http://tastytronic.net/~pedro/ ]=--- 


From thaytan at mad.scientist.com  Fri Aug  1 06:40:29 2003
From: thaytan at mad.scientist.com (Jan Schmidt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: gnu/linux type of computer
In-Reply-To: <20030801131633.GJ16321@tastytronic.net>
References: <E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
	<20030801131633.GJ16321@tastytronic.net>
Message-ID: <20030801134029.GA20109@oven.home.net>

<quote who="Peter A. Peterson II">

> If you're setting up an eGrandma machine, the real trick is
> UI configuration so that it's a nice and smooth ride for grandma.

Fucked up.

-- 
Jan Schmidt                                  thaytan@mad.scientist.com

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as
kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills
and listening to repetitive electronic music." - Unknown


From pedro at tastytronic.net  Fri Aug  1 06:52:22 2003
From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: gnu/linux type of computer
In-Reply-To: <20030801134029.GA20109@oven.home.net>
References: <E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
	<20030801131633.GJ16321@tastytronic.net>
	<20030801134029.GA20109@oven.home.net>
Message-ID: <20030801135222.GL16321@tastytronic.net>

Quoting Jan Schmidt:
> > If you're setting up an eGrandma machine, the real trick is
> > UI configuration so that it's a nice and smooth ride for grandma.
> 
> Fucked up.

I was thinking more along the lines of Harley-Davidsons,
thankyouverymuch.

uncle pedro


From nick at zork.net  Fri Aug  1 08:03:44 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
Message-ID: <20030801150344.GA8002@zork.net>

Now Uncle Pedro scared him off with his crazy grandma talk!

----- Forwarded message from mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org -----

rob.thatcher@makoglobal.com has been removed from CrackMonkey.


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 

end
 
 Support your droogs!


From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Fri Aug  1 08:26:47 2003
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joseph Brenner)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: gnu/linux type of computer 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Peter A. Peterson II" <pedro@tastytronic.net> 
	of "Fri,
	01 Aug 2003 08:52:22 CDT." <20030801135222.GL16321@tastytronic.net> 
References: <E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
	<20030801131633.GJ16321@tastytronic.net>
	<20030801134029.GA20109@oven.home.net>
	<20030801135222.GL16321@tastytronic.net> 
Message-ID: <200308011526.h71FQlr14051@mail0.rawbw.com>

Peter A. Peterson II <pedro@tastytronic.net> wrote:

> Quoting Jan Schmidt:
> > > If you're setting up an eGrandma machine, the real trick is
> > > UI configuration so that it's a nice and smooth ride for grandma.
> > 
> > Fucked up.
> 
> I was thinking more along the lines of Harley-Davidsons,
> thankyouverymuch.

Never actually ridden a Harley, eh? 



From pedro at tastytronic.net  Fri Aug  1 08:29:35 2003
From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20030801150344.GA8002@zork.net>
References: <20030801150344.GA8002@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20030801152935.GN16321@tastytronic.net>

Quoting Nick Moffitt:
> Now Uncle Pedro scared him off with his crazy grandma talk!

Oogety Boogety.


From andy at strugglers.net  Fri Aug  1 08:30:42 2003
From: andy at strugglers.net (Andy Smith)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: gnu/linux type of computer
In-Reply-To: <200308011526.h71FQlr14051@mail0.rawbw.com>
References: <E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
	<20030801131633.GJ16321@tastytronic.net>
	<20030801134029.GA20109@oven.home.net>
	<20030801135222.GL16321@tastytronic.net>
	<200308011526.h71FQlr14051@mail0.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <20030801153042.GV20242@lug.org.uk>

On Fri, Aug 01, 2003 at 08:26:47AM -0700, Joseph Brenner wrote:
> Peter A. Peterson II <pedro@tastytronic.net> wrote:
> 
> > Quoting Jan Schmidt:
> > > > If you're setting up an eGrandma machine, the real trick is
> > > > UI configuration so that it's a nice and smooth ride for grandma.
> > > 
> > > Fucked up.
> > 
> > I was thinking more along the lines of Harley-Davidsons,
> > thankyouverymuch.
> 
> Never actually ridden a Harley, eh? 

Have you ever ridden an eGrandma?


From pedro at tastytronic.net  Fri Aug  1 08:33:28 2003
From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: gnu/linux type of computer
In-Reply-To: <200308011526.h71FQlr14051@mail0.rawbw.com>
References: <E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
	<20030801131633.GJ16321@tastytronic.net>
	<20030801134029.GA20109@oven.home.net>
	<20030801135222.GL16321@tastytronic.net>
	<200308011526.h71FQlr14051@mail0.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <20030801153328.GO16321@tastytronic.net>

Quoting Joseph Brenner:
> Never actually ridden a Harley, eh? 

I have.

NOTICE: FOR ALL OF THOSE CONFUSED BY MY USE OF A HARLEY-DAVIDSON AS AN
EXAMPLE OF A SMOOTH RIDE, REPLACE HARLEY-DAVIDSON WITH MAGLEV
MONORAIL. THANK YOU.

-- 
Peter A. Peterson II, technician and musician.
 ---=[ http://tastytronic.net/~pedro/ ]=--- 


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Fri Aug  1 08:35:10 2003
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: gnu/linux type of computer
In-Reply-To: <20030801153328.GO16321@tastytronic.net>
References: <E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
	<20030801131633.GJ16321@tastytronic.net>
	<20030801134029.GA20109@oven.home.net>
	<20030801135222.GL16321@tastytronic.net>
	<200308011526.h71FQlr14051@mail0.rawbw.com>
	<20030801153328.GO16321@tastytronic.net>
Message-ID: <20030801153510.GA21109@zork.net>

begin  Uncle Pedro  quotation:
> NOTICE: FOR ALL OF THOSE CONFUSED BY MY USE OF A HARLEY-DAVIDSON AS
> AN EXAMPLE OF A SMOOTH RIDE, REPLACE HARLEY-DAVIDSON WITH MAGLEV
> MONORAIL. THANK YOU.

	MAGLEV, not war!

-- 

end
 
 Support your droogs!


From monkey at someplace.us  Fri Aug  1 09:43:59 2003
From: monkey at someplace.us (Monkey from the other side of the jungle)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: gnu/linux type of computer
In-Reply-To: <20030801153328.GO16321@tastytronic.net>
References: <E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
	<20030801131633.GJ16321@tastytronic.net>
	<20030801134029.GA20109@oven.home.net>
	<20030801135222.GL16321@tastytronic.net>
	<200308011526.h71FQlr14051@mail0.rawbw.com>
	<20030801153328.GO16321@tastytronic.net>
Message-ID: <1059756211.27219.72319.camel@dante>

On Fri, 2003-08-01 at 11:33, Peter A. Peterson II wrote:
>
> NOTICE: FOR ALL OF THOSE CONFUSED BY MY USE OF A HARLEY-DAVIDSON AS AN
> EXAMPLE OF A SMOOTH RIDE, REPLACE HARLEY-DAVIDSON WITH MAGLEV
> MONORAIL. THANK YOU.

Not unless Shelbyville is thinking about getting one.




From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu  Fri Aug  1 10:44:03 2003
From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joseph Brenner)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: gnu/linux type of computer 
In-Reply-To: Message from Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> 
	of "Fri, 01 Aug 2003 16:30:42 BST." <20030801153042.GV20242@lug.org.uk> 
References: <E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
	<20030801131633.GJ16321@tastytronic.net>
	<20030801134029.GA20109@oven.home.net>
	<20030801135222.GL16321@tastytronic.net>
	<200308011526.h71FQlr14051@mail0.rawbw.com>
	<20030801153042.GV20242@lug.org.uk> 
Message-ID: <200308011744.h71Hi3r68029@mail0.rawbw.com>

Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> wrote:

> Joseph Brenner wrote:
> > Peter A. Peterson II <pedro@tastytronic.net> wrote:
> > 
> > > Quoting Jan Schmidt:
> > > > > If you're setting up an eGrandma machine, the real trick is
> > > > > UI configuration so that it's a nice and smooth ride for grandma.
> > > > 
> > > > Fucked up.
> > > 
> > > I was thinking more along the lines of Harley-Davidsons,
> > > thankyouverymuch.
> > 
> > Never actually ridden a Harley, eh? 
> 
> Have you ever ridden an eGrandma?

What site is that? 



From pedro at tastytronic.net  Fri Aug  1 11:00:34 2003
From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: gnu/linux type of computer
In-Reply-To: <200308011744.h71Hi3r68029@mail0.rawbw.com>
References: <E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
	<20030801131633.GJ16321@tastytronic.net>
	<20030801134029.GA20109@oven.home.net>
	<20030801135222.GL16321@tastytronic.net>
	<200308011526.h71FQlr14051@mail0.rawbw.com>
	<20030801153042.GV20242@lug.org.uk>
	<200308011744.h71Hi3r68029@mail0.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <20030801180034.GQ16321@tastytronic.net>

Quoting Joseph Brenner:
> What site is that? 

It's Dean Kamen's new invention. Steve Jobs said it will revolutionize
the way we build cities.

-- 
Peter A. Peterson II, technician and musician.
 ---=[ http://tastytronic.net/~pedro/ ]=--- 


From helpdesk at fuck-everything.org  Fri Aug  1 11:17:47 2003
From: helpdesk at fuck-everything.org (Thank You, Come Again!)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: gnu/linux type of computer
In-Reply-To: <20030801180034.GQ16321@tastytronic.net>
References: <E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
	<20030801131633.GJ16321@tastytronic.net>
	<20030801134029.GA20109@oven.home.net>
	<20030801135222.GL16321@tastytronic.net>
	<200308011526.h71FQlr14051@mail0.rawbw.com>
	<20030801153042.GV20242@lug.org.uk>
	<200308011744.h71Hi3r68029@mail0.rawbw.com>
	<20030801180034.GQ16321@tastytronic.net>
Message-ID: <1059761867.27220.74970.camel@dante>

On Fri, 2003-08-01 at 14:00, Peter A. Peterson II wrote:
> Quoting Joseph Brenner:
> > What site is that? 
> 
> It's Dean Kamen's new invention. Steve Jobs said it will revolutionize
> the way we build cities.

begin  predictive_mode
        85% of them will be built using the largely broken knock-off
        championed by Bill Gates, known as Granny.NET .
end



From vipvop-cm at musesick.org  Fri Aug  1 15:57:02 2003
From: vipvop-cm at musesick.org (MC MeatFlaps)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] programmer or serial killer?
Message-ID: <20030801225702.GA1005@gregh.ilan.cogent.net>

http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/killerquiz/
Sorry, its flash.


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Fri Aug  1 16:00:07 2003
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] programmer or serial killer?
In-Reply-To: <20030801225702.GA1005@gregh.ilan.cogent.net>
References: <20030801225702.GA1005@gregh.ilan.cogent.net>
Message-ID: <20030801230007.GC6437@zork.net>

begin  MC MeatFlaps  quotation:
> http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/killerquiz/
> Sorry, its flash.

	Eat a bucket of fuck, macromedia boy.

-- 

end
 
 Support your droogs!


From carlos at laviola.org  Fri Aug  1 22:55:37 2003
From: carlos at laviola.org (Carlos Laviola)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Where does one sign-up for residence?
In-Reply-To: <20030716210730.GB8656@systemhalted>
References: <20030716210730.GB8656@systemhalted>
Message-ID: <20030802055537.GA4854@laviola.org>

On Wed, Jul 16, 2003 at 05:07:31PM -0400, Niamh wrote:
> It leaves me to wonder, being in the country illegally, 
> do you still get the dole?

Shut up, Carlos.

-- 
Carlos Laviola <carlos@laviola.org>


From nick at zork.net  Sat Aug  2 12:48:30 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
Message-ID: <20030802194830.GA20119@zork.net>

SE GNORIZO APO TIN KOPSI SOMETHING SOMETHING... ELEVTHERIA!!!!

[150 verses follow]

----- Forwarded message from mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org -----

nvon1@otenet.gr has been removed from CrackMonkey.


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 

end
 
 Support your droogs!


From radix42 at cox.net  Sat Aug  2 14:31:35 2003
From: radix42 at cox.net (David Mercer)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: gnu/linux type of computer
In-Reply-To: <20030801131633.GJ16321@tastytronic.net>
References: <E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
	<E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030802142641.00bbfb20@pop.west.cox.net>

At 06:16 AM 8/1/2003, Peter A. Peterson II wrote:
>Quoting Don Saklad:
> > For example, how do you select the motherboard for a gnu/linux type of 
> computer
> > for grandma or for another person not already well connected with the 
> industry,
> > the hacker community, or orientated previously toward the hobby?...
>
>Don, the motherboard itself doesn't matter that much, unless it's
>packed full of unsupported hardware. These days, unsupported hardware
>is like the one rotten cherry in the nice bowl, but you still gotta be
>careful.

You can punt and get an Intel mobo, all their shit works with Debian these 
days, and
it's a brand Grandma already knows.

>If you're setting up an eGrandma machine, the real trick is
>UI configuration so that it's a nice and smooth ride for grandma.

Yup, knowing your luser is numero uno in custom desktops.  Had one of my client
linux machines at home setup once so that after you logged in, typing 
'internet' fired
up PPP, pulled mail, started X, and fired up the users preferred browser, 
mail and chat
clients.  Think of it as eGirlfriend.

eGrandma may or may not have fewer bells and whistles than a given release 
of eGirlfriend.

-David Mercer
Tucson, AZ




From necco at relst8.net  Sat Aug  2 19:29:08 2003
From: necco at relst8.net (Loki Ambrodious von Esling)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: gnu/linux type of computer
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030802142641.00bbfb20@pop.west.cox.net>
References: <E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
	<E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
	<5.2.0.9.0.20030802142641.00bbfb20@pop.west.cox.net>
Message-ID: <20030803022908.GA26211@relst8.net>

On Sat, Aug 02, 2003 at 02:31:35PM -0700, David Mercer wrote:
> 
> 
> eGrandma may or may not have fewer bells and whistles than a given release 
> of eGirlfriend.

make sure you get her a shell somewhere to packet from!

-- 
 . \ ` ' / .
._` __^__ '_.  Loki Ambridous von Esling
   [()=()]     RELST8 - http://www.relst8.net
   /_____\  
  Justified


From nick at zork.net  Sat Aug  2 22:51:42 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
Message-ID: <20030803055141.GD30374@zork.net>

Okay whatever bye.

----- Forwarded message from mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org -----

ashankar@nls.ac.in has been removed from CrackMonkey.


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 

end
 
 Support your droogs!


From ruben at mrbrklyn.com  Sat Aug  2 22:54:12 2003
From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: gnu/linux type of computer
In-Reply-To: <E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
References: <E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <20030803055412.GA25121@www2.mrbrklyn.com>

That GNU/Linux kindo of guy wasn't me...

I would just point my Grandmother, as I did, to Wallmart....

Duh...


On Fri, Aug 01, 2003 at 02:35:28AM -0400, Don Saklad wrote:
> For example, how do you select the motherboard for a gnu/linux type of computer
> for grandma or for another person not already well connected with the industry,
> the hacker community, or orientated previously toward the hobby?...
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks
> http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey

-- 
__________________________
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com

http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....

1-718-382-0585


From ruben at mrbrklyn.com  Sat Aug  2 22:57:06 2003
From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: gnu/linux type of computer
In-Reply-To: <E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
References: <E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <20030803055706.GB25121@www2.mrbrklyn.com>

I do have to say Dave

You are one of the most ignorant folkies I've ever had the 
pleasure not to meet.

CEO

On Fri, Aug 01, 2003 at 02:35:28AM -0400, Don Saklad wrote:
> For example, how do you select the motherboard for a gnu/linux type of computer
> for grandma or for another person not already well connected with the industry,
> the hacker community, or orientated previously toward the hobby?...
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks
> http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey

-- 
__________________________
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com

http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....

1-718-382-0585


From ruben at mrbrklyn.com  Sat Aug  2 23:00:02 2003
From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] By Jay Sulzberger. Anticircumvention.
In-Reply-To: <1059340586.1488.2.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <E19gixO-0006Jw-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
	<1059340586.1488.2.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20030803060002.GC25121@www2.mrbrklyn.com>

It's the New Yorkers for Fair Use, Inc way...

Can anyone play Wack the Mole?

It's much more fun as a socialist!

Ruben


On Sun, Jul 27, 2003 at 04:16:42PM -0500, Joakim Ziegler wrote:
> On Sun, 2003-07-27 at 05:40, Don Saklad wrote:
> > By Jay Sulzberger. Anticircumvention.
> 
> Congratulations. You sounded like a complete nut, much like you've been
> sounding here on the list too.
> 
> Saying "englobulators" in front of a hearing panel, and talking about
> your personal sympathies for socialists. What a great idea.
> 
> -- 
>    The Private Joakim Ziegler - Not Speaking For Anyone But Myself
>     joakim@avmaria.com - http://www.avmaria.com - rdgzt@Undernet
>             http://www.avmaria.com/ - http://www.fix.no/
> 		
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks
> http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey

-- 
__________________________
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com

http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....

1-718-382-0585


From sam at dasbistro.com  Sun Aug  3 01:23:08 2003
From: sam at dasbistro.com (Sam Phillips)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Whazzat?
Message-ID: <E19jE8y-00078x-00@threepwood.dasbistro.com>


Have I been transported to the list for Dumbasses of the Future?

-- 
Sam Phillips <sam@dasbistro.com>                http://www.dasbistro.com
Reno                                                              Nevada


From pawal at blipp.com  Sun Aug  3 03:33:08 2003
From: pawal at blipp.com (Patrik Wallstrom)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Whazzat?
In-Reply-To: <E19jE8y-00078x-00@threepwood.dasbistro.com>
References: <E19jE8y-00078x-00@threepwood.dasbistro.com>
Message-ID: <20030803103308.GG31521@blipp.com>

On Sun, 03 Aug 2003, Sam Phillips wrote:

> Have I been transported to the list for Dumbasses of the Future?

Yes, but why do you post this here now?

-- 
patrik_wallstrom->foodfight->pawal@blipp.com->+46-733173956
                `-> http://www.gnuheter.com/


From dsaklad at zurich.ai.mit.edu  Sun Aug  3 07:42:08 2003
From: dsaklad at zurich.ai.mit.edu (Don Saklad)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] The Jay method. Anticircumvention.
Message-ID: <E19jK3k-00086d-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>

Jay names, describes things as what they are to the mark with precision that
many others do not. The Jay method is argumentation to the heart of a matter
without distracting logical fallacies, without metaargument. Jay uses
insightful humor in matters of complexity that have defied a complete
explanation previously.



I remain, as always, one of the many people greateful for Jay's discourse !




oo__  dWs


From jdub at perkypants.org  Sun Aug  3 15:10:13 2003
From: jdub at perkypants.org (Jeff Waugh)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Proprietary Nutballs
Message-ID: <20030803221013.GP1362@lazarus>

One to add to your headers:

  http://www.stalker.com/CommuniGatePro/Misc.html#AddressTest

NUTBALLS!

- Jeff

-- 
linux.conf.au 2004: Adelaide, Australia         http://lca2004.linux.org.au/
 
   "Instead you're doing circle jerks with the Care Bears of Censorship."
                            - Siduri on Slashdot


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Sun Aug  3 22:18:27 2003
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: gnu/linux type of computer
In-Reply-To: <20030803055706.GB25121@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
References: <E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
	<20030803055706.GB25121@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
Message-ID: <20030804051827.GO30374@zork.net>

begin  Rubn I Safir  quotation:
> I do have to say Dave
> 
> You are one of the most ignorant folkies I've ever had the 
> pleasure not to meet.
> 
> CEO
> 
> On Fri, Aug 01, 2003 at 02:35:28AM -0400, Don Saklad wrote:
> > For example, how do you select the motherboard for a gnu/linux
> > type of computer for grandma or for another person not already
> > well connected with the industry, the hacker community, or
> > orientated previously toward the hobby?...

	And you're a top-posting fuckwit who responded to Don instead
of Dave.  Stay the hell off the Internet if you know what's good for
you.

-- 

end
 
 Support your droogs!


From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Sun Aug  3 23:50:46 2003
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Proprietary Nutballs
In-Reply-To: <20030803221013.GP1362@lazarus>
References: <20030803221013.GP1362@lazarus>
Message-ID: <20030804065046.GA16792@callisto.jtan.com>

On Mon, Aug 04, 2003 at 08:10:13AM +1000, Jeff Waugh wrote:

>   http://www.stalker.com/CommuniGatePro/Misc.html#AddressTest


What induced you to read these docs?


-- 
Bob Bernstein   


From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Sun Aug  3 23:52:20 2003
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: gnu/linux type of computer
In-Reply-To: <20030804051827.GO30374@zork.net>
References: <E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
	<20030803055706.GB25121@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030804051827.GO30374@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20030804065220.GB16792@callisto.jtan.com>

On Sun, Aug 03, 2003 at 10:18:27PM -0700, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote:

> begin  Rubn I Safir  quotation:
> > I do have to say Dave

There's September on Usenet, and then there's Rubn on crackmonkey.

-- 
Bob Bernstein   


From jdub at perkypants.org  Mon Aug  4 00:24:01 2003
From: jdub at perkypants.org (Jeff Waugh)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Proprietary Nutballs
In-Reply-To: <20030804065046.GA16792@callisto.jtan.com>
References: <20030803221013.GP1362@lazarus>
	<20030804065046.GA16792@callisto.jtan.com>
Message-ID: <20030804072401.GB1362@lazarus>

<quote who="Bob Bernstein">

> On Mon, Aug 04, 2003 at 08:10:13AM +1000, Jeff Waugh wrote:
> 
> >   http://www.stalker.com/CommuniGatePro/Misc.html#AddressTest
> 
> What induced you to read these docs?

Money.

- Jeff

-- 
Get Informed: SCO vs. IBM                            http://sco.iwethey.org/
 
   "2.4.1ac17 is full of innovations and should be used with caution." -
                             Linux Weekly News


From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Mon Aug  4 00:57:25 2003
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Proprietary Nutballs
In-Reply-To: <20030804072401.GB1362@lazarus>
References: <20030803221013.GP1362@lazarus>
	<20030804065046.GA16792@callisto.jtan.com>
	<20030804072401.GB1362@lazarus>
Message-ID: <20030804075725.GC16792@callisto.jtan.com>

On Mon, Aug 04, 2003 at 05:24:01PM +1000, Jeff Waugh wrote:

> Money.

Gotcha.

-- 
Bob Bernstein   


From thaytan at mad.scientist.com  Mon Aug  4 00:59:14 2003
From: thaytan at mad.scientist.com (Jan Schmidt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:40 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Proprietary Nutballs
In-Reply-To: <20030804065046.GA16792@callisto.jtan.com>
References: <20030803221013.GP1362@lazarus>
	<20030804065046.GA16792@callisto.jtan.com>
Message-ID: <20030804075913.GB20109@oven.home.net>

<quote who="Bob Bernstein">
> On Mon, Aug 04, 2003 at 08:10:13AM +1000, Jeff Waugh wrote:
> 
> >   http://www.stalker.com/CommuniGatePro/Misc.html#AddressTest
> 
> What induced you to read these docs?
> 

Google says it was his inability to auto-fallate.

J.
-- 
Jan Schmidt                                  thaytan@mad.scientist.com

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as
kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills
and listening to repetitive electronic music." - Unknown


From jdub at perkypants.org  Mon Aug  4 03:54:03 2003
From: jdub at perkypants.org (Jeff Waugh)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Proprietary Nutballs
In-Reply-To: <20030804075913.GB20109@oven.home.net>
References: <20030803221013.GP1362@lazarus>
	<20030804065046.GA16792@callisto.jtan.com>
	<20030804075913.GB20109@oven.home.net>
Message-ID: <20030804105403.GE1362@lazarus>

<quote who="Jan Schmidt">

> <quote who="Bob Bernstein">
> > On Mon, Aug 04, 2003 at 08:10:13AM +1000, Jeff Waugh wrote:
> > 
> > >   http://www.stalker.com/CommuniGatePro/Misc.html#AddressTest
> > 
> > What induced you to read these docs?
> 
> Google says it was his inability to auto-fallate.

Fellate?

- Jeff

-- 
Get Informed: SCO vs. IBM                            http://sco.iwethey.org/
 
           "It's weird being without white noise." - Catie Flick


From thaytan at mad.scientist.com  Mon Aug  4 04:50:29 2003
From: thaytan at mad.scientist.com (Jan Schmidt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Proprietary Nutballs
In-Reply-To: <20030804105403.GE1362@lazarus>
References: <20030804075913.GB20109@oven.home.net>
	<20030804105403.GE1362@lazarus>
Message-ID: <20030804115029.GC20109@oven.home.net>

<quote who="Jeff Waugh">
> <quote who="Jan Schmidt">
> > Google says it was his inability to auto-fallate.
> 
> Fellate?
> 

You can?

J.
-- 
Jan Schmidt                                  thaytan@mad.scientist.com

"Don't Panic" -- The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy


From mooshc804 at rmt.flow.com.au  Mon Aug  4 05:32:37 2003
From: mooshc804 at rmt.flow.com.au (Robert Thomson)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Proprietary Nutballs
In-Reply-To: <20030804072401.GB1362@lazarus>
References: <20030803221013.GP1362@lazarus>
	<20030804065046.GA16792@callisto.jtan.com>
	<20030804072401.GB1362@lazarus>
Message-ID: <20030804123237.GA30291@rmt.flow.com.au>

Jeff,

I think you misunderstand the terms of your employment.  You are paid,
therefore you genuinely like Communigate, and furthermore respect all
decisions made before your time with blind enthusiasm.  You are an
employee now, and you have to give up a certain amount of your innate
morals, learned common-senses, and personal preferences in a bid to
conform!  Didn't you read the fine print on your AWA? ;-)  If you read
more carefully, you will also note the section referencing your first
born.  You are also unable to claim maternity leave.  Hey, don't look
at me!  You signed it!

    Rob.

On Mon, Aug 04, 2003 at 05:24:01PM +1000, Jeff Waugh banged out:
> <quote who="Bob Bernstein">
> 
> > On Mon, Aug 04, 2003 at 08:10:13AM +1000, Jeff Waugh wrote:
> > 
> > >   http://www.stalker.com/CommuniGatePro/Misc.html#AddressTest
> > 
> > What induced you to read these docs?
> 
> Money.
>
>  - Jeff

-- 
When one realizes that life is worthless, one either commits suicide or
travels.
	Edward Dahlberg


From necco at relst8.net  Mon Aug  4 06:35:24 2003
From: necco at relst8.net (Loki Ambrodious von Esling)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Proprietary Nutballs
In-Reply-To: <20030804105403.GE1362@lazarus>
References: <20030803221013.GP1362@lazarus>
	<20030804065046.GA16792@callisto.jtan.com>
	<20030804075913.GB20109@oven.home.net>
	<20030804105403.GE1362@lazarus>
Message-ID: <20030804133523.GA31556@relst8.net>

On Mon, Aug 04, 2003 at 08:54:03PM +1000, Jeff Waugh wrote:
> <quote who="Jan Schmidt">
> 
> > <quote who="Bob Bernstein">
> > > On Mon, Aug 04, 2003 at 08:10:13AM +1000, Jeff Waugh wrote:
> > > 
> > > >   http://www.stalker.com/CommuniGatePro/Misc.html#AddressTest
> > > 
> > > What induced you to read these docs?
> > 
> > Google says it was his inability to auto-fallate.
> 
> Fellate?
> 

filet?[1]




[1] o'fish?
-- 
 . \ ` ' / .
._` __^__ '_.  Loki Ambridous von Esling
   [()=()]     RELST8 - http://www.relst8.net
   /_____\  
  Justified


From sam at dasbistro.com  Mon Aug  4 07:28:58 2003
From: sam at dasbistro.com (Sam Phillips)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Whazzat? 
In-Reply-To: <20030803103308.GG31521@blipp.com> 
References: <E19jE8y-00078x-00@threepwood.dasbistro.com>
	<20030803103308.GG31521@blipp.com> 
Message-ID: <E19jgKY-00048r-00@threepwood.dasbistro.com>


On Sun, Aug 03, 2003, at 12:33 +0200, Patrik Wallstrom wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Aug 2003, Sam Phillips wrote:
> 
> > Have I been transported to the list for Dumbasses of the Future?
> 
> Yes, but why do you post this here now?

To see if I would get a dumbass remark of course.  There's no time like
the future I say.

-- 
Sam Phillips <sam@dasbistro.com>                http://www.dasbistro.com
Reno                                                              Nevada


From sam at dasbistro.com  Mon Aug  4 07:32:52 2003
From: sam at dasbistro.com (Sam Phillips)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Proprietary Nutballs 
In-Reply-To: <20030804105403.GE1362@lazarus> 
References: <20030803221013.GP1362@lazarus>
	<20030804065046.GA16792@callisto.jtan.com>
	<20030804075913.GB20109@oven.home.net>
	<20030804105403.GE1362@lazarus> 
Message-ID: <E19jgOK-0004sK-00@threepwood.dasbistro.com>


On Mon, Aug 04, 2003, at 20:54 +1000, Jeff Waugh wrote:
> <quote who="Jan Schmidt">
> > Google says it was his inability to auto-fallate.
> 
> Fellate?

No thanks, I just ate.

-- 
Sam Phillips <sam@dasbistro.com>                http://www.dasbistro.com
Reno                                                              Nevada


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Mon Aug  4 07:46:55 2003
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Proprietary Nutballs
In-Reply-To: <E19jgOK-0004sK-00@threepwood.dasbistro.com>
References: <20030803221013.GP1362@lazarus>
	<20030804065046.GA16792@callisto.jtan.com>
	<20030804075913.GB20109@oven.home.net>
	<20030804105403.GE1362@lazarus>
	<E19jgOK-0004sK-00@threepwood.dasbistro.com>
Message-ID: <20030804144655.GP30374@zork.net>

begin  Sam Phillips  quotation:
> On Mon, Aug 04, 2003, at 20:54 +1000, Jeff Waugh wrote:
> > Fellate?
> 
> No thanks, I just ate.

	Neat trick for a dead guy.

-- 

end
 
 Support your droogs!


From nick at zork.net  Mon Aug  4 19:10:21 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	subscription notification]
Message-ID: <20030805021020.GC4569@zork.net>

LOLZ IM HURD AN I TUCH UR GNUBS

----- Forwarded message from mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org -----

Arr Emm Tee <rmt@corporatism.org> has been successfully subscribed to
CrackMonkey.



----- End forwarded message -----

-- 

end
 
 Support your droogs!


From rmt-dated-1060482252.0e7d42 at corporatism.org  Mon Aug  4 19:24:12 2003
From: rmt-dated-1060482252.0e7d42 at corporatism.org (Robert Thomson)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	subscription notification]
In-Reply-To: <20030805021020.GC4569@zork.net>
References: <20030805021020.GC4569@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20030805122411.A6636@quixote.quixote>

V| R3G4S, 4M|K0!

On Mon, Aug 04, 2003 at 07:10:21PM -0700, Nick Moffitt uttered:
> LOLZ IM HURD AN I TUCH UR GNUBS
> 
> ----- Forwarded message from mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org -----
> 
> Arr Emm Tee <rmt@corporatism.org> has been successfully subscribed to
> CrackMonkey.
> 
> ----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Venkas ne forto, venkas la sorto.
		-- L.L. Zamenhof, "Proverbaro Esperanta" (1905)


From sam at dasbistro.com  Tue Aug  5 10:27:15 2003
From: sam at dasbistro.com (Sam Phillips)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Proprietary Nutballs 
In-Reply-To: <20030804144655.GP30374@zork.net> 
References: <20030803221013.GP1362@lazarus>
	<20030804065046.GA16792@callisto.jtan.com>
	<20030804075913.GB20109@oven.home.net>
	<20030804105403.GE1362@lazarus>
	<E19jgOK-0004sK-00@threepwood.dasbistro.com>
	<20030804144655.GP30374@zork.net> 
Message-ID: <E19k5ad-00055A-00@threepwood.dasbistro.com>


On Mon, Aug 04, 2003, at 07:46 PDT, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote:
> begin  Sam Phillips  quotation:
> > On Mon, Aug 04, 2003, at 20:54 +1000, Jeff Waugh wrote:
> > > Fellate?
> > 
> > No thanks, I just ate.
> 
> 	Neat trick for a dead guy.

Dude you totally underestimate the Dead.  We're making a come back man.

-- 
Sam Phillips <sam@dasbistro.com>                http://www.dasbistro.com
Reno                                                              Nevada


From nick at zork.net  Tue Aug  5 20:56:36 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] 
	[joey@infodrom.org: Debian Weekly News - August 5th, 2003]
Message-ID: <20030806035636.GC15911@zork.net>

Beaujolais to Uncle Bad!

----- Forwarded message from Martin Schulze <joey@infodrom.org> -----
[...]

DeCSS for Debian? There has been an [48]Intent to Package for DeCSS, a
utility for stripping CSS tags from an HTML page. Sam Hocevar
[49]objected to this cluttering of the package namespace with a
useless program. Brian Nelson [50]quoted the project's [51]website
which admits that it is pretty much useless.

 48. http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-0307/msg02296.html
 49. http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-0307/msg02301.html
 50. http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-0307/msg02304.html
 51. http://www.pigdog.org/decss/

[...]

-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-news-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 

end
 
 Support your droogs!


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Tue Aug  5 21:02:15 2003
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [joey@infodrom.org: Debian Weekly News - August
	5th, 2003]
In-Reply-To: <20030806035636.GC15911@zork.net>
References: <20030806035636.GC15911@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20030806040215.GE15911@zork.net>

And now Debian is a running-dog bootlicking collaborationist TOOL OF
THE MAN!

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/debian-devel-200307/msg02405.html

-- 

end
 
 Support your droogs!


From monkey at someplace.us  Wed Aug  6 01:39:15 2003
From: monkey at someplace.us (Monkey from the other side of the jungle)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!]  [joey@infodrom.org: Debian Weekly News -
	August 5th, 2003]
In-Reply-To: <20030806035636.GC15911@zork.net>
References: <20030806035636.GC15911@zork.net>
Message-ID: <1060159154.10611.67531.camel@dante>

On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 23:56, Nick Moffitt wrote:
> Beaujolais to Uncle Bad!
> 
> ----- Forwarded message from Martin Schulze <joey@infodrom.org> -----
> [...]
> 
> DeCSS for Debian? There has been an [48]Intent to Package for DeCSS, a
> utility for stripping CSS tags from an HTML page. Sam Hocevar
> [49]objected to this cluttering of the package namespace with a
> useless program. Brian Nelson [50]quoted the project's [51]website
> which admits that it is pretty much useless.

Oh sure, to _you_ this is all fun and games.  Jon Johanssen isn't
laughing and Jack Valenti sure doesn't think DeCSS is useless.  It's
just a good thing SCO is out there trying to restore order to the
universe so it'll be safe for the children, baby Jesus won't have to
cry, and everyone's dick will be orange in a show of solidarity.

-- 
Only pirates and looters and perverts strip stylesheets.



From inkblot at movealong.org  Wed Aug  6 11:35:18 2003
From: inkblot at movealong.org (The Archduke of Chicago and Subjugator of Michigan)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [joey@infodrom.org: Debian Weekly News - August
	5th, 2003]
In-Reply-To: <1060159154.10611.67531.camel@dante>
References: <20030806035636.GC15911@zork.net>
	<1060159154.10611.67531.camel@dante>
Message-ID: <20030806183518.GA24561@movealong.org>

Just now Monkey from the other side of the jungle made 15 LEDs in my apartment flash with this:
> On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 23:56, Nick Moffitt wrote:
> > Beaujolais to Uncle Bad!
> > 
> > ----- Forwarded message from Martin Schulze <joey@infodrom.org> -----
> > [...]
> > 
> > DeCSS for Debian? There has been an [48]Intent to Package for DeCSS, a
> > utility for stripping CSS tags from an HTML page. Sam Hocevar
> > [49]objected to this cluttering of the package namespace with a
> > useless program. Brian Nelson [50]quoted the project's [51]website
> > which admits that it is pretty much useless.
> 
> Oh sure, to _you_ this is all fun and games.  Jon Johanssen isn't
> laughing and Jack Valenti sure doesn't think DeCSS is useless.  It's
> just a good thing SCO is out there trying to restore order to the
> universe so it'll be safe for the children, baby Jesus won't have to
> cry, and everyone's dick will be orange in a show of solidarity.

                                  |
Typical return on investment:     |######
                                  |
Your return on investment:    ####|
                                  |

-- 
--< ((\))< >----< inkblot@movealong.org >----< http://www.movealong.org/ >--
pub  1024D/05A058E0 2002-03-07 Nate Riffe (06-Mar-2002) <inkblot@movealong.org>
     Key fingerprint = 0DAC F5CB D182 3165 D757  C466 CD42 12A8 05A0 58E0


From apost at recalcitrant.org  Wed Aug  6 12:56:03 2003
From: apost at recalcitrant.org (Alan Post)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] "Every other application is suspect"
Message-ID: <20030806195602.GC338@recalcitrant.org>

In the August ";login:" magazine, we find a summary of a talk given in
May at the Usenix "HotOS-IX" conference:

  Operating Systems: Shouldn't They Be Better?
  Andrew Hume, AT&T Labs -- Research
  
  (Summarized by David Oppenheimer)

  Andrew Hume gave the HosOS keynote talk, explaining that his
  perspective comes from having designed, implemented, and delivered
  large-data applications for more than 10 years.

...

  <description of how Solaris 2.6 sucked>

...

  This system was implemented on a cluster running Linux.  The
  architecture was a "Swiss canton" model of loosely affiliated
  independent nodes with a single locus of control, data replication
  among nodes, and a single error path so that software could only
  halt by crashing (there was no explicit shutdown operation).  Hume
  described eight problems the Gecko implementers experienced with
  Linux (versions 2.4.18 through 2.4.20), including Linux's forcing
  all I/O through a file-system buffer cache with highly unpredictable
  performance scaling (30 MB/sec. to write to one file system at a
  time, 2 MB/sec to write to two at a time), general I/O flakiness
  (1-5% of the time corrupting data read into gzip), TCP/IP networking
  that was slow and that behaved poorly under overload, lack of a good
  file system, nodes that didn't survive two reboots, and slow
  operation of some I/O utilities such as df.  In general, Hume said
  he has concluded that "Linux is good if you want to run Apache or
  compile the kernel.  Every other application is suspect."

  Hume proposed the following definition of OS reliability:  "[The OS]
  does what you ask, or it fails within a modest bounded time."  He
  noted that FreeBSD has comparable functionality to Linux, better
  performance, and higher reliability, and he speculated that this
  might stem from BSD's (and other "clean, lean, effective systems")
  having been built using "a small set of principles extensively used,
  and a sense of taste of what is good practice, clearly articulated
  by a small team of mature, experienced people."  Hume took Linux to
  task for not demonstrating these characteristics, in particular for
  being too bloated in terms of features, and for having been
  developed by too large a team.  Further, he singled out the Carrier
  Grade Linux effort for special condemnation for "addressing zero of
  the [types of] problems" he has had.

--
This mail contains copyrighted material the use of which has not
always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner.  I am
making such material available in my effort to advance bickering,
flaming, and pointless name-calling.  I believe this constitutes a
'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section
107 of the US Copyright Law.  In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C.
Section 107, the material in this mail is distributed without profit
to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving non-sequitur
arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks for research and educational
purposes.  For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml.  If you wish to use
copyrighted material from this mail for purposes of your own that go
beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright
owner.


From chip at pobox.com  Wed Aug  6 13:04:51 2003
From: chip at pobox.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: "Every other application is suspect"
In-Reply-To: <20030806195602.GC338@recalcitrant.org>
References: <20030806195602.GC338@recalcitrant.org>
Message-ID: <20030806200451.GY1751@perlsupport.com>

According to Alan Post:
> general I/O flakiness (1-5% of the time corrupting data read into gzip)

What the hell?  That's bad hardware, or I'll buy a share of SCOX.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg               - a.k.a. -               <chip@pobox.com>
"I wanted to play hopscotch with the impenetrable mystery of existence,
    but he stepped in a wormhole and had to go in early."  // MST3K


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Wed Aug  6 13:09:19 2003
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: "Every other application is suspect"
In-Reply-To: <20030806200451.GY1751@perlsupport.com>
References: <20030806195602.GC338@recalcitrant.org>
	<20030806200451.GY1751@perlsupport.com>
Message-ID: <20030806200919.GN15911@zork.net>

begin  Chip Salzenberg  quotation:
> According to Alan Post:
> > general I/O flakiness (1-5% of the time corrupting data read into
> > gzip)
> 
> What the hell?  That's bad hardware, or I'll buy a share of SCOX.

	You mean you're not already a shareholder?  How the hell are
you supposed to get in on the class-action lawsuit?

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From erin at dasbistro.com  Wed Aug  6 15:48:00 2003
From: erin at dasbistro.com (Erin Quinlan)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [joey@infodrom.org: Debian Weekly News - August
	5th, 2003]
In-Reply-To: <1060159154.10611.67531.camel@dante>
References: <20030806035636.GC15911@zork.net>
	<1060159154.10611.67531.camel@dante>
Message-ID: <20030806224800.GA14673@threepwood.dasbistro.com>

On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 04:39:15AM -0400, Monkey from the other side of the jungle wrote:
> On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 23:56, Nick Moffitt wrote:
> > Beaujolais to Uncle Bad!
> > 
> > ----- Forwarded message from Martin Schulze <joey@infodrom.org> -----
> > [...]
> > 
> > DeCSS for Debian? There has been an [48]Intent to Package for DeCSS, a
> > utility for stripping CSS tags from an HTML page. Sam Hocevar
> > [49]objected to this cluttering of the package namespace with a
> > useless program. Brian Nelson [50]quoted the project's [51]website
> > which admits that it is pretty much useless.
> 
> Oh sure, to _you_ this is all fun and games.  Jon Johanssen isn't
> laughing and Jack Valenti sure doesn't think DeCSS is useless.  It's
> just a good thing SCO is out there trying to restore order to the
> universe so it'll be safe for the children, baby Jesus won't have to
> cry, and everyone's dick will be orange in a show of solidarity.
> 

Hey i think my computer needs more ram for my aol can you help me?

-- 
 Erin Quinlan <erin@dasbistro.com>      http://www.spacezorro.com
 
I think I might trade my computer in for a nice pair of snowshoes.



From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Wed Aug  6 15:51:39 2003
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [joey@infodrom.org: Debian Weekly News - August
	5th, 2003]
In-Reply-To: <20030806224800.GA14673@threepwood.dasbistro.com>
References: <20030806035636.GC15911@zork.net>
	<1060159154.10611.67531.camel@dante>
	<20030806224800.GA14673@threepwood.dasbistro.com>
Message-ID: <20030806225139.GB30124@zork.net>

begin  Erin Quinlan  quotation:
> On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 04:39:15AM -0400, Monkey from the other side of the jungle wrote:
> > Oh sure, to _you_ this is all fun and games.  Jon Johanssen isn't
> > laughing and Jack Valenti sure doesn't think DeCSS is useless.  It's
> > just a good thing SCO is out there trying to restore order to the
> > universe so it'll be safe for the children, baby Jesus won't have to
> > cry, and everyone's dick will be orange in a show of solidarity.
> 
> Hey i think my computer needs more ram for my aol can you help me?

	Your insipid troll window is in front of your AOL window. HTH,
HAND.

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From necco at relst8.net  Wed Aug  6 16:18:53 2003
From: necco at relst8.net (Loki Ambrodious von Esling)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [joey@infodrom.org: Debian Weekly News - August
	5th, 2003]
In-Reply-To: <20030806224800.GA14673@threepwood.dasbistro.com>
References: <20030806035636.GC15911@zork.net>
	<1060159154.10611.67531.camel@dante>
	<20030806224800.GA14673@threepwood.dasbistro.com>
Message-ID: <20030806231853.GA7831@relst8.net>

On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 03:48:00PM -0700, Erin Quinlan wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 04:39:15AM -0400, Monkey from the other side of the jungle wrote:
> > On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 23:56, Nick Moffitt wrote:
> > > Beaujolais to Uncle Bad!
> > > 
> > > ----- Forwarded message from Martin Schulze <joey@infodrom.org> -----
> > > [...]
> > > 
> > > DeCSS for Debian? There has been an [48]Intent to Package for DeCSS, a
> > > utility for stripping CSS tags from an HTML page. Sam Hocevar
> > > [49]objected to this cluttering of the package namespace with a
> > > useless program. Brian Nelson [50]quoted the project's [51]website
> > > which admits that it is pretty much useless.
> > 
> > Oh sure, to _you_ this is all fun and games.  Jon Johanssen isn't
> > laughing and Jack Valenti sure doesn't think DeCSS is useless.  It's
> > just a good thing SCO is out there trying to restore order to the
> > universe so it'll be safe for the children, baby Jesus won't have to
> > cry, and everyone's dick will be orange in a show of solidarity.
> > 
> 
> Hey i think my computer needs more ram for my aol can you help me?
> 

Be sure to purchase a dual format DVD+/-RW (also known as a DVD
Burninator). Adjust the oscillator to derive the FOO RAM from it to your
computer machine's internal BAR RAM-U. 

*Also be sure to upgrade to the latest version of Windows XP be sure you
have the latest Microsoft Office security patches for faster data
access.

Then reboot 3.5 times, and once into safe mode and be sure never to buy
the generic brand of wax beans.

-- 
 . \ ` ' / .
._` __^__ '_.  Loki Ambridous von Esling
   [()=()]     RELST8 - http://www.relst8.net
   /_____\  
  Justified


From apost at recalcitrant.org  Wed Aug  6 16:42:12 2003
From: apost at recalcitrant.org (Alan Post)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [joey@infodrom.org: Debian Weekly News - August
	5th, 2003]
In-Reply-To: <20030806231853.GA7831@relst8.net>
References: <20030806035636.GC15911@zork.net>
	<1060159154.10611.67531.camel@dante>
	<20030806224800.GA14673@threepwood.dasbistro.com>
	<20030806231853.GA7831@relst8.net>
Message-ID: <20030806234212.GF338@recalcitrant.org>

* Loki Ambrodious von Esling (necco@relst8.net) [030806 16:21]:
> 
> Be sure to purchase a dual format DVD+/-RW (also known as a DVD
> Burninator).

!!!!!!!TROGDOR!!!!!!!



From nick at zork.net  Wed Aug  6 19:48:45 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	subscription notification]
Message-ID: <20030807024845.GC30124@zork.net>

Oh boy more toadies.

----- Forwarded message from mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org -----

cshafer@toad.net has been successfully subscribed to CrackMonkey.



----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From nick at zork.net  Wed Aug  6 20:48:15 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	subscription notification]
Message-ID: <20030807034815.GE30124@zork.net>

Oh boy here comes ed lang to test his insipid IMAP bullshit.

----- Forwarded message from mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org -----

dismissed@enomem.net has been successfully subscribed to CrackMonkey.

Edward Lang <edlang@tsumakin.net> has been successfully subscribed to
CrackMonkey.



----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From nick at zork.net  Wed Aug  6 20:54:41 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
Message-ID: <20030807035441.GF30124@zork.net>

What did I tell you.  Hell, I bet you that other guy was just a
smokescreen.

----- Forwarded message from mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org -----

edward.lang@anu.edu.au has been removed from CrackMonkey.


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From neale at woozle.org  Wed Aug  6 21:29:03 2003
From: neale at woozle.org (Neale Pickett)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [joey@infodrom.org: Debian Weekly News - August
	5th, 2003]
In-Reply-To: <20030806234212.GF338@recalcitrant.org> (Alan Post's message of
	"Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:42:12 -0700")
References: <20030806035636.GC15911@zork.net>
	<1060159154.10611.67531.camel@dante>
	<20030806224800.GA14673@threepwood.dasbistro.com>
	<20030806231853.GA7831@relst8.net>
	<20030806234212.GF338@recalcitrant.org>
Message-ID: <w53ekzyks4w.fsf@woozle.org>

Alan Post <apost@recalcitrant.org> writes:

> * Loki Ambrodious von Esling (necco@relst8.net) [030806 16:21]:
>> 
>> Be sure to purchase a dual format DVD+/-RW (also known as a DVD
>> Burninator).
>
> !!!!!!!TROGDOR!!!!!!!

Take your proprietary Macromedia gar elsewhere, homeboy.

-- 
Everybody to the limit.
 -- #3 of Berkeley


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Wed Aug  6 21:34:22 2003
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [joey@infodrom.org: Debian Weekly News - August
	5th, 2003]
In-Reply-To: <w53ekzyks4w.fsf@woozle.org>
References: <20030806035636.GC15911@zork.net>
	<1060159154.10611.67531.camel@dante>
	<20030806224800.GA14673@threepwood.dasbistro.com>
	<20030806231853.GA7831@relst8.net>
	<20030806234212.GF338@recalcitrant.org>
	<w53ekzyks4w.fsf@woozle.org>
Message-ID: <20030807043422.GH30124@zork.net>

begin  Neale Pickett  quotation:
> Alan Post <apost@recalcitrant.org> writes:
> > * Loki Ambrodious von Esling (necco@relst8.net) [030806 16:21]:
> >> Be sure to purchase a dual format DVD+/-RW (also known as a DVD
> >> Burninator).
> >
> > !!!!!!!TROGDOR!!!!!!!
> 
> Take your proprietary Macromedia gar elsewhere, homeboy.

	So are we all going to see Macromedia Trogdor puzzle-pieces
everywhere now?

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From apost at recalcitrant.org  Wed Aug  6 21:51:35 2003
From: apost at recalcitrant.org (Alan Post)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [joey@infodrom.org: Debian Weekly News - August
	5th, 2003]
In-Reply-To: <w53ekzyks4w.fsf@woozle.org>
References: <20030806035636.GC15911@zork.net>
	<1060159154.10611.67531.camel@dante>
	<20030806224800.GA14673@threepwood.dasbistro.com>
	<20030806231853.GA7831@relst8.net>
	<20030806234212.GF338@recalcitrant.org>
	<w53ekzyks4w.fsf@woozle.org>
Message-ID: <20030807045135.GH338@recalcitrant.org>

* Neale Pickett (neale@woozle.org) [030806 21:32]:
> 
> Take your proprietary Macromedia gar elsewhere, homeboy.

My mom doesn't let me use proprietary software, so I had
to watch the movie at my friend's house.


From necco at relst8.net  Wed Aug  6 21:54:11 2003
From: necco at relst8.net (Loki Ambrodious von Esling)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [joey@infodrom.org: Debian Weekly News - August
	5th, 2003]
In-Reply-To: <20030806234212.GF338@recalcitrant.org>
References: <20030806035636.GC15911@zork.net>
	<1060159154.10611.67531.camel@dante>
	<20030806224800.GA14673@threepwood.dasbistro.com>
	<20030806231853.GA7831@relst8.net>
	<20030806234212.GF338@recalcitrant.org>
Message-ID: <20030807045411.GA8763@relst8.net>

On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 04:42:12PM -0700, Alan Post wrote:
> * Loki Ambrodious von Esling (necco@relst8.net) [030806 16:21]:
> > 
> > Be sure to purchase a dual format DVD+/-RW (also known as a DVD
> > Burninator).
> 
> !!!!!!!TROGDOR!!!!!!!

Wow, it's just like when I worked for HP/Compaq the monday that whole
thing started. AT LEAST TWENTY NERDS WERE BLASTING THAT FROM THEIR
CUBICLES.

IT WAS SO LOUD AND OUT OF SYNC I COULDN'T EVEN HEAR MY CHRISTIAN DEATH
METAL MP3S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


-- 
 . \ ` ' / .
._` __^__ '_.  Loki Ambridous von Esling
   [()=()]     RELST8 - http://www.relst8.net
   /_____\  
  Justified


From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu  Wed Aug  6 22:03:44 2003
From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [joey@infodrom.org: Debian Weekly News - August
	5th, 2003] 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 06 Aug 2003 04:39:15 EDT."
	<1060159154.10611.67531.camel@dante> 
References: <20030806035636.GC15911@zork.net>
	<1060159154.10611.67531.camel@dante>
Message-ID: <200308070503.h7753i6h005806@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>

On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 04:39:15 EDT, Monkey from the other side of the jungle <monkey@someplace.us>  said:

> cry, and everyone's dick will be orange in a show of solidarity.

That's pansy solidarity.  You need to ask this spammer about *real* solidarity:

Subject: Break Walls Apart With Your Humungous Knob mkhqyyhufbx ayd
From: "Cora Medrano" <iqicuh@juno.com>




From nick at zork.net  Thu Aug  7 07:13:13 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
Message-ID: <20030807141313.GD12148@zork.net>

Attrition makes us strong.

----- Forwarded message from mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org -----

chris@darkrock.co.uk has been removed from CrackMonkey.


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From dsaklad at zurich.ai.mit.edu  Thu Aug  7 18:39:10 2003
From: dsaklad at zurich.ai.mit.edu (Don Saklad)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] OBSCURE CHARACTERS BY FAMOUS CREATORS
Message-ID: <E19kwDm-0001Ji-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>

132. OBSCURE CHARACTERS BY FAMOUS CREATORS
http://dreamwater.org/fsad/lemon221.htm

Among others...

Crumb, after taking the famous "fuzzy acid" (don't try this at home, kids),
created Eggs Ackley, the Vulture Demonesses, The Snoid, Artsy Fartsy, Av 'n'
Gar, Itsy and Bitsy, The Simp and the Gimp, and, oddest of all, Shabno the
Shoehorn Dog.

Along with Binky Brown, Justin Greene created Rowdy Noody (also see Popsicle
Pete), The Sage Monkey, Sol Snake-Eyes, and The O'Geeks.

Elzie Segar worked on a Chaplin-manque strip called "Pa's Imported Son In Law";
Thimble Theatre was originally a tribute of sorts to Ed Wheelan's Minute
Movies, and Segar's strip Sappo, which appeared on Sundays along with the
Popeye continuities, is often very funny.

George Herriman created a great many precursors to Krazy Kat, including
Gooseberry Sprig, The Family Upstairs (underneath which the Kat first
appeared), and others I can't recall offhand. Ditto Walt Kelly;along with Pogo
he did a comic book called Peter Wheat (a promotional giveaway for a bread
company).

Al Capp created (though he didn't draw), and wrote several years worth of
scripts for, Abbie 'n' Slats. Capp also worked on a faux-Major Hoople Strip
called Colonel (later Mr.) Gilfeather, which he eventually tuned over to Milt
Caniff.

http://dreamwater.org/fsad/lemon221.htm


From nick at zork.net  Fri Aug  8 09:17:07 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
Message-ID: <20030808161707.GO12148@zork.net>

Happy arbor day or whatever

----- Forwarded message from mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org -----

krylenko@arbornet.org has been removed from CrackMonkey.


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From carlos at laviola.org  Sat Aug  9 01:14:06 2003
From: carlos at laviola.org (Carlos Laviola)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20030803055141.GD30374@zork.net>
References: <20030803055141.GD30374@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20030809081406.GA9668@laviola.org>

On Sat, Aug 02, 2003 at 10:51:42PM -0700, Nick Moffitt wrote:
> Okay whatever bye.
> 
> ----- Forwarded message from mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org -----
> 
> ashankar@nls.ac.in has been removed from CrackMonkey.

I'm glad to see you've stopped outsourcing subscribers to India, Mr.
Monkey.

-- 
Carlos Laviola <carlos@laviola.org>


From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Sun Aug 10 22:00:32 2003
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] false
Message-ID: <20030811050032.GB10903@callisto.jtan.com>

# cat /usr/bin/false
#! /bin/sh
#Tag 3840
#       Copyright (c) 1984 AT&T
#         All Rights Reserved

#       THIS IS UNPUBLISHED PROPRIETARY SOURCE CODE OF AT&T
#       The copyright notice above does not evidence any
#       actual or intended publication of such source code.

#ident  "@(#)false:false.sh     1.3"
#ident  "$Revision: 1.5 $"
exit 255


It's fucking published now, right?

-- 
Bob Bernstein   


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Sun Aug 10 22:11:57 2003
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] false
In-Reply-To: <20030811050032.GB10903@callisto.jtan.com>
References: <20030811050032.GB10903@callisto.jtan.com>
Message-ID: <20030811051157.GC21746@zork.net>

begin  Bob Bernstein  quotation:
> exit 255
> 
> It's fucking published now, right?

	Welcome to 1995, man.  This was a big jape during the BSD
wars.

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Sun Aug 10 22:28:53 2003
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] false
In-Reply-To: <20030811051157.GC21746@zork.net>
References: <20030811050032.GB10903@callisto.jtan.com>
	<20030811051157.GC21746@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20030811052853.GC10903@callisto.jtan.com>

On Sun, Aug 10, 2003 at 10:11:57PM -0700, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote:

> 	Welcome to 1995, man.  This was a big jape during the BSD
> wars.

Oh yeah. I'm working on this SGI Irix antique and stumbled across that 
wonderful bit of prose. Written by one of those agent guys from the 
Matrix I think...sorta creeped me out. But I fixed 'em right? I 
published it!!! Got ta lay off the nyquil and sudafed...

-- 
Bob Bernstein   


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Sun Aug 10 22:31:21 2003
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] false
In-Reply-To: <20030811052853.GC10903@callisto.jtan.com>
References: <20030811050032.GB10903@callisto.jtan.com>
	<20030811051157.GC21746@zork.net>
	<20030811052853.GC10903@callisto.jtan.com>
Message-ID: <20030811053120.GD21746@zork.net>

begin  Bob Bernstein  quotation:
> Oh yeah. I'm working on this SGI Irix antique and stumbled across
> that wonderful bit of prose. Written by one of those agent guys from
> the Matrix I think...sorta creeped me out. But I fixed 'em right? I
> published it!!! Got ta lay off the nyquil and sudafed...

	Of course, the punchline is the revision number: 1.5.

	What could they possibly have got wrong in 1.1-1.4?

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Sun Aug 10 22:43:43 2003
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] false
In-Reply-To: <20030811053120.GD21746@zork.net>
References: <20030811050032.GB10903@callisto.jtan.com>
	<20030811051157.GC21746@zork.net>
	<20030811052853.GC10903@callisto.jtan.com>
	<20030811053120.GD21746@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20030811054343.GD10903@callisto.jtan.com>

On Sun, Aug 10, 2003 at 10:31:21PM -0700, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote:

> 	What could they possibly have got wrong in 1.1-1.4?

The copyright blurb wasn't sufficiently threatening, in a curiously 
castrating sort of way?

(Or maybe they had to pull back from something like "Ve know vhere your 
children live." in v. 1.4?)

-- 
Bob Bernstein   


From dsaklad at zurich.ai.mit.edu  Mon Aug 11 05:05:57 2003
From: dsaklad at zurich.ai.mit.edu (Don Saklad)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Boston Public Library users/consumers. BPL staff.
Message-ID: <E19mBQz-00067L-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>

Thank you for using Consumers Union Mail System
http://capwiz.com/consumersunion/home/

Senator Kerry
Message text follows:

Dear Senator Kerry

Our Boston Public Library has denied, delayed or applied punishing additional
fees for access to legitimately public city government archives including
public library department archival public records.

Long range planning for our public libraries should involve greater citizen
participation but it is not possible without access to the long range planning
studies and reports. BPL President Bernie Margolis is adamant that the
information is available when in reality the information can not be accessed
without more extreme persistant measures on the part of public libraries users,
public libraries consumers and public libraries staff interested, concerned or
affected by long range planning.

Please look into the denial of intellectual freedom at our Boston Public 
Library.

The Chairman of our BPL Board is Bill Taylor.

Sincerely,
Don Warner Saklad


From neuro at well.com  Mon Aug 11 06:37:11 2003
From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Boston Public Library users/consumers. BPL staff.
References: <E19mBQz-00067L-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <035501c3600d$ab59b450$c902a8c0@local.zensoft.net>

Don Saklad wrote:
> [snip]
> BPL President Bernie Margolis is adamant

Is he berserker, Wolverine style?  Or is he trusted distro?  Or is he faded
80s pop star?  The truth will out!  Public inquiry!

-- 
_ __/|   ___  ___ __ _________ "When Microsoft Office is your only hammer,
\`O_o'  / _ \/ -_) // / __/ _ \ pretty much everything begins to look like
=(_ _)=/_//_/\__/\_,_/_/  \___/ a nail. Or a thumb." -- Rob Pegoraro
   U - Ack! Phttpt! Thhbbt!     neuro at well dot com  http://neuro.me.uk/



From simm at zork.net  Mon Aug 11 06:43:48 2003
From: simm at zork.net (Senator Simm Al-Kerry)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Boston Public Library users/consumers. BPL staff.
In-Reply-To: <E19mBQz-00067L-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
References: <E19mBQz-00067L-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <20030811134348.GJ25090@zork.net>


Dear Constituent,

I appreciate your interest in the political atmosphere of our nation.
As, Senator, I am committed to serving the needs of the voters.  The
War on Terror and the safe being of Americans is something my office
has been fully supporting. I also appreciate the concept of feeding
homeless children and such. 

I spoke with Mr. Bill Taylor at a recent Elks meeting and he will be
forwarding me all information regarding material you have checked out
in the past, as per your instructions.

-- 
Senator Kerry


begin  Don Saklad  quotation:
> Thank you for using Consumers Union Mail System
> http://capwiz.com/consumersunion/home/
> 
> Senator Kerry
> Message text follows:
> 
> Dear Senator Kerry
> 
> Our Boston Public Library has denied, delayed or applied punishing additional
> fees for access to legitimately public city government archives including
> public library department archival public records.
> 
> Long range planning for our public libraries should involve greater citizen
> participation but it is not possible without access to the long range planning
> studies and reports. BPL President Bernie Margolis is adamant that the
> information is available when in reality the information can not be accessed
> without more extreme persistant measures on the part of public libraries users,
> public libraries consumers and public libraries staff interested, concerned or
> affected by long range planning.
> 
> Please look into the denial of intellectual freedom at our Boston Public 
> Library.
> 
> The Chairman of our BPL Board is Bill Taylor.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Don Warner Saklad
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks
> http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey



From dmarti at zgp.org  Tue Aug 12 10:57:06 2003
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Due Process
Message-ID: <20030812175706.GT22221@zgp.org>

Good explanation of Due Process at everyone's favorite news site:

  The use of material witness statutes to imprison suspects
  without evidence, without accusation and without trial is a
  BLATANT violation of due process. That's why the Mike Hawash
  case was important. And the good news here is, we won! Because
  freedom-loving Americans such as myself raised a REAL BIG STINK
  over Mike Hawash, the Feds were forced to bring actual charges
  against him, and to conduct his prosecution under criminal law,
  like they should have done from the beginning.

http://pigdog.org/auto/treachery/link/2858.html

-- 
Don Marti                Reform copyright law -- return abandoned works
http://zgp.org/~dmarti   to the public domain after 50 years:
dmarti@zgp.org           http://www.PetitionOnline.com/eldred/petition.html
KG6INA


From dsaklad at zurich.ai.mit.edu  Tue Aug 12 19:14:17 2003
From: dsaklad at zurich.ai.mit.edu (Don Saklad)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Index. Procedures. Directives.
Message-ID: <E19ml9V-0006jc-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>

               If you would, please consider advocating the acquisition,
               accession and a descriptive catalog listing for the handbook as
               well as any and all other institutional archival public records
               of our Boston Public Library.

               That people interested, concerned or affected by the BPL might
               study, learn and research it as well as all the other topics
               offered among the lib's collections is an important part of
               understanding our municipal organizations.



Boston Public Library
[ logo http://www.bpl.org/graphics/logo-home.gif ]

Copley Square
700 Boylston Street
Boston Massachusetts 02116
617 536 5400
http://www.bpl.org

Email Requests:
1. Employee Handbook
2. Index of BPL procedures; Index of BPL directives".

I am in receipt of your emailed requests of August 1, 2003 for
"BPL Employee Handbooks" and the
"index/list of BPL procedures; index/list of BPL directives".

The Library has no documents that correspond to your request for the
"index/list of BPL procedures" or the
"index/list of BPL directives".

A copy of the BPL Employee Handbook has been left for you at the
Book Delivery Desk, 2nd floor, of the Central Library for your
in-house use.

Sincerely yours,
Ruth E. Kowal
Director of Operations

Cc: Jutta Duborg, Assistant Corporation Counsel, City of Boston

Books are just the beginning.
[ tag line http://www.bpl.org/news/campaign.htm ]


From ruben at mrbrklyn.com  Wed Aug 13 18:20:26 2003
From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:41 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Due Process
In-Reply-To: <20030812175706.GT22221@zgp.org>;
	from dmarti@zgp.org on Tue, Aug 12, 2003 at 13:57:06 -0400
References: <20030812175706.GT22221@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <20030813212026.A7651@www2.mrbrklyn.com>

On the other side of the argument: (opinions expressed are not my own)


The Terrorist Next Door

by Daniel Pipes
New York Post
August 12, 2003
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/1195
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/2969.htm

Howls of rage went up after the Joint Terrorism Task Force, guns drawn, arrested Maher Hawash in the parking lot of an Intel Corp. facility in March and placed him in solitary confinement. The protests intensified as prosecutors detained him without charges for more than a month in an Oregon jail while they pored over the evidence.

This all came as a particular shock, for Maher Mofeid "Mike" Hawash personified the American success story. A Palestinian born in Nablus in 1964 and reared in Kuwait, he arrived in the United States in 1984, earning degrees in electrical engineering at the University of Texas. He went on to work for Compaq in 1989 and became a U.S. citizen in 1990.

His career at Intel began in 1992, where he worked on video technologies. When his father fell ill, he got Intel to transfer him to its plant in Israel, where he lived for two years. He married Lisa Ryan in 1995 and fathered two children. In 1997 he published a well-received book on video graphic formats with the prestigious scientific press Addison-Wesley.

Hawash had achieved much by 2000. He worked at one of the world's greatest companies, earned nearly $360,000 a year, had a circle of friends, and was admired for his volunteer activities.

But that same year, neighbors reported to the FBI, he became noticeably more devout. He grew a beard, wore Arab clothing, prayed five times a day and regularly attended mosque. He also became noticeably less friendly.

Further inquiry found that Hawash paid up his house mortgage (interest payments go against Islamic law) and donated more than $10,000 to the Global Relief Foundation, an Islamic charity subsequently closed for financing terrorist groups. Early in 2001, he went on pilgrimage to Mecca. And "Middle Eastern males" were seen coming and going from his house.

Friends and co-workers condemned such information as "guilt by association." Nothing in Hawash's actions, they insisted, justified his incarceration, and they made their views known. They launched FreeMikeHawash.org and wrote letters to the editor. They set up a legal defense fund and staged protests on the streets of Portland, Ore.

Hawash's former boss at Intel, Steven McGeady, became his champion, portraying Hawash as an average "Arab-American with a job and a family." McGeady dubbed the arrest "Alice in Wonderland meets Franz Kafka" and dismissed the charges against Hawash as "baseless" or "completely insane."

Supporters filled Northwest newspapers with alarms. One professor portrayed Hawash's incarceration as "part of a consistent pattern of suppression of civil liberties." Columnists and letter writers compared the United States to a "Third World country," Orwell's "1984," Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union. Militant Islamic groups like the Council on American-Islamic Relations saw in Hawash's arrest "serious damage" to the standing of American Muslims.

Hawash's high-powered career and supporters together turned him into the symbol of the pious Muslim victimized by a biased and overzealous justice system.

And then, on Aug. 6, this whole illusionary edifice came crashing down: Hawash pleaded guilty to conspiring to help the Taliban. He also agreed to cooperate fully with the prosecution and waived his right to appeal his conviction and sentence. In return, the government dismissed the other counts against Hawash.

How did his supporters take this news? A media search turns up not a single mea culpa. Instead, they responded with denial and silence. "I don't know if I feel betrayed. I'm not dwelling on that now," said one of his staunchest sympathizers. "I want to hear directly from him before I believe it," said another. At the Aug. 6 hearing, reports the Oregonian newspaper, "The throngs of friends and supporters who publicly protested on Hawash's behalf at previous hearings" were noticeably absent. Militant Islamic lobby groups lost their voice.

In short, while Hawash confessed to his crime, his supporters refused to admit their mistakes.

There are two lessons here. First, profiling can work. Alert neighbors reporting on apparently militant Islamic activities brought Hawash to law enforcement's attention.

Second, sympathizers of terrorist suspects are entitled to express surprise and tell heart-warming stories about them. But shrill charges of racism and appalling comparisons to Nazi Germany impede the U.S. government's efforts to protect Americans.

To comment on this article, please go to http://www.danielpipes.org/article/1195#comment
To see the Daniel Pipes archive, go to http://www.DanielPipes.org



To subscribe to or unsubscribe from this list, go to http://www.DanielPipes.org/subscribe.php
???(Daniel Pipes sends out a mailing of his writings 2-3 times a week.)

Sign up for related (but non-duplicating) e-mail services:
???Middle East Forum (media alerts, event reports, MEQ articles): http://www.meforum.org/subscribe.php
???Middle East Intelligence Bulletin (monthly publication): http://meib.org/maillist_survey.htm

You may freely forward this information, but on condition that you send the text as an integral whole along with complete information about its author, date, and source.




On 2003.08.12 13:57 Don Marti wrote:
> Good explanation of Due Process at everyone's favorite news site:
> 
>   The use of material witness statutes to imprison suspects
>   without evidence, without accusation and without trial is a
>   BLATANT violation of due process. That's why the Mike Hawash
>   case was important. And the good news here is, we won! Because
>   freedom-loving Americans such as myself raised a REAL BIG STINK
>   over Mike Hawash, the Feds were forced to bring actual charges
>   against him, and to conduct his prosecution under criminal law,
>   like they should have done from the beginning.
> 
> http://pigdog.org/auto/treachery/link/2858.html
> 
> -- 
> Don Marti                Reform copyright law -- return abandoned works
> http://zgp.org/~dmarti   to the public domain after 50 years:
> dmarti@zgp.org           http://www.PetitionOnline.com/eldred/petition.html
> KG6INA
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks
> http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey
> 
-- 
__________________________
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com

http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....

1-718-382-0585


From dmarti at zgp.org  Wed Aug 13 20:46:34 2003
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Norton, Emperor of Spam?
Message-ID: <20030814034634.GD30008@zgp.org>

So how come most of the proprietary software spam I get is for Norton
products?  Do they have a multi-level marketing progrm or something?

-- 
Don Marti                Reform copyright law -- return abandoned works
http://zgp.org/~dmarti   to the public domain after 50 years:
dmarti@zgp.org           http://www.PetitionOnline.com/eldred/petition.html
KG6INA


From edlang at tsumakin.net  Wed Aug 13 21:03:19 2003
From: edlang at tsumakin.net (Edward C. Lang)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Due Process
In-Reply-To: <20030813212026.A7651@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
References: <20030812175706.GT22221@zgp.org>
	<20030813212026.A7651@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
Message-ID: <1060833784.14229.4.camel@protein>

On Thu, 2003-08-14 at 11:20, Ruben I Safir wrote:
> On the other side of the argument: (opinions expressed are not
> my own)

So if the article you attached doesn't completely and accurately express
(or reflect) your opinion, why bother posting it in its entirity? 

> Hawash had achieved much by 2000. He worked at one of the world's 
> greatest companies, earned nearly $360,000 a year, had a circle of 
> friends, and was admired for his volunteer activities.

[...]

> Further inquiry found that Hawash paid up his house mortgage 
> (interest payments go against Islamic law) and donated more than 
> $10,000 to the Global Relief Foundation, an Islamic charity 
> subsequently closed for financing terrorist groups. Early in 2001,
> he went on pilgrimage to Mecca. And "Middle Eastern males" were 
> seen coming and going from his house.

ha ha we will know the terrorists by their perfect credit ratings and
well defined sense of friendship and altruism. No decent, honest, God
fearing merkin would ever subscribe to those values.

-- 

http://www.tsumakin.net/



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Thu Aug 14 01:01:21 2003
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Due Process
In-Reply-To: <20030813212026.A7651@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
References: <20030812175706.GT22221@zgp.org>
	<20030813212026.A7651@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
Message-ID: <20030814080120.GU20458@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Ruben I Safir (ruben@mrbrklyn.com):

[Quoting Daniel Pipes of the New York Post:]

> And then, on Aug. 6, this whole illusionary edifice came crashing
> down: Hawash pleaded guilty to conspiring to help the Taliban. He also
> agreed to cooperate fully with the prosecution and waived his right to
> appeal his conviction and sentence. In return, the government
> dismissed the other counts against Hawash.
> 
> How did his supporters take this news? A media search turns up not a
> single mea culpa. 

Let's wind back that story a bit:  An American family man is seized at
gunpoint in March 2003, and held incommunicado without being charged
with any crime, without trial, without the ability to talk to his family
or lawyers -- for five months.  

Five months, Ruben.  Five months of staring at a concrete wall, being
leaned on by Feds, probably being told you're an enemy of the state
without any Constitutional rights you can assert, and won't see your
family again unless you play along.

Five, Ruben.  Five months.  

After almost half a year of that treatment, he signed a paper put in
front of him confessing that he'd planned to go to Afghanistan in 2001
and fight for the Taleban.  In exchange, as part of a plea bargain deal,
he gets seven to ten, with the likelihood of early parole if he
continues to be a good boy.

Was the statement that he signed after five months in the oubliette so
he could eventually see his family _correct_?  I don't know.  Nor do
you, I'll wager.  Five others alleged to have been in his conspiracy,
who have _not_ spent those months in solitary without due process of
law, have indignantly pleaded innocent of the "conspiracy" charge.

But this I do know:  The process by which that signature was secured
from that man stinks to high heaven, and a blot on this country.

> In short, while Hawash confessed to his crime, his supporters refused
> to admit their mistakes.

Hey, screw that.  This is _America_, Mr. Pipes.  We don't throw people in
prison without charge just to pressure plea bargains out of them.
Apparently in Mr. Bush's and Mr. Pipes's America we do, but not in mine.

The pity of it is that Hawash might well be factually guilty of the one
criminal charge he plea-bargained to in order to regain a few years of
freedom -- but at this point the process to determine that has been so
poisoned that we'll probably never know.

And the poison doesn't just seep into Hawash, not even primarily:  It
seeps into the justice system as a whole:  The next time some FBI agent
or White House flunkie thinks he's spotted a subject but doesn't think
the evidence is strong enough to bring an actual criminal case, he'll 
think "Well, let's just use the treatment that worked on Hawash.  It's 
way easier."

-- 
Cheers,              First they came for the verbs, and I said nothing, for
Rick Moen            verbing weirds language.  Then, they arrival for the nouns
rick@linuxmafia.com  and I speech nothing, for I no verbs. - Peter Ellis


From apost at recalcitrant.org  Thu Aug 14 01:14:36 2003
From: apost at recalcitrant.org (Alan Post)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Norton, Emperor of Spam?
In-Reply-To: <20030814034634.GD30008@zgp.org>
References: <20030814034634.GD30008@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <20030814081436.GI330@recalcitrant.org>

* Don Marti (dmarti@zgp.org) [030813 20:55]:
> So how come most of the proprietary software spam I get is for Norton
> products?  Do they have a multi-level marketing progrm or something?

Probably because the sort of people who buy AV software are the same
sort of people who respond to spam advertisements.


From apost at recalcitrant.org  Thu Aug 14 01:27:39 2003
From: apost at recalcitrant.org (Alan Post)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Due Process
In-Reply-To: <20030814080120.GU20458@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20030812175706.GT22221@zgp.org>
	<20030813212026.A7651@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814080120.GU20458@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20030814082738.GJ330@recalcitrant.org>

* Rick Moen (rick@linuxmafia.com) [030814 01:04]:
> 
> Hey, screw that.  This is _America_, Mr. Pipes.  We don't throw people in
> prison without charge just to pressure plea bargains out of them.
> Apparently in Mr. Bush's and Mr. Pipes's America we do, but not in mine.

Mr. Bush and friends are going to do as they damn well please.  They
really don't care what you think about it.

Obviously you are not throwing people in in jail.  Who is this "we"?
How is your "America" somehow not under the control of the US
Government?

You should be more careful with your use of the first person.


From ruben at mrbrklyn.com  Thu Aug 14 05:51:10 2003
From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Due Process
In-Reply-To: <20030814080120.GU20458@linuxmafia.com>;
	from rick@linuxmafia.com on Thu, Aug 14, 2003 at 04:01:21 -0400
References: <20030812175706.GT22221@zgp.org>
	<20030813212026.A7651@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814080120.GU20458@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20030814085110.A18437@www2.mrbrklyn.com>

Was he a US Citizen?



> 
> Let's wind back that story a bit:  An American family man is seized at
> gunpoint in March 2003, and held incommunicado without being charged
> with any crime, without trial, without the ability to talk to his family
> or lawyers -- for five months.  
> 

-- 
__________________________
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com

http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....

1-718-382-0585


From ruben at mrbrklyn.com  Thu Aug 14 06:07:08 2003
From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Due Process
In-Reply-To: <20030814082738.GJ330@recalcitrant.org>
References: <20030812175706.GT22221@zgp.org>
	<20030813212026.A7651@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814080120.GU20458@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030814082738.GJ330@recalcitrant.org>
Message-ID: <20030814130708.GA18678@www2.mrbrklyn.com>

it is We


as in 'We the People'

You never watched Star Trek...jeez

> 
> Obviously you are not throwing people in in jail.  Who is this "we"?
> How is your "America" somehow not under the control of the US
> Government?
> 
> You should be more careful with your use of the first person.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks
> http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey

-- 
__________________________
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com

http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....

1-718-382-0585


From ruben at mrbrklyn.com  Thu Aug 14 06:13:03 2003
From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: gnu/linux type of computer
In-Reply-To: <20030801180034.GQ16321@tastytronic.net>
References: <E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
	<20030801131633.GJ16321@tastytronic.net>
	<20030801134029.GA20109@oven.home.net>
	<20030801135222.GL16321@tastytronic.net>
	<200308011526.h71FQlr14051@mail0.rawbw.com>
	<20030801153042.GV20242@lug.org.uk>
	<200308011744.h71Hi3r68029@mail0.rawbw.com>
	<20030801180034.GQ16321@tastytronic.net>
Message-ID: <20030814131303.GA18762@www2.mrbrklyn.com>

Good

We'll need that after we nuke a few of the old ones.

Ruben

> 
> It's Dean Kamen's new invention. Steve Jobs said it will revolutionize
> the way we build cities.
> 
> -- 
> Peter A. Peterson II, technician and musician.
>  ---=[ http://tastytronic.net/~pedro/ ]=--- 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks
> http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey

-- 
__________________________
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com

http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....

1-718-382-0585


From andy at strugglers.net  Thu Aug 14 06:27:24 2003
From: andy at strugglers.net (Andy Smith)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Due Process
In-Reply-To: <20030814085110.A18437@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
References: <20030812175706.GT22221@zgp.org>
	<20030813212026.A7651@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814080120.GU20458@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030814085110.A18437@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
Message-ID: <20030814132724.GV22936@lug.org.uk>

On Thu, Aug 14, 2003 at 08:51:10AM -0400, Ruben I Safir wrote:
> Was he a US Citizen?

I can barely accept the fact that you're a top-posting fuckwit, but
is it too much to ask that you read the material that you yourself
are posting here?

> This all came as a particular shock, for Maher Mofeid "Mike"
> Hawash personified the American success story. A Palestinian born
> in Nablus in 1964 and reared in Kuwait, he arrived in the United
> States in 1984, earning degrees in electrical engineering at the
> University of Texas. He went on to work for Compaq in 1989 and
> became a U.S. citizen in 1990.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

-- 
"If you only ever read one book in your life, I highly recommend you keep your
 mouth shut."
 -- The League Against Tedium


From necco at relst8.net  Thu Aug 14 09:51:45 2003
From: necco at relst8.net (Loki Ambrodious von Esling)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Norton, Emperor of Spam?
In-Reply-To: <20030814034634.GD30008@zgp.org>
References: <20030814034634.GD30008@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <20030814165145.GC23985@relst8.net>

On Wed, Aug 13, 2003 at 08:46:34PM -0700, Don Marti wrote:
> So how come most of the proprietary software spam I get is for Norton
> products?  Do they have a multi-level marketing progrm or something?
> 

becuase you failed to use spamgourmet.com? 

or u RNT L33t n use wind0w3z and n33e virus scanners for your 0dayz

-- 
 . \ ` ' / .
._` __^__ '_.  Loki Ambridous von Esling
   [()=()]     RELST8 - http://www.relst8.net
   /_____\  
  Justified


From rick at linuxmafia.com  Thu Aug 14 10:13:42 2003
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Due Process
In-Reply-To: <20030814085110.A18437@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
References: <20030812175706.GT22221@zgp.org>
	<20030813212026.A7651@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814080120.GU20458@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030814085110.A18437@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
Message-ID: <20030814171342.GL15789@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Ruben I Safir (ruben@mrbrklyn.com):

> Was he a US Citizen?

Is.  Maher Hawash _is_ a US citizen.




From dismissed at enomem.net  Thu Aug 14 11:17:00 2003
From: dismissed at enomem.net (Dismissed)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Norton, Emperor of Spam?
In-Reply-To: <20030814034634.GD30008@zgp.org>
References: <20030814034634.GD30008@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <20030814181700.GA8513@mikamyla.com>

Quothe Don Marti <dmarti@zgp.org>, on Wed, Aug 13, 2003:
> So how come most of the proprietary software spam I get is for Norton
> products?  Do they have a multi-level marketing progrm or something?
> 

ITYM "Symantec"


From chip at pobox.com  Thu Aug 14 11:25:00 2003
From: chip at pobox.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: Norton, Emperor of Spam?
In-Reply-To: <20030814034634.GD30008@zgp.org>
References: <20030814034634.GD30008@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <20030814182500.GA24349@perlsupport.com>

According to Don Marti:
> So how come most of the proprietary software spam I get is for Norton
> products?

IIRC, it's a different Norton.  it's intentional name confusion.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg               - a.k.a. -               <chip@pobox.com>
"I wanted to play hopscotch with the impenetrable mystery of existence,
    but he stepped in a wormhole and had to go in early."  // MST3K


From mr.bad at pigdog.org  Thu Aug 14 11:29:37 2003
From: mr.bad at pigdog.org (Mister Bad)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [David Winning] 
Message-ID: <87ptj8rt2m.fsf@unicorn.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

Crap! I'm totally in TROUBLE because of OVERACTIVE CRACKMONKEY GOOGLE
JUICE. I had no clue what this was about...

---8<---
From: "David Winning" <contact@davidwinning.com>
To: <mr.bad@pigdog.org>
Subject: 
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:19:34 -0700

schmoe???!

DW
www.davidwinning.com
---8<---

...until I did this Google search:

         http://www.google.com/search?q=David+Winning+schmoe

OOOOOPS! My fanboy enthusiasm for Brian Behlendorf gets me IN HOT
WATER ONCE AGAIN. How did I manage to get on the BAD SIDE of the
HOLLYWOOD SCI-FI MACHINE?!

~Mr. Bad

-- 
X-Email:  mr.bad@pigdog.org
X-Jabber: MisterBad@pighaven.org 
X-Pigdog-Journal: http://www.pigdog.org/
X-Quote: "I think a man is as big as what makes him mad." -- Reno Smith




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Thu Aug 14 11:54:02 2003
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [David Winning]
In-Reply-To: <87ptj8rt2m.fsf@unicorn.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <87ptj8rt2m.fsf@unicorn.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <20030814185402.GZ20458@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Mister Bad (mr.bad@pigdog.org):

> Crap! I'm totally in TROUBLE because of OVERACTIVE CRACKMONKEY GOOGLE
> JUICE. I had no clue what this was about...

The Winning Mafia 0WNZ J00!

-- 
Cheers,              First they came for the verbs, and I said nothing, for
Rick Moen            verbing weirds language.  Then, they arrival for the nouns
rick@linuxmafia.com  and I speech nothing, for I no verbs. - Peter Ellis


From mr.bad at pigdog.org  Thu Aug 14 13:04:11 2003
From: mr.bad at pigdog.org (Mister Bad)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] For Those Who Travel
Message-ID: <87brusqa4k.fsf@unicorn.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

I'm trying to plug a new Web system I created, so I figured I'd pop it
in here.

Some of you may know that Maj and I travelled through Thailand and
Vietnam last winter. One night we arrived on an island looking for a
place to sleep, and trying to find a guesthouse listed in our
guidebook. After more than an hour of walking, we came to the site
where the guesthouse should have been -- and where an few broken 2x4s
now stood. It looked like there might have been a building there at
one time, but it was definitely gone now.

We were both real mad, but Maj pointed out something that made us
madder. "You know, everyone who reads this guidebook and comes here is
going to go through what we just went through. And that's probably
going to be, what, 10,000 people? Before next year's edition of this
book comes out? Doesn't that kind of suck, that nobody can learn from
our mistakes?"

The more we thought about it, the more we realized it was a real
problem. Travel guides are written and fact-checked by tens of people,
but tens of thousands or maybe hundreds of thousands of people depend
on that information. There are that many travellers going through any
one spot -- why not make it easier for them to share information?

There are, of course, a number of "travel forum" Web sites where
travellers can post notices and tips, but it can be really hard to
find any good information on these. Out of all the posts on some
travel bulletin board, how do you find out about the hotel or
restaurant where *you* want to go *tonight*? We needed another
solution.

I'd been using and contributing to Wikipedia (http://www.wikipedia.org/)
for a while. Wikipedia is an Open Source encyclopedia -- thousands of
users can contribute valuable information to make a real, readable
encyclopedia on a par with professionally-published ones. So we
started thinking: could we use this same technique to make travel
guides?

So, we just started a Web site called Wikitravel. The goal is to
create a free, complete, up-to-date and reliable world-wide travel
guide. Any user can add information about any place in the world; any
other user can correct or improve it. All the articles are free to
download, copy, email, print, distribute, put on other Web sites, or
even put in other travel guides; we use a Creative Commons
(http://www.creativecommons.org/) license to make that easy.

Anyways, if you're interested in travel, have experience, like to
write or check spelling or take pictures or whatever, feel free to
check it out. We're here:

      http://www.wikitravel.org/

Also, feel free to spread the URL around even if you're not
interested. The more people we get using the site, the better it will
be.

Thanks,

~Mr. Bad

-- 
X-Email:  mr.bad@pigdog.org
X-Jabber: MisterBad@pighaven.org 
X-Pigdog-Journal: http://www.pigdog.org/
X-Quote: "I think a man is as big as what makes him mad." -- Reno Smith




From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Thu Aug 14 15:00:22 2003
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Norton, Emperor of Spam?
In-Reply-To: <20030814181700.GA8513@mikamyla.com>
References: <20030814034634.GD30008@zgp.org>
	<20030814181700.GA8513@mikamyla.com>
Message-ID: <20030814220022.GP20255@zork.net>

begin  Dismissed  quotation:
> ITYM "Symantec"

	Little.  Yellow.  Different.

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Thu Aug 14 15:02:30 2003
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] For Those Who Travel
In-Reply-To: <87brusqa4k.fsf@unicorn.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <87brusqa4k.fsf@unicorn.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <20030814220230.GQ20255@zork.net>

begin  Uncle Bad  quotation:
>       http://www.wikitravel.org/

	Hi, asl.

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From jv at zork.net  Thu Aug 14 15:03:19 2003
From: jv at zork.net (Juggler Vain)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: Parse or punt: [!CrackMonkey!] [David Winning]
In-Reply-To: <20030814185402.GZ20458@linuxmafia.com>
References: <87ptj8rt2m.fsf@unicorn.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
	<20030814185402.GZ20458@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20030814220319.GC6441@zork.net>

The terrorists have already won; and (as Stuart Smalley reminds us) 
that's.... o.k...

... a rising tide, even a ripping terror-tide, lifts boyant objects.  

Regarding Mr. Bad's alarm:  

begin  Rick Moen quotation:
> Quoting Mister Bad (mr.bad@pigdog.org):
> > Crap! I'm totally in TROUBLE because of OVERACTIVE CRACKMONKEY 
> > GOOGLE JUICE. I had no clue what this was about...
> The Winning Mafia 0WNZ J00!

... at DM's discovery of:  

[http://www.crackmonkey.org/pipermail/crackmonkey/2001q3/021649.html]

... I offer to Mr. Winning that whatever exception he might take to text
keyed by a youthful Bad, the tragic events of nine-eleven have matured
the man.  No worse for the terror, all the better the Bad.  Let him live.

To Al Franken I confess to knowing of his "Liars" only what I've seen on
tv/internet; but re-present O'Reilly's short shrift to "Liars"s compound
argument as grounds for an entry in a future edition... 

... such that when some one publicly dismissively devalues a single
instance of some other's greater context, said other might help Al's
future sales: "!Ha, page eighty-three of 'Liars', in the section on
'spin'...  the second edition, the O'*Reilly* edition... O'Reilly of a
self-styled 'no-spin zone'".  Such as that. 

To Wm. O'Reilly I applaud his public assessment of cannabis as Not a
Problem.  But then, I publicly applaud ClearChannel's donation of space
for our "Ed" billboards (just as I denounce kqed for its solidarity with
NAB's opposition to micropower licensing)... 'cause I'm a patient, fair,
& balanced (though ruthless) radio-pirate.  Arrgh.  -jv

p.s... to Crackmonkey I announce:  

Friday Night before Halloween Night Is Crackmonkey Night at Kepler's.  

Don't tell X, but Al's coming to town... well, down the peninsula. 

Re-phrasing [http://www.ohthethingsiknow.com/]'s "tour":
Friday, October 24, 2003, 7:30 pm:  discussion and booksigning
Kepler's Books:  1010 El Camino Real, Menlo Park, California
http://www.keplers.com 

Kepler's sits v.close to (a drunkard's stumbling meander) from
Caltrain's Menlo Station; trains head back to Frisco at 21h24 & 23h02. 

More as I confirm with Kepler's & Caltrain, but this assurance to 
Poindexter Fortran:  I *will* "sweeten" the ride



From nick at zork.net  Thu Aug 14 15:07:11 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] ZAPOCLASM
Message-ID: <20030814220711.GR20255@zork.net>

So big electrical outages take out the whole NE, but Chicago seems to
have zap.  GNU.ORG is out, maaan!  Cleveland, Detroit, NYC... CANADIA
lost power!

I bet you somehow, backhoes are behind this.  Someone check the
backhoe futures market, see if there was a spike or something!

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From necco at relst8.net  Thu Aug 14 16:03:52 2003
From: necco at relst8.net (Loki Ambrodious von Esling)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] ZAPOCLASM
In-Reply-To: <20030814220711.GR20255@zork.net>
References: <20030814220711.GR20255@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20030814230352.GA25136@relst8.net>

On Thu, Aug 14, 2003 at 03:07:11PM -0700, Nick Moffitt wrote:
> So big electrical outages take out the whole NE, but Chicago seems to
> have zap.  GNU.ORG is out, maaan!  Cleveland, Detroit, NYC... CANADIA
> lost power!
> 
> I bet you somehow, backhoes are behind this.  Someone check the
> backhoe futures market, see if there was a spike or something!
> 

damn zer0cool, did a "/send spike"

-- 
 . \ ` ' / .
._` __^__ '_.  Loki Ambridous von Esling
   [()=()]     RELST8 - http://www.relst8.net
   /_____\  
  Justified


From inkblot at movealong.org  Thu Aug 14 16:27:22 2003
From: inkblot at movealong.org (The Archduke of Chicago and Subjugator of Michigan)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] ZAPOCLASM
In-Reply-To: <20030814230352.GA25136@relst8.net>
References: <20030814220711.GR20255@zork.net>
	<20030814230352.GA25136@relst8.net>
Message-ID: <20030814232722.GA23968@movealong.org>

Just now Loki Ambrodious von Esling made 15 LEDs in my apartment flash with this:
> On Thu, Aug 14, 2003 at 03:07:11PM -0700, Nick Moffitt wrote:
> > So big electrical outages take out the whole NE, but Chicago seems to
> > have zap.  GNU.ORG is out, maaan!  Cleveland, Detroit, NYC... CANADIA
> > lost power!
> > 
> > I bet you somehow, backhoes are behind this.  Someone check the
> > backhoe futures market, see if there was a spike or something!
> > 
> 
> damn zer0cool, did a "/send spike"

GODDAMNIT WHY CAN'T YOU DISAPPEAR WITH RHODE ISLAND BOB!

-- 
--< ((\))< >----< inkblot@movealong.org >----< http://www.movealong.org/ >--
pub  1024D/05A058E0 2002-03-07 Nate Riffe (06-Mar-2002) <inkblot@movealong.org>
     Key fingerprint = 0DAC F5CB D182 3165 D757  C466 CD42 12A8 05A0 58E0


From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Thu Aug 14 19:09:55 2003
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] ZAPOCLASM
In-Reply-To: <20030814220711.GR20255@zork.net>
References: <20030814220711.GR20255@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20030815020955.GA4894@callisto.jtan.com>

On Thu, Aug 14, 2003 at 03:07:11PM -0700, Nick Moffitt wrote:

> So big electrical outages take out the whole NE, but Chicago seems to
> have zap.

Not the "whole NE." 


-- 
Bob Bernstein   


From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Thu Aug 14 19:11:23 2003
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] ZAPOCLASM
In-Reply-To: <20030814232722.GA23968@movealong.org>
References: <20030814220711.GR20255@zork.net>
	<20030814230352.GA25136@relst8.net>
	<20030814232722.GA23968@movealong.org>
Message-ID: <20030815021123.GB4894@callisto.jtan.com>

On Thu, Aug 14, 2003 at 06:27:22PM -0500, The Archduke of Chicago and Subjugator of Michigan wrote:

> GODDAMNIT WHY CAN'T YOU DISAPPEAR WITH RHODE ISLAND BOB!

I love you too hon, but don't think for a minute that this is going to 
be a quick kiss 'n make up. It's gonna COST YA!


-- 
Bob Bernstein   


From thesubjugator at subjugation.org  Thu Aug 14 20:06:35 2003
From: thesubjugator at subjugation.org (Subjugator of Port Jefferson and Conqueror of Long Island)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: gnu/linux type of computer
In-Reply-To: <20030814131303.GA18762@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
References: <E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
	<20030801131633.GJ16321@tastytronic.net>
	<20030801134029.GA20109@oven.home.net>
	<20030801135222.GL16321@tastytronic.net>
	<200308011526.h71FQlr14051@mail0.rawbw.com>
	<20030801153042.GV20242@lug.org.uk>
	<200308011744.h71Hi3r68029@mail0.rawbw.com>
	<20030801180034.GQ16321@tastytronic.net>
	<20030814131303.GA18762@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
Message-ID: <1060916795.1168.581.camel@dante>

On Thu, 2003-08-14 at 09:13, Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS wrote:
> 
> We'll need that after we nuke a few of the old ones.

I see there's a little bit of Ernst Blofeld in everyone... even the CEO
of Brookyln.  And don't think we haven't heard about FreeGrandma, we
know what you're up to.




From mwmiller at columbus.rr.com  Thu Aug 14 21:54:33 2003
From: mwmiller at columbus.rr.com (Matthew W. Miller)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: gnu/linux type of computer
In-Reply-To: <20030814131303.GA18762@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
References: <E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
	<20030801131633.GJ16321@tastytronic.net>
	<20030801134029.GA20109@oven.home.net>
	<20030801135222.GL16321@tastytronic.net>
	<200308011526.h71FQlr14051@mail0.rawbw.com>
	<20030801153042.GV20242@lug.org.uk>
	<200308011744.h71Hi3r68029@mail0.rawbw.com>
	<20030801180034.GQ16321@tastytronic.net>
	<20030814131303.GA18762@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
Message-ID: <20030815045433.GB23931@columbus.rr.com>

On Thu, Aug 14, 2003 at 09:13:03AM -0400, Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS wrote:
                                                      ^^^^^^^^^
Oh, look at that, the people of Brooklyn were so miffed over the little
power failure that they demoted him from CEO to Secretary.

>[ nothing worth quoting, much less full-quoting and top-replying to ]
-- 
Matthew W. Miller <mwmiller@columbus.rr.com>


From nick at zork.net  Fri Aug 15 07:13:40 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	subscription notification]
Message-ID: <20030815141340.GV20255@zork.net>

Oh boy it's a fancy-pants canuck pigdog.  

----- Forwarded message from mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org -----

phukiteephuk <phukiteephuk@yahoo.ca> has been successfully subscribed
to CrackMonkey.



----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu  Fri Aug 15 05:31:15 2003
From: dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu (Don Saklad)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] A lie. BPL President Bernie Margolis.
Message-ID: <E19ndjf-0007ed-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>

                Boston Public Library President Bernie Margolis has
                responsibility for the lie about the collections of
                our Boston Public Library...


> The Library has no documents that correspond to your request for the
> "index/list of BPL procedures" or the
> "index/list of BPL directives".



From neale at woozle.org  Fri Aug 15 09:36:46 2003
From: neale at woozle.org (Neale Pickett)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Ladies and Gentlemen,
	Ryan Lackey has Quit the HavenCo
Message-ID: <w533cg2yj1d.fsf@woozle.org>

He even has a web page about it:
  http://havenco.venona.com/

Let's have a show of solidarity and *all* quit HavenCo:
  http://zork.net/~neale/iquit.php

                               ----------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 23:13:36 +0000
From: Ryan Lackey <ryan@venona.com>
To: neale@zork.net
Subject: "quitting havenco" page

You may wish to update the page since I *have* actually quit havenco
now. :)
-- 
Ryan Lackey [RL960-RIPE AS24812]   ryan@venona.com   +1 202 258 9251
OpenPGP DH 4096: B8B8 3D95 F940 9760 C64B   DE90 07AD BE07 D2E0 301F


From ruben at mrbrklyn.com  Fri Aug 15 16:03:22 2003
From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben I Safir)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Due Process
In-Reply-To: <20030814171342.GL15789@linuxmafia.com>;
	from rick@linuxmafia.com on Thu, Aug 14, 2003 at 13:13:42 -0400
References: <20030812175706.GT22221@zgp.org>
	<20030813212026.A7651@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814080120.GU20458@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030814085110.A18437@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814171342.GL15789@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20030815190322.C2810@www2.mrbrklyn.com>

So he was arrested and not charged under habeoas corpus in the states?  Sounds like
a serious breach of the constitutional protestions.  How did the courts react to this?

Ruben

On 2003.08.14 13:13 Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Ruben I Safir (ruben@mrbrklyn.com):
> 
> > Was he a US Citizen?
> 
> Is.  Maher Hawash _is_ a US citizen.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks
> http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey
> 
-- 
__________________________
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com

http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....

1-718-382-0585


From jv at zork.net  Fri Aug 15 16:07:19 2003
From: jv at zork.net (Juggler Vain)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: Piracy wants to be $39.99 (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] Norton,
	Emperor of Spam?)
In-Reply-To: <20030814034634.GD30008@zgp.org>
References: <20030814034634.GD30008@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <20030815230718.GB7432@zork.net>

begin  Don Marti quotation:
> So how come most of the proprietary software spam I get is for Norton
> products?  Do they have a multi-level marketing progrm or something?

?Does your spam look like: "8 Great Programs? in 1 for $39.99?"

""?How can we offer over twelve hundred dollars of brand name titles for
under forty dollars.  No boxes.  No manuals (spelled 'h-o-l-o').  But
these are Totally Official Disks..."

... I imagine this style to be a single-level scheme.  -jv... no holo



From NotResponsiblefortheBlackOut at mrbrklyn.com  Fri Aug 15 16:53:31 2003
From: NotResponsiblefortheBlackOut at mrbrklyn.com (NotResponsiblefortheBlackOut@mrbrklyn.com)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: gnu/linux type of computer
In-Reply-To: <1060916795.1168.581.camel@dante>;
	from thesubjugator@subjugation.org on Thu, Aug 14, 2003 at
	23:06:35 -0400
References: <E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
	<20030801131633.GJ16321@tastytronic.net>
	<20030801134029.GA20109@oven.home.net>
	<20030801135222.GL16321@tastytronic.net>
	<200308011526.h71FQlr14051@mail0.rawbw.com>
	<20030801153042.GV20242@lug.org.uk>
	<200308011744.h71Hi3r68029@mail0.rawbw.com>
	<20030801180034.GQ16321@tastytronic.net>
	<20030814131303.GA18762@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<1060916795.1168.581.camel@dante>
Message-ID: <20030815195331.A4476@www2.mrbrklyn.com>


Then your one step in fornt of me.  I have NO idea what I'm up to.


Ruben

On 2003.08.14 23:06 Subjugator of Port Jefferson and Conqueror of Long Island wrote:
> On Thu, 2003-08-14 at 09:13, Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS wrote:
> > 
> > We'll need that after we nuke a few of the old ones.
> 
> I see there's a little bit of Ernst Blofeld in everyone... even the CEO
> of Brookyln.  And don't think we haven't heard about FreeGrandma, we
> know what you're up to.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks
> http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey
> 
-- 
__________________________
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com

http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....

1-718-382-0585


From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Aug 15 19:03:49 2003
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Due Process
In-Reply-To: <20030815190322.C2810@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
References: <20030812175706.GT22221@zgp.org>
	<20030813212026.A7651@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814080120.GU20458@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030814085110.A18437@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814171342.GL15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030815190322.C2810@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
Message-ID: <20030816020348.GX15789@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Ruben I Safir (ruben@mrbrklyn.com):

> So he was arrested and not charged under habeoas corpus in the states? 

The excuse at the time he was picked up in the parking lot of the Intel
plant where he worked (in Oregon) was that he was being held --
"detained" but not, in theory, arrested -- as a material witness to (at
that time) unspecified crimes by unspecified parties.  This was persuant
to a sealed warrant from the DoJ with no explanation of any sort.  As
the months dragged on without him being charged, released, tried, etc.,
it became apparent that this was a legal fiction equating to
extrajudicial custody without charge or trial.  

There was no showing that Hawash was a _flight risk_ as a "witness" to
something (unspecified or not).  No evidence was shown to anyone -- at
least not that anyone was willing to discuss in public.  He was simply
put in solitary confinement and held incommunicado.

As time passed without filing of charges or allowing him to even consult
an attorney or see his family, civil libertarians of course called foul
-- that this is impermissible.  Well, it is.  Period.

Even if the outcome wasn't tainted -- which it is -- it would be
blatantly impermissible on its merits.

People like the NY Post's Daniel Pipes are -now- trying to tell us that
Mr. Hawash's plea-bargain magically makes all of that OK.  Well, no,
sorry, that isn't the case, either.


The Feds _finally_, in response to public pressure, filed several
criminal charges.  After five months, Hawash plea-bargained away several
of those charges that would have (if convicted) put him away for life to
a accept a single charge that carries a 7-10 year prison term. 

But the problem is that due process had been poisoned:

I hope that, if I were suddenly seized at gunpoint and held in prison
for months without explanation, I'd have the courage to assert my legal
rights nonetheless, and _not_ sign a plea-bargain agreement in hopes of 
seeing my family again.   But the reason we have due-process guidelines 
in the first place is that it's coercive:   "Disappearing" someone and 
holding him in solitary without charge _does_ arguably help coerce
a guilty man into confessing -- but it also has that effect on the
innocent.

> Sounds like a serious breach of the constitutional protestions.  How
> did the courts react to this?

I'm not very familiar with the details of legal actions taken during
that period.

At some point, a Federal grand jury got involved -- with, again, secret
proceedings.  A "detention order" was eventually signed (still no
charges, at that point) by U.S. District Judge Robert E. Jones in a secret
hearing in April.  Prior to Jones's order, the Feds had refused to even
confirm or deny that they'd had anything to do with Hawash's
disappearance.  His family and co-workers couldn't tell for certain if,
for example, he'd been kidnapped by well-armed criminals masquerading as
Feds:  Nobody was answering their basic questions about him.

Jones refused to address the question of whether Hawash was considered a
flight risk -- as _required_ by the material witness statute under which
Hawash was supposedly "detained".  He said merely:  "I conclude by
clear and convincing evidence that the material witness must be
detained, but not indefinitely."  And, with that, Jones also enacted a
gag order.

The same judge accepted his plea bargain on August 7, when Hawash finally
caved in and signed.  He could have been factually guilty.  We may never
know:  Because of the plea bargain, the government is no longer required
to present evidence, and Hawash has waived his right to dispute it.
Morever, he's required to by his plea bargain to "fully cooperate" in
prosecutions of six other people, which means he has to stick to the
story specified in the plea bargain, or risk getting a bunch more years
appended to his sentence.

Irrespective of the facts of his case -- which now will never be tried
-- we _do_ know is that the rule of law was substantively thrown out the
window by the actions that resulted in his plea bargain.

-- 
Cheers,                    I've been suffering death by PowerPoint, recently.
Rick Moen                                                     -- Huw Davies
rick@linuxmafia.com  


From jason at sopko.net  Fri Aug 15 19:45:06 2003
From: jason at sopko.net (Jason Sopko)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Due Process
In-Reply-To: <20030816020348.GX15789@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20030812175706.GT22221@zgp.org>	<20030813212026.A7651@www2.mrbrklyn.com>	<20030814080120.GU20458@linuxmafia.com>	<20030814085110.A18437@www2.mrbrklyn.com>	<20030814171342.GL15789@linuxmafia.com>	<20030815190322.C2810@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816020348.GX15789@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <3F3D9AB2.7030804@sopko.net>

Rick Moen wrote:
> Irrespective of the facts of his case -- which now will never be tried
> -- we _do_ know is that the rule of law was substantively thrown out the
> window by the actions that resulted in his plea bargain.

Why did he plea bargain and not go to trial? I'm also interested in how 
every 'progressive' seems to know so much more about the details of the 
sealed evidence than the CIA does. I feel bad for the guy, but why was 
the government questioning and detaining him in the first place? I'd 
like to think that they had some sort of reason and it wasn't an act of 
pure randomness.

///Jason





From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Aug 15 20:02:03 2003
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Due Process
In-Reply-To: <3F3D9AB2.7030804@sopko.net>
References: <20030812175706.GT22221@zgp.org>
	<20030813212026.A7651@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814080120.GU20458@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030814085110.A18437@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814171342.GL15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030815190322.C2810@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816020348.GX15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<3F3D9AB2.7030804@sopko.net>
Message-ID: <20030816030203.GC3405@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Jason Sopko (jason@sopko.net):

> Why did he plea bargain and not go to trial?

You're asking me because I own a SOOPER S3KR1T brain-reading device
that's sadly unavailable in your subdivision?

I suspect that the above is the usual sort of dumb-ass attempt at a
rhetorical question that I have come to expect in these discussions.  
However, rhetorical answers'r'us:

1.  Could be that he's factually guilty and is copping a plea.
2.  Could be that being leaned on in a blatantly unconstitutional 
    manner helped convince him.
3.  Other possibilities should not be excluded.

...but it seems that we'll basically now never really know.

Of course, you could have saved a lot of time by finding that quite
clearly stated in the prior posting.  

Not to mention the entirely separate and -=vastly more important=- point
about subversion of due process.  Which you are of course ignoring.




From jason at sopko.net  Fri Aug 15 20:21:38 2003
From: jason at sopko.net (Jason Sopko)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Due Process
In-Reply-To: <20030816030203.GC3405@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20030812175706.GT22221@zgp.org>	<20030813212026.A7651@www2.mrbrklyn.com>	<20030814080120.GU20458@linuxmafia.com>	<20030814085110.A18437@www2.mrbrklyn.com>	<20030814171342.GL15789@linuxmafia.com>	<20030815190322.C2810@www2.mrbrklyn.com>	<20030816020348.GX15789@linuxmafia.com>	<3F3D9AB2.7030804@sopko.net>
	<20030816030203.GC3405@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <3F3DA342.7000806@sopko.net>

Rick Moen wrote:
> Not to mention the entirely separate and -=vastly more important=- point
> about subversion of due process.  Which you are of course ignoring.

I agree with you, our government is on a witch hunt and they're not 
going home without finding some witches. Some people would sacrifice our 
nation's security, and potentially millions of lives, for the civil 
liberties of a few people. Our government isn't going to do that, 
though. People piss all over the laws and sometimes even wipe their ass 
with them. It happens on both sides of the political spectrum, and it's 
a crying shame. The founding fathers are most likely rolling in their 
graves.

///Jason



From ruben at mrbrklyn.com  Fri Aug 15 20:22:46 2003
From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (ruben@mrbrklyn.com)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] OK to Nuke Redmond
In-Reply-To: <20030816020348.GX15789@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20030812175706.GT22221@zgp.org>
	<20030813212026.A7651@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814080120.GU20458@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030814085110.A18437@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814171342.GL15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030815190322.C2810@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816020348.GX15789@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20030816032246.GA6677@www2.mrbrklyn.com>

> 
> The excuse at the time he was picked up in the parking lot of the Intel
> plant where he worked (in Oregon) was that he was being held --
> "detained" but not, in theory, arrested -- as a material witness to (at
> that time) unspecified crimes by unspecified parties.  This was persuant
> to a sealed warrant from the DoJ with no explanation of any sort.  As
> the months dragged on without him being charged, released, tried, etc.,


I'm all fine with this until this point.  The holding of an American
Citizen for more than 48 hours without charging the defendent is not
acceptable.  If the nature of the arrest is of a Military concern, then
the party should be charged under the UMCJ, and/or tried as a traitor
and executed if convicted.

I'm not happy with this whole blurring of the line between military
or national security activities and civilian justice, and I'm sick of 
acts of Terrorism being treated as if they are crimes, when they are acts
of war.

The inevitable result of treating terrorists and other individuals who
have taken violent actions against the nation as 'criminals' is the reduction
of our protections under civil law.  These are all acts of war.  These people
need to be treated as prisionors of war and citizens as traitors.

Unlike many, I don't have an inherent fear of the judgement or motivations
of the CIA, military or of the government.  I fear greatly individual abuses,
and abuses by individuals when there is not accountability and due process.
I worry more about the length of time that these seal cases are sealed and the
accountability of the individuals in these cases.  I am not that worried about
them being sealed in of itself.  There is most often good reasons for things to
be sealed.

Oliver North, for example, worried me greatly.  I would have wanted Reagan
Impeached for Iran/Contra, which was, IMO, the single worse case of abuse
by the executive branch in government in American History.

Daniel Pipes is not in any way an expert on Civil Rights or the Law.  I
doubt he would ever make that claim.  I could be wrong, but I don't think
he is even a lawyer.  Damiel Pipe's expertese is on radical Islamic 
Fundementalism.  Like any other commentator or analyst, sometimes I agree
with him, sometimes I don't, and sometimes, I agree a little with him, or I
disagree with him a little.

One thing I do know, from reading him over the last few years, long prior to
the act of war on the US on September 11th, 2001, is that he is
correct about the threats of radical Islamic groups, and their threat to my
safety, and the threat the pose to Democratic Society.  

I believe that 'fighting' a war on terorism without a more rigorous prosecution
of the war in the Middle East only serves to erode American Civil Rights.  I'm
fairly certain that I'm in the minority on this list in ths second matter, but
would be in agreement with most on the list in regards to protecting our
individual rights through due process.  In fact, the protection of individual
liberties is really worrying me to the degree it happens...and it is
happening more frequently without a stratergy to actually win the real war.

I do not want to go through a whole Mcarthy type of scare before we wake up
to the abuses.

AND 

I do not want NYC to be nuked before we realize how serious this problem
is and finally put an end to the threats.

	Redmond is OK if the Syrians want to Nuke it, but not Brooklyn.


Ruben








-- 
__________________________
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com

http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....

1-718-382-0585


From inkblot at movealong.org  Fri Aug 15 21:07:28 2003
From: inkblot at movealong.org (Nate Riffe)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] OK to Nuke Redmond
In-Reply-To: <20030816032246.GA6677@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
References: <20030812175706.GT22221@zgp.org>
	<20030813212026.A7651@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814080120.GU20458@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030814085110.A18437@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814171342.GL15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030815190322.C2810@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816020348.GX15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030816032246.GA6677@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
Message-ID: <20030816040728.GA29212@movealong.org>

Just now The@movealong.org made 15 LEDs in my apartment flash with this:
> [blah blah blah]
> 
> Ruben

Ruben, please explain, what is all this about:

 From: The@movealong.org, Blackout@movealong.org, was@movealong.org,
     NOT@movealong.org, my@movealong.org,
     "fault:CEO.of.Brooklyn:ruben"@mrbrklyn.com

-- 
--< ((\))< >----< inkblot@movealong.org >----< http://www.movealong.org/ >--
pub  1024D/05A058E0 2002-03-07 Nate Riffe (06-Mar-2002) <inkblot@movealong.org>
     Key fingerprint = 0DAC F5CB D182 3165 D757  C466 CD42 12A8 05A0 58E0


From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Aug 15 23:31:37 2003
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] OK to Nuke Redmond
In-Reply-To: <20030816032246.GA6677@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
References: <20030812175706.GT22221@zgp.org>
	<20030813212026.A7651@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814080120.GU20458@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030814085110.A18437@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814171342.GL15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030815190322.C2810@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816020348.GX15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030816032246.GA6677@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
Message-ID: <20030816063137.GY15789@linuxmafia.com>

Ruben, thanks for your comments.

Quoting The Blackout was NOT my fault (The Blackout was NOT my fault):

> I'm all fine with this until this point.  The holding of an American
> Citizen for more than 48 hours without charging the defendent is not
> acceptable.  

You know, I've just now corrected my recollection on this point:  I
had mistakenly thought the usual rule was 72 hours, but you're right.
In at least several US jurisdictions I've checked, any person detained
without an arrest warrant is entitled to appear within 48 hours before a
magistrate for a determination of probable cause.

The loophole in this case was:  They held him under a "material witness"
statute designed specifically (and only) to hold witnesses who are
nervous or otherwise likely to flee before giving testimony.  

Hawash was the main source of income for his wife and three small
children, had longstanding ties to his community, and his wife was born
in the state.  By all required measures, his flight risk would have been
adjudged just about zero.  However, the Feds (and also Judge Jones, a
month later, to his great discredit) completely disregarded the law on
that point:  They weren't worrying about flight risk.  They just wanted
a tool for doing an end-run around habeas corpus, to let them detain a
citizen indefinitely without judicial review.

By the way, some US newspapers have identified about dozens of _other_ 
US citizens being, similarly, held indefinitely without charge under
material witness laws.

> If the nature of the arrest is of a Military concern, then
> the party should be charged under the UMCJ, and/or tried as a traitor
> and executed if convicted.

UMCJ certainly applies to sworn military personnel, but declaring that
civilians should be tried under military law just because somebody in
the Executive Branch thinks there's a "military concern" is... strange,
at a minimum.  Problem:  UMCJ trials have no Fifth Amendment rights for
the accused, e.g., no grand jury indictment for capital crimes -- and no 
Sixth Amendment right to a jury at all (let alone of one's peers).
Throw away the right to juries, and you've lost the most fundamental
rights in criminal law, period.

And saying "terrorists" need something different begs the question:
Isn't the entire point of the trial to _determine_ guilt?  Or have we
started declaring people guilty in advance?

> Daniel Pipes is not in any way an expert on Civil Rights or the Law.

Well, if he plans on living in my country, maybe he should learn its
fundamental principles of law.  ;->

Ruben, when heavily armed G-men grab a software engineer from Intel
Corporation's employee parking lot at 7AM and make him completely
disappear for months, with no explanation or even any admission that
they nabbed him, something is very deeply wrong -- regardless of whether
some months later he's eventually charged with something and
plea-bargains, and regardless even of whether you assume the guy's
factually guilty.  It's just wrong.  Mr. Pipes apparently can't see that, 
and I'm sorry for him. 



From ruben at mrbrklyn.com  Sat Aug 16 09:37:27 2003
From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (CEO of Brooklyn - Provider of Power to the NYC Region)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] OK to Nuke Redmond
In-Reply-To: <20030816063137.GY15789@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20030812175706.GT22221@zgp.org>
	<20030813212026.A7651@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814080120.GU20458@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030814085110.A18437@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814171342.GL15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030815190322.C2810@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816020348.GX15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030816032246.GA6677@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816063137.GY15789@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20030816163727.GA15039@www2.mrbrklyn.com>

Dear Rick:  As usual, I appreciate you calm and dispassionate comments which
are well researched and based on solid lines of thinking and rational:

> 
> The loophole in this case was:  They held him under a "material witness"
> statute designed specifically (and only) to hold witnesses who are
> nervous or otherwise likely to flee before giving testimony.  
> 

This is a serious problem.  There are no loopholes to haebeous corpus, or
it is worthless.  There is no need, really to paint any other picture
about the status of his wife's income, (which she happens to be well set),
or his likelihood to take flight.  Habeous Corpus is an absolute protection
of all American Citizens.  In addition, if he was indeed helping a Taliban
or a Hamas cell in the US, he would take flight regardless of his wife,
and this has happened repeatedly in these cases.  Often they take the
children to the Middle East and leave the American wife behind.  These are
individuals motivated by ideology and religious devotion, and put these motives
ahead of their love of wife and family.  So even under these circumstances, 
these arguements are without baring on the case.  Of course, I'm talking of
the general case and I have no evidence to judge this man's individual motivation.

I do not have the evidence before me to know the risks.  I do know
habeous corpus for a US citizen is 48 -   PERIOD.


> 
> By the way, some US newspapers have identified about dozens of _other_ 
> US citizens being, similarly, held indefinitely without charge under
> material witness laws.
> 

I live 8 blocks from the Mosque where the Twin Tower bombing
was organized, and right near what is probibly the largest Arab
community in the US.  There is no fear or secret police running
around the community.  People are not living in fear.  I will not
be baited by these possible and probibly  abuses into a gross mistatement 
about the freedom and security that we live here in the US, even in the 
era of the Post mass-slaughter of civilians by Muslim Extreamnists 
in the massive attack on the World Trade Center and NYC after 
September 11th, 2001.

> 
> UMCJ certainly applies to sworn military personnel, but declaring that
> civilians should be tried under military law just because somebody in
> the Executive Branch thinks there's a "military concern" is... strange,
> at a minimum.  

The UCMJ involves the treatment of prisoiners of war as well as other
military conditions.  Activities which involve the planning of or execution
of an act of war on the people of the United States, IMO, should be procesuted
under the UCMJ.

While the UCMJ does indeed have limitations on certain individual rights, it
is not a free for all.  It is a system of REAL due process and it is overseen 
by the civilian courts.  It is a far better system than creating a mirror with
restrictions on the Bill of Rights in the civilian system.  Acts of War are
not criminal activities, and I have zero problem in 'Throw away the right to 
juries, and you've lost the most fundamental rights in criminal law, period.'
in matters of Military activities against the People.

A terrorist act is not a crime.  Rape is a crime.  Killing 3000 people and turning
there remains into ashes, while destroying all of lower Manahattan and attacking
the 24 million people who live in the New York City Metro Area with an expressed
political motive is an act of war.  And, If I recall from my Army experience,
Military trials do have a form of juries in most cases.  But I don't remember the
details.



> And saying "terrorists" need something different begs the question:
> Isn't the entire point of the trial to _determine_ guilt?  Or have we
> started declaring people guilty in advance?

Terrorism is not a crime.  We do not determine the guilt of soldiers
who take up arms against us.  We summarly execute them, imprission them
under the Geneva Convention, and etc.  And this is why I'm so agressive
about pursuit of war in regards to this matter.  Military convensions
are very limiting on both the civil rights of our citizens and in our ability
to prosecute war.  It is a messy entanglement.  It does no good to hunt down 
someone like Hawasi from and for Military intellegence in some sort of defensive 
action while continue to allow Syria, Iran, and other despot nations to continue
to export their radical ideologies of genocide and war.

BTW - It is established that this man is a US citizen and if so, the
Military is acusing him of being a traitor.  And he should be tried
for that and executed if found guilty.  And if the military intelligence
doesn't permit this because of the leads and covert operations being tracted,
etc, then they should pursue stripping him of his citizenship, slap a gag order 
on him and use the other legal tools at their disposal to pursue a rational
balence between civilian and military administration.  But Habeous Corpus
must be respected.

> 
> Well, if he plans on living in my country, maybe he should learn its
> fundamental principles of law.  ;->
> 
> Ruben, when heavily armed G-men grab a software engineer from Intel
> Corporation's employee parking lot at 7AM and make him completely
> disappear for months, with no explanation or even any admission that
> they nabbed him, something is very deeply wrong -- regardless of whether
> some months later he's eventually charged with something and
> plea-bargains, and regardless even of whether you assume the guy's
> factually guilty.  It's just wrong.  Mr. Pipes apparently can't see that, 
> and I'm sorry for him. 
> 

My heart bleeds.  When I wake up at 8:41 in the morning to the inciderary
smell of human flesh as 3000 of my fellow citizens are killed in an 
act of war which destroys a civilian complex larger than most towns and
'cities' in the country, and live through the trauma of having the fabric
of my city, a city of peace, commerce and freedom, ripped to shreads, tossing
it into nearly 2 years of economic depression, I find this oversite by Pipes
a mild irritant, and the abuses by the Department of Justice a serious matter,
but a correctable and minor one.

Pipes correctly identified to Congress the coming attack on Manhattan and the
World Trade Center specifically, more than 2 years before the first bombing,
and then exposed the entire rise of the AlQuada and Bin Laden, and the links
of the Taliban to members of the Saudi Royal Family, the PLO, and Iran.

He named names, and specific details.

I don't read his commentaries for a civil rights report.  For that I read Don
Marti :).

Ruben

-- 
__________________________
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com

http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....

1-718-382-0585


From jeremym at loonix.org  Sat Aug 16 09:57:03 2003
From: jeremym at loonix.org (Jeremy McLeod)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Due Process
In-Reply-To: <3F3DA342.7000806@sopko.net>
References: <20030812175706.GT22221@zgp.org>
	<20030813212026.A7651@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814080120.GU20458@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030814085110.A18437@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814171342.GL15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030815190322.C2810@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816020348.GX15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<3F3D9AB2.7030804@sopko.net> <20030816030203.GC3405@linuxmafia.com>
	<3F3DA342.7000806@sopko.net>
Message-ID: <20030816165703.GT29299@pug.chroot.net>

On Fri Aug 15, 2003 at 11:21:38PM -0400, Jason Sopko wrote:
> liberties of a few people.

s/a few people/everyone/

> The founding fathers are most likely rolling in their 
> graves.

O yes.

-- 
Jeremy McLeod
jeremym@loonix.org


From rick at linuxmafia.com  Sat Aug 16 13:00:03 2003
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] OK to Nuke Redmond
In-Reply-To: <20030816163727.GA15039@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
References: <20030812175706.GT22221@zgp.org>
	<20030813212026.A7651@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814080120.GU20458@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030814085110.A18437@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814171342.GL15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030815190322.C2810@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816020348.GX15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030816032246.GA6677@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816063137.GY15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030816163727.GA15039@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
Message-ID: <20030816200002.GZ15789@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting CEO of Brooklyn - Provider of Power to the NYC Region (ruben@mrbrklyn.com):

> Dear Rick:  As usual, I appreciate you calm and dispassionate comments
> which are well researched and based on solid lines of thinking and
> rational.

Thank you.

> In addition, if he was indeed helping a Taliban or a Hamas cell in the
> US, he would take flight regardless of his wife, and this has happened
> repeatedly in these cases.  

That is possible.  However, the point is that there was no hearing and
no judicial determination about flight risk.  That is why I say the use
of the material witness statute was a charade:  It was used in that
matter solely to evade the due process requirements of detention
generally.

> > By the way, some US newspapers have identified about dozens of
> > _other_ US citizens being, similarly, held indefinitely without
> > charge under material witness laws.
> 
> I live 8 blocks from the Mosque where the Twin Tower bombing was
> organized, and right near what is probibly the largest Arab community
> in the US.  There is no fear or secret police running around the
> community.

I acknowledge this.  However, it's an undeniable fact that the current
administration is holding dozens of US citizens, nabbed right off the
streets of our country, imprisoned without charge or trial and without
public acknowledgement, in such a fashion that newspaper chains need to 
do detective work to even determine who has been "disappeared" in that
fashion.

You quoted Daniel Pipes as chastising those who sent up red flags over
the "disappearing" of Maher Hawash, on grounds that Hawash's bargaining
to a single charge under unconstitutional pressure somehow made that
treatment OK.  My points were (1) no, it didn't, and (2) the same thing
is still going on with dozens of other US citizens.

Now, I'm not saying this turns us into 1980 Argentina under the
generals, where about 30,000 people were "disappeared" without charge
and are gradually turning up in mass graves.  What I'm saying is simply
that it's wrong, despite plea bargains and despite Daniel Pipes
articles.

> The UCMJ involves the treatment of prisoiners of war as well as other
> military conditions.

Yes, but it's written to be applied to soldiers on _our_ side, not
enemies.  I.e., it regulates treatment of prisoners by our military
command.

There's a key distinction I'd like to make, here:  When an infantryman
comes across an enemy soldier during a battle, our guy doesn't cite the
other guy under UCMJ terms for subsequent court martial.  Depending on
orders and battlefield conditions, our guy either kills the other guy or
takes him prisoner (to be held per international treaties on such
things).  

The enemy doesn't _rate_ UCMJ.  He's killed or taken as prisoner of war.
_Our_ guys who've enlisted under military discipline (and therefore
agreed to limitation of their Constitutional rights for reasons of
military operations) get UCMJ.

> While the UCMJ does indeed have limitations on certain individual rights, it
> is not a free for all.

I respect UCMJ -- for the purpose it was written for.  But what you're
proposing is substituting it for citizens' constitutional rights simply
because they've been accused of "terrorism".  Sorry, no, that doesn't
fly.

> And, If I recall from my Army experience, Military trials do have a
> form of juries in most cases.  But I don't remember the details.

They do not have "juries" in the sense understood in civilian law. 
The convening authority has full discretion to empanel whatever members
of the court he sees fit.  Ordinarily, those would be senior officers:
The convening authority can at its option also include enlisted men, and
the accused will often request this.

The point, however, is the Sixth Amendment right to jury trial is that
of a representative jury of one's peers -- from the community of fellow 
citizens.  A military prosecutor's pick of a set of soldiers is _not_ a
jury of a US civilian citizen's peers.

> Terrorism is not a crime.  We do not determine the guilt of soldiers
> who take up arms against us.

But determining that they _are_ enemy soldiers doesn't require a court
determination:  We know in real time that they're enemy soldiers by
observing the act of their shooting at our guys during a military
engagement.  Thereupon, we (referring to soldiers under orders) shoot
back.  This doesn't require even UCMJ, just good eyesight, clear rules
of engagement from command authority, and a functional trigger finger.

What you're talking about is very different:  You're talking about
grabbing a citizen off the street, who is -=not=- at that time caught
unmistakeably in the act of warfare, and saying "We're charging you with a
wrongful act, but it's an act so extremely wrongful that we're not going
to permit you a citizen's regular Constitutional rights to defend
himself against them, and we don't care whether you say we're mistaken
and have the wrong guy."

Sorry, Ruben, that's wrong.

-- 
Cheers,               "That article and its poster have been cancelled." 
Rick Moen                   -- David B. O'Donnel, sysadmin for America Online
rick@linuxmafia.com


From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu  Sat Aug 16 13:35:35 2003
From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian Danger Hicks)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] OK to Nuke Redmond
In-Reply-To: <20030816163727.GA15039@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
References: <20030812175706.GT22221@zgp.org>
	<20030813212026.A7651@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814080120.GU20458@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030814085110.A18437@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814171342.GL15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030815190322.C2810@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816020348.GX15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030816032246.GA6677@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816063137.GY15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030816163727.GA15039@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
Message-ID: <20030816203535.GB23046@8ball.wox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

commence  CEO of Brooklyn - Provider of Power to the NYC Region  quotation:
> Dear Rick:  As usual, I appreciate you calm and dispassionate comments which
> are well researched and based on solid lines of thinking and rational:

Yeah Rick, what are you doing on CrackMonkey anyway?  Haven't you read
the list description?

- -- 
Brian Hicks               <mailto:hick0142@tc.umn.edu>
   <http://eight.dhs.org> <ham:KC0OIH> <PGP:0xADDD1F16>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE/PpWUjLHcIq3dHxYRAvLjAKDs/Lit3iwpdpFC8QtlR+rONPewhACfR9Xv
TYDtG0eZBPuHifMfdUpdlhQ=
=8s1l
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From ruben at mrbrklyn.com  Sat Aug 16 14:06:13 2003
From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (CEO of Brooklyn - Provider of Power to the NYC Region)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:42 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] OK to Nuke Redmond
In-Reply-To: <20030816200002.GZ15789@linuxmafia.com>;
	from rick@linuxmafia.com on Sat, Aug 16, 2003 at 16:00:03 -0400
References: <20030813212026.A7651@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814080120.GU20458@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030814085110.A18437@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814171342.GL15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030815190322.C2810@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816020348.GX15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030816032246.GA6677@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816063137.GY15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030816163727.GA15039@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816200002.GZ15789@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20030816170613.E32354@www2.mrbrklyn.com>

 > I acknowledge this. However, it's an undeniable fact that the current
> administration is holding dozens of US citizens, nabbed right off the
> streets of our country, imprisoned without charge or trial and without
> public acknowledgement, in such a fashion that newspaper chains need
to > do detective work to even determine who has been "disappeared" in
that > fashion.

We are in agreement on this. The government absolutely needs to be
responsible for accountability in these activities. When the CIA deals
with internal citizens, they must readjuct their proceedures
accordingly.

> > You quoted Daniel Pipes as chastising those who sent up red flags
over > the "disappearing" of Maher Hawash, on grounds that Hawash's
bargaining > to a single charge under unconstitutional pressure somehow
made that > treatment OK. My points were (1) no, it didn't, and (2) the
same thing > is still going on with dozens of other US citizens. >

It may have seemed that this was my motivation but this was not why I
quoted him. I posted his message because I had just read it prior to
Don's post, and I wished to stimulate a conversation such as we've had,
and to learn more about the case, hopefuly in a balenced way with the
least amount of hysterics (such as it may be in crackmonkey :)).


> Now, I'm not saying this turns us into 1980 Argentina under the >
generals, where about 30,000 people were "disappeared" without charge >
and are gradually turning up in mass graves. What I'm saying is simply >
that it's wrong, despite plea bargains and despite Daniel Pipes >
articles. >

However, when I was in Bourdeux France at LSM I had French people, some
of them instructing on FS security to large audiences, tell me just
this, that we are sweeping the arabs off the streets in New York and
throwing them into our 'Dungeons'.

Further, I had a rather rigorous conversation with RMS about these
matters in my livingroom a few weeks ago. I will not just stand by and
have people paint our Government and our Society into some hell bent
hysterical fascist mob in order to vent their own agenda's. In fact, I
find this harder to stomache than the governments illegal activities in
regard to these cases of judicial abuse. The government is over reacting
because the threat is real and because we've lived through a very
painful chapter in our history, which seems like it was just yesterday.
This doesn't justify the governments suspenssion of Habeous Corpus, and
this must be fought.


> > The UCMJ involves the treatment of prisoiners of war as well as
other > > military conditions. > > Yes, but it's written to be applied
to soldiers on _our_ side, not > enemies. I.e., it regulates treatment
of prisoners by our military > command.

The UMCJ actually applies to all code of conduct with regard to military
activities, including the treatement of prisoiners, and the rights of
prisionors. Prisioners can and have brought cased to Military tribunals
under UMCJ. Clearly it is most concerned with every asepct of conduct of
our soldiers and saliors. But it is not strictly limited to that.
Prisoiners, for exap\mple, have the right not to shot when they
surrender. And prisoners have started prosecution under UMCJ against
MP's and Marines.


> 
> There's a key distinction I'd like to make, here: When an infantryman 
> comes across an enemy soldier during a battle, our guy doesn't cite the 
> other guy under UCMJ terms for subsequent court martial. Depending on 
> orders and battlefield conditions, our guy either kills the other guy or 
> takes him prisoner (to be held perinternational treaties on such 
> things).

This is where the problem lies. These obvious war conditions are less
clear when dealing with Spies, Terrorists, and other combatants in
military conflict. Then we have a huge and troubling condition of a
clash between Military need and law and civilian laws and rights.


This was true when Lincoln suspended Habeous Corpus in the Civil War,
with Washington's siezure of goods and serivces during the revolutionary
was, and persecution of Loyalist sympathizers, and continued with Cold
War spy rings, on until today.

The problem here is that we have no end game for this war. What is the
goal of this war? If it is not to reshape our enemy states and to
reorganizations those societies into Democractic Civil societies, then
we're, with out a doubt, going to see an increased number of these
abuses of power and New York will be nuked ANYWAY. There is no way that
we can stop every major attack with just counter intelligence....even
with an infinete amount of abuses to our civil rights.


> The point, however, is the Sixth Amendment right to jury trial is that
> of a representative jury of one's peers -- from the community of fellow 
> citizens. A military prosecutor's pick of a set of soldiers is _not_ a 
> jury of a US civilian citizen's peers.



Yes - but the Constitution has a loophole for military conditions. One
the the UMCJ and the other is the traitor clause.

And this is prior to any discussion of common law expression of the
Constitution. The ultimate responsibility for the execution of these
rights in granted to the civillian courts and the Congress.

In order to hold him more than 48 hours, they would have to strip him of
citizenship, or to have tried him as a traitor, or declared him a
hostile foriegn agent. As you pointed out: None of this was done. And it
is clearly an abuse of civil rights without a declaration of Marshal
Law.


We can not have US Citizens just picked up and held without the
protections of Habeous Corpus. (I think we are in complete agreement).
If the Military has a case to make, it needs to make it in the courts.
And these courts can be sealed as needed. But the oversite must remain
intact, especially in light of the nature of 'War on Terrorism'.

Furthermore, we need to take serious the national building and military
agenda of the nation with regard to the Middle East, especially Saudi
Arabia, Iran, Yemen and Syria (in addition to our engagement in
Afghanstan and Iraq).


All of these nations have either major elements of their societies of
the governments themselves which have openly declared war on the US, and
the West in general. They're not kidding. They are not going to stop,
and we can not ignor them any longer.


> 
> But determining that they _are_ enemy soldiers doesn't require a court 
> determination: We know in real time that they're enemy soldiersby 
> observing the act of their shooting at our guys during a military 
> engagement.

Actually, this is only true in an open combat condition, which is not
the only condition in warfare combat. We bombed Hamburg until the city
was largely sufficated from the lack of oxegen on the ground in WWII.
Certainly the civilians on the ground didn't 'seem' like soldiers. But
they were treated as such and rightfully so.

Warfare in the modern age is not the midevil game of capture the flag.
It pits the entire fabric of one society against another. Once it was
determined that the military objective of the defeat of Germany could
best be accomplished by the utter destruction of Hamburg, it was done.

In addition, spy networks and civilian resistence is continually a
problem in modern war. These are not combat soilders in the field.

And the same is true about 'Terrorists'. These aren't criminals. These
are agents of foriegn organizations which are planning the destruction
of our civilization and our society through the use of violence and
force.

That, is the definition, of an act of war.


> What you're talking about is very different: You're talking about 
> grabbing a citizen off the street, who is -=not=- at that time caught 
> unmistakeably in the act of warfare, and saying "We're charging you with a 
> wrongful act, but it's an act so extremely wrongful that we're not going 
> to permit you a citizen's regular Constitutional rights to defend 
> himself against them, and we don't care whether you say we're mistaken
> and have the wrong guy." 
> 
> Sorry, Ruben, that's wrong. 
>


I agree with you, to the point that I do. I have no idea what he was
caught doing, or not caught doing. Unfortunately this is not a perfect
world, and his right to habeous corpus must be respected, as well as his
due process. Even war prisioners have the right to due process. We will
not know for several years the real circumstance behind the governments
motivation, or the evidence against him. The government clearly violated
his rights according to the facts that have been presented.

But for the record, I don't think it would have been even remotely
likely that he would sign a confession or agree to co-operate with the
government in cases against other individuals if he didn't have some
inside knowledge of the activities that the government was following up.
This was an individual of substance with a firm streak prinicple. This
guy is probibly no more or less guilty than the Rosenbergs. Even still,
this is not an excuse for suspending Habeous Corpus. This man, traitor
or not, is a US citizen and desired the full weight of the Constitution
to protect him and all of us from government abuse.


Ruben

-- 
__________________________ 
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________ 
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS
http://fairuse.nylxs.com

http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy
Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and
articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html -
See the New Downtown Brooklyn....

1-718-382-0585 


From apost at recalcitrant.org  Sat Aug 16 14:11:51 2003
From: apost at recalcitrant.org (Alan Post)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] OK to Nuke Redmond
In-Reply-To: <20030816200002.GZ15789@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20030813212026.A7651@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814080120.GU20458@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030814085110.A18437@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814171342.GL15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030815190322.C2810@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816020348.GX15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030816032246.GA6677@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816063137.GY15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030816163727.GA15039@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816200002.GZ15789@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20030816211151.GB20375@recalcitrant.org>

* Rick Moen (rick@linuxmafia.com) [030816 13:07]:
> 
> Now, I'm not saying this turns us into 1980 Argentina under the
> generals, where about 30,000 people were "disappeared" without charge

Hey, no need to be in a hurry all of a sudden.  Give them time --
they're working on it.


From thesubjugator at subjugation.org  Sat Aug 16 14:33:26 2003
From: thesubjugator at subjugation.org (Lord Protector of the Port Jefferson Power Station)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: gnu/linux type of computer
In-Reply-To: <20030815195331.A4476@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
References: <E19iTVg-0003fv-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
	<20030801131633.GJ16321@tastytronic.net>
	<20030801134029.GA20109@oven.home.net>
	<20030801135222.GL16321@tastytronic.net>
	<200308011526.h71FQlr14051@mail0.rawbw.com>
	<20030801153042.GV20242@lug.org.uk>
	<200308011744.h71Hi3r68029@mail0.rawbw.com>
	<20030801180034.GQ16321@tastytronic.net>
	<20030814131303.GA18762@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<1060916795.1168.581.camel@dante>
	<20030815195331.A4476@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
Message-ID: <1061069605.1099.59555.camel@dante>

On Fri, 2003-08-15 at 19:53, NotResponsiblefortheBlackOut@mrbrklyn.com
wrote:
> Then your one step in fornt of me.  I have NO idea what I'm up to.

More to the point, one step east of you.  I have to stay on my toes.




From jdub at perkypants.org  Sat Aug 16 19:52:00 2003
From: jdub at perkypants.org (Jeff Waugh)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] OK to Nuke Redmond
In-Reply-To: <20030816170613.E32354@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
References: <20030814080120.GU20458@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030814085110.A18437@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814171342.GL15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030815190322.C2810@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816020348.GX15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030816032246.GA6677@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816063137.GY15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030816163727.GA15039@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816200002.GZ15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030816170613.E32354@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
Message-ID: <20030817025200.GJ717@lazarus>

<quote who="CEO of Brooklyn - Provider of Power to the NYC Region">

> The problem here is that we have no end game for this war. What is the
> goal of this war? If it is not to reshape our enemy states and to
> reorganizations those societies into Democractic Civil societies, then
> we're, with out a doubt, going to see an increased number of these abuses
> of power and New York will be nuked ANYWAY.

You are an embarrassment to your countrymen, and your race.

- Jeff

-- 
linux.conf.au 2004: Adelaide, Australia         http://lca2004.linux.org.au/
 
  "When's the last time you heard of the police having to intervene at an
                   antiquarian book riot?" - Raph Levien


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Sat Aug 16 20:01:37 2003
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] OK to Nuke Redmond
In-Reply-To: <20030817025200.GJ717@lazarus>
References: <20030814085110.A18437@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814171342.GL15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030815190322.C2810@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816020348.GX15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030816032246.GA6677@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816063137.GY15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030816163727.GA15039@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816200002.GZ15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030816170613.E32354@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030817025200.GJ717@lazarus>
Message-ID: <20030817030137.GA29468@zork.net>

begin  Jeff Weff  quotation:
> <quote who="CEO of Brooklyn - Provider of Power to the NYC Region">
> > The problem here is that we have no end game for this war. What is
> > the goal of this war? If it is not to reshape our enemy states and
> > to reorganizations those societies into Democractic Civil
> > societies, then we're, with out a doubt, going to see an increased
> > number of these abuses of power and New York will be nuked ANYWAY.
> 
> You are an embarrassment to your countrymen, and your race.

	Not to mention this list.

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From thesubjugator at subjugation.org  Sat Aug 16 20:56:45 2003
From: thesubjugator at subjugation.org (Lord Protector of the Port Jefferson Power Station)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] OK to Nuke Redmond
In-Reply-To: <20030817030137.GA29468@zork.net>
References: <20030814085110.A18437@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814171342.GL15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030815190322.C2810@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816020348.GX15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030816032246.GA6677@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816063137.GY15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030816163727.GA15039@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816200002.GZ15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030816170613.E32354@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030817025200.GJ717@lazarus> <20030817030137.GA29468@zork.net>
Message-ID: <1061092605.1166.69578.camel@dante>

On Sat, 2003-08-16 at 23:01, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San
Francisco wrote:
> begin  Jeff Weff  quotation:
> > You are an embarrassment to your countrymen, and your race.
> 
> 	Not to mention this list.

_This list_ is beyond embarrassment.  If it had any shame, it would have
tied a bag over its own head long ago.




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Sun Aug 17 00:24:15 2003
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] OK to Nuke Redmond
In-Reply-To: <20030816170613.E32354@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
References: <20030814080120.GU20458@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030814085110.A18437@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814171342.GL15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030815190322.C2810@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816020348.GX15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030816032246.GA6677@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816063137.GY15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030816163727.GA15039@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816200002.GZ15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030816170613.E32354@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
Message-ID: <20030817072415.GB15789@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting CEO of Brooklyn - Provider of Power to the NYC Region (ruben@mrbrklyn.com):

> It may have seemed that this was my motivation but this was not why I
> quoted him. I posted his message because I had just read it prior to
> Don's post, and I wished to stimulate a conversation such as we've had,
> and to learn more about the case, hopefuly in a balenced way with the
> least amount of hysterics (such as it may be in crackmonkey :)).

Yes.  Thank you.

> However, when I was in Bourdeux France at LSM I had French people, some
> of them instructing on FS security to large audiences, tell me just
> this, that we are sweeping the arabs off the streets in New York and
> throwing them into our 'Dungeons'.

Obviously, that is a serious exaggeration.  

The evidence suggest that there has been a sweep of dozens and possibly
up to a hundred or two citizens and permanent residents (overwhelmingly 
Arabs and/or Moslems), based on Executive Branch suspicions that may or
may not be well founded of their being relevant to terrorism
investigations, holding them secretly for extended terms without charge 
or other due process.

I see that as a problem, but you're right that it's only fair to see it
in proper perspective.

> The UMCJ actually applies to all code of conduct with regard to military
> activities, including the treatement of prisoiners, and the rights of
> prisionors. 

Yes, that's part of what I was trying to say.  But my point is that it
is binding on the conduct of the _jailers_, not (enemy combatant) 
prisoners.  It is a judicial code for _our_ military personnel, to
simultaneously maintain standards of justice and reinforce the chain of
command, there.

_Our_ guys consent to temporary limitation of their Constitutional
liberties through the act of enlisting in the armed forces.  They know
they're under UCMJ from that day until they're discharged.  

For a US citizen (or resident), by contrast, none of those conditions
apply.  You point out that UCMJ is a real code of justice:  Agreed --
for our soldiers who enlist and voluntarily assume that status so that
military command works.  You point out that UCMJ specifies how prisoners 
held by our military must be treated:  Agreed -- but claiming that means
it's a suitable code of justice for trying non-US-military personnel is a
non-sequitur.

We _have_ a perfectly usable justice system.  It includes Constitutional
rights like trial by a jury of one's peers.  If it's somehow broken, it
can and should be amended -- in the light of day, rather than skulking
around with secret detentions and sealed warrants.  

> Prisioners can and have brought cases to Military tribunals
> under UMCJ.

Again, those were trials of _our_ guys.  So were all your other
examples.

> This is where the problem lies. These obvious war conditions are less
> clear when dealing with Spies, Terrorists, and other combatants in
> military conflict.

We have hundreds of years of experience dealing with such matters even
during time of war[1]:  US citizens arrested for such things are tried
the regular way, under the regular laws, subject to the usual
Constitution.

There may be times when application of martial law (a selective form of
which you're discussing) is necessary.  This ain't one of them.  

> This was true when Lincoln suspended Habeous Corpus in the Civil
> War....

I'm glad you've raised that matter, since it's one I'm very familiar
with, and the difference between President Lincoln and Mister Bush is
quite instructive:

In 1861, immediately after secession, the city of Washington was almost
cut off from the rest of the Union, with a crucial narrow railroad link
running through Maryland.  The situation in Baltimore was unstable,
though, with the 6th Massachusetts Regiment's reinforcement troops
facing riots as they transited through the Baltimore terminal.  To
prevent cutoff of Washington and secure the supply line, Lincoln issued
a presidential order on May 25 informing the ranking Army officer that
he could ignore writ of habeas corpus for the limited period required to
suppress insurrection inside a small geographical region surrounding
Baltimore.

That action was technically unconstitutional:  Article I, Section 9 says
that _Congress_ (not the president) may suspend habeas corpus when "in
cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it".

Chief Justice Roger Taney (he of the infamous Dred Scott decision), a
Baltimore resident and secessionist, attempted to overrule Lincoln on
exactly those grounds.  Lincoln acknowledged the point of law but said 
that he had to act on an emergency basis or there'd have been no
Congress and no government.  Moreover, Congress immediately met and
_endorsed_ Lincoln's decision, rendering the point moot.  (Congress
similarly endorsed similar actions in some midwestern states, later.)

Five years later, a new Supreme Court essentially backed Justice Taney's
ruling: In an unrelated case, the court held that only Congress could
suspend habeas corpus and that civilians were not subject to military
courts, even in times of war. 

> ...with Washington's siezure of goods and serivces during the revolutionary
> was, and persecution of Loyalist sympathizers....

The Constitution hadn't yet been written.

> and continued with Cold War spy rings, on until today.

Cold War spies were all, every last one of them, tried under regular
laws in regular, Constitutional courts.

> Yes - but the Constitution has a loophole for military conditions.

There has been no finding by Congress that rebellion or invasion
requires suspension of habeas corpus.

> One the the UMCJ and the other is the traitor clause.

Nothing in the Constitution or any part of our judicial history
authorises trying civilians under military law.  To the contrary.

The crime of treason is tried under regular laws in regular,
Constitutional courts.

> And this is prior to any discussion of common law expression of the
> Constitution. The ultimate responsibility for the execution of these
> rights in granted to the civillian courts and the Congress.

That is correct.  And yet you are suggesting an end-run around that
tradition, putting civilians in military courts.  

> In order to hold him more than 48 hours, they would have to strip him of
> citizenship, or to have tried him as a traitor, or declared him a
> hostile foriegn agent. 

1.  Even a person stripped of citizenship for some reason is entitled to 
Constitutional rights such as a trial of one's peers as long as he
remains within US jurisdiction.

2.  Persons accused of treason _are_ being tried under regular law in
regular courts.

3.  Declaring a citizen a "hostile foreign agent" to justify stripping
him of rights has been, over the last year or so, a Bush Administration
ploy to circumvent the law, and is unacceptable.

> > But determining that they _are_ enemy soldiers doesn't require a court 
> > determination: We know in real time that they're enemy soldiers by 
> > observing the act of their shooting at our guys during a military 
> > engagement.
> 
> Actually, this is only true in an open combat condition, which is not
> the only condition in warfare combat. We bombed Hamburg until the city
> was largely sufficated from the lack of oxegen on the ground in WWII.

The point, however, is that there was no difficulty determining that
Germany and the occupants were enemies.  

> Certainly the civilians on the ground didn't 'seem' like soldiers. But
> they were treated as such and rightfully so.

The point is that they were very clearly not persons requiring a court
determination to authorise offensive operations against them.

To recap -- I was attempting to address your:

    Terrorism is not a crime.  We do not determine the guilt of
    soldiers who take up arms against us.

You were attempting to justify stripping citizens accused of "terrorism"
of rights on grounds of it being "warfare", stating that we don't stop to
determine the guilt of enemy soldiers.  My point was that there's no
ambiguity needing resolution in civil courts about legal status of enemy
soldiers -- nor of German civilians with the poor luck to still be in
Hamburg in July 1943.  They were/are outside our shores and the
protection of our laws.

With US citizens (and residents), especially _in_ the USA, those
conditions do not apply.  Therefore, we don't, we cannot say "You're
suspected of something really, really, really bad, so we're going to
strip a bunch of your Constitutional rights."  Of course, Mr.  Bush and
his gang _have_ been doing exactly that -- with the help of a few people
who should know better, such as U.S. District Judge Robert E. Jones. 

> And the same is true about 'Terrorists'. These aren't criminals.

But how do you determine that J. Random Citizen is a "terrorist"? 
You can't look for the secret terrorist mark on his forehead.  Absent that, 
you need the usual:  laws, trials, Constitutional rights.

> I agree with you, to the point that I do. I have no idea what he was
> caught doing, or not caught doing. Unfortunately this is not a perfect
> world, and his right to habeous corpus must be respected, as well as his
> due process. Even war prisioners have the right to due process. We will
> not know for several years the real circumstance behind the governments
> motivation, or the evidence against him. The government clearly violated
> his rights according to the facts that have been presented.

OK.

> But for the record, I don't think it would have been even remotely
> likely that he would sign a confession or agree to co-operate with the
> government in cases against other individuals if he didn't have some
> inside knowledge of the activities that the government was following up.

I can easily imagine someone being seized at gunpoint by an FBI squad,
taken to secret imprisonment, and denied all Constitutional rights for
months, signing any piece of paper that he's told would set him free in
7-10 years instead of staying in solitary indefinitely without charge,
trial, or hope of any change in that status.

I don't know what the man is factually guilty of.  But I do know that
his treatment is exactly the sort of thing that extracts confessions
from innocent people, which is why it's illegal.

This thread started with Pipes being quoted as criticising people who'd
cried foul over Hawash's treatment.  I've been replying to point out
why they were absolutely right.

> This was an individual of substance with a firm streak prinicple. This
> guy is probibly no more or less guilty than the Rosenbergs. Even still,
> this is not an excuse for suspending Habeous Corpus. This man, traitor
> or not, is a US citizen and desired the full weight of the Constitution
> to protect him and all of us from government abuse.

Thank you.




From ian at halliday.com  Mon Aug 18 00:14:02 2003
From: ian at halliday.com (Halliday, Ian)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Stupid security made me do it
Message-ID: <E19oeDR-0002m3-00@zork.zork.net>

begin  It's a while since I've had an ad-hominem attack.
StupidSecurity.com sent me to the Crypto-gram, who sent me to zug.com, who have another writer who talks about monkeys on crack. Maybe you could sue them for lack of originality:

Credit card signatures are a useless mechanism designed to make you feel safe, like airport security checks. So my question was, how crazy would I have to make my signature before someone would actually notice? Here is the actual signature on my credit card. You can see that I already have the signature of a monkey on crack.

Ian
--
Ian W Halliday, BA Hons, AAIBF Snr, ATMS, CL
+64 27 245 6089 (GMT+12)
http://baptism.co.nz ; http://ringbark.livejournal.com
--
Word documents not accepted -- see http://baptism.co.nz/word.html 


From inkblot at movealong.org  Mon Aug 18 00:33:51 2003
From: inkblot at movealong.org (The Archduke of Chicago and Subjugator of Michigan)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Stupid security made me do it
In-Reply-To: <E19oeDR-0002m3-00@zork.zork.net>
References: <E19oeDR-0002m3-00@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <20030818073351.GA16994@movealong.org>

Halliday, Ian said:
> begin  It's a while since I've had an ad-hominem attack.

Clearly not, you linebreak-shunning fuck.

-- 
--< ((\))< >----< inkblot@movealong.org >----< http://www.movealong.org/ >--
pub  1024D/05A058E0 2002-03-07 Nate Riffe (06-Mar-2002) <inkblot@movealong.org>
     Key fingerprint = 0DAC F5CB D182 3165 D757  C466 CD42 12A8 05A0 58E0


From thaytan at mad.scientist.com  Mon Aug 18 00:35:52 2003
From: thaytan at mad.scientist.com (Jan Schmidt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Stupid security made me do it
In-Reply-To: <E19oeDR-0002m3-00@zork.zork.net>
References: <E19oeDR-0002m3-00@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <20030818073552.GG2569@oven.home.net>

<quote who="Halliday, Ian">
> begin  It's a while since I've had an ad-hominem attack.
> StupidSecurity.com sent me to the Crypto-gram, who sent me to zug.com, who have another writer who talks about monkeys on crack. Maybe you could sue them for lack of originality:
> 

Pfft.

If lack of originality was against the law, then every person on this list
would be in a courtroom begging for mercy with a steering wheel attached 
to their orange dicks.

J.
-- 
Jan Schmidt                                  thaytan@mad.scientist.com

Open Source Software: Free as in Free Speech, not Free Beer


From ruben at mrbrklyn.com  Tue Aug 19 05:51:21 2003
From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (CEO of Brooklyn)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Stupid security made me do it
In-Reply-To: <20030818073552.GG2569@oven.home.net>;
	from thaytan@mad.scientist.com on Mon, Aug 18, 2003 at 03:35:52
	-0400
References: <E19oeDR-0002m3-00@zork.zork.net>
	<20030818073552.GG2569@oven.home.net>
Message-ID: <20030819085121.A26493@www2.mrbrklyn.com>


Crack Turns your penis green, not orange, unless your a women.  
Then it turns it bright red.  And it's not the steering wheel that
gets stuck to the green dick, it is the stick shift.

get it right

CEO of Brooklyn:  The topppostests with the mostests.

> with a steering wheel attached 
> to their orange dicks.
> 
> J.
> -- 
> Jan Schmidt                                  thaytan@mad.scientist.com
> 
> Open Source Software: Free as in Free Speech, not Free Beer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks
> http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey
> 
-- 
__________________________
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com

http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....

1-718-382-0585


From sayler at speedsite.com  Tue Aug 19 07:03:26 2003
From: sayler at speedsite.com (Matthew Sayler)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Stupid security made me do it
In-Reply-To: <20030819085121.A26493@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
References: <E19oeDR-0002m3-00@zork.zork.net>
	<20030818073552.GG2569@oven.home.net>
	<20030819085121.A26493@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
Message-ID: <20030819140326.GB1804@cesum.speedsite.com>

On Tue, Aug 19, 2003 at 08:51:21AM -0400, CEO of Brooklyn wrote:
> Crack Turns your penis green, not orange, unless your a women.  
> Then it turns it bright red.  And it's not the steering wheel that
> gets stuck to the green dick, it is the stick shift.

Is that how they decided on the colors of the clicklet window-dressing
for OS X?

Matt

-- 
/* Matt Sayler    -- Sr. Network Engineer, Speedsite Online
 * (773) 324-2954 -- sayler@speedsite.com */


From jv at zork.net  Tue Aug 19 16:53:49 2003
From: jv at zork.net (Juggler Vain)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: RIMGL: [!CrackMonkey!] Due Process
In-Reply-To: <20030816165703.GT29299@pug.chroot.net>
References: <20030813212026.A7651@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814080120.GU20458@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030814085110.A18437@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030814171342.GL15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<20030815190322.C2810@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
	<20030816020348.GX15789@linuxmafia.com>
	<3F3D9AB2.7030804@sopko.net> <20030816030203.GC3405@linuxmafia.com>
	<3F3DA342.7000806@sopko.net>
	<20030816165703.GT29299@pug.chroot.net>
Message-ID: <20030819235349.GC24398@zork.net>

begin  Jeremy McLeod quotation:
> On Fri Aug 15, 2003 at 11:21:38PM -0400, Jason Sopko wrote:
> > liberties of a few people.
> s/a few people/everyone/
> > The founding fathers are most likely rolling in their 
> > graves.
> O yes.

Stalin:  "Ha ha, America totally wins the Cold War (Rolling In My Grave 
Laughing)".  -jv



From dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu  Wed Aug 20 00:39:13 2003
From: dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu (Don Saklad)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] http://sethf.com
Message-ID: <E19pNYn-0004hE-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>

   http://sethf.com/
                      Seth Finkelstein's Home Site
                                    
   Quick navigation (I'm a server programmer, not a web-designer ...):
   
                         ANTICENSORWARE   PIONEER
                                    
                     BLOG   ESSAYS   DOMAINS   PRESS
                                    
   See my Infothought blog and Infothought mailing list.
   
   New and notable:
   
   Read my April 2003 DMCA testimony at the Washington, D.C. hearings
   for Copyright Office rulemaking proceedings
   
   February 10, 2003: Online Policy Group, Seth Finkelstein Submit
   CIPA Court Brief ("... a brief to the U.S. Supreme Court supporting
   a lower court decision that the Children's Internet Protection Act
   (CIPA) places unconstitutional limitations on free speech ...")
   
   PR! See discussion of my DMCA guide in the PCWorld online article
   "Digital Copyright Law Up for Challenge" , and their follow-up
   "Copyright Office considers exemptions to DMCA".
   
   December 2002: Searching Through The Great Firewall Of China - This
   report describes a simple technique which can be used with some
   search engines to bypass censorware bans on searching for forbidden
   words.
   
   November 2002: EFF is pleased to present a guide to the DMCA
   "exemption" process (written by me) How To Win (DMCA) Exemptions
   And Influence Policy. I am "one of the very few people who
   succeeded in arguing for an exemption (for the act of circumventing
   access/copy controls on censorware blacklists)".
   
   November 2002: Updated report: BESS's Secret LOOPHOLE (censorware
   vs privacy & anonymity)
   This exposes a secret category within the BESS (N2H2) censorware,
   and discussing agains why censorware must prohibit site which
   provide privacy, anonymity, language-translation, even web page
   feature checking, and more
   
   June, 2002:Federal censorware law overturned. And the court seems
   to have used my anticensorware reports as one factor in its
   decision!
   
   March, 2002: New Anticensorware Investigations:
   BESS vs Image Search Engines - BESS bans several general popular
   images search engines as pornography. 
   The Pre-Slipped Slope - censorware vs the Wayback Machine web
   archive - The logic of censorware programs suppressing an enormous
   digital library.
   
   July 19, 2001: I'm profiled in the New York Times! Cracking the
   Code Of Online Censorship
   
   Enjoy my latest essay: Thoughts On Winning An EFF Pioneer Award
   (May 2001)
   
   I've co-authored a White Paper for the National Research Council
   with Lee Tien of EFF :  Blacklisting Bytes
   
   March 5, 2001:
   
     ELECTRONIC FRONTIER FOUNDATION (EFF) PIONEER AWARDS HONOR
     INTERNET LUMINARIES 
     
     Ennis, Finkelstein, and Perrin Presented Awards at EFF's Tenth
     Annual Pioneer Awards Ceremony
     ...
     Seth Finkelstein - Anti-censorship activist and programmer Seth
     Finkelstein spent hundreds of unpaid and uncredited hours over
     several years to decrypt and expose to public scrutiny the
     secret contents of the most popular censorware blacklists. Seth
     has been active in raising the level of public awareness about
     the dangers that Internet content blocking software and
     rating/labeling schemes pose to freedom of communication. His
     work has armed many with information of great assistance in the
     fight against government mandated use of these systems.
     
   EFF Statement -- Dec. 22, 2000 on mandatory library censorware :
   
     Seth Finkelstein, the programmer principally responsible for the
     investigation of X-Stop filtering software and its flaws, vital
     to the landmark Mainstream Loudon victory, ... 
     
   Older stuff : (December 7, 2000) SmartFilter - I've Got A Little
   List. I examine SmartFilter's blacklist in some detail, and explain
   why personal and legal constraints hinder me from helping you
   examine it too.
   
   Mail comments to:   Seth Finkelstein  sethf@sethf.com
   http://sethf.com/


From jv at zork.net  Wed Aug 20 14:27:35 2003
From: jv at zork.net (Juggler Vain)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: Peeping Tom: [!CrackMonkey!] http://sethf.com
In-Reply-To: <E19pNYn-0004hE-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
References: <E19pNYn-0004hE-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <20030820212735.GC22098@zork.net>

begin  Don Saklad quotation:
>    http://sethf.com/
[...]

>From [http://sethf.com/anticensorware/bess/loophole.php] (why censorware 
must prohibit site which provide privacy, anonymity, 
language-translation, even web page feature checking, and more):

   "The most interesting category of BESS turns out to be one which
isn't mentioned in the documentation or PR. In particular, N2H2 has a
category called LOOPHOLE which is, to put it politely, undocumented.

   "This is nowhere to be seen in their public discussion of what can be
banned. However, its existence can be discovered by looking at the
category list inside binaries associated with N2H2's server. There s
also a corresponding code LH which appears in log files of a N2H2
server."

... seriously, folks, I'll bet that Bess apprehends Seth as having
finagled a camera into his shoe, and of taking upsource shots of
proprietary foundation garments. 

Absent from his homepage:  mention of Supreme Court voting to Save The 
Children from a Fate Worse than Death.  

Having fixed his hole where hard rain came in, & stopped his mind from 
wandering; he's just discrete enough to explain why he oughtn't help you 
fix yours [http://sethf.com/anticensorware/smartfilter/gotalist.php].  

If I were The Man, I'd arrest him now.  -jv... notorious radio-pirate



From pgl at yoyo.org  Wed Aug 20 17:44:29 2003
From: pgl at yoyo.org (Peter Lowe)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Stupid security made me do it
In-Reply-To: <20030818073552.GG2569@oven.home.net>
References: <E19oeDR-0002m3-00@zork.zork.net>
	<20030818073552.GG2569@oven.home.net>
Message-ID: <20030821004429.GB84901@yoyo.org>

On Aug 18, Jan Schmidt wrote:
> <quote who="Halliday, Ian">
> > begin  It's a while since I've had an ad-hominem attack.
> > StupidSecurity.com sent me to the Crypto-gram, who sent me to zug.com, who have another writer who talks about monkeys on crack. Maybe you could sue them for lack of originality:
> > 
> 
> Pfft.

Y'know, I've always thought that if lacking originality was illegal,
everybody on this list would be like, in jail or something right now
where I heard they force new inmates to use orange soap and stuff
(apparently a tradition started by Steering Wheel Willie back in '76
after some guy called him a penis pirate).

-- 
The Czech Republic: Home of the world's finest beer.
Litres drunk by Czechs so far this year: 1,043,084,398.79

 - http://prague.tv/toys/beer/


From dep at linuxandmain.com  Thu Aug 21 12:27:40 2003
From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] windows vulnerable if i.e. visits malicious page .
	. .
Message-ID: <200308211527.40789.dep@linuxandmain.com>

http://computerworld.com/newsletter/0,4902,84211,00.html?nlid=AM

"The critical flaws affect IE Versions 5.01, 5.5, 6.0 and 6.0 with 
Service Pack 1 installed, and could allow an attacker to run arbitrary 
code on a user's system if the user either visited a Web site or read 
an e-mail message in HTML designed to exploit the flaw, Microsoft 
said."

gee. whoda thunk it.
-- 
dep

Truth is so obscure in these times and falsehood so established, 
that unless we love the truth, we cannot know it. - Blaise Pascal


From henrik at enberg.org  Thu Aug 21 12:49:51 2003
From: henrik at enberg.org (Henrik Enberg)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: windows vulnerable if i.e. visits malicious
	page . . .
In-Reply-To: <200308211527.40789.dep@linuxandmain.com> (dep@linuxandmain.com's
	message of "Thu, 21 Aug 2003 15:27:40 -0400")
References: <200308211527.40789.dep@linuxandmain.com>
Message-ID: <87zni2bxk0.fsf@enberg.org>

dep <dep@linuxandmain.com> writes:

> "The critical flaws affect IE Versions 5.01, 5.5, 6.0 and 6.0 with 
> Service Pack 1 installed, and could allow an attacker to run arbitrary 
> code on a user's system if the user either visited a Web site or read 
> an e-mail message in HTML designed to exploit the flaw, Microsoft 
> said."

Oh man, that like totally rules.  Nothing makes me feel more smug and
sure of myself than the shortcomings of something I don't even use.

I'm gonna go and submit this to slashdot right now.


From jdub at perkypants.org  Thu Aug 21 13:06:18 2003
From: jdub at perkypants.org (Jeff Waugh)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: windows vulnerable if i.e. visits malicious
	page . . .
In-Reply-To: <87zni2bxk0.fsf@enberg.org>
References: <200308211527.40789.dep@linuxandmain.com>
	<87zni2bxk0.fsf@enberg.org>
Message-ID: <20030821200618.GM30177@lazarus>

<quote who="Henrik Enberg">

> Oh man, that like totally rules.  Nothing makes me feel more smug and sure
> of myself than the shortcomings of something I don't even use.

Is it orange?

- Jeff

-- 
linux.conf.au 2004: Adelaide, Australia         http://lca2004.linux.org.au/
 
         "Applications are just kernel testcases." - Andrew Morton


From nick at zork.net  Thu Aug 21 22:36:37 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	subscription notification]
Message-ID: <20030822053637.GC32111@zork.net>

Fuck off.

----- Forwarded message from mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org -----

Pete de Zwart <dezwart@froob.net> has been successfully subscribed to
CrackMonkey.



----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From dezwart at froob.net  Thu Aug 21 23:33:07 2003
From: dezwart at froob.net (Pete de Zwart)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	subscription notification]
In-Reply-To: <20030822053637.GC32111@zork.net>
References: <20030822053637.GC32111@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20030822063307.GA29341@tropism>

Around about 2236h 21/08/2003, Nick Moffitt emitted the following wisdom:
> Fuck off.

On what grounds?

-- 
The real cause of your computer problem according to the BOFH:
knot in cables caused data stream to become twisted and kinked



From nick at zork.net  Thu Aug 21 23:49:30 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	subscription notification]
In-Reply-To: <20030822063307.GA29341@tropism>
References: <20030822053637.GC32111@zork.net> <20030822063307.GA29341@tropism>
Message-ID: <20030822064929.GE32111@zork.net>

begin  Pete de Zwart  quotation:
> Around about 2236h 21/08/2003, Nick Moffitt emitted the following wisdom:
> > Fuck off.
> 
> On what grounds?

	I don't like your tone.

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From dep at linuxandmain.com  Fri Aug 22 04:35:36 2003
From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	subscription notification]
In-Reply-To: <20030822064929.GE32111@zork.net>
References: <20030822053637.GC32111@zork.net> <20030822063307.GA29341@tropism>
	<20030822064929.GE32111@zork.net>
Message-ID: <200308220735.36271.dep@linuxandmain.com>

quoth Nick Moffitt:
| begin  Pete de Zwart  quotation:
| > Around about 2236h 21/08/2003, Nick Moffitt emitted the following 
wisdom:
| > > Fuck off.
| >
| > On what grounds?
|
| 	I don't like your tone.

too pale?
-- 
dep

Truth is so obscure in these times and falsehood so established, 
that unless we love the truth, we cannot know it. - Blaise Pascal


From necco at relst8.net  Fri Aug 22 06:26:52 2003
From: necco at relst8.net (Loki Ambrodious von Esling)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	subscription notification]
In-Reply-To: <200308220735.36271.dep@linuxandmain.com>
References: <20030822053637.GC32111@zork.net> <20030822063307.GA29341@tropism>
	<20030822064929.GE32111@zork.net>
	<200308220735.36271.dep@linuxandmain.com>
Message-ID: <20030822132652.GA20804@relst8.net>

On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 07:35:36AM -0400, dep wrote:
> quoth Nick Moffitt:
> | begin  Pete de Zwart  quotation:
> | > Around about 2236h 21/08/2003, Nick Moffitt emitted the following 
> wisdom:
> | > > Fuck off.
> | >
> | > On what grounds?
> |
> | 	I don't like your tone.
> 
> too pale?

all those Z-named people you know, are either neo-nazis or Superman
villans.

-- 
 . \ ` ' / .
._` __^__ '_.  Loki Ambridous von Esling
   [()=()]     RELST8 - http://www.relst8.net
   /_____\  
  Justified



From neuro at well.com  Fri Aug 22 07:38:38 2003
From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	subscription notification]
In-Reply-To: <20030822132652.GA20804@relst8.net>
References: <20030822053637.GC32111@zork.net>
	<20030822063307.GA29341@tropism>	<20030822064929.GE32111@zork.net>	<200308220735.36271.dep@linuxandmain.com>
	<20030822132652.GA20804@relst8.net>
Message-ID: <3F462AEE.3060204@well.com>

Loki Ambrodious von Esling wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 07:35:36AM -0400, dep wrote:
> 
>>quoth Nick Moffitt:
>>| begin  Pete de Zwart  quotation:
>>| > Around about 2236h 21/08/2003, Nick Moffitt emitted the following 
>>wisdom:
>>| > > Fuck off.
>>| >
>>| > On what grounds?
>>|
>>| 	I don't like your tone.
>>
>>too pale?
> 
> 
> all those Z-named people you know, are either neo-nazis or Superman
> villans.

Except Major Disaster.  And Mxyztplk.  But you should probably kneel before
Zod anyway.

-- 
_ __/|   ___  ___ __ _________ "When Microsoft Office is your only hammer,
\`O_o'  / _ \/ -_) // / __/ _ \ pretty much everything begins to look like
=(_ _)=/_//_/\__/\_,_/_/  \___/ a nail. Or a thumb." -- Rob Pegoraro
    U - Ack! Phttpt! Thhbbt!     neuro at well dot com  http://neuro.me.uk/





From jordanb at hafd.org  Fri Aug 22 09:00:24 2003
From: jordanb at hafd.org (jordanb@hafd.org)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	subscription notification]
In-Reply-To: <3F462AEE.3060204@well.com>
References: <20030822053637.GC32111@zork.net> <20030822063307.GA29341@tropism>
	<20030822064929.GE32111@zork.net>
	<200308220735.36271.dep@linuxandmain.com>
	<20030822132652.GA20804@relst8.net> <3F462AEE.3060204@well.com>
Message-ID: <878ypllm1z.fsf@eddie.hafd.org>

William Anderson <neuro@well.com> writes:
> -- 
> _ __/|   ___  ___ __ _________ "When Microsoft Office is your only hammer,
> \`O_o'  / _ \/ -_) // / __/ _ \ pretty much everything begins to look like
> =(_ _)=/_//_/\__/\_,_/_/  \___/ a nail. Or a thumb." -- Rob Pegoraro
>     U - Ack! Phttpt! Thhbbt!     neuro at well dot com  http://neuro.me.uk/

Wow. That sig is like a time warp back to 1996!

-- 
Jordan Bettis <http://www.hafd.org/~jordanb>
Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is 
a merger of state and corporate power. 
        -- Benito Mussolini


From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu  Fri Aug 22 09:06:49 2003
From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian Danger Hicks)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	subscription notification]
In-Reply-To: <20030822132652.GA20804@relst8.net>
References: <20030822053637.GC32111@zork.net> <20030822063307.GA29341@tropism>
	<20030822064929.GE32111@zork.net>
	<200308220735.36271.dep@linuxandmain.com>
	<20030822132652.GA20804@relst8.net>
Message-ID: <20030822160649.GD23046@8ball.wox.org>

commence  Loki Ambrodious von Esling  quotation:
> all those Z-named people you know, are either neo-nazis or Superman
> villans.

How dare you say that about Hans Zarkov!

-- 
Brian Hicks               <mailto:hick0142@tc.umn.edu>
   <http://eight.dhs.org> <ham:KC0OIH> <PGP:0xADDD1F16>


From neuro at well.com  Fri Aug 22 09:22:28 2003
From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	subscription notification]
In-Reply-To: <878ypllm1z.fsf@eddie.hafd.org>
References: <20030822053637.GC32111@zork.net>
	<20030822063307.GA29341@tropism>	<20030822064929.GE32111@zork.net>	<200308220735.36271.dep@linuxandmain.com>	<20030822132652.GA20804@relst8.net>
	<3F462AEE.3060204@well.com> <878ypllm1z.fsf@eddie.hafd.org>
Message-ID: <3F464344.9010504@well.com>

jordanb@hafd.org wrote:
> [sig snippage]
> 
> Wow. That sig is like a time warp back to 1996!

One day, I'll escape to discover what 1997 will be like.

-- 
_ __/|   ___  ___ __ _________ "When Microsoft Office is your only hammer,
\`O_o'  / _ \/ -_) // / __/ _ \ pretty much everything begins to look like
=(_ _)=/_//_/\__/\_,_/_/  \___/ a nail. Or a thumb." -- Rob Pegoraro
    U - Ack! Phttpt! Thhbbt!     neuro at well dot com  http://neuro.me.uk/



From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Fri Aug 22 11:34:19 2003
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	subscription notification]
In-Reply-To: <878ypllm1z.fsf@eddie.hafd.org>
References: <20030822053637.GC32111@zork.net> <20030822063307.GA29341@tropism>
	<20030822064929.GE32111@zork.net>
	<200308220735.36271.dep@linuxandmain.com>
	<20030822132652.GA20804@relst8.net> <3F462AEE.3060204@well.com>
	<878ypllm1z.fsf@eddie.hafd.org>
Message-ID: <20030822183419.GN32111@zork.net>

begin  jordanb@hafd.org  quotation:
> William Anderson <neuro@well.com> writes:
> > -- 
> > _ __/|   ___  ___ __ _________ "When Microsoft Office is your only hammer,
> > \`O_o'  / _ \/ -_) // / __/ _ \ pretty much everything begins to look like
> > =(_ _)=/_//_/\__/\_,_/_/  \___/ a nail. Or a thumb." -- Rob Pegoraro
> >     U - Ack! Phttpt! Thhbbt!     neuro at well dot com  http://neuro.me.uk/
> 
> Wow. That sig is like a time warp back to 1996!

	You were still in diapers in 1996, Jordan.

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu  Fri Aug 22 11:54:40 2003
From: dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu (Don Saklad)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] How to ask a reference enquiry. Background
	information on our BPL.
Message-ID: <E19qH3Y-0006D5-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>

Thank you for your interest Bernard A. Margolis !

Please forgive me for irking you. I'm sorry. I'll cooperate too.

Do give
BPL reference desks,
readers and information services desks
and audiovisual department counter services
a better idea of how interested, concerned or affected
BPLusers/clientele might pursue this important interest.

For the best response, how do you ask a recursive reference enquiry?...
for background about our BPL itself,
its departmental reports,
its consultants' studies
and consultants' reports.



A votre service!



Cheers! and kind regards,
 oo__   Don Warner Saklad

        don@saklad.org



Cc: Bernard A. Margolis


From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu  Fri Aug 22 13:13:50 2003
From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian Danger Hicks)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	subscription notification]
In-Reply-To: <20030822183419.GN32111@zork.net>
References: <20030822053637.GC32111@zork.net> <20030822063307.GA29341@tropism>
	<20030822064929.GE32111@zork.net>
	<200308220735.36271.dep@linuxandmain.com>
	<20030822132652.GA20804@relst8.net> <3F462AEE.3060204@well.com>
	<878ypllm1z.fsf@eddie.hafd.org> <20030822183419.GN32111@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20030822201350.GE23046@8ball.wox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

commence  Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco  quotation:
> begin  jordanb@hafd.org  quotation:
> > Wow. That sig is like a time warp back to 1996!
> 
> 	You were still in diapers in 1996, Jordan.

And how is this different than, say, 2003?

- -- 
Brian Hicks               <mailto:hick0142@tc.umn.edu>
   <http://eight.dhs.org> <ham:KC0OIH> <PGP:0xADDD1F16>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE/Rnl9jLHcIq3dHxYRAhipAKCG7bBT0I4Gcco5A+uCXPEPFsabEwCgvhtu
19sUihJ56ebMCXshJz1c6dw=
=tQts
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From nick at zork.net  Fri Aug 22 16:01:46 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] n@ai bitches about evolution
Message-ID: <20030822230146.GA6565@zork.net>

http://lists.ximian.com/archives/public/evolution/2002-January/016633.html
> I just tried to use one of my email address <n@ai> in the Email
> Address field of a new Evolution account, and discovered it won't
> let me. 

I hereby nominate this the second best bug ever, after
http://bugs.xiph.org/show_bug.cgi?id=245


-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From bmargolis at bpl.org  Fri Aug 22 20:11:21 2003
From: bmargolis at bpl.org (Bernard A. Margolis)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] How to ask a reference enquiry. Background
	information on our BPL.
In-Reply-To: <E19qH3Y-0006D5-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
References: <E19qH3Y-0006D5-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <20030823031121.GA11198@alternex.com.br>

On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 02:54:40PM -0400, Don Saklad wrote:
> Thank you for your interest Bernard A. Margolis !

Sure thing, Dan!

> Please forgive me for irking you. I'm sorry. I'll cooperate too.

That's ok, dude!  Come on, we're all book rats here.

> Do give
> BPL reference desks,

Sure.

> readers and information services desks

Well, we're short of those right now.

> and audiovisual department counter services

Oh, so I didn't tell you?  Mary was supposed to receive them, but you
know how EF&F is! Hahaha!

Anyway, it's looking really nice, the color is just superb.  Keith
(remember him?) reminds me to congratulate you on the impecable choice.

> a better idea of how interested, concerned or affected
> BPLusers/clientele might pursue this important interest.

I'll give you a quote on Monday, okay?

> For the best response, how do you ask a recursive reference
> enquiry?...

A simplified recursive reference enquiry or an anaphoric one?

> for background about our BPL itself,
> its departmental reports,
> its consultants' studies
> and consultants' reports.

For Good And Justice, amen.

> A votre service!

Beaujolais!

-- 
Bernard A. Margolis <bmargolis@bpl.org>
President, Boston Public Library


From nick at zork.net  Sat Aug 23 06:54:33 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
Message-ID: <20030823135433.GC6565@zork.net>

Well I'm glad THAT's all worked out now.

----- Forwarded message from mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org -----

dsaklad@zurich.ai.mit.edu has been removed from CrackMonkey.

Don Warner Saklad <dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu> has been successfully
subscribed to CrackMonkey.

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Sat Aug 23 07:27:20 2003
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20030823135433.GC6565@zork.net>
References: <20030823135433.GC6565@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20030823142720.GA7460@callisto.jtan.com>

On Sat, Aug 23, 2003 at 06:54:33AM -0700, Nick Moffitt wrote:

> Well I'm glad THAT's all worked out now.

I dunno. I have some concerns. It seems to me that this domain:

> dsaklad@zurich.ai.mit.edu
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
is much kewler than this one:

> dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Don would be well advised to reconsider this rash move. It's all very 
disconcerting, if you ask me. I mean, don't we have enough trouble on 
this list without folks going willy-nilly changing their addresses to 
less impressive ones? Why, it's enough to get a guy down, if you know 
what I mean. Criminy sakes alive!


-- 
Bob Bernstein   


From neuro at well.com  Sat Aug 23 07:54:28 2003
From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20030823135433.GC6565@zork.net>
References: <20030823135433.GC6565@zork.net>
Message-ID: <3F478024.7000701@well.com>

Nick Moffitt wrote:
> Well I'm glad THAT's all worked out now.
> 
> ----- Forwarded message from mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org -----
> 
> dsaklad@zurich.ai.mit.edu has been removed from CrackMonkey.
> 
> Don Warner Saklad <dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu> has been successfully
> subscribed to CrackMonkey.

Is he a Warner Brother?  Is he a member of MPAA?  Does he swing with RIAA? 
  Why would he affiliate with those purveyors of evil!  They make the 
Matrix!  Did Don take the blue pill?

And Bob's right, having ai in your domain name is da bomb.

-- 
_ __/|   ___  ___ __ _________ "When Microsoft Office is your only hammer,
\`O_o'  / _ \/ -_) // / __/ _ \ pretty much everything begins to look like
=(_ _)=/_//_/\__/\_,_/_/  \___/ a nail. Or a thumb." -- Rob Pegoraro
    U - Ack! Phttpt! Thhbbt!     neuro at well dot com  http://neuro.me.uk/



From jdub at perkypants.org  Sat Aug 23 07:54:29 2003
From: jdub at perkypants.org (Jeff Waugh)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20030823142720.GA7460@callisto.jtan.com>
References: <20030823135433.GC6565@zork.net>
	<20030823142720.GA7460@callisto.jtan.com>
Message-ID: <20030823145428.GA14328@lazarus>

<quote who="Bob Bernstein">

> Criminy sakes alive!

Do you call your brother dee-jay?

- Jeff

-- 
linux.conf.au 2004: Adelaide, Australia         http://lca2004.linux.org.au/
 
     "Is your sense of identity inextricably bound to a large prime?" -
                               Michael Meeks


From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Sat Aug 23 09:12:55 2003
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20030823145428.GA14328@lazarus>
References: <20030823135433.GC6565@zork.net>
	<20030823142720.GA7460@callisto.jtan.com>
	<20030823145428.GA14328@lazarus>
Message-ID: <20030823161255.GB7460@callisto.jtan.com>

On Sun, Aug 24, 2003 at 12:54:29AM +1000, Jeff Waugh wrote:

> Do you call your brother dee-jay?

No relation to djb. Or Leonard. 

My uncle Moe, however, was known as a pretty fair card-player, and could
pick a winning thoroughbred pretty regularly at Suffolk Downs.

-- 
Bob Bernstein   


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Sat Aug 23 09:39:20 2003
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20030823161255.GB7460@callisto.jtan.com>
References: <20030823135433.GC6565@zork.net>
	<20030823142720.GA7460@callisto.jtan.com>
	<20030823145428.GA14328@lazarus>
	<20030823161255.GB7460@callisto.jtan.com>
Message-ID: <20030823163920.GE6565@zork.net>

begin  Bob Bernstein  quotation:
> My uncle Moe, however, was known as a pretty fair card-player, and
> could pick a winning thoroughbred pretty regularly at Suffolk Downs.

	And by this, you are making a veiled allusion to "kissin'
cousins".

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From dep at linuxandmain.com  Sat Aug 23 10:25:32 2003
From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20030823161255.GB7460@callisto.jtan.com>
References: <20030823135433.GC6565@zork.net> <20030823145428.GA14328@lazarus>
	<20030823161255.GB7460@callisto.jtan.com>
Message-ID: <200308231325.32350.dep@linuxandmain.com>

quoth Bob Bernstein:

| My uncle Moe, however, was known as a pretty fair card-player, and
| could pick a winning thoroughbred pretty regularly at Suffolk Downs.

there is no such thing as a winning thoroughbred. that's why their 
scientific name is equus stupidicus.
-- 
dep

Truth is so obscure in these times and falsehood so established, 
that unless we love the truth, we cannot know it. - Blaise Pascal


From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Sat Aug 23 10:35:09 2003
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20030823163920.GE6565@zork.net>
References: <20030823135433.GC6565@zork.net>
	<20030823142720.GA7460@callisto.jtan.com>
	<20030823145428.GA14328@lazarus>
	<20030823161255.GB7460@callisto.jtan.com>
	<20030823163920.GE6565@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20030823173509.GC7460@callisto.jtan.com>

On Sat, Aug 23, 2003 at 09:39:20AM -0700, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote:

> 	And by this, you are making a veiled allusion to "kissin'
> cousins".

Fie on your "allusions!" I was simply chattering away like an 
empty-headed magpie, as is my God-given right. Damnit.

-- 
Bob Bernstein   


From nick at zork.net  Sat Aug 23 11:54:31 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
Message-ID: <20030823185430.GA10624@zork.net>

Aww, now he's all gone.

----- Forwarded message from mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org -----

dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu has been removed from CrackMonkey.


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From monkey at someplace.us  Sat Aug 23 12:25:23 2003
From: monkey at someplace.us (Monkey from the other side of the jungle)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Stupid security made me do it
In-Reply-To: <20030821004429.GB84901@yoyo.org>
References: <E19oeDR-0002m3-00@zork.zork.net>
	<20030818073552.GG2569@oven.home.net> <20030821004429.GB84901@yoyo.org>
Message-ID: <1061666722.1097.26162.camel@dante>

On Wed, 2003-08-20 at 20:44, Peter Lowe wrote:

> Y'know, I've always thought that if lacking originality was illegal,
> everybody on this list would be like, in jail or something right now
> ...

Some of the other monkeys were thinking of making a sacrifice to
sneakums in the hope that he will return wielding his sword of righteous
vengeance.

They lost interest though now that Saklad's gone, and want to burn the
library instead.




From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Sat Aug 23 12:40:28 2003
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20030823185430.GA10624@zork.net>
References: <20030823185430.GA10624@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20030823194028.GE7460@callisto.jtan.com>

On Sat, Aug 23, 2003 at 11:54:31AM -0700, Nick Moffitt wrote:

> Aww, now he's all gone.

Now look what you've done with your "allusions!" 

THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT. GO TO YOUR ROOM.

-- 
Bob Bernstein   


From nick at zork.net  Sat Aug 23 12:59:18 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
Message-ID: <20030823195918.GD10624@zork.net>

He's dropping off from his neat e-mail addresses one by one!

----- Forwarded message from mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org -----

dsaklad@gnu.org has been removed from CrackMonkey.


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From dep at linuxandmain.com  Sat Aug 23 15:12:41 2003
From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20030823195918.GD10624@zork.net>
References: <20030823195918.GD10624@zork.net>
Message-ID: <200308231812.42002.dep@linuxandmain.com>

quoth Nick Moffitt:
| He's dropping off from his neat e-mail addresses one by one!

maybe there comes a time when only one copy of each post is sufficient. 
i guess the list's saklad days are over.
-- 
dep

Truth is so obscure in these times and falsehood so established, 
that unless we love the truth, we cannot know it. - Blaise Pascal


From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Sat Aug 23 15:21:55 2003
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <200308231812.42002.dep@linuxandmain.com>
References: <20030823195918.GD10624@zork.net>
	<200308231812.42002.dep@linuxandmain.com>
Message-ID: <20030823222155.GF7460@callisto.jtan.com>

On Sat, Aug 23, 2003 at 06:12:41PM -0400, dep wrote:

> i guess the list's saklad days are over.

Let the saklad-meme days begin!

-- 
Bob Bernstein   


From neuro at well.com  Sat Aug 23 15:55:23 2003
From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:43 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20030823222155.GF7460@callisto.jtan.com>
References: <20030823195918.GD10624@zork.net>	<200308231812.42002.dep@linuxandmain.com>
	<20030823222155.GF7460@callisto.jtan.com>
Message-ID: <3F47F0DB.1000002@well.com>

Bob Bernstein wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 23, 2003 at 06:12:41PM -0400, dep wrote:
> 
>>i guess the list's saklad days are over.
> 
> Let the saklad-meme days begin!

Does this mean I need to go somewhere else to track Don's Incredible Fight 
against Boston's public library system?

-- 
_ __/|   ___  ___ __ _________ "When Microsoft Office is your only hammer,
\`O_o'  / _ \/ -_) // / __/ _ \ pretty much everything begins to look like
=(_ _)=/_//_/\__/\_,_/_/  \___/ a nail. Or a thumb." -- Rob Pegoraro
    U - Ack! Phttpt! Thhbbt!     neuro at well dot com  http://neuro.me.uk/



From dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu  Sat Aug 23 21:21:12 2003
From: dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu (Don Saklad)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:44 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: How to ask a reference enquiry. Background
	information on our BPL.
Message-ID: <E19qmNM-00070j-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>

Thank you faux prexy !
What do each of the letters mean mnemonically?... in EF&F


From nick at zork.net  Sat Aug 23 22:28:36 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:44 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	subscription notification]
Message-ID: <20030824052836.GA4656@zork.net>

RETURNING CHAMPION!

----- Forwarded message from mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org -----

Don Saklad <dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu> has been successfully
subscribed to CrackMonkey.



----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From jdub at perkypants.org  Sat Aug 23 22:47:21 2003
From: jdub at perkypants.org (Jeff Waugh)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:44 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20030823194028.GE7460@callisto.jtan.com>
References: <20030823185430.GA10624@zork.net>
	<20030823194028.GE7460@callisto.jtan.com>
Message-ID: <20030824054720.GB1476@lazarus>

<quote who="Bob Bernstein">

> On Sat, Aug 23, 2003 at 11:54:31AM -0700, Nick Moffitt wrote:
> 
> > Aww, now he's all gone.
> 
> Now look what you've done with your "allusions!" 
> 
> THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT. GO TO YOUR ROOM.

He smelt your brother's foul stench.

- Jeff

-- 
linux.conf.au 2004: Adelaide, Australia         http://lca2004.linux.org.au/
 
                      My VHS is better than your VHS.


From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Sat Aug 23 23:42:08 2003
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:44 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20030824054720.GB1476@lazarus>
References: <20030823185430.GA10624@zork.net>
	<20030823194028.GE7460@callisto.jtan.com>
	<20030824054720.GB1476@lazarus>
Message-ID: <20030824064208.GA21561@callisto.jtan.com>

On Sun, Aug 24, 2003 at 03:47:21PM +1000, Jeff Waugh wrote:

> He smelt your brother's foul stench.

Historically, djb trolls have never succeeded on cm, and for good 
reason!

-- 
Bob Bernstein   


From dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu  Sun Aug 24 00:46:23 2003
From: dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu (Don Saklad)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:44 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] The catalog of libraries that do not include the
	listing of their catalog in their catalog.
Message-ID: <E19qpZv-00073n-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>

Would it have been easier to have enquried at the reference desk for
the catalog of libraries that do not include the listing of their
catalog in their catalog?!

That may have been a posed by Bertrand Russell.


From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu  Sun Aug 24 12:02:16 2003
From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian Danger Hicks)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:44 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20030824064208.GA21561@callisto.jtan.com>
References: <20030823185430.GA10624@zork.net>
	<20030823194028.GE7460@callisto.jtan.com>
	<20030824054720.GB1476@lazarus>
	<20030824064208.GA21561@callisto.jtan.com>
Message-ID: <20030824190215.GF23046@8ball.wox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

commence  Bob Bernstein  quotation:
> Historically, djb trolls have never succeeded on cm, and for good 
> reason!

Are you talking about pro- or anti-?  Because I'm starting to suspect
you weren't paying attention.

- -- 
Brian Hicks               <mailto:hick0142@tc.umn.edu>
   <http://eight.dhs.org> <ham:KC0OIH> <PGP:0xADDD1F16>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE/SQo9jLHcIq3dHxYRAoKnAJsH9EBIpmi8R8SjpS5bSOlfYcH8vwCgqrcd
6T4uMlUYXTAh3C06Qak4b10=
=ezOi
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Sun Aug 24 13:05:00 2003
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:44 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20030824190215.GF23046@8ball.wox.org>
References: <20030823185430.GA10624@zork.net>
	<20030823194028.GE7460@callisto.jtan.com>
	<20030824054720.GB1476@lazarus>
	<20030824064208.GA21561@callisto.jtan.com>
	<20030824190215.GF23046@8ball.wox.org>
Message-ID: <20030824200500.GA26418@callisto.jtan.com>

On Sun, Aug 24, 2003 at 02:02:16PM -0500, Brian Danger Hicks wrote:

> > Historically, djb trolls have never succeeded on cm, and for good 
> > reason!
> 
> Are you talking about pro- or anti-?  Because I'm starting to suspect
> you weren't paying attention.

I attach a negative valence to the term 'foul stench.' So I suspected an 
anti-djb troll. 

Iirc, only myself and the esteemed Mr. Moen have ever had anything nice 
to say around here about djb.

Therefore, I stand ready to be enlightened!

-- 
Bob Bernstein   


From nick at zork.net  Mon Aug 25 15:21:11 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:44 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
Message-ID: <20030825222110.GB15722@zork.net>

I bet you this was another one of saklad's hep e-mail addresses!

----- Forwarded message from mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org -----

dhawes@vt.edu has been removed from CrackMonkey.


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From nick at zork.net  Mon Aug 25 16:26:19 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:44 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
Message-ID: <20030825232619.GK15722@zork.net>

Maybe he's switching to an EVEN BETTER ONE!

----- Forwarded message from mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org -----

dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu has been removed from CrackMonkey.


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From thesubjugator at subjugation.org  Mon Aug 25 16:59:26 2003
From: thesubjugator at subjugation.org (Lord Protector of the Port Jefferson Power Station)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:44 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20030825232619.GK15722@zork.net>
References: <20030825232619.GK15722@zork.net>
Message-ID: <1061855966.2234.61274.camel@dante>

On Mon, 2003-08-25 at 19:26, Nick Moffitt wrote:
> Maybe he's switching to an EVEN BETTER ONE!
> 
> ----- Forwarded message from mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org -----
> 
> dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu has been removed from CrackMonkey.

I suspect this is all the fault of the GPL!

No... wait, that's SCO's line.  I meant, this is all the fault of the
BPL!



From unknown at panax.com  Mon Aug 25 18:58:35 2003
From: unknown at panax.com (Patrick McFarland)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:44 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <1061855966.2234.61274.camel@dante>
References: <20030825232619.GK15722@zork.net>
	<1061855966.2234.61274.camel@dante>
Message-ID: <20030826015834.GA7144@panax.com>

On 25-Aug-2003, Lord Protector of the Port Jefferson Power Station wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-08-25 at 19:26, Nick Moffitt wrote:
> > Maybe he's switching to an EVEN BETTER ONE!
> > 
> > ----- Forwarded message from mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org -----
> > 
> > dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu has been removed from CrackMonkey.
> 
> I suspect this is all the fault of the GPL!
> 
> No... wait, that's SCO's line.  I meant, this is all the fault of the
> BPL!

Blame Canada! oh wait...

-- 
Patrick "Diablo-D3" McFarland || unknown@panax.com
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd 
all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to
repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989


From nick at zork.net  Mon Aug 25 20:42:38 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:44 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	subscription notification]
Message-ID: <20030826034238.GO15722@zork.net>

Good thing this list filters hotmail posts, or we'd soon have been
buried in bad poetry.

----- Forwarded message from mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org -----

nickia <sadboy_108@hotmail.com> has been successfully subscribed to
CrackMonkey.



----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu  Tue Aug 26 17:24:07 2003
From: dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu (Don Saklad)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:44 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [Ann.Hess@ci.boston.ma.us: RE: Public notices.
	Public hearings. Boston City Council]
Message-ID: <E19ro6Z-0003bi-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>

> Mail-from: From Ann.Hess@ci.boston.ma.us  Tue Aug 26 19:50:26 2003
> To: "'Don Saklad'" <dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu>
> Subject: RE: Public notices. Public hearings. Boston City Council
> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:04:25 -0400
> Deferred-Delivery: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 19:00:00 -0400
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
> Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
> 	  boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01C36C15.A1853300"
> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 required=5.0
> 	  tests=BAYES_20,HTML_10_20,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_FONT_FACE_ODD,
> 		ORIGINAL_MESSAGE
> 	  version=2.54
> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.54 (1.174.2.17-2003-05-11-exp)
> 
> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
> this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
> 
> - ------_=_NextPart_000_01C36C15.A1853300
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> 	  boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C36C15.A1853300"
> 
> 
> - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C36C15.A1853300
> Content-Type: text/plain
> 
>  Boston City Council
>  
> 
> 
> Dear Mr. Saklad:
> 
> I, among others, continue to receive your emails and calls regarding the
> format that you would like to receive transmission from the City Council
> regarding its activities.  As you have been repeatedly informed by me,
> members of my staff, council staff, and other individuals, the information
> provided in the courtesy emails that we send out via distribution list is a
> duplication of what is available on the City of Boston web page.  In its
> meetings and hearings, the City Council complies with public notice rules
> that require that the hearing or meeting be posted at least 48 hours in
> advance with the City Clerk.  The information contained in the hearing
> notice (committee, date, time, place, subject) is copied onto the City's web
> site.  The information distributed through the email system is yet another
> duplication.  As you are the only person who has difficulty reading the
> information as we distribute it through this additional means, I have
> removed your email addresses from the email listing so you will not have any
> further problems.  
> 
> For information on City Council meetings and hearings, please consult the
> City of Boston web page at www.cityofboston.gov
> <http://www.cityofboston.gov/citycouncil> /citycouncil for the meeting and
> hearing information from this point forward.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Ann M. Hess
> Staff Director
> 
> 
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Saklad [ mailto:dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu
> <mailto:dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu> ]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 10:18 AM
> To: ann.hess@ci.boston.ma.us; paul.koch@ci.boston.ma.us;
> dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu
> Subject: Public notices. Public hearings. Boston City Council
> 
> 
> Sent To: Candidates for City Council
> 
> Government Operations Committee  Boston City Council
> 
> Ann Hess  Staff Director  Boston City Council Offices
> 
> Gregory W. Sullivan  Massachusetts Office of the Inspector General
> 
> The Honorable William Francis Galvin
> Secretary of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts
> Public Records Division
> 
> 
> To: Government Operations Committee  Boston City Council 
> 
> 
> Alternately, make available the entire public notice on the city council
> web site and send the web link.
> 
> 
> 
> - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C36C15.A1853300
> Content-Type: text/html
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
> charset=3DUS-ASCII">
> <TITLE></TITLE>
> 
> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
> <BODY>
> <P><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
> style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; =
> mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; =
> mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><IMG=20
> height=3D121 src=3D"cid:873472718@26082003-1486" width=3D120=20
> v:shapes=3D"_x0000_i1025"></SPAN>&nbsp;<FONT face=3DAlgerian =
> size=3D5>Boston City=20
> Council<BR></FONT>&nbsp;<BR><BR><BR>Dear Mr. Saklad:<BR><BR>I, among =
> others,=20
> continue to receive your emails&nbsp;<SPAN =
> class=3D873472718-26082003>and calls=20
> </SPAN>regarding the format that you would like to receive transmission =
> from the=20
> City Council regarding its activities.&nbsp; As you have been =
> repeatedly=20
> informed by me, members of my staff, council staff, and other =
> individuals, the=20
> information provided in the&nbsp;<SPAN=20
> class=3D873472718-26082003><STRONG><EM>courtesy</EM></STRONG> =
> </SPAN>emails that=20
> we send out via distribution list is a duplication of what is available =
> on the=20
> City of Boston web page.&nbsp; In its meetings and hearings, the City =
> Council=20
> complies with public notice rules that require that the hearing or =
> meeting be=20
> posted at least 48 hours in advance with the City Clerk.&nbsp; The =
> information=20
> contained in the hearing notice (committee, date, time, place, subject) =
> is=20
> copied onto the City's web site.&nbsp; The information distributed =
> through the=20
> email system is yet another duplication.&nbsp; As you are the only =
> person who=20
> has difficulty reading the information as we distribute it through this =
> 
> additional means, I&nbsp;<SPAN class=3D873472718-26082003>have removed =
> </SPAN>your=20
> email addresses from the email listing<SPAN class=3D873472718-26082003> =
> so you=20
> will not have any further problems</SPAN>.&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR><BR>For =
> information on=20
> City Council meetings and hearings, please consult the City of Boston =
> web page=20
> at <A =
> href=3D"http://www.cityofboston.gov/citycouncil">www.cityofboston.gov<SP=
> AN=20
> class=3D873472718-26082003>/citycouncil</A></SPAN> for the&nbsp;<SPAN=20
> class=3D873472718-26082003>meeting and hearing </SPAN>information from =
> this point=20
> forward.<BR><BR>Sincerely,<BR><BR>Ann M. Hess<BR>Staff=20
> Director<BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Don Saklad [<A=20
> href=3D"mailto:dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu">mailto:dsaklad@zurich.csail=
> .mit.edu</A>]<BR>Sent:=20
> Tuesday, August 26, 2003 10:18 AM<BR>To: ann.hess@ci.boston.ma.us;=20
> paul.koch@ci.boston.ma.us;<BR>dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu<BR>Subject: =
> Public=20
> notices. Public hearings. Boston City Council<BR><BR><BR>Sent To: =
> Candidates for=20
> City Council<BR><BR>Government Operations Committee&nbsp; Boston City=20
> Council<BR><BR>Ann Hess&nbsp; Staff Director&nbsp; Boston City Council=20
> Offices<BR><BR>Gregory W. Sullivan&nbsp; Massachusetts Office of the =
> Inspector=20
> General<BR><BR>The Honorable William Francis Galvin<BR>Secretary of the =
> 
> Commonwealth of Massachusetts<BR>Public Records Division<BR><BR><BR>To: =
> 
> Government Operations Committee&nbsp; Boston City=20
> Council&nbsp;<BR><BR><BR>Alternately, make available the entire public =
> notice on=20
> the city council<BR>web site and send the web =
> link.<BR></FONT></P></BODY></HTML>
> 
> - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C36C15.A1853300--
> 
> - ------_=_NextPart_000_01C36C15.A1853300
> Content-Type: image/gif;
> 	  name="clip_image002.gif"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
> Content-Disposition: attachment;
> 	  filename="clip_image002.gif"
> Content-ID: <873472718@26082003-1486>
> 
> R0lGODdheAB5AHcAACH+GlNvZnR3YXJlOiBNaWNyb3NvZnQgT2ZmaWNlACwAAAAAeAB5AIQAAAAR
> EREiIiIzMzNERERVVVVmZmZ3d3eIiIiZmZmqqqq7u7vMzMzd3d3u7u7///8BAgMBAgMBAgMBAgMB
> AgMBAgMBAgMBAgMBAgMBAgMBAgMBAgMBAgMBAgMBAgMBAgME//DJSau9OOvNu/9gKI5kaZ5oqq5s
> 1rRwvDKFYSByrm/NQSgFwsBASIQYi51y5EgghobEIblRIAQIxGvAYCy/meerIZQODp9DoYBYFBQL
> gsTxAtsfCYHjQCSwRXFBNgUCCgl9bw53MnuKajUHCVQnhAMEBwcBNX6LMA4IBA0GAgUHXiqfChJq
> Cj4GBXRsip0ncAIDOA15Gw5dcAsMdRtuAAIJCbgPrwW0JgoEAjYEC6kVDAkFAwDb3N0AAUNtGA2E
> AQAHAGcGs80ePV4OAgQGaqcUC6Pb0QhOhglwVv4hMKANQBFhExwocKCInIF2IEoZqRGgSAVR5qId
> O4ZAAYNZDf8U9bKiwJCCfLjYUcgmAAvDBCohWgCCzMCkCQq0Bego6ZSVhxKmWVkwQOLHBSWdmJtG
> odUACaDkXZJZAZmEIAglKBCQLqmXn/gehHzgABwCRYUWYFHVpUFSbQImLZzTEYFEqqsGKLUhaQIZ
> AAWQJFkg6qmWAAH0zGn18OkDPVQuGUE6MJ09CZIWZCkQ4GY7gmyS0IRqEMnCVgnkBHhAjSzSq3Bw
> PBVF4SmDSHQSMCAAYB0FHwi6cJIZfJCEa2R5S4Ip5ZVdB0U8zjswC2kSKT4GVMdxu+yBBtcSIFY1
> 4YAAU1ZlYhKSBadlLQxvOADwyQANHCGQqSLAIAsD7W7FcQ7/BTQMIYAuBmRlxwABmFEHAoAtoBso
> 1AnwwCMKhnASTKTA8UABhP1jEAUOIGXDM2jYMUtqpRAwSwEAlESNH/jsQYA4qNSABGsPaSHJANpV
> EA8yKX5BQAAKNDBEAsLAqNk1ochjQAAJxuDAKw8EaUqJNARQh0LU/AEGOUhyUcGRmvXgGAOFxGQB
> AyXBSdhgunnwEEwH8ANnJtTodRICAbipQx6X+DDLlAtQpwsQZBU5E5MNhFinFFQgYMpHGrRCmHzr
> OAEAnKNICOQdRJwhBx4AaPaARQ+A4tkEcDIpVl9IHNNAgKC2cYygEwzQgDFJNJFJVmrc6igLDeDH
> ZpiDAXAM/1QKUGnKBXSAp4gUTMrp1jGGNAVMlRhIGElTV6j0CR/PwQBHMGYmpNFuNplylgWERQpM
> Q7YitdAxpfhFEo4PdPGmZ3BmU0Eb2QSh7p/MUEDANAw85GJwbjbxkRX9YeKPdUYEPFDHYObpBTkd
> cRBKTqde6WtHa/BKgiFFREEWZgEgwdm4BWRYkmtwOOGzboSJxRAeWTz8A1mHBOPyHESw9isODgii
> BpWnquCEDeYVFXCDMDEUBHVC3nrrP2x5kZm9wMypioRzLFAvnB4NfQEfPQQMBwB13FJitI6pMNAN
> U0swxEJNuimhFGy5zVpHElLB0L1pz/HPGPjk+R1OFETqBP8ouhhMTikFINOwCq48IY54bttQx2V0
> IM1HT0b47LYis/ulNKa3AvOC0nNcU/sE84DUQINQhXMjC4SwJEdZ/KSmIEOG6B5pSbt7cXtfbt0q
> lmBNBDxYQ3DQ7vZYfrWqSX/izaKyl2L5nVjoSTwRjE1FFfmJnJhSO8ZC1bUuQaTs6EVrwEOWj7SB
> e5lrGEz+A5Q5+CoelykBUW5BhbgwJgnTck0X3MY/vxDGfxOgxsgiFbD21UF3x/lIpOrglpgE7T+s
> WQDePjQNfhClbyOYlhrw84CtdCFPbLmHwEzzLHsx5COnMAIS6AAEx7GmhCEpEVnm4r0xzGwCBEHS
> nB72odv/kCFPOAzBQJ6imF5JYnUdy9xxJHCTYGivNR/5h/fmQRaGRJGEJmQjO6xFnvKR41L0IUJv
> DnECtbAhCFpbQGf+A7Y+XuQFHgnYl6wlNzww7XhXvCJC1IdEK5YQM0faVU7WYbajpWAA0dDajTyS
> KMvcI0kvYEgAjzOJU1yJjauEShphZYHdSfJLFHjIGg5nIZz8ARgmMECS7POATwHBkSQSS+6q80oL
> fIKNbCBPyTAAzTQisSqve9ynKHCWNzTwAzuqBmYGEDSoCEl9JBodHnbZC0Mp42FPgQ7Y5tAUElUt
> ISSaF0BqsIpEWaEGS7sAUciwMwncABhga2cVAtO+hpIF/zGbgI4y7UMObJzinLvcVVUqwAfETCFa
> WjFEidZQRg8cogavCY4zewAOeTqsAjRxAxBqEJIsLCQT52mOJYohMzcEk43PCOOFSKqFOjJgnFlQ
> Zkn8sEteqIFu53lDzfAREvK1TQo1aKqS1lCEjpzkBtiw1AGskIWBRKIkapCHjq7yAhOx0xSqUBIV
> XbOqBKmlR2wiA2/a1QFQnPVX7PnBGBODkCyIzAo3ApEbBBCAPIHiDAIIhqUI1RIbEIQgO9wIUfhQ
> lI/xQw3YCAIPW+WAp/yDIKzBRtTiAYs0JAgTbIpC6ODwIGMCKags88GNoCFVt6amJeAwhlqlUihS
> lKIiQP9qBRCIQA9wWCIKeUpjEvD2VgDoMhIDcdEHiPC3PJgiLk4YHkUlUBE1ROEJt/ADYwKCLgn1
> 5wyWCplZf6BMICkSSAmzAYUOYQjTUDYZARuC2BQww1H+gysR1MArsBWN1TizYE9cBVgxUdlS2OVh
> nHFuUW7ghxJXJB2WqLBnD3CGkzp2K1RC5TcSwyAoJMZN0eoYiLJhSpcCpiKJCUaqiJIq7SGtRFrA
> h4Qi9Z+TBMQuliJCko6SLCYHxwdBwMYr9AKKUTyhCZ9IRYjAYxJlUAAZ+ImDJV7FAc5kcW1I2p6Z
> 5yAEIHmWHti5wRowsZGHfkc3wdDNP9hJDx9UuaNR60//otAXCR/kaRSa8AFr2HFWv5yhjiAoCzg6
> 9gxo3sNtqbGEdZdSkMQ8DDHbsDOIGXSe65I2MZRNhzm+AY1twPrA8kB1ZemlhgzfIGLF5IA4jHpN
> bHj6YNno0i2WAWTKtgSVxuAMKmlsCWgEoUXFaAlXst0SaPwAGwAuSs7ghGNAYfkNbMhEQvHQ6x7w
> qznHRipJAgbieSBpHkTYRIkfdouWqCEUZ9mND+TaB/ZMV45Fi0IPbMDm2B5IQgliw5c58AxoMHge
> xkBtBrrQCzW9ARcEDZ7MWFODFtvlrbcAcMkvUZE+dETcAD/EATEBREGVxLtbkcctWtaBW4FitQNR
> RWp8/0Mi8eEZkUe6BL7Z0J/odSFWbIJGqTGB1pIExy1rHUwr9NGZhiN1Ne0b1wiYMoGg5xYTvaQe
> NfyBDcVe7Ab7Q9uzkIFKINUFPVZA2zqutKfoTdkFcAA7G4/1gWeVHX68FNIUQ9LQFsoSPMHADHl0
> oRtdQBxMY7EXnCT5P857z2U9MESwexhvitcMJz9Ils14EPexPY5sYlmXInw3NDcCwyMCm54AI9iL
> dcfWMYow7Aj+MTqidA0zGUjFWGQJJjhpb0d6DI7iPE+Hr6xu8qdQHAirEpcEOaVVSU5PBwjKWv60
> allJ3UaEL3IKAooFjsHSRfn+9xGQRP4a0zOE2D5gzv+1tv1CoMAk57QB/6EdUxB00xAoz9RVHBBB
> mIJMtFMiaRN5OCBHQQMeCBESkQcCeqEqKAIdhaALelB6v2ETNSAFhcJgJRJLdJQCRkYClZRp7qQW
> gsZBtlAIpgczERMFP+AlqhAtGYQXIiAeRQBo44Q1GzUlq4UBV0Jit0EPerFbDKYFeyWEaeAGPiVD
> rBEJ5KBeI7cBlIVal3AidpEE4CEF62eFmQIM2tEKpwIiYZZcVYUBf+NYZCUJXoI77WEBLHUeD1NX
> 9OAbe9A8iVJovqEZU9BDkRArWfAPTlAdaQgr4yYarJIFagGC4tUB1BUdXdFM15AP5HcBiREwEeIs
> F2L/IeMEHZYCIREjIRbSAFBVDKwRCjKUiWUxehcQBUDCJFqIGR8TBD3GAfGQCTvBIIrAF7TCPhdA
> WfjAThACSamCGFXSLLmjCRJwCz1kAACAA+QxICk1QxmwBpOBh0QwEdJSESHwK5pQDLCkFi30P3N4
> jUiSGrfhXayRKv+xDSnCYHXgjS3RQ1fiTBLQGxNgBASZfNChHYdgE7fRKoUGEyIgLDgoBqnSD7yB
> ixMgD9c4BPRBipsnCvaYAOPUTPiBSj1EFpSFH94YNfmQIR/CTHXVGTfwEHnSCy+jFYRRETQAP8aA
> B572VHIAi1yQKspgIaEgFg3DioITlAMyLU+FBvMB/xS+8ZRXIU9OAA2OGCgE4Suh8zCXExFEUU6K
> co97EmhZsWd8EAUNYVm+SA/YNA/B8m/c6F8XYh9TEg1cMVzbEBjKdAFfgUliwQfgFTohQAiFIASO
> ggVtYBciGYmdEIMkkiRtI0MqgUqEwAe+d2ZToYptw2LI9CFbooYYUF1YcghywA8fokADOAKKFJNP
> hTGhcgPhUgposIpX8hOBqBt5kih8FjARZg+455IpFRRkNmQ++QnCOXz2oWXm4Ta+Yj7rF2fzwAyN
> FkhP9SFxYGydYSFaQyIdeY/YQHhzwGJtqBBNgxSDs08ngAT0oCTOJZKt0AOkQAZvMpIWMVp7xgCr
> wf8Hb+AFkLEbgrcKcTEH3jUfSyMev/ApCrErj6YN4ukBZcEgziIeUrAT6FUygWYNM6QkRjBKZZEg
> +4ku1+gI2igMglU19jiSGUCJT7FWcpAghwAcJqAbQPA60TAN+zA0UUM8FNAgV0JHVEdy18lfHXMg
> V8KZDtUFgUIY3gWLDlhZ8UM0eOOKfHkfm1YCZDIFA1AS0iZTh7AHpNBDN9EDl2Obb4AHryAyJ/II
> qiUIurAy0RAEmvAGQViViJE2xDMhfFdtqJSZ3JRdAcE3sfMpjSYW7OSYnYCaZ+EGzNBaUVAjznUg
> KOAcZYBP+JENNlgW9GmFV3IdgMIkURNtSDBiq0n/AvSAheYRDT4gHsrUH6IANQ/KBBH5nKvQBAy2
> VmgQCrgKGPMQj6aaWZWABZnwHQ3iEfl1UTbll5xAYo8hP2wyECCQBMSlPW1wDmzAH4XADwzyMF5H
> AhEDbStDBTKUJg50FvOiAdjQTJjpEbCAJfYojKWQLERwICJymsMyCtUGDUowHcIgkk+SB/SgmEuI
> U8ywGsp0FtPgli21cUHwg3RgMejIRvYBZceAqIUEE+RAWBETI9KHD16QbhkSNVxgDKFQM2mhF1yQ
> rP1kBL5iVHhoU6tkK/uaCd/QL5hxC9soR8zAqngVE71wO4sxC9AnKBHzoWwUgoEnB4qWYF5JDkoQ
> /54K4aAJYik4Gxi6wRlukSU3EEkpEEd38ocAYQW98QkdQQqA8W8xsgQIsVbX4IccGRfhFzo5cytU
> 5adC8lqdkas9AAu6oY3cSANTsBuY0ZedsFtk8ApxYQ5JcYYlwU4WglAAk3zpVLK7QVk0wEoPdnpT
> 4CJRI0ftUDA/QQNHograGAq78gSpgwdnECOAASJ3Fhgg2ZWMgi7bEkdAABiKUAoKyQznca6LIJJ2
> wWXKdAvEByFtUidqoX8xQkZZwh9KghQdI5s1g3OhA5UCUQxUIF2JEgr6eQkDOyYgto2WcjM3Qh3a
> WAi3sTbtylVyUHGrQligsCrQEa+5wWHF8JVncP8bAjgd7AQRoEUlyJAqEDJ5FzkhTdUqNYqBqxEK
> WdtD2fpKW1cay+FQz3AWiKsN3QoGQ5cYe5muWuEEMEIlXXAM1FAieYIHjHTCQ7E7/5A6qfYVa6AK
> zDNZ8+AHsboInzAPLFMuElsKUPgNWSchgfp0RNSIFXsSs1anfBAwlfA+v/W9VnhZzZNy5mAK5mFr
> RRAMaeM2E/gTpZZ6/qAsHDGT2XEGdnsHKDidwnqXRbFrs8IZ3vANcUxrOKILcFOS39BAA9ERZ3wH
> xJUQkWATT8AHmdVLEqJWPlyx1yJHmAAkdQYj+ui5ohkG55FAbsOfFZGsJQKR3GSJH6YnXPKcpID/
> dpOcfMb0Cr0BVzibiOWRBVwQiGtVkC0hOp3zA9FyCnzgfKVMgMpUA/TAUtBmNMp0DK/gB1Srka3y
> BuFJWRYxH5ysFojRx3iRnXkAbSYFj38jDz4TMXbBBs/2MIBBYZ1VFBa7y34JRiG2lUfZKAZBUanq
> B3L1D9fAIIjBb+8jzeZsAaSAC/2LD94WHNt6HvFBD4pKCk4cHPk8Aq2Amr+SILcxDwDmB3WXGv+D
> VmSFBvhQElWY0B8QD8sAYJdTKgdyG/1bIL3skxLLhBwNAk7gMeOrCgP3HY82Op8zDYmSEERJenOg
> sis9Dip7BcxwWQcJKy1XEaYUzEdi1Dfc04onNyQRy0/Usi7r4SKvwxbe5qtM3QH+MIRC8J+Zk5xZ
> zcslgDBhHcVKVdZondZqvdZs3dZu/dYPEAEAOw==
> 
> ------_=_NextPart_000_01C36C15.A1853300--


From nick at zork.net  Wed Aug 27 11:50:57 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:44 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
Message-ID: <20030827185057.GK22156@zork.net>

You geflunkt.

----- Forwarded message from mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org -----

nihraguk@geflunkt.ath.cx has been removed from CrackMonkey.


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From claviola at ax.net.br  Wed Aug 27 13:10:41 2003
From: claviola at ax.net.br (Carlos Laviola)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:44 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [Ann.Hess@ci.boston.ma.us: RE: Public notices.
	Public hearings. Boston City Council]
In-Reply-To: <E19ro6Z-0003bi-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
References: <E19ro6Z-0003bi-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <20030827201040.GA22622@alternex.com.br>

LET IT GO, DON
FUCK THE BPL, BUY YOUR HARRY POTTER BOOKS AT A LOCAL BORDERS INSTEAD
SHEESH

On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 08:24:07PM -0400, Don Saklad wrote:
> > Mail-from: From Ann.Hess@ci.boston.ma.us  Tue Aug 26 19:50:26 2003
> > To: "'Don Saklad'" <dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu>
> > Subject: RE: Public notices. Public hearings. Boston City Council
> > Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:04:25 -0400
> > Deferred-Delivery: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 19:00:00 -0400
> > MIME-Version: 1.0
> > X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
> > Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
> > 	  boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01C36C15.A1853300"
> > X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 required=5.0
> > 	  tests=BAYES_20,HTML_10_20,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_FONT_FACE_ODD,
> > 		ORIGINAL_MESSAGE
> > 	  version=2.54
> > X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.54 (1.174.2.17-2003-05-11-exp)
> > 
> > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
> > this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
> > 
> > - ------_=_NextPart_000_01C36C15.A1853300
> > Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> > 	  boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C36C15.A1853300"
> > 
> > 
> > - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C36C15.A1853300
> > Content-Type: text/plain
> > 
> >  Boston City Council
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > Dear Mr. Saklad:
> > 
> > I, among others, continue to receive your emails and calls regarding the
> > format that you would like to receive transmission from the City Council
> > regarding its activities.  As you have been repeatedly informed by me,
> > members of my staff, council staff, and other individuals, the information
> > provided in the courtesy emails that we send out via distribution list is a
> > duplication of what is available on the City of Boston web page.  In its
> > meetings and hearings, the City Council complies with public notice rules
> > that require that the hearing or meeting be posted at least 48 hours in
> > advance with the City Clerk.  The information contained in the hearing
> > notice (committee, date, time, place, subject) is copied onto the City's web
> > site.  The information distributed through the email system is yet another
> > duplication.  As you are the only person who has difficulty reading the
> > information as we distribute it through this additional means, I have
> > removed your email addresses from the email listing so you will not have any
> > further problems.  
> > 
> > For information on City Council meetings and hearings, please consult the
> > City of Boston web page at www.cityofboston.gov
> > <http://www.cityofboston.gov/citycouncil> /citycouncil for the meeting and
> > hearing information from this point forward.
> > 
> > Sincerely,
> > 
> > Ann M. Hess
> > Staff Director
> > 
> > 
> > - -----Original Message-----
> > From: Don Saklad [ mailto:dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu
> > <mailto:dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu> ]
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 10:18 AM
> > To: ann.hess@ci.boston.ma.us; paul.koch@ci.boston.ma.us;
> > dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu
> > Subject: Public notices. Public hearings. Boston City Council
> > 
> > 
> > Sent To: Candidates for City Council
> > 
> > Government Operations Committee  Boston City Council
> > 
> > Ann Hess  Staff Director  Boston City Council Offices
> > 
> > Gregory W. Sullivan  Massachusetts Office of the Inspector General
> > 
> > The Honorable William Francis Galvin
> > Secretary of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts
> > Public Records Division
> > 
> > 
> > To: Government Operations Committee  Boston City Council 
> > 
> > 
> > Alternately, make available the entire public notice on the city council
> > web site and send the web link.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C36C15.A1853300
> > Content-Type: text/html
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> > 
> > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> > <HTML><HEAD>
> > <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
> > charset=3DUS-ASCII">
> > <TITLE></TITLE>
> > 
> > <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
> > <BODY>
> > <P><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
> > style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; =
> > mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; =
> > mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><IMG=20
> > height=3D121 src=3D"cid:873472718@26082003-1486" width=3D120=20
> > v:shapes=3D"_x0000_i1025"></SPAN>&nbsp;<FONT face=3DAlgerian =
> > size=3D5>Boston City=20
> > Council<BR></FONT>&nbsp;<BR><BR><BR>Dear Mr. Saklad:<BR><BR>I, among =
> > others,=20
> > continue to receive your emails&nbsp;<SPAN =
> > class=3D873472718-26082003>and calls=20
> > </SPAN>regarding the format that you would like to receive transmission =
> > from the=20
> > City Council regarding its activities.&nbsp; As you have been =
> > repeatedly=20
> > informed by me, members of my staff, council staff, and other =
> > individuals, the=20
> > information provided in the&nbsp;<SPAN=20
> > class=3D873472718-26082003><STRONG><EM>courtesy</EM></STRONG> =
> > </SPAN>emails that=20
> > we send out via distribution list is a duplication of what is available =
> > on the=20
> > City of Boston web page.&nbsp; In its meetings and hearings, the City =
> > Council=20
> > complies with public notice rules that require that the hearing or =
> > meeting be=20
> > posted at least 48 hours in advance with the City Clerk.&nbsp; The =
> > information=20
> > contained in the hearing notice (committee, date, time, place, subject) =
> > is=20
> > copied onto the City's web site.&nbsp; The information distributed =
> > through the=20
> > email system is yet another duplication.&nbsp; As you are the only =
> > person who=20
> > has difficulty reading the information as we distribute it through this =
> > 
> > additional means, I&nbsp;<SPAN class=3D873472718-26082003>have removed =
> > </SPAN>your=20
> > email addresses from the email listing<SPAN class=3D873472718-26082003> =
> > so you=20
> > will not have any further problems</SPAN>.&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR><BR>For =
> > information on=20
> > City Council meetings and hearings, please consult the City of Boston =
> > web page=20
> > at <A =
> > href=3D"http://www.cityofboston.gov/citycouncil">www.cityofboston.gov<SP=
> > AN=20
> > class=3D873472718-26082003>/citycouncil</A></SPAN> for the&nbsp;<SPAN=20
> > class=3D873472718-26082003>meeting and hearing </SPAN>information from =
> > this point=20
> > forward.<BR><BR>Sincerely,<BR><BR>Ann M. Hess<BR>Staff=20
> > Director<BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Don Saklad [<A=20
> > href=3D"mailto:dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu">mailto:dsaklad@zurich.csail=
> > .mit.edu</A>]<BR>Sent:=20
> > Tuesday, August 26, 2003 10:18 AM<BR>To: ann.hess@ci.boston.ma.us;=20
> > paul.koch@ci.boston.ma.us;<BR>dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu<BR>Subject: =
> > Public=20
> > notices. Public hearings. Boston City Council<BR><BR><BR>Sent To: =
> > Candidates for=20
> > City Council<BR><BR>Government Operations Committee&nbsp; Boston City=20
> > Council<BR><BR>Ann Hess&nbsp; Staff Director&nbsp; Boston City Council=20
> > Offices<BR><BR>Gregory W. Sullivan&nbsp; Massachusetts Office of the =
> > Inspector=20
> > General<BR><BR>The Honorable William Francis Galvin<BR>Secretary of the =
> > 
> > Commonwealth of Massachusetts<BR>Public Records Division<BR><BR><BR>To: =
> > 
> > Government Operations Committee&nbsp; Boston City=20
> > Council&nbsp;<BR><BR><BR>Alternately, make available the entire public =
> > notice on=20
> > the city council<BR>web site and send the web =
> > link.<BR></FONT></P></BODY></HTML>
> > 
> > - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C36C15.A1853300--
> > 
> > - ------_=_NextPart_000_01C36C15.A1853300
> > Content-Type: image/gif;
> > 	  name="clip_image002.gif"
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
> > Content-Disposition: attachment;
> > 	  filename="clip_image002.gif"
> > Content-ID: <873472718@26082003-1486>
> > 
> > R0lGODdheAB5AHcAACH+GlNvZnR3YXJlOiBNaWNyb3NvZnQgT2ZmaWNlACwAAAAAeAB5AIQAAAAR
> > EREiIiIzMzNERERVVVVmZmZ3d3eIiIiZmZmqqqq7u7vMzMzd3d3u7u7///8BAgMBAgMBAgMBAgMB
> > AgMBAgMBAgMBAgMBAgMBAgMBAgMBAgMBAgMBAgMBAgMBAgME//DJSau9OOvNu/9gKI5kaZ5oqq5s
> > 1rRwvDKFYSByrm/NQSgFwsBASIQYi51y5EgghobEIblRIAQIxGvAYCy/meerIZQODp9DoYBYFBQL
> > gsTxAtsfCYHjQCSwRXFBNgUCCgl9bw53MnuKajUHCVQnhAMEBwcBNX6LMA4IBA0GAgUHXiqfChJq
> > Cj4GBXRsip0ncAIDOA15Gw5dcAsMdRtuAAIJCbgPrwW0JgoEAjYEC6kVDAkFAwDb3N0AAUNtGA2E
> > AQAHAGcGs80ePV4OAgQGaqcUC6Pb0QhOhglwVv4hMKANQBFhExwocKCInIF2IEoZqRGgSAVR5qId
> > O4ZAAYNZDf8U9bKiwJCCfLjYUcgmAAvDBCohWgCCzMCkCQq0Bego6ZSVhxKmWVkwQOLHBSWdmJtG
> > odUACaDkXZJZAZmEIAglKBCQLqmXn/gehHzgABwCRYUWYFHVpUFSbQImLZzTEYFEqqsGKLUhaQIZ
> > AAWQJFkg6qmWAAH0zGn18OkDPVQuGUE6MJ09CZIWZCkQ4GY7gmyS0IRqEMnCVgnkBHhAjSzSq3Bw
> > PBVF4SmDSHQSMCAAYB0FHwi6cJIZfJCEa2R5S4Ip5ZVdB0U8zjswC2kSKT4GVMdxu+yBBtcSIFY1
> > 4YAAU1ZlYhKSBadlLQxvOADwyQANHCGQqSLAIAsD7W7FcQ7/BTQMIYAuBmRlxwABmFEHAoAtoBso
> > 1AnwwCMKhnASTKTA8UABhP1jEAUOIGXDM2jYMUtqpRAwSwEAlESNH/jsQYA4qNSABGsPaSHJANpV
> > EA8yKX5BQAAKNDBEAsLAqNk1ochjQAAJxuDAKw8EaUqJNARQh0LU/AEGOUhyUcGRmvXgGAOFxGQB
> > AyXBSdhgunnwEEwH8ANnJtTodRICAbipQx6X+DDLlAtQpwsQZBU5E5MNhFinFFQgYMpHGrRCmHzr
> > OAEAnKNICOQdRJwhBx4AaPaARQ+A4tkEcDIpVl9IHNNAgKC2cYygEwzQgDFJNJFJVmrc6igLDeDH
> > ZpiDAXAM/1QKUGnKBXSAp4gUTMrp1jGGNAVMlRhIGElTV6j0CR/PwQBHMGYmpNFuNplylgWERQpM
> > Q7YitdAxpfhFEo4PdPGmZ3BmU0Eb2QSh7p/MUEDANAw85GJwbjbxkRX9YeKPdUYEPFDHYObpBTkd
> > cRBKTqde6WtHa/BKgiFFREEWZgEgwdm4BWRYkmtwOOGzboSJxRAeWTz8A1mHBOPyHESw9isODgii
> > BpWnquCEDeYVFXCDMDEUBHVC3nrrP2x5kZm9wMypioRzLFAvnB4NfQEfPQQMBwB13FJitI6pMNAN
> > U0swxEJNuimhFGy5zVpHElLB0L1pz/HPGPjk+R1OFETqBP8ouhhMTikFINOwCq48IY54bttQx2V0
> > IM1HT0b47LYis/ulNKa3AvOC0nNcU/sE84DUQINQhXMjC4SwJEdZ/KSmIEOG6B5pSbt7cXtfbt0q
> > lmBNBDxYQ3DQ7vZYfrWqSX/izaKyl2L5nVjoSTwRjE1FFfmJnJhSO8ZC1bUuQaTs6EVrwEOWj7SB
> > e5lrGEz+A5Q5+CoelykBUW5BhbgwJgnTck0X3MY/vxDGfxOgxsgiFbD21UF3x/lIpOrglpgE7T+s
> > WQDePjQNfhClbyOYlhrw84CtdCFPbLmHwEzzLHsx5COnMAIS6AAEx7GmhCEpEVnm4r0xzGwCBEHS
> > nB72odv/kCFPOAzBQJ6imF5JYnUdy9xxJHCTYGivNR/5h/fmQRaGRJGEJmQjO6xFnvKR41L0IUJv
> > DnECtbAhCFpbQGf+A7Y+XuQFHgnYl6wlNzww7XhXvCJC1IdEK5YQM0faVU7WYbajpWAA0dDajTyS
> > KMvcI0kvYEgAjzOJU1yJjauEShphZYHdSfJLFHjIGg5nIZz8ARgmMECS7POATwHBkSQSS+6q80oL
> > fIKNbCBPyTAAzTQisSqve9ynKHCWNzTwAzuqBmYGEDSoCEl9JBodHnbZC0Mp42FPgQ7Y5tAUElUt
> > ISSaF0BqsIpEWaEGS7sAUciwMwncABhga2cVAtO+hpIF/zGbgI4y7UMObJzinLvcVVUqwAfETCFa
> > WjFEidZQRg8cogavCY4zewAOeTqsAjRxAxBqEJIsLCQT52mOJYohMzcEk43PCOOFSKqFOjJgnFlQ
> > Zkn8sEteqIFu53lDzfAREvK1TQo1aKqS1lCEjpzkBtiw1AGskIWBRKIkapCHjq7yAhOx0xSqUBIV
> > XbOqBKmlR2wiA2/a1QFQnPVX7PnBGBODkCyIzAo3ApEbBBCAPIHiDAIIhqUI1RIbEIQgO9wIUfhQ
> > lI/xQw3YCAIPW+WAp/yDIKzBRtTiAYs0JAgTbIpC6ODwIGMCKags88GNoCFVt6amJeAwhlqlUihS
> > lKIiQP9qBRCIQA9wWCIKeUpjEvD2VgDoMhIDcdEHiPC3PJgiLk4YHkUlUBE1ROEJt/ADYwKCLgn1
> > 5wyWCplZf6BMICkSSAmzAYUOYQjTUDYZARuC2BQww1H+gysR1MArsBWN1TizYE9cBVgxUdlS2OVh
> > nHFuUW7ghxJXJB2WqLBnD3CGkzp2K1RC5TcSwyAoJMZN0eoYiLJhSpcCpiKJCUaqiJIq7SGtRFrA
> > h4Qi9Z+TBMQuliJCko6SLCYHxwdBwMYr9AKKUTyhCZ9IRYjAYxJlUAAZ+ImDJV7FAc5kcW1I2p6Z
> > 5yAEIHmWHti5wRowsZGHfkc3wdDNP9hJDx9UuaNR60//otAXCR/kaRSa8AFr2HFWv5yhjiAoCzg6
> > 9gxo3sNtqbGEdZdSkMQ8DDHbsDOIGXSe65I2MZRNhzm+AY1twPrA8kB1ZemlhgzfIGLF5IA4jHpN
> > bHj6YNno0i2WAWTKtgSVxuAMKmlsCWgEoUXFaAlXst0SaPwAGwAuSs7ghGNAYfkNbMhEQvHQ6x7w
> > qznHRipJAgbieSBpHkTYRIkfdouWqCEUZ9mND+TaB/ZMV45Fi0IPbMDm2B5IQgliw5c58AxoMHge
> > xkBtBrrQCzW9ARcEDZ7MWFODFtvlrbcAcMkvUZE+dETcAD/EATEBREGVxLtbkcctWtaBW4FitQNR
> > RWp8/0Mi8eEZkUe6BL7Z0J/odSFWbIJGqTGB1pIExy1rHUwr9NGZhiN1Ne0b1wiYMoGg5xYTvaQe
> > NfyBDcVe7Ab7Q9uzkIFKINUFPVZA2zqutKfoTdkFcAA7G4/1gWeVHX68FNIUQ9LQFsoSPMHADHl0
> > oRtdQBxMY7EXnCT5P857z2U9MESwexhvitcMJz9Ils14EPexPY5sYlmXInw3NDcCwyMCm54AI9iL
> > dcfWMYow7Aj+MTqidA0zGUjFWGQJJjhpb0d6DI7iPE+Hr6xu8qdQHAirEpcEOaVVSU5PBwjKWv60
> > allJ3UaEL3IKAooFjsHSRfn+9xGQRP4a0zOE2D5gzv+1tv1CoMAk57QB/6EdUxB00xAoz9RVHBBB
> > mIJMtFMiaRN5OCBHQQMeCBESkQcCeqEqKAIdhaALelB6v2ETNSAFhcJgJRJLdJQCRkYClZRp7qQW
> > gsZBtlAIpgczERMFP+AlqhAtGYQXIiAeRQBo44Q1GzUlq4UBV0Jit0EPerFbDKYFeyWEaeAGPiVD
> > rBEJ5KBeI7cBlIVal3AidpEE4CEF62eFmQIM2tEKpwIiYZZcVYUBf+NYZCUJXoI77WEBLHUeD1NX
> > 9OAbe9A8iVJovqEZU9BDkRArWfAPTlAdaQgr4yYarJIFagGC4tUB1BUdXdFM15AP5HcBiREwEeIs
> > F2L/IeMEHZYCIREjIRbSAFBVDKwRCjKUiWUxehcQBUDCJFqIGR8TBD3GAfGQCTvBIIrAF7TCPhdA
> > WfjAThACSamCGFXSLLmjCRJwCz1kAACAA+QxICk1QxmwBpOBh0QwEdJSESHwK5pQDLCkFi30P3N4
> > jUiSGrfhXayRKv+xDSnCYHXgjS3RQ1fiTBLQGxNgBASZfNChHYdgE7fRKoUGEyIgLDgoBqnSD7yB
> > ixMgD9c4BPRBipsnCvaYAOPUTPiBSj1EFpSFH94YNfmQIR/CTHXVGTfwEHnSCy+jFYRRETQAP8aA
> > B572VHIAi1yQKspgIaEgFg3DioITlAMyLU+FBvMB/xS+8ZRXIU9OAA2OGCgE4Suh8zCXExFEUU6K
> > co97EmhZsWd8EAUNYVm+SA/YNA/B8m/c6F8XYh9TEg1cMVzbEBjKdAFfgUliwQfgFTohQAiFIASO
> > ggVtYBciGYmdEIMkkiRtI0MqgUqEwAe+d2ZToYptw2LI9CFbooYYUF1YcghywA8fokADOAKKFJNP
> > hTGhcgPhUgposIpX8hOBqBt5kih8FjARZg+455IpFRRkNmQ++QnCOXz2oWXm4Ta+Yj7rF2fzwAyN
> > FkhP9SFxYGydYSFaQyIdeY/YQHhzwGJtqBBNgxSDs08ngAT0oCTOJZKt0AOkQAZvMpIWMVp7xgCr
> > wf8Hb+AFkLEbgrcKcTEH3jUfSyMev/ApCrErj6YN4ukBZcEgziIeUrAT6FUygWYNM6QkRjBKZZEg
> > +4ku1+gI2igMglU19jiSGUCJT7FWcpAghwAcJqAbQPA60TAN+zA0UUM8FNAgV0JHVEdy18lfHXMg
> > V8KZDtUFgUIY3gWLDlhZ8UM0eOOKfHkfm1YCZDIFA1AS0iZTh7AHpNBDN9EDl2Obb4AHryAyJ/II
> > qiUIurAy0RAEmvAGQViViJE2xDMhfFdtqJSZ3JRdAcE3sfMpjSYW7OSYnYCaZ+EGzNBaUVAjznUg
> > KOAcZYBP+JENNlgW9GmFV3IdgMIkURNtSDBiq0n/AvSAheYRDT4gHsrUH6IANQ/KBBH5nKvQBAy2
> > VmgQCrgKGPMQj6aaWZWABZnwHQ3iEfl1UTbll5xAYo8hP2wyECCQBMSlPW1wDmzAH4XADwzyMF5H
> > AhEDbStDBTKUJg50FvOiAdjQTJjpEbCAJfYojKWQLERwICJymsMyCtUGDUowHcIgkk+SB/SgmEuI
> > U8ywGsp0FtPgli21cUHwg3RgMejIRvYBZceAqIUEE+RAWBETI9KHD16QbhkSNVxgDKFQM2mhF1yQ
> > rP1kBL5iVHhoU6tkK/uaCd/QL5hxC9soR8zAqngVE71wO4sxC9AnKBHzoWwUgoEnB4qWYF5JDkoQ
> > /54K4aAJYik4Gxi6wRlukSU3EEkpEEd38ocAYQW98QkdQQqA8W8xsgQIsVbX4IccGRfhFzo5cytU
> > 5adC8lqdkas9AAu6oY3cSANTsBuY0ZedsFtk8ApxYQ5JcYYlwU4WglAAk3zpVLK7QVk0wEoPdnpT
> > 4CJRI0ftUDA/QQNHograGAq78gSpgwdnECOAASJ3Fhgg2ZWMgi7bEkdAABiKUAoKyQznca6LIJJ2
> > wWXKdAvEByFtUidqoX8xQkZZwh9KghQdI5s1g3OhA5UCUQxUIF2JEgr6eQkDOyYgto2WcjM3Qh3a
> > WAi3sTbtylVyUHGrQligsCrQEa+5wWHF8JVncP8bAjgd7AQRoEUlyJAqEDJ5FzkhTdUqNYqBqxEK
> > WdtD2fpKW1cay+FQz3AWiKsN3QoGQ5cYe5muWuEEMEIlXXAM1FAieYIHjHTCQ7E7/5A6qfYVa6AK
> > zDNZ8+AHsboInzAPLFMuElsKUPgNWSchgfp0RNSIFXsSs1anfBAwlfA+v/W9VnhZzZNy5mAK5mFr
> > RRAMaeM2E/gTpZZ6/qAsHDGT2XEGdnsHKDidwnqXRbFrs8IZ3vANcUxrOKILcFOS39BAA9ERZ3wH
> > xJUQkWATT8AHmdVLEqJWPlyx1yJHmAAkdQYj+ui5ohkG55FAbsOfFZGsJQKR3GSJH6YnXPKcpID/
> > dpOcfMb0Cr0BVzibiOWRBVwQiGtVkC0hOp3zA9FyCnzgfKVMgMpUA/TAUtBmNMp0DK/gB1Srka3y
> > BuFJWRYxH5ysFojRx3iRnXkAbSYFj38jDz4TMXbBBs/2MIBBYZ1VFBa7y34JRiG2lUfZKAZBUanq
> > B3L1D9fAIIjBb+8jzeZsAaSAC/2LD94WHNt6HvFBD4pKCk4cHPk8Aq2Amr+SILcxDwDmB3WXGv+D
> > VmSFBvhQElWY0B8QD8sAYJdTKgdyG/1bIL3skxLLhBwNAk7gMeOrCgP3HY82Op8zDYmSEERJenOg
> > sis9Dip7BcxwWQcJKy1XEaYUzEdi1Dfc04onNyQRy0/Usi7r4SKvwxbe5qtM3QH+MIRC8J+Zk5xZ
> > zcslgDBhHcVKVdZondZqvdZs3dZu/dYPEAEAOw==
> > 
> > ------_=_NextPart_000_01C36C15.A1853300--
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks
> http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey

-- 
Carlos Laviola <claviola@ax.net.br>
AlterNex S/A - (21) 2530-7007


From dep at linuxandmain.com  Wed Aug 27 18:25:16 2003
From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:44 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [Ann.Hess@ci.boston.ma.us: RE: Public notices.
	Public hearings. Boston City Council]
In-Reply-To: <20030827201040.GA22622@alternex.com.br>
References: <E19ro6Z-0003bi-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>
	<20030827201040.GA22622@alternex.com.br>
Message-ID: <200308272125.16179.dep@linuxandmain.com>

quoth Carlos Laviola:
| LET IT GO, DON
| FUCK THE BPL, BUY YOUR HARRY POTTER BOOKS AT A LOCAL BORDERS INSTEAD
| SHEESH

hey, cut him some slack. everyone needs an art form, and he's working on 
becoming the very best letter-to-the-editor, nose-and-ear-hair crackpot 
ever. and i have every confidence in him. age discrimination works both 
ways, y'know.
-- 
dep

Truth is so obscure in these times and falsehood so established, 
that unless we love the truth, we cannot know it. - Blaise Pascal


From nick at zork.net  Wed Aug 27 19:51:23 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:44 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Tel pere tel fils
Message-ID: <20030828025123.GQ22156@zork.net>

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/030824/168/5291f.html&e=9
http://www.spitfirelist.com/arnold.jpg


-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From nick at zork.net  Wed Aug 27 20:18:33 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:44 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] The RIAA
Message-ID: <20030828031833.GR22156@zork.net>

http://www.nafam.com/RIAA.jpg

Recording Artists Safety Guide to the Beach

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From vipvop-cm at musesick.org  Thu Aug 28 10:48:10 2003
From: vipvop-cm at musesick.org (MC MeatFlaps)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:44 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Tel pere tel fils
In-Reply-To: <20030828025123.GQ22156@zork.net>
References: <20030828025123.GQ22156@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20030828174810.GA19958@gregh.ilan.cogent.net>

On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 07:51:23PM -0700, Nick Moffitt wrote:
> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/030824/168/5291f.html&e=9
> http://www.spitfirelist.com/arnold.jpg

As long as we're talking about Arnold:
http://thesmokinggun.com/archive/arnoldinter1.html

It's an interview arnold did with some adult magazine in 1977, here's
a choice quote:
"...once, in Gold's... there was a black girl who came out naked.
Everbody jumped on her and took her upstairs, where we all got
together"


From jv at zork.net  Thu Aug 28 12:30:01 2003
From: jv at zork.net (Juggler Vain)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:44 2005
Subject: Creative Commons: [!CrackMonkey!] The RIAA
In-Reply-To: <20030828031833.GR22156@zork.net>
References: <20030828031833.GR22156@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20030828193001.GC30200@zork.net>

begin  Nick Moffitt quotation:
> http://www.nafam.com/RIAA.jpg
> Recording Artists Safety Guide to the Beach

Recording Artists Enjoy Actually Creative License Playing on:

[creativecommons.org].  -jv

> Support your droogs!

p.s... bring them home safe



From henrik at enberg.org  Thu Aug 28 12:22:53 2003
From: henrik at enberg.org (Henrik Enberg)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:44 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: Tel pere tel fils
In-Reply-To: <20030828025123.GQ22156@zork.net> (Nick Moffitt's message of
	"Wed, 27 Aug 2003 19:51:23 -0700")
References: <20030828025123.GQ22156@zork.net>
Message-ID: <87oey9oacy.fsf@enberg.org>

Nick Moffitt <nick@zork.net> writes:

> http://www.spitfirelist.com/arnold.jpg

http://bartcop.com/arnie-boner2.jpg


From dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu  Sat Aug 30 01:07:14 2003
From: dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu (Don Saklad)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:44 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Boston City Council records management
Message-ID: <E19t0lO-00058d-00@nestle.ai.mit.edu>

Boston City Hall makes it more difficult rather than making less difficult
getting public information about the public hearings. Here's an example...


The Honorable William Francis Galvin
Secretary of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts
Records Management
http://www.state.ma.us/sec/arc/arcrmu/rmuidx.htm

Government Documents Department  Boston Public Library
State House Library

Rappaport Institute for Greater Boston
http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/rappaport/

CIVICS
http://hcs.harvard.edu/~civics/


Dear Secretary Galvin,



In the more compatible plain text,
not rich text ,  not .txt , not .doc , not html
or in plain text included with the rich text ,  .txt , .doc ,  html

please send by email any and all currently scheduled notices
of Boston City Council
and Committees' public hearings.

In its entirety, do note that the public information is not duplicated
on the City Council web links at
http://cityofboston.gov/citycouncil


Note that merely posting with the City Clerk is too limiting because it doesn't
communicate the information to people interested, concerned or affected by the
public hearings in an timely manner available readily.


Note that people using the same commercial software read the notices but people
without the same commercial software do not have full knowledge of the notices.

For example, people with limited vision using vocalization software that
produces audio from the plain text would not have the full knowledge of
hearings as from the content of the notices in their entirety.


Rajesh Pareek at the City Hall Management and Information Services Department
explains to City Hall employees how to send the more compatible plain text.

MIS Department's Rajesh Pareek will explain how to select plain text for email
or include plain text from the Tools menu as many municipalities, counties
and state government agencies do routinely.



Kind regards,
 Don Warner Saklad
 dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu



For the public hearing notices, contact...

Maureen Feeney, Chair, Government Operations Committee, Boston City Council
tel 617.635.3455
http://www.cityofboston.gov/citycouncil/committee.asp?ID=10
http://www.cityofboston.gov/citycouncil/cc.asp?id_name=Feeney

or contact Michael Flaherty, President, Boston City Council
tel 617.635.4205
http://www.cityofboston.gov/citycouncil/cc.asp?id_name=Flaherty



Ironically, here's the denial that is sent in the more compatible plain text !
COPY
____
____

> X-Coding-System: undecided-unix
> Mail-from: From Ann.Hess (at) ci.boston.ma.us  Tue Aug 26 19:50:26 2003
> Return-Path: <Ann.Hess (at) ci.boston.ma.us>
> Received: from aphrodite.ci.boston.ma.us (aphrodite.ci.boston.ma.us [140.241.103.60])
> 	  by zurich.csail.mit.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.4) with ESMTP id h7QNoPQI014955
> 	  for <dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu>; Tue, 26 Aug 2003 19:50:25 -0400
> Received: by APHRODITE with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
> 	  id <RJ31NVKS>; Tue, 26 Aug 2003 19:01:08 -0400
> Message-ID: <83A4EB97F0B7CC448B2A27C197DE836D0B7F06@ZXC1.ci.boston.ma.us>
> From: "Hess, Ann" <Ann.Hess (at) ci.boston.ma.us>
> To: "'Don Saklad'" <dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu>
> Subject: RE: Public notices. Public hearings. Boston City Council
> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:04:25 -0400
> Deferred-Delivery: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 19:00:00 -0400
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
> Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
> 	  boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01C36C15.A1853300"
> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 required=5.0
> 	  tests=BAYES_20,HTML_10_20,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_FONT_FACE_ODD,
> 		ORIGINAL_MESSAGE
> 	  version=2.54
> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.54 (1.174.2.17-2003-05-11-exp)
> 
> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
> this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
> 
> ------_=_NextPart_000_01C36C15.A1853300
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> 	  boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C36C15.A1853300"
> 
> 
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C36C15.A1853300
> Content-Type: text/plain
> 
>  Boston City Council
>  
> 
> 
> I, among others, continue to receive your emails and calls regarding the
> format that you would like to receive transmission from the City Council
> regarding its activities.
>
> As you have been repeatedly informed by me, members of my staff, council
> staff, and other individuals, the information provided in the courtesy
> emails that we send out via distribution list is a duplication of what is
> available on the City of Boston web page.
>
> In its meetings and hearings, the City Council complies with public notice
> rules that require that the hearing or meeting be posted at least 48 hours
> in advance with the City Clerk.
>
> The information contained in the hearing notice (committee, date, time,
> place, subject) is copied onto the City's web site.
>
> The information distributed through the email system is yet another
> duplication.
>
> As you are the only person who has difficulty reading the information as we
> distribute it through this additional means, I have removed your email
> addresses from the email listing so you will not have any further problems.
>
>  
> 
> For information on City Council meetings and hearings, please consult the
> City of Boston web page at www.cityofboston.gov/citycouncil
> <http://www.cityofboston.gov/citycouncil> for the meeting and hearing
> information from this point forward.
>
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Ann M. Hess
> Staff Director
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> Subject: Public notices. Public hearings. Boston City Council
> 
> 
> Sent To: Candidates for City Council
> 
> Government Operations Committee  Boston City Council
> 
> Ann Hess  Staff Director  Boston City Council Offices
> 
> Gregory W. Sullivan  Massachusetts Office of the Inspector General
> 
> The Honorable William Francis Galvin
> Secretary of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts
> Public Records Division
> 
> 
> To: Government Operations Committee  Boston City Council 
> 
> 
> Alternately, make available the entire public notice on the city council
> web site and send the web link.
> 
> 
> 
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C36C15.A1853300
> Content-Type: text/html
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
> charset=3DUS-ASCII">
> <TITLE></TITLE>
> 
> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
> <BODY>
> <P><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
> style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; =
> mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; =
> mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><IMG=20
> height=3D121 src=3D"cid:873472718@26082003-1486" width=3D120=20
> v:shapes=3D"_x0000_i1025"></SPAN>&nbsp;<FONT face=3DAlgerian =
> size=3D5>Boston City=20
> Council<BR></FONT>&nbsp;<BR><BR><BR>Dear Mr. Saklad:<BR><BR>I, among =
> others,=20
> continue to receive your emails&nbsp;<SPAN =
> class=3D873472718-26082003>and calls=20
> </SPAN>regarding the format that you would like to receive transmission =
> from the=20
> City Council regarding its activities.&nbsp; As you have been =
> repeatedly=20
> informed by me, members of my staff, council staff, and other =
> individuals, the=20
> information provided in the&nbsp;<SPAN=20
> class=3D873472718-26082003><STRONG><EM>courtesy</EM></STRONG> =
> </SPAN>emails that=20
> we send out via distribution list is a duplication of what is available =
> on the=20
> City of Boston web page.&nbsp; In its meetings and hearings, the City =
> Council=20
> complies with public notice rules that require that the hearing or =
> meeting be=20
> posted at least 48 hours in advance with the City Clerk.&nbsp; The =
> information=20
> contained in the hearing notice (committee, date, time, place, subject) =
> is=20
> copied onto the City's web site.&nbsp; The information distributed =
> through the=20
> email system is yet another duplication.&nbsp; As you are the only =
> person who=20
> has difficulty reading the information as we distribute it through this =
> 
> additional means, I&nbsp;<SPAN class=3D873472718-26082003>have removed =
> </SPAN>your=20
> email addresses from the email listing<SPAN class=3D873472718-26082003> =
> so you=20
> will not have any further problems</SPAN>.&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR><BR>For =
> information on=20
> City Council meetings and hearings, please consult the City of Boston =
> web page=20
> at <A =
> href=3D"http://www.cityofboston.gov/citycouncil">www.cityofboston.gov<SP=
> AN=20
> class=3D873472718-26082003>/citycouncil</A></SPAN> for the&nbsp;<SPAN=20
> class=3D873472718-26082003>meeting and hearing </SPAN>information from =
> this point=20
> forward.<BR><BR>Sincerely,<BR><BR>Ann M. Hess<BR>Staff=20
> Director<BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>Subject: =
> Public=20
> notices. Public hearings. Boston City Council<BR><BR><BR>Sent To: =
> Candidates for=20
> City Council<BR><BR>Government Operations Committee&nbsp; Boston City=20
> Council<BR><BR>Ann Hess&nbsp; Staff Director&nbsp; Boston City Council=20
> Offices<BR><BR>Gregory W. Sullivan&nbsp; Massachusetts Office of the =
> Inspector=20
> General<BR><BR>The Honorable William Francis Galvin<BR>Secretary of the =
> 
> Commonwealth of Massachusetts<BR>Public Records Division<BR><BR><BR>To: =
> 
> Government Operations Committee&nbsp; Boston City=20
> Council&nbsp;<BR><BR><BR>Alternately, make available the entire public =
> notice on=20
> the city council<BR>web site and send the web =
> link.<BR></FONT></P></BODY></HTML>
> 
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C36C15.A1853300--
> 
> ------_=_NextPart_000_01C36C15.A1853300
> Content-Type: image/gif;
> 	  name="clip_image002.gif"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
> Content-Disposition: attachment;
> 	  filename="clip_image002.gif"
> Content-ID: <873472718@26082003-1486>
> 
> R0lGODdheAB5AHcAACH+GlNvZnR3YXJlOiBNaWNyb3NvZnQgT2ZmaWNlACwAAAAAeAB5AIQAAAAR
> EREiIiIzMzNERERVVVVmZmZ3d3eIiIiZmZmqqqq7u7vMzMzd3d3u7u7///8BAgMBAgMBAgMBAgMB
> AgMBAgMBAgMBAgMBAgMBAgMBAgMBAgMBAgMBAgMBAgMBAgME//DJSau9OOvNu/9gKI5kaZ5oqq5s
> 1rRwvDKFYSByrm/NQSgFwsBASIQYi51y5EgghobEIblRIAQIxGvAYCy/meerIZQODp9DoYBYFBQL
> gsTxAtsfCYHjQCSwRXFBNgUCCgl9bw53MnuKajUHCVQnhAMEBwcBNX6LMA4IBA0GAgUHXiqfChJq
> Cj4GBXRsip0ncAIDOA15Gw5dcAsMdRtuAAIJCbgPrwW0JgoEAjYEC6kVDAkFAwDb3N0AAUNtGA2E
> AQAHAGcGs80ePV4OAgQGaqcUC6Pb0QhOhglwVv4hMKANQBFhExwocKCInIF2IEoZqRGgSAVR5qId
> O4ZAAYNZDf8U9bKiwJCCfLjYUcgmAAvDBCohWgCCzMCkCQq0Bego6ZSVhxKmWVkwQOLHBSWdmJtG
> odUACaDkXZJZAZmEIAglKBCQLqmXn/gehHzgABwCRYUWYFHVpUFSbQImLZzTEYFEqqsGKLUhaQIZ
> AAWQJFkg6qmWAAH0zGn18OkDPVQuGUE6MJ09CZIWZCkQ4GY7gmyS0IRqEMnCVgnkBHhAjSzSq3Bw
> PBVF4SmDSHQSMCAAYB0FHwi6cJIZfJCEa2R5S4Ip5ZVdB0U8zjswC2kSKT4GVMdxu+yBBtcSIFY1
> 4YAAU1ZlYhKSBadlLQxvOADwyQANHCGQqSLAIAsD7W7FcQ7/BTQMIYAuBmRlxwABmFEHAoAtoBso
> 1AnwwCMKhnASTKTA8UABhP1jEAUOIGXDM2jYMUtqpRAwSwEAlESNH/jsQYA4qNSABGsPaSHJANpV
> EA8yKX5BQAAKNDBEAsLAqNk1ochjQAAJxuDAKw8EaUqJNARQh0LU/AEGOUhyUcGRmvXgGAOFxGQB
> AyXBSdhgunnwEEwH8ANnJtTodRICAbipQx6X+DDLlAtQpwsQZBU5E5MNhFinFFQgYMpHGrRCmHzr
> OAEAnKNICOQdRJwhBx4AaPaARQ+A4tkEcDIpVl9IHNNAgKC2cYygEwzQgDFJNJFJVmrc6igLDeDH
> ZpiDAXAM/1QKUGnKBXSAp4gUTMrp1jGGNAVMlRhIGElTV6j0CR/PwQBHMGYmpNFuNplylgWERQpM
> Q7YitdAxpfhFEo4PdPGmZ3BmU0Eb2QSh7p/MUEDANAw85GJwbjbxkRX9YeKPdUYEPFDHYObpBTkd
> cRBKTqde6WtHa/BKgiFFREEWZgEgwdm4BWRYkmtwOOGzboSJxRAeWTz8A1mHBOPyHESw9isODgii
> BpWnquCEDeYVFXCDMDEUBHVC3nrrP2x5kZm9wMypioRzLFAvnB4NfQEfPQQMBwB13FJitI6pMNAN
> U0swxEJNuimhFGy5zVpHElLB0L1pz/HPGPjk+R1OFETqBP8ouhhMTikFINOwCq48IY54bttQx2V0
> IM1HT0b47LYis/ulNKa3AvOC0nNcU/sE84DUQINQhXMjC4SwJEdZ/KSmIEOG6B5pSbt7cXtfbt0q
> lmBNBDxYQ3DQ7vZYfrWqSX/izaKyl2L5nVjoSTwRjE1FFfmJnJhSO8ZC1bUuQaTs6EVrwEOWj7SB
> e5lrGEz+A5Q5+CoelykBUW5BhbgwJgnTck0X3MY/vxDGfxOgxsgiFbD21UF3x/lIpOrglpgE7T+s
> WQDePjQNfhClbyOYlhrw84CtdCFPbLmHwEzzLHsx5COnMAIS6AAEx7GmhCEpEVnm4r0xzGwCBEHS
> nB72odv/kCFPOAzBQJ6imF5JYnUdy9xxJHCTYGivNR/5h/fmQRaGRJGEJmQjO6xFnvKR41L0IUJv
> DnECtbAhCFpbQGf+A7Y+XuQFHgnYl6wlNzww7XhXvCJC1IdEK5YQM0faVU7WYbajpWAA0dDajTyS
> KMvcI0kvYEgAjzOJU1yJjauEShphZYHdSfJLFHjIGg5nIZz8ARgmMECS7POATwHBkSQSS+6q80oL
> fIKNbCBPyTAAzTQisSqve9ynKHCWNzTwAzuqBmYGEDSoCEl9JBodHnbZC0Mp42FPgQ7Y5tAUElUt
> ISSaF0BqsIpEWaEGS7sAUciwMwncABhga2cVAtO+hpIF/zGbgI4y7UMObJzinLvcVVUqwAfETCFa
> WjFEidZQRg8cogavCY4zewAOeTqsAjRxAxBqEJIsLCQT52mOJYohMzcEk43PCOOFSKqFOjJgnFlQ
> Zkn8sEteqIFu53lDzfAREvK1TQo1aKqS1lCEjpzkBtiw1AGskIWBRKIkapCHjq7yAhOx0xSqUBIV
> XbOqBKmlR2wiA2/a1QFQnPVX7PnBGBODkCyIzAo3ApEbBBCAPIHiDAIIhqUI1RIbEIQgO9wIUfhQ
> lI/xQw3YCAIPW+WAp/yDIKzBRtTiAYs0JAgTbIpC6ODwIGMCKags88GNoCFVt6amJeAwhlqlUihS
> lKIiQP9qBRCIQA9wWCIKeUpjEvD2VgDoMhIDcdEHiPC3PJgiLk4YHkUlUBE1ROEJt/ADYwKCLgn1
> 5wyWCplZf6BMICkSSAmzAYUOYQjTUDYZARuC2BQww1H+gysR1MArsBWN1TizYE9cBVgxUdlS2OVh
> nHFuUW7ghxJXJB2WqLBnD3CGkzp2K1RC5TcSwyAoJMZN0eoYiLJhSpcCpiKJCUaqiJIq7SGtRFrA
> h4Qi9Z+TBMQuliJCko6SLCYHxwdBwMYr9AKKUTyhCZ9IRYjAYxJlUAAZ+ImDJV7FAc5kcW1I2p6Z
> 5yAEIHmWHti5wRowsZGHfkc3wdDNP9hJDx9UuaNR60//otAXCR/kaRSa8AFr2HFWv5yhjiAoCzg6
> 9gxo3sNtqbGEdZdSkMQ8DDHbsDOIGXSe65I2MZRNhzm+AY1twPrA8kB1ZemlhgzfIGLF5IA4jHpN
> bHj6YNno0i2WAWTKtgSVxuAMKmlsCWgEoUXFaAlXst0SaPwAGwAuSs7ghGNAYfkNbMhEQvHQ6x7w
> qznHRipJAgbieSBpHkTYRIkfdouWqCEUZ9mND+TaB/ZMV45Fi0IPbMDm2B5IQgliw5c58AxoMHge
> xkBtBrrQCzW9ARcEDZ7MWFODFtvlrbcAcMkvUZE+dETcAD/EATEBREGVxLtbkcctWtaBW4FitQNR
> RWp8/0Mi8eEZkUe6BL7Z0J/odSFWbIJGqTGB1pIExy1rHUwr9NGZhiN1Ne0b1wiYMoGg5xYTvaQe
> NfyBDcVe7Ab7Q9uzkIFKINUFPVZA2zqutKfoTdkFcAA7G4/1gWeVHX68FNIUQ9LQFsoSPMHADHl0
> oRtdQBxMY7EXnCT5P857z2U9MESwexhvitcMJz9Ils14EPexPY5sYlmXInw3NDcCwyMCm54AI9iL
> dcfWMYow7Aj+MTqidA0zGUjFWGQJJjhpb0d6DI7iPE+Hr6xu8qdQHAirEpcEOaVVSU5PBwjKWv60
> allJ3UaEL3IKAooFjsHSRfn+9xGQRP4a0zOE2D5gzv+1tv1CoMAk57QB/6EdUxB00xAoz9RVHBBB
> mIJMtFMiaRN5OCBHQQMeCBESkQcCeqEqKAIdhaALelB6v2ETNSAFhcJgJRJLdJQCRkYClZRp7qQW
> gsZBtlAIpgczERMFP+AlqhAtGYQXIiAeRQBo44Q1GzUlq4UBV0Jit0EPerFbDKYFeyWEaeAGPiVD
> rBEJ5KBeI7cBlIVal3AidpEE4CEF62eFmQIM2tEKpwIiYZZcVYUBf+NYZCUJXoI77WEBLHUeD1NX
> 9OAbe9A8iVJovqEZU9BDkRArWfAPTlAdaQgr4yYarJIFagGC4tUB1BUdXdFM15AP5HcBiREwEeIs
> F2L/IeMEHZYCIREjIRbSAFBVDKwRCjKUiWUxehcQBUDCJFqIGR8TBD3GAfGQCTvBIIrAF7TCPhdA
> WfjAThACSamCGFXSLLmjCRJwCz1kAACAA+QxICk1QxmwBpOBh0QwEdJSESHwK5pQDLCkFi30P3N4
> jUiSGrfhXayRKv+xDSnCYHXgjS3RQ1fiTBLQGxNgBASZfNChHYdgE7fRKoUGEyIgLDgoBqnSD7yB
> ixMgD9c4BPRBipsnCvaYAOPUTPiBSj1EFpSFH94YNfmQIR/CTHXVGTfwEHnSCy+jFYRRETQAP8aA
> B572VHIAi1yQKspgIaEgFg3DioITlAMyLU+FBvMB/xS+8ZRXIU9OAA2OGCgE4Suh8zCXExFEUU6K
> co97EmhZsWd8EAUNYVm+SA/YNA/B8m/c6F8XYh9TEg1cMVzbEBjKdAFfgUliwQfgFTohQAiFIASO
> ggVtYBciGYmdEIMkkiRtI0MqgUqEwAe+d2ZToYptw2LI9CFbooYYUF1YcghywA8fokADOAKKFJNP
> hTGhcgPhUgposIpX8hOBqBt5kih8FjARZg+455IpFRRkNmQ++QnCOXz2oWXm4Ta+Yj7rF2fzwAyN
> FkhP9SFxYGydYSFaQyIdeY/YQHhzwGJtqBBNgxSDs08ngAT0oCTOJZKt0AOkQAZvMpIWMVp7xgCr
> wf8Hb+AFkLEbgrcKcTEH3jUfSyMev/ApCrErj6YN4ukBZcEgziIeUrAT6FUygWYNM6QkRjBKZZEg
> +4ku1+gI2igMglU19jiSGUCJT7FWcpAghwAcJqAbQPA60TAN+zA0UUM8FNAgV0JHVEdy18lfHXMg
> V8KZDtUFgUIY3gWLDlhZ8UM0eOOKfHkfm1YCZDIFA1AS0iZTh7AHpNBDN9EDl2Obb4AHryAyJ/II
> qiUIurAy0RAEmvAGQViViJE2xDMhfFdtqJSZ3JRdAcE3sfMpjSYW7OSYnYCaZ+EGzNBaUVAjznUg
> KOAcZYBP+JENNlgW9GmFV3IdgMIkURNtSDBiq0n/AvSAheYRDT4gHsrUH6IANQ/KBBH5nKvQBAy2
> VmgQCrgKGPMQj6aaWZWABZnwHQ3iEfl1UTbll5xAYo8hP2wyECCQBMSlPW1wDmzAH4XADwzyMF5H
> AhEDbStDBTKUJg50FvOiAdjQTJjpEbCAJfYojKWQLERwICJymsMyCtUGDUowHcIgkk+SB/SgmEuI
> U8ywGsp0FtPgli21cUHwg3RgMejIRvYBZceAqIUEE+RAWBETI9KHD16QbhkSNVxgDKFQM2mhF1yQ
> rP1kBL5iVHhoU6tkK/uaCd/QL5hxC9soR8zAqngVE71wO4sxC9AnKBHzoWwUgoEnB4qWYF5JDkoQ
> /54K4aAJYik4Gxi6wRlukSU3EEkpEEd38ocAYQW98QkdQQqA8W8xsgQIsVbX4IccGRfhFzo5cytU
> 5adC8lqdkas9AAu6oY3cSANTsBuY0ZedsFtk8ApxYQ5JcYYlwU4WglAAk3zpVLK7QVk0wEoPdnpT
> 4CJRI0ftUDA/QQNHograGAq78gSpgwdnECOAASJ3Fhgg2ZWMgi7bEkdAABiKUAoKyQznca6LIJJ2
> wWXKdAvEByFtUidqoX8xQkZZwh9KghQdI5s1g3OhA5UCUQxUIF2JEgr6eQkDOyYgto2WcjM3Qh3a
> WAi3sTbtylVyUHGrQligsCrQEa+5wWHF8JVncP8bAjgd7AQRoEUlyJAqEDJ5FzkhTdUqNYqBqxEK
> WdtD2fpKW1cay+FQz3AWiKsN3QoGQ5cYe5muWuEEMEIlXXAM1FAieYIHjHTCQ7E7/5A6qfYVa6AK
> zDNZ8+AHsboInzAPLFMuElsKUPgNWSchgfp0RNSIFXsSs1anfBAwlfA+v/W9VnhZzZNy5mAK5mFr
> RRAMaeM2E/gTpZZ6/qAsHDGT2XEGdnsHKDidwnqXRbFrs8IZ3vANcUxrOKILcFOS39BAA9ERZ3wH
> xJUQkWATT8AHmdVLEqJWPlyx1yJHmAAkdQYj+ui5ohkG55FAbsOfFZGsJQKR3GSJH6YnXPKcpID/
> dpOcfMb0Cr0BVzibiOWRBVwQiGtVkC0hOp3zA9FyCnzgfKVMgMpUA/TAUtBmNMp0DK/gB1Srka3y
> BuFJWRYxH5ysFojRx3iRnXkAbSYFj38jDz4TMXbBBs/2MIBBYZ1VFBa7y34JRiG2lUfZKAZBUanq
> B3L1D9fAIIjBb+8jzeZsAaSAC/2LD94WHNt6HvFBD4pKCk4cHPk8Aq2Amr+SILcxDwDmB3WXGv+D
> VmSFBvhQElWY0B8QD8sAYJdTKgdyG/1bIL3skxLLhBwNAk7gMeOrCgP3HY82Op8zDYmSEERJenOg
> sis9Dip7BcxwWQcJKy1XEaYUzEdi1Dfc04onNyQRy0/Usi7r4SKvwxbe5qtM3QH+MIRC8J+Zk5xZ
> zcslgDBhHcVKVdZondZqvdZs3dZu/dYPEAEAOw==
> 
> ------_=_NextPart_000_01C36C15.A1853300--
> 
COPY
____
____


From nick at zork.net  Sat Aug 30 11:44:13 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:44 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org: CrackMonkey
	unsubscribe notification]
Message-ID: <20030830184413.GW22156@zork.net>

The cable speed was not enough for him to bear the full brunt of this
list.

----- Forwarded message from mailman-bounces@crackmonkey.org -----

wcshafer@cablespeed.com has been removed from CrackMonkey.


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Support your droogs!

end


From nick at zork.net  Sat Aug 30 17:54:17 2003
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:58:44 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Don't SUSPECT an informant; REPORT him!
Message-ID: <20030831005417.GC23904@zork.net>

http://www.all-the-other-names-were-taken.com/tipstips.html
> To combat this menace, we've instituted Operation TIPS-TIPS. If you
> spot somebody you believe may be a TIPS informant, do two things:
> 
>     * Mark the informant. In a subtle way, place the mark of the
>       all-seeing eye (the eye-in-the-pyramid from the Great Seal,
>       shown above) on their home, vehicle or person. Chalk is best,
>       though it must be renewed. This is like Hobo Signs.
>     * Register them here. 

-- 
Support your droogs!

end