From e at ericrichardson.com  Sat Jun  1 00:57:16 2002
From: e at ericrichardson.com (eric richardson)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:09 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] I know, I know, it's Windows, but...
In-Reply-To: <878z5zg4uw.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <200205312134.aa91935@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> <6u3cw8oxii.fsf@zork.zork.net> <20020531211813.GI29255@gonzo> <878z5zg4uw.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <20020601075716.GJ29255@gonzo>

* Last Judgement Samuel (junasts@subdimension.com) wrote:
> So, I've been looking over this for a while, and I think maybe I'm
> missing the joke. Is the point that he thought this was some cool
> thing to put on his T-shirt, but then when he actually wore it, people
> laughed at him because it says something obscene and derogatory that
> he didn't realize?

Supposedly the D4 opening is considered defensive because of the piece 
it opens up (which I'm far too lazy to remember).  E4, on the other 
hand is offensive, and it's motto was "sting like a bee."  

The never wearing it again part was the result of our merciless
taunting.  The shirt was paraded around campus by several guys on the
floor who found it amusing.
 
> Because I don't realize it either. I'm looking at it really hard, and
> I'm hoping the joke is really funny, because I'm having to work real
> hard, but it's just not there.

Personally, I found it amusing that he had a t-shirt with his opening
chess move on it.  That and the whole bit with a nickname containing a
number.
 
> Or did he maybe just not like the T-shirt?
> 
> Can someone diagram this joke for me? Please CC: me as I am not
> subscribed to this newsgroup.

I left my copy of Word, with its convienent diagramming tools, in my
other pants. 

> Also, Eric: I'd like to find out about getting a domain name you have.

Feel free to email me about it off-list.

e;

--
  ____    e r i c   r i c h a r d s o n  - - e@ericrichardson.com
_/ __ \         http://ericrichardson.com   http://escripting.com
\  ___/                                       http://ethreads.com
 \___  >        GPG Key:  http://ericrichardson.com/gpg-key.shtml
     \/ 


From jdub at perkypants.org  Sat Jun  1 03:52:29 2002
From: jdub at perkypants.org (Jeff Waugh)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:10 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Damn you, RMS
In-Reply-To: <20020531201905.GA96977@yoyo.org>
References: <20020531201905.GA96977@yoyo.org>
Message-ID: <20020601105229.GI994@perkypants.org>

<quote who="Peter Lowe">

> You know how difficult it is to find actual information on the Interweb
> about actual Gnus?

They all have wanderlust.

- Jeff

-- 
  "I run Linux on pretty much everything except the microwave and washing   
     machine. Those are tempting targets but would probably make Telsa      
                        extremely cross." - Alan Cox                        


From sharkey at zoic.org  Sat Jun  1 03:51:33 2002
From: sharkey at zoic.org (Nick 'Sharkey' Moore)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:10 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] I know, I know, it's Windows, but...
In-Reply-To: <20020601075716.GJ29255@gonzo>; from e@ericrichardson.com on Sat, Jun 01, 2002 at 12:57:16AM -0700
References: <200205312134.aa91935@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> <6u3cw8oxii.fsf@zork.zork.net> <20020531211813.GI29255@gonzo> <878z5zg4uw.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20020601075716.GJ29255@gonzo>
Message-ID: <20020601205133.C22107@dwerryhouse.com.au>

On Sat, Jun 01, 2002 at 12:57:16AM -0700, eric richardson wrote:
> 
> The never wearing it again part was the result of our merciless
> taunting.  The shirt was paraded around campus by several guys on the
> floor who found it amusing.

So, what you're saying is that in some kind of male bonding ritual,
you and/or several of your peers "merciless[ly] taunted" a chess geek
and then humiliated him by "parading" his shirt, symbolizing both
his abberant unconformity and the subjugation of this by you, in
front of his peers and potential mates.

Oh, aren't you the big bad alpha wolfy-wolf.

-----sharks


From jdub at perkypants.org  Sat Jun  1 04:01:04 2002
From: jdub at perkypants.org (Jeff Waugh)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:10 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Hey guys, they're hiring!
In-Reply-To: <87sn4bs2tu.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <20020529025417.GV11576@zork.net> <87sn4bs2tu.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <20020601110104.GJ994@perkypants.org>

<quote who="Mister Bad">

> If they can't capitalize on a great brand like "The Mafia," man, they
> _deserve_ to get swept away by Adam Smith's vicious invisible hand.

Adam Smith was a wanker. Ask his mother.

- Jeff

-- 
          "And up in the corporate box there's a group of pleasant          
   thirtysomething guys making tuneful music for the masses of people who   
    can spell 'nihilism', but don't want to listen to it in the car." -     
                            Richard Jinman, SMH                             


From sneakums at zork.net  Sat Jun  1 04:04:52 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:10 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Damn you, RMS
In-Reply-To: <20020601105229.GI994@perkypants.org> (Jeff Waugh's message of
 "Sat, 1 Jun 2002 20:52:29 +1000")
References: <20020531201905.GA96977@yoyo.org>
	<20020601105229.GI994@perkypants.org>
Message-ID: <6un0ufntt7.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Jeff Waugh quotation:

> <quote who="Peter Lowe">
>> You know how difficult it is to find actual information on the
>> Interweb about actual Gnus?
>
> They all have wanderlust.

Those that aren't mewing pathetically, at any rate.

-- 
"There should be a homonym exam before people are issued keyboards."
	-- Zen


From brian at 8ball.wox.org  Sat Jun  1 05:00:07 2002
From: brian at 8ball.wox.org (Brian Hicks)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:10 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Happy Mailman Day!
Message-ID: <20020601120007.GA5134@8ball.wox.org>

In honor of Mailman Day, here's a joke:

One day a pirate walks into a bar with a steering wheel
  attached to his crotch. So the bartender says to him,
  "You know you have a steering wheel attached to your crotch?"

   And the pirate says, "Aaar, its driving me nuts!"




From junasts at subdimension.com  Sat Jun  1 06:39:01 2002
From: junasts at subdimension.com (Last Judgement Samuel)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:10 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey
 subscription notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020601030042.GZ11576@zork.net> (Nick Moffitt's message of
 "Fri, 31 May 2002 20:00:43 -0700")
References: <20020601030042.GZ11576@zork.net>
Message-ID: <871ybr5dai.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

>>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt <nick@zork.net> writes:

    NM> I see no coincidence here!

Oh, well, aren't you just the clever fellow.

I heard this was the mailing list with the Canadian Ninja Clone
of Zach Copley. As a Canadian, I was disturbed and intrigued.

                                      -- Last Judgement Samuel

-- 
+++ Last Judgement Samuel + junasts@subdimension.com + 0x8D3E92DE +++


From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu  Sat Jun  1 07:27:24 2002
From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:10 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Have Jack Stick it To Ya! 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 31 May 2002 23:53:14 PDT."
             <20020601065314.GA1823@dasbistro.com> 
References: <20020601065314.GA1823@dasbistro.com>
Message-ID: <200206011427.g51ERODg007230@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>

Jack Valenti should have said:

>     "ARRRRR! I wish I'd thought of this!"
http://www.law.com/jsp/statearchive.jsp?type=Article&oldid=ZZZ5YOJ9V1D




From jdub at perkypants.org  Sat Jun  1 07:33:37 2002
From: jdub at perkypants.org (Jeff Waugh)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:10 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Damn you, RMS
In-Reply-To: <6un0ufntt7.fsf@zork.zork.net>
References: <20020531201905.GA96977@yoyo.org> <20020601105229.GI994@perkypants.org> <6un0ufntt7.fsf@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020601143337.GK994@perkypants.org>

<quote who="Sean Neakums">

> > They all have wanderlust.
> 
> Those that aren't mewing pathetically, at any rate.

Don't talk about Richard like that, blasphemer.

- Jeff

-- 
   "It's actually my new bandwidth conservation technique: compresion of    
                     al double leters." - Telsa Gwynne                      


From jdub at perkypants.org  Sat Jun  1 07:34:31 2002
From: jdub at perkypants.org (Jeff Waugh)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:10 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Happy Mailman Day!
In-Reply-To: <20020601120007.GA5134@8ball.wox.org>
References: <20020601120007.GA5134@8ball.wox.org>
Message-ID: <20020601143431.GL994@perkypants.org>

<quote who="Brian Hicks">

> In honor of Mailman Day, here's a joke:

I was there first.

>    And the pirate says, "Aaar, its driving me nuts!"

"Ahr."

- Jeff

-- 
    You know a French woman is faking it when she screams, "I would like    
                     the table near the window please!"                     


From junasts at subdimension.com  Sat Jun  1 07:05:58 2002
From: junasts at subdimension.com (Last Judgement Samuel)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:10 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] I know, I know, it's Windows, but...
In-Reply-To: <20020601075716.GJ29255@gonzo> (eric richardson's message of
 "Sat, 1 Jun 2002 00:57:16 -0700")
References: <200205312134.aa91935@salmon.maths.tcd.ie>
	<6u3cw8oxii.fsf@zork.zork.net> <20020531211813.GI29255@gonzo>
	<878z5zg4uw.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
	<20020601075716.GJ29255@gonzo>
Message-ID: <87adqf3whe.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

>>>>> "er" == eric richardson <e@ericrichardson.com> writes:

    er> Supposedly the D4 opening is considered defensive because of
    er> the piece it opens up (which I'm far too lazy to remember).
    er> E4, on the other hand is offensive, and it's motto was "sting
    er> like a bee."

OK, so, Muhammad Ali rox0rs. Chess is a fine pursuit, albeit
automatable. If he still has this T-shirt, I want it.

    er> The never wearing it again part was the result of our
    er> merciless taunting.  The shirt was paraded around campus by
    er> several guys on the floor who found it amusing.

Chess geeks can be so cruel.
 
    er> That and the whole bit with a nickname containing a number.
 
Right. Numbers are funny.

    er> I left my copy of Word, with its convienent diagramming tools,
    er> in my other pants.

ha ha pants.

    me> Also, Eric: I'd like to find out about getting a domain name
    me> you have.

    er> Feel free to email me about it off-list.

Beaujolais! Bad craziness at entirely attainable speeds!

                                      -- Last Judgement Samuel

-- 
+++ Last Judgement Samuel + junasts@subdimension.com + 0x8D3E92DE +++


From sneakums at zork.net  Sat Jun  1 07:57:44 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:10 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Damn you, RMS
In-Reply-To: <20020601143337.GK994@perkypants.org> (Jeff Waugh's message of
 "Sun, 2 Jun 2002 00:33:37 +1000")
References: <20020531201905.GA96977@yoyo.org>
	<20020601105229.GI994@perkypants.org> <6un0ufntt7.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<20020601143337.GK994@perkypants.org>
Message-ID: <6uheknnj13.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Jeff Waugh quotation:

> <quote who="Sean Neakums">
>> > They all have wanderlust.
>> Those that aren't mewing pathetically, at any rate.
>
> Don't talk about Richard like that, blasphemer.

Ah, so I *should* have diagrammed that joke.

-- 
"What they should do is try to get a whole nest of artificially
 intelligent kernels like ants or bees: ``Stop the hacker!  He's going
 for the queen!''  And like a bunch of them start shutting down
 various systems ... it'd be like Death Star except without the
 explosions." -- Emad El-Haraty, on OS design.


From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu  Sat Jun  1 08:35:01 2002
From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:10 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Damn you, RMS 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Jun 2002 00:33:37 +1000."
             <20020601143337.GK994@perkypants.org> 
References: <20020531201905.GA96977@yoyo.org> <20020601105229.GI994@perkypants.org> <6un0ufntt7.fsf@zork.zork.net>
            <20020601143337.GK994@perkypants.org>
Message-ID: <200206011535.g51FZ1Dg004241@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>

On Sun, 02 Jun 2002 00:33:37 +1000, Jeff Waugh <jdub@perkypants.org>  said:

> Don't talk about Richard like that, blasphemer.

Yes, exactly, since libblaspheme.so is covered by the GPL.


From nick at zork.net  Sat Jun  1 13:55:33 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:10 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
Message-ID: <20020601205533.GF24561@zork.net>

Happy Mailman Day!

----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net -----

thorsten_nicklaus@web.de has been removed from CrackMonkey.


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From mwmiller at columbus.rr.com  Sat Jun  1 15:20:55 2002
From: mwmiller at columbus.rr.com (mwmiller@columbus.rr.com)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:10 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Have Jack Stick it To Ya!
In-Reply-To: <20020601065314.GA1823@dasbistro.com>
References: <20020601065314.GA1823@dasbistro.com>
Message-ID: <20020601222055.GA3791@columbus.rr.com>

On Fri, May 31, 2002 at 11:53:14PM -0700, Sam Phillips <sam@dasbistro.com> wrote:
> http://www.dasbistro.com/~sam/img/jack-valenti.png
> http://www.dasbistro.com/~sam/img/jack-valenti.ps

So, why *did* you decide to make a Postscript document that was just a
big bitmap image, again?
-- 
Matthew W. Miller -- mwmiller@columbus.rr.com


From mwmiller at columbus.rr.com  Sat Jun  1 15:24:21 2002
From: mwmiller at columbus.rr.com (mwmiller@columbus.rr.com)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:10 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Have Jack Stick it To Ya!
In-Reply-To: <200206011427.g51ERODg007230@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
References: <20020601065314.GA1823@dasbistro.com> <200206011427.g51ERODg007230@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <20020601222421.GB3791@columbus.rr.com>

On Sat, Jun 01, 2002 at 10:27:24AM -0400, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
> Jack Valenti should have said:
> >     "ARRRRR! I wish I'd thought of this!"
> http://www.law.com/jsp/statearchive.jsp?type=Article&oldid=ZZZ5YOJ9V1D

"Page Not Found
We're sorry, but the page you requested does not exist. If you're
sure that the address you've requested is spelled correctly, it's
possible the page has moved. Please visit our homepage or our sitemap
for assistance."

Yes, indeed he should have.

How about taking a few extra seconds out of your busy day to cut and
paste some relevant quotes next time, then?  Don't worry about spoiling
it for people-- I'm pretty sure everyone knows that Rosebud is his sled
and Luke is his father, or something like that, by now.
-- 
Matthew W. Miller -- mwmiller@columbus.rr.com


From sneakums at zork.net  Sat Jun  1 15:22:19 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:10 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Have Jack Stick it To Ya!
In-Reply-To: <20020601222055.GA3791@columbus.rr.com> (mwmiller@columbus.rr.com's
 message of "Sat, 1 Jun 2002 18:20:55 -0400")
References: <20020601065314.GA1823@dasbistro.com>
	<20020601222055.GA3791@columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <6uelfq63ms.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  mwmiller@columbus.rr.com quotation:

> On Fri, May 31, 2002 at 11:53:14PM -0700, Sam Phillips <sam@dasbistro.com> wrote:
>> http://www.dasbistro.com/~sam/img/jack-valenti.png
>> http://www.dasbistro.com/~sam/img/jack-valenti.ps
>
> So, why *did* you decide to make a Postscript document that was just a
> big bitmap image, again?

For people who have native PostScript printers.  Duh.

-- 
"Forfiku vin, trolo!"
	-- Mr. Bad


From sneakums at zork.net  Sat Jun  1 15:26:10 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Have Jack Stick it To Ya!
In-Reply-To: <20020601222421.GB3791@columbus.rr.com> (mwmiller@columbus.rr.com's
 message of "Sat, 1 Jun 2002 18:24:21 -0400")
References: <20020601065314.GA1823@dasbistro.com>
	<200206011427.g51ERODg007230@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
	<20020601222421.GB3791@columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <6u661263gd.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  mwmiller@columbus.rr.com quotation:

> On Sat, Jun 01, 2002 at 10:27:24AM -0400, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
>> Jack Valenti should have said:
>> >     "ARRRRR! I wish I'd thought of this!"
>> http://www.law.com/jsp/statearchive.jsp?type=Article&oldid=ZZZ5YOJ9V1D
>
> "Page Not Found

It loads fine for me.  Now stop wasting my time, you fucking twit.

-- 
"A cavalry would be a waste of time.  Guys on bikes, that's the ticket!"
	-- Eamon de Valera


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Sat Jun  1 16:18:11 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Have Jack Stick it To Ya!
In-Reply-To: <6u661263gd.fsf@zork.zork.net>
References: <20020601065314.GA1823@dasbistro.com> <200206011427.g51ERODg007230@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20020601222421.GB3791@columbus.rr.com> <6u661263gd.fsf@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020601231811.GI24561@zork.net>

begin  Sean Neakums  quotation:
> commence  mwmiller@columbus.rr.com quotation:
> >> http://www.law.com/jsp/statearchive.jsp?type=Article&oldid=ZZZ5YOJ9V1D
> >
> > "Page Not Found
> 
> It loads fine for me.  Now stop wasting my time, you fucking twit.

	Loads once for me, then redirects me to a bad cookie page.
	

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From sam at dasbistro.com  Sat Jun  1 17:22:53 2002
From: sam at dasbistro.com (Sam Phillips)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Have Jack Stick it To Ya!
In-Reply-To: <20020601222055.GA3791@columbus.rr.com>
References: <20020601065314.GA1823@dasbistro.com> <20020601222055.GA3791@columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20020602002253.GD1823@dasbistro.com>

On Sat, Jun 01, 2002 at 06:20:55PM -0400, mwmiller@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> On Fri, May 31, 2002 at 11:53:14PM -0700, Sam Phillips <sam@dasbistro.com> wrote:
> > http://www.dasbistro.com/~sam/img/jack-valenti.png
> > http://www.dasbistro.com/~sam/img/jack-valenti.ps
> 
> So, why *did* you decide to make a Postscript document that was just a
> big bitmap image, again?

Because the true joy with Pirate Jack is to print it out and deface him
more.  And anybody worth anything has a postscript printer at their
disposal.

-- 
Sam Phillips <sam@dasbistro.com>             http://www.dasbistro.com/~sam
Das Bistro Heavy Industries                       Histogram Valley, Nevada


From mvw at wave.co.nz  Sat Jun  1 17:58:52 2002
From: mvw at wave.co.nz (Mark van Walraven)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] test your skills...
In-Reply-To: <1022872206.6542.33745.camel@amory>
References: <v0300780db916e44b3bf5@[10.0.1.2]> <v03007811b916e9135b6c@[10.0.1.2]> <200205261604.21115.dep@linuxandmain.com> <1022443938.17756.107594.camel@amory> <m3n0uhdlmh.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <20020531102445.GB547@mvw.wave.co.nz> <1022872206.6542.33745.camel@amory>
Message-ID: <20020602005852.GA1296@mvw.wave.co.nz>

On Fri, May 31, 2002 at 03:10:06PM -0400, Subjugator of Pt. Jeff & Conqueror  of Long Island wrote:
> On Fri, 2002-05-31 at 06:24, Mark van Walraven wrote:
> > On Thu, May 30, 2002 at 08:47:18PM -0700, Karl Anderson wrote:
> > > Subjugator "of Pt. Jeff & Conqueror " of Long Island <ron@vnetworx.net> writes:
> > > A robot walks into a bar.  Solve without googling.

> Funny, I know I didn't write that.

Whoops.

Mark.


From mwmiller at columbus.rr.com  Sat Jun  1 18:24:29 2002
From: mwmiller at columbus.rr.com (mwmiller@columbus.rr.com)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Have Jack Stick it To Ya!
In-Reply-To: <20020601231811.GI24561@zork.net>
References: <20020601065314.GA1823@dasbistro.com> <200206011427.g51ERODg007230@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20020601222421.GB3791@columbus.rr.com> <6u661263gd.fsf@zork.zork.net> <20020601231811.GI24561@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020602012429.GA5092@columbus.rr.com>

On Sat, Jun 01, 2002 at 04:18:11PM -0700, Monkey Master and Prince
Regent of San Francisco <monkeymaster@crackmonkey.org> wrote:
> 
begin  Sean Neakums  quotation:
> > commence  mwmiller@columbus.rr.com quotation:
> > >> http://www.law.com/jsp/statearchive.jsp?type=Article&oldid=ZZZ5YOJ9V1D
> > > "Page Not Found
> > It loads fine for me.
> Loads once for me, then redirects me to a bad cookie page.

Three different results for three different people?  It must be deciding
how to mess with people's minds based on hashes of IP addresses or
something.
-- 
Matthew W. Miller -- mwmiller@columbus.rr.com


From ron at vnetworx.net  Sat Jun  1 22:07:53 2002
From: ron at vnetworx.net (Subjugator of Pt. Jeff & Conqueror  of Long Island)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Minor Deities need money too
Message-ID: <1022994474.6542.113339.camel@amory>

And aren't shy about sharing their problems with a few close personal
strangers over IRC...

    (00:37:10) lilo: [GlobalNotice] Hi all.  Apologies for the
    interruption.  Please take a look at http://somegeek.org/ when you
    get a chance.  Thanks to everybody who has responded.





From nick at zork.net  Sun Jun  2 18:01:53 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] From Seth's diary
Message-ID: <20020603010153.GN24561@zork.net>

http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/P/tj3/writings/brf/jefl220.htm
> It has been pretended by some, (and in England especially,) that
> inventors have a natural and exclusive right to their inventions,
> and not merely for their own lives, but inheritable to their heirs.
> But while it is a moot question whether the origin of any kind of
> property is derived from nature at all, it would be singular to
> admit a natural and even an hereditary right to inventors. It is
> agreed by those who have seriously considered the subject, that no
> individual has, of natural right, a separate property in an acre of
> land, for instance. By an universal law, indeed, whatever, whether
> fixed or movable, belongs to all men equally and in common, is the
> property for the moment of him who occupies it; but when he
> relinquishes the occupation, the property goes with it. Stable
> ownership is the gift of social law, and is given late in the
> progress of society. It would be curious then, if an idea, the
> fugitive fermentation of an individual brain, could, of natural
> right, be claimed in exclusive and stable property. If nature has
> made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive
> property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea,
> which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it
> to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the
> possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself
> of it. Its peculiar character, too, is that no one possesses the
> less, because every other possesses the whole of it.  He who
> receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without
> lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light
> without darkening me. That ideas should freely spread from one to
> another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of man,
> and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and
> benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire,
> expansible over all space, without lessening their density in any
> point, and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have our
> physical being, incapable of confinement or exclusive appropriation.
> Inventions then cannot, in nature, be a subject of property. Society
> may give an exclusive right to the profits arising from them, as an
> encouragement to men to pursue ideas which may produce utility, but
> this may or may not be done, according to the will and convenience
> of the society, without claim or complaint from any body.

[new paragraph added by me]

> Accordingly, it is a fact, as far as I am informed, that England
> was, until we copied her, the only country on earth which ever, by a
> general law, gave a legal right to the exclusive use of an idea. In
> some other countries it is sometimes done, in a great case, and by a
> special and personal act, but, generally speaking, other nations
> have thought that these monopolies produce more embarrassment than
> advantage to society; and it may be observed that the nations which
> refuse monopolies of invention, are as fruitful as England in new
> and useful devices. 

	In other words, the "it encourages development" argument was
empirically *false* in 1813.

	That was a fun letter to read!  Most folks have that signature
from the middle of the included paragraph.  Leave it to the dutch to
post this stuff.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Sun Jun  2 18:11:57 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] From Seth's diary
In-Reply-To: <20020603010153.GN24561@zork.net>
References: <20020603010153.GN24561@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020603011157.GO24561@zork.net>

begin  Nick Moffitt  quotation:
> [new paragraph added by me]

	That is, I added the paragraph separator, not the actual
paragraph contents.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From 0272456089 at djuice.co.nz  Sun Jun  2 22:54:11 2002
From: 0272456089 at djuice.co.nz (0272456089)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] the answer
Message-ID: <3CF41869@mail.djuice.co.nz>

begin  It's good to be back. Sorry I still can't rap my lines, but I'm a white guy you see. While I've been away, one of my questions has been answered. Somegeek makes it abundantly clear why he should get a life. Other news helps up to understand about software piracy from a religious standpoint. Why does that work for muslims but not for the rest of us? The population at large know it's a sin to buy from Bill, but they still keep on doing it. Maybe it's like adultery. Certainly you're screwed both ways.



From mike at embody.org  Sun Jun  2 23:22:36 2002
From: mike at embody.org (mike dillon (Agent Orange Dick))
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] the answer
In-Reply-To: <3CF41869@mail.djuice.co.nz>
References: <3CF41869@mail.djuice.co.nz>
Message-ID: <20020603062236.GA12154@eber.embody.org>

begin  0272456089 quotation:
> begin  It's good to be back. Sorry I still can't rap my lines, but I'm
> a white guy you see. While I've been away, one of my questions has
> been answered. Somegeek makes it abundantly clear why he should get a
> life. Other news helps up to understand about software piracy from a
> religious standpoint. Why does that work for muslims but not for the
> rest of us? The population at large know it's a sin to buy from Bill,
> but they still keep on doing it. Maybe it's like adultery. Certainly
> you're screwed both ways.

YDIYDYDIYD.

-md


From sneakums at zork.net  Mon Jun  3 03:58:25 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] the answer
In-Reply-To: <3CF41869@mail.djuice.co.nz> (0272456089's message of "Mon, 3
 Jun 2002 17:54:11 +1200")
References: <3CF41869@mail.djuice.co.nz>
Message-ID: <6ulm9w4oj2.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  0272456089 quotation:

> Maybe it's like adultery. Certainly you're screwed both ways.

But not if it's EMOTIONAL ADULTERY.

-- 
"People who post unattributed quotes to their Web diaries suck."
	-- Sean Neakums


From nick at zork.net  Mon Jun  3 06:20:12 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
Message-ID: <20020603132012.GF24561@zork.net>

Ha ha real

----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net -----

bauer@atlas.unisinos.br has been removed from CrackMonkey.


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From nick at zork.net  Mon Jun  3 09:00:51 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
Message-ID: <20020603160051.GI24561@zork.net>

The pogrom is proceeding as planned.

----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net -----

bob@rjtorres.net has been removed from CrackMonkey.

docx@io.com has been removed from CrackMonkey.


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From smcmahon at eiv.com  Mon Jun  3 09:33:46 2002
From: smcmahon at eiv.com (Shawn McMahon)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Civilization is over
Message-ID: <20020603163346.GB22081@eiv.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Put on your new sneakers and get out the purple sheets, it's time to get
off this rock:

http://www.esmurfs.com/


- -- 
Shawn McMahon                    | McMahon's Laws of Linux support:
http://www.eiv.com               | 1) There's more than one way to do it
AIM: spmcmahonfedex, smcmahoneiv | 2) Somebody thinks your way is wrong
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iEYEARECAAYFAjz7mmoACgkQEcl9bQ0RMt3P+wCeMfdhobz0WP0kXB2LkvjbqiLd
89UAoLHn+olHfwhgvjCya3pxaB45gnmu
=cOsM
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Mon Jun  3 09:47:44 2002
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Civilization is over 
In-Reply-To: Message from Shawn McMahon <smcmahon@eiv.com> 
   of "Mon, 03 Jun 2002 12:33:46 EDT." <20020603163346.GB22081@eiv.com> 
References: <20020603163346.GB22081@eiv.com> 
Message-ID: <E17Euzg-00021d-00@bear.ruptured-duck.org>

>>>>> On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, "who?" == Shawn McMahon wrote:

  who?> http://www.esmurfs.com/

Oh? So you're too good for smurfs?

God save us from these elitist snobs. Ramp up the pogrom.

-- 
No matter how good she looks, some other guy is sick and tired of
putting up with her crap.

---Men's Room, Linda's Bar and Grill, Chapel Hill, North Carolina




From henrik at enberg.org  Mon Jun  3 09:47:58 2002
From: henrik at enberg.org (Henrik Enberg)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Some people don't believe Miles Nordin
Message-ID: <873cw448ch.fsf@enberg.org>

> Miles Nordin claimed that microkernels are dead already. But this is
> not completely true. The first generation of microkernels, which were
> in fact no real microkernels, are dead. But there is a new generation,
> which uses a radically different strategy than the original
> (so-called) microkernels.

<http://gnu-friends.org/story/2002/6/2/145844/7148>

-- 
Yo mama's so stupid, it takes her an hour to cook minute rice.


From sneakums at zork.net  Mon Jun  3 09:53:58 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Civilization is over
In-Reply-To: <E17Euzg-00021d-00@bear.ruptured-duck.org> (Bob Bernstein's
 message of "Mon, 03 Jun 2002 12:47:44 -0400")
References: <20020603163346.GB22081@eiv.com>
	<E17Euzg-00021d-00@bear.ruptured-duck.org>
Message-ID: <6uwutguwux.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Bob Bernstein quotation:

>>>>>> On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, "who?" == Shawn McMahon wrote:
>
>   who?> http://www.esmurfs.com/
>
> Oh? So you're too good for smurfs?

Nobody needs a show based on the premise that "incest is best".

-- 
"Be somebody, or be somebody's fool."
	-- Eamon de Valera


From nick at zork.net  Mon Jun  3 10:49:53 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Why the FBI needs those expanded powers
Message-ID: <20020603174952.GM24561@zork.net>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49210-2002Jun2.html
> With great care, the agents documented the secret life of a high-end
> brothel. Through more than 5,000 phone calls, they kept listening to
> the madams, the hookers and the johns, even though the conversations
> never turned up mentions of mob bosses or hard-core drug dealing --
> both cited in the FBI's initial wiretap application 13 months ago.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From zen at zork.net  Mon Jun  3 14:21:53 2002
From: zen at zork.net (George Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Civilization is over
In-Reply-To: <6uwutguwux.fsf@zork.zork.net>
References: <20020603163346.GB22081@eiv.com> <E17Euzg-00021d-00@bear.ruptured-duck.org> <6uwutguwux.fsf@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020603212153.GB22603@zork.net>

begin  Sean Neakums  uuencoded stream:
> Nobody needs a show based on the premise that "incest is best".

	Ha ha!  I get it!  'Cause they only had one chick!  Ahahaha!
Man, somebody should, like, write some kind of humor essay about how
they were all porking the same woman.  That'd be CLASSIC.

-- 
http://www.georgebox.org - Where I keep all my stuff.
http://www.emgnulation.org - Freedom in the emulation community.
http://www.robotfindskitten.org - Gaming innovation.
                george@georgebox.org


From junasts at subdimension.com  Mon Jun  3 17:25:19 2002
From: junasts at subdimension.com (Last Judgement Samuel)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Don Marti Has To Be Naked To Get Into The Met
Message-ID: <87sn43lwk0.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

Rhizome list makes nettime-l look like a real bunch of pragmatists.

                                       -- Last Judgement Samuel

---8<---
Date: 5.28.2002
From: Marisa Olson (marisa@concentric.net)
Subject: Hacktivism as High {Tech} Art
Keywords: surveillance, media activism, language

Currently on view at New York's New Museum of Contemporary Art is
"Open_Source_Art_Hack," a group show of artists poetically conflating
hacking with open-sourcing.  There is, already, a bit of a hacker ethos
to open source.  The idea that often commercially-valuable, always
laboriously-constructed codes should be openly accessible (openly
modifiable!) by all begs the invention of naughty plots ? la Bruce
Sterling's 1993 cult classic, "The Hacker Crackdown."  But the artists
in this show are not rerouting police emergency calls to phone- sex
lines or breathing heavily into payphone receivers to rip off Baby
Bells.  They are co-opting existing means of surveillance or
surveillance-culture indoctrination to make new comments about life in
network culture.  Incidentally, by participating in a major museum show,
they are also helping to launch "hacktivism" into the colloquy of
contemporary art...

On Sundays, in New York, the curious can take a walking tour of the
city's hidden cameras, led by members of the Surveillance Camera
Players.  The group has mapped over half of the city's estimated ten
thousand strategically-placed cameras--though the total figure continues
to rise, following post-911 rally- cries for increased surveillance.
The Players have worked, through tours, performances, protests, and
other activities, to protect the rights of Americans, outlined under the
4th Amendment to the Constitution, "against unreasonable searches and
seizures."  Americans, they say, have a right to observe those observing
them.  This mantra plays out, self-reflexively, in all of the work
included in "Open Source Art Hack."

In SCP's case, the surveillance camera is treated like a television
camera, before which the group performs theatrical gems from George
Orwell's "Animal Farm" to Alfred Jarry's "Ubu Roi."  After six years of
interventions, SCP has come to feel that passersby have become more
their audience than the police eyes trained on their target cameras, as
evidenced in protests in which members inform oblivious strollers that
they were being watched.  Videos of these performances and walking-tours
comprise SCP's contribution to the show.  Museum visitors (or otherwise
oblivious strollers) will find themselves peering in at the videos in
the museum's storefront window--an at-once typical site for the
investment of scopophilic energy and atypical site for the
museum-display of art.

Next to SCP's videos, and further inside the museum, are the Radical
Software Group's "Carnivore" clients.  RSG's packet-sniffing machine
monitors the traffic on a selection of computers--in this case, those in
the museum's media lounge-- and visualizes the docking-sites and use of
pre-programmed keywords.  Putting the "art" in "art hack," each RSG
client has created a unique interface for this visualization.
Particularly poignant is entopy8zuper's representation of active users
as globe-circling airplanes trudging a crash-and-burn path where logoffs
leave fiery pock-marks in an ambiguous web world.  While "Carnivore" is
modeled after the FBI's surveillance engine, RSG-founder Alex Galloway
has shrugged off the typical hacker coat of arms, claiming to be more
interested in exploring positive models of observation than undermining
the state apparatus.

Here, RSG, like its "Open Source Art Hack" peers, reestablishes mimicry
as a beautiful, if scientifically-complex, form of defense.  But what is
it that is being defended against?  For starters, it's the infusion of
panoptic strategies into network culture.  Whether it is packet sniffing
or search engine data- cataloguing, internet users are always-already
vulnerable to the search and display of their activities and
communication.  Indeed, it is not just that Google is archiving one's
chat-group confessions, but the possibility that any and all future
actions might be monitored that invokes a Foucaultian digital
panopticon-an always-present eye casting an impact upon the moves we
make.

LAN's "Tracenoizer" clone sites exploit the abundance of unfiltered
personal information online, creating sources of mis-information about
websurfers bearing a data-based resemblance (say, a similar name) to
"Tracenoizer" users.  Filmmaker Harun Farocki, a welcome addition to the
cadre of what has become a too-tight nepotistic circle of "new media"
artists, explores these panoptic issues in his "Eye/Machine."  Exposing
the means and motives by which war machines look, Farocki pairs
interviews of surveillance pilots with sample footage.  The result is a
document of the constructed realities (read: visions) of war and the
impetus for incorporating military machinery into civilian life.

Both Knowbotic Research and Cue P. Doll have turned established search
mechanisms on their heads in creating alternative means of gathering
information about the world's major companies and organizations.
Knowbotic Research's entrancing installation has at its heart a portal
for the exposure of the crack- vulnerabilities of a public group's
server.  Plastic containers flash and buzz with varying intensity--a
comment on the physicality of the firewall--as data rolls and pops on
screen, Vegas-style.  Cue P. Doll's "CueJack" bites the tongue of the
"CueCat," a barcode scanner that delivers users at the door of retail
websites.  "CueJack" also reads barcodes, but rather than touting the
many fine products for sale by the manufacturer of the item you've
scanned, "CueJack" takes you to a database of the corporate wrong-doings
and related boycotts of said retailer.  Both Knowbotic Research's
installation and Cue P. Doll's scanner require readings with the body,
thereby making users corporeally complicit in the {art-} hack
activities.

Radioqualia calls for sonic participation in their "Free Radio Linux"
project.  Artists Adam Hyde and Honor Harger have created an online and
on-air radio station in which a computerized voice reads the Linux
operating system code--an endeavor that will take years to complete.
"Free Radio Linux" is the ultimate self-reflexive case of artists
commenting on the character and relative complexities of existing
channels of representation, distribution, and interpretation.  Their
project provides the sonic backdrop for the asking of several key
questions underscored by "Open Source Art Hack."  Perhaps most important
is the question, "What is a code?"

The Alliance for Telecommunications Industry Solutions (ATIS) defines it
as "a set of unambiguous rules specifying the manner in which data may
be represented in a discrete form."  The fact that we use the same
four-letter word to describe a system of representation that we do to
refer to social norms (see dress "code") is less a matter of irony and
more an indication of the degree to which that system of representation
is a reflection of a dominant ideology. That special milieu we've named
"network culture" is no more than a percentage of the population at
large behaving and interacting in such a way as to self- reflexively
trace their patterns of protocol-driven activity.  Seemingly mechanical
activity like the ping-pong game of one computer chatting with another
was scripted by humans who have been enculturated in a society in which
there exist elaborate codes of propriety and impropriety, in
communicative exchange, and where a sort of social Darwinism has
translated keeping up with the Joneses into keeping up with the OS's.
However phantasmatic the traces of these social scripts are upon
computer codes, their products are entirely tangible.  Hacktivism, while
admittedly entrenched in recognizing--if not following--rules of
engagement, then seems a worthwhile means of attempting to dissect the
ideological apparatuses at play in this closed circle of coded
signification.

http://www.newmuseum.org/
http://www.netartcommons.net/
http://www.thehacktivist.com/
http://www.earthcam.com/usa/newyork/timessquare/
http://www.rhizome.org/carnivore/
http://www.tracenoizer.org
http://www.cuejack.com
http://radioqualia.va.com.au/freeradiolinux/
http://www.atis.org/tg2k/
http://www.antiwargame.org
http://tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/
http://www.nyu.edu/projects/wray/wwwhack.html

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

---8<---

-- 
+++ Last Judgement Samuel + junasts@subdimension.com + 0x8D3E92DE +++


From inkblot at movealong.org  Sat Jun  1 13:26:39 2002
From: inkblot at movealong.org (The Archduke of Chicago and Subjugator of Michigan)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] I know, I know, it's Windows, but...
In-Reply-To: <E17Dtbg-0001Uf-00@bear.ruptured-duck.org>
References: <200205312202.aa94307@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> <E17Dtbg-0001Uf-00@bear.ruptured-duck.org>
Message-ID: <20020601202639.GA1892@movealong.org>

Just now Bob Bernstein made 15 LEDs in my apartment flash with this:
> 
> >>>>> On Fri, 31 May 2002, "fuckhead" == Niall Brady wrote:
> 
>   fuckhead> Am now proceeding directly to flat with beer and all
>   fuckhead> nighter before WORLD CUP AT 7.30.
> 
> Oooo. "The World Cup." Oooo. 
> 
> Fuck the World Cup. The Red Sox are in New York tonight! Rock and Roll!
> 

Fuck you and your discrete sports.  Who the hell decided that games
which are divided up into hundreds of 15-second "plays" are a good
thing?  Maybe it's a good idea for fat fucks and sixtiessurvivors who
don't have the stamina to go full-on for an hour without more than one
or two predictable breaks.

Give me soccer and give me hockey, and GTFOML, troll!

-- 
--< ((\))< >----< inkblot@movealong.org >----< http://www.movealong.org/ >--
pub  1024D/05A058E0 2002-03-07 Nate Riffe (06-Mar-2002) <inkblot@movealong.org>
     Key fingerprint = 0DAC F5CB D182 3165 D757  C466 CD42 12A8 05A0 58E0


From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Mon Jun  3 19:48:20 2002
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] I know, I know, it's Windows, but... 
In-Reply-To: Message from The Archduke of Chicago and Subjugator of Michigan 
 <inkblot@movealong.org>
   of "Sat, 01 Jun 2002 15:26:39 CDT." <20020601202639.GA1892@movealong.org> 
References: <200205312202.aa94307@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> 
 <E17Dtbg-0001Uf-00@bear.ruptured-duck.org>  <20020601202639.GA1892@movealong.org>
Message-ID: <E17F4Mu-0002NJ-00@bear.ruptured-duck.org>

>>>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, "Nate Who?" == The Archduke of Chicago and Subjugator
>>>>> of Michigan wrote:

  Nate Who?> Give me soccer and give me hockey, and GTFOML, troll!

Oh Lord Why Do I Bother? I know - it's for the children, I do know that. But 
take this cup from me Lord, please.

Nate, try to pay attention. Notice what happens to impudent wet behind the 
ears pups. Pay attention. Learn something. Try it. Because the alternative, 
running your mouth like you are, is getting to the point wherein even I am 
EMBARRASSED FOR YOU. Please. Do us all a favor. The next time you feel 
compelled to post here, don't.

  Nate Who?> -- --< ((\))< >----< inkblot@movealong.org >----<

# host www.movealong.org   
www.movealong.org has no A record (Authoritative answer)

<yawn> Say goodnite Nate. Goodnite Nate.

 
-- 
  "...the plain-talking nationalist from Texas is still the world's
   greatest security against a new age of anarchy and terror, made
   more lethal by weapons of mass destruction and the evil men who
   would gladly deploy them. The danger is not that Bush won't be
   educated by Colin Powell into being a more mellifluous and moderate
   statesman. The danger is that he will." 
                                                    
                                              Andrew Sullivan




From inkblot at movealong.org  Mon Jun  3 21:19:17 2002
From: inkblot at movealong.org (The Archduke of Chicago and Subjugator of Michigan)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] I know, I know, it's Windows, but...
In-Reply-To: <E17F4Mu-0002NJ-00@bear.ruptured-duck.org>
References: <200205312202.aa94307@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> <E17Dtbg-0001Uf-00@bear.ruptured-duck.org> <20020601202639.GA1892@movealong.org> <E17F4Mu-0002NJ-00@bear.ruptured-duck.org>
Message-ID: <20020604041917.GA11146@movealong.org>

Just now Bob Bernstein made 15 LEDs in my apartment flash with this:
> 
> >>>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, "Nate Who?" == The Archduke of Chicago and Subjugator
> >>>>> of Michigan wrote:
> 
>   Nate Who?> Give me soccer and give me hockey, and GTFOML, troll!
> 
> Oh Lord Why Do I Bother? I know - it's for the children, I do know that. But 
> take this cup from me Lord, please.
> 
> Nate, try to pay attention. Notice what happens to impudent wet behind the 
> ears pups. Pay attention. Learn something. Try it. Because the alternative, 
> running your mouth like you are, is getting to the point wherein even I am 
> EMBARRASSED FOR YOU. Please. Do us all a favor. The next time you feel 
> compelled to post here, don't.

Ha ha.

Hint #1: I don't watch sports.
Hint #2: You respond to everything.

Now go figure out what just happened.

> 
>   Nate Who?> -- --< ((\))< >----< inkblot@movealong.org >----<
> 
> # host www.movealong.org   
> www.movealong.org has no A record (Authoritative answer)

Do you know me?  Do you know what my situation is for the next few
weeks?  There are people on this list who do, and you're not one of
them.  Get over yourself.

-- 
--< ((\))< >----< inkblot@movealong.org >----< http://www.movealong.org/ >--
pub  1024D/05A058E0 2002-03-07 Nate Riffe (06-Mar-2002) <inkblot@movealong.org>
     Key fingerprint = 0DAC F5CB D182 3165 D757  C466 CD42 12A8 05A0 58E0


From nick at zork.net  Mon Jun  3 22:18:21 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
Message-ID: <20020604051821.GS24561@zork.net>

Ha ha mac dot commmm

----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net -----

brian_grant@mac.com has been removed from CrackMonkey.


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Mon Jun  3 22:25:16 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Don Marti Has To Be Naked To Get Into The Met
In-Reply-To: <87sn43lwk0.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <87sn43lwk0.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <20020604052516.GT24561@zork.net>

begin  Last Judgement Samuel  quotation:
> While "Carnivore" is modeled after the FBI's surveillance engine,
> RSG-founder Alex Galloway has shrugged off the typical hacker coat
> of arms, claiming to be more interested in exploring positive models
> of observation than undermining the state apparatus.

	Ha ha postitive models of observation

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From zcopley at cyberstein.org  Mon Jun  3 22:36:31 2002
From: zcopley at cyberstein.org (Zach Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
Message-ID: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>


Fuck, I wish you would set the reply-to back to something reasonable.

-------------- next part --------------
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>
Subject: Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
Date: 03 Jun 2002 22:34:30 -0700
Size: 1026
Url: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/crackmonkey/attachments/20020603/f98bcddd/attachment.mht
-------------- next part --------------


-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'

From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu  Mon Jun  3 22:58:59 2002
From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian D. Hicks)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Setting Orange, the 9th of Confusion, 3168, Zach Copley wrote:
> >>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt <nick@zork.net> writes:
> 
>     NM> Ha ha mac dot commmm ----- Forwarded message from
> 
> ShutttupP!!!  It's a perfectly good goddamn service provider.  And
> it's free -- to Mackertoshers.

You mean there's still a free e-mail address I can get but haven't yet?

- -- 
Brian Hicks <http://eight.dhs.org> <hick0142@umn.edu> <PGP:0xADDD1F16> 
	This message would self-destruct in 10 seconds, except I'm 
	   not that clever.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE8/FchjLHcIq3dHxYRAp02AKCckCuPvxHdrxnwoJ6cuRV8904rQwCfbU0B
F5qix4img0+7tb6Fs3iIkDc=
=hxa8
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From crack at phreedom.net  Mon Jun  3 23:43:44 2002
From: crack at phreedom.net (David Ulevitch)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Have Jack Stick it To Ya!
In-Reply-To: <20020601222055.GA3791@columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <david.is.elite.LNX.4.44.0206032341060.2922-100000@phreedom.net>

On Sat, 1 Jun 2002 mwmiller@columbus.rr.com wrote:

> On Fri, May 31, 2002 at 11:53:14PM -0700, Sam Phillips <sam@dasbistro.com> wrote:
> > http://www.dasbistro.com/~sam/img/jack-valenti.png
> > http://www.dasbistro.com/~sam/img/jack-valenti.ps
>
> So, why *did* you decide to make a Postscript document that was just a
> big bitmap image, again?

Esp. when an equiv. PDF file is 68K.

fucker.

-davidu





From sneakums at zork.net  Tue Jun  4 00:52:15 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> ("Brian D. Hicks"'s
 message of "Tue, 4 Jun 2002 00:58:59 -0500")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org>
Message-ID: <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Brian D. Hicks quotation:

> On Setting Orange, the 9th of Confusion, 3168, Zach Copley wrote:
>> >>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt <nick@zork.net> writes:
>> 
>>     NM> Ha ha mac dot commmm ----- Forwarded message from
>> 
>> ShutttupP!!!  It's a perfectly good goddamn service provider.  And
>> it's free -- to Mackertoshers.
>
> You mean there's still a free e-mail address I can get but haven't yet?

I hear the client software only runs on obsolete microkernel-based OSes.

-- 
"I am the stick in your brain-spokes.  Happy landings!"
	-- Eamon de Valera


From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Tue Jun  4 02:05:25 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "sneaky" == Sean Neakums <sneakums@zork.net> writes:

    sneaky> I hear the client software only runs on obsolete
    sneaky> microkernel-based OSes.

Okay troll bitch.  You know OS X is not a microkernel.

Monolithic kernels are not even worth studying anymore.  That is the
conclusion among computer scientists in all of The universe.  Yeah,
boring microkernels  work.  They are fast at access.  So is MSDOS!
Linux is the DOS of Unix.  Yeah.  You get good arfsome performance
when running cat and ls.

My Mac kicks your weak little linux box up and down the street like a
little prissy dog.  I have a tiny, basic developer box.  I could code
an application in Cocoa so fast that it would have your stinky mono
kernel maxed out with recompiles every few seconds trying to keep up
with me -- while you program in completely ASS frameworks like Gnome
or KDE, which are about one-step removed from the old ancient Mac OS
toolkit and Microsoft MFC.  SUPER LAME.  How can you linux guys put up
with all this Microsoft idolatry?  You LOVE MS.  You want to be just
like them.  You want your computers to look like Windows, but you
want to call it Linux.  Jesus.  You're just lucky you don't have to
program in X-Windows.  Actually you don't program.  That's why you
don't get the concept of developer performance.  What you do is run a
bunch of servers that other people wrote and then look for the fastest
way to serve up a file or some trivial crap like that.  So what that
amounts to is literally comparing Apples and Oranges.  I don't think
Linux qualifies as an Orange.  It's more like some kind of bean.

So fuck, don't give me any shit about microkernel.  It's a good idea,
and NeXT refined it to the point of ideal tradeoff between micro and
mono.  I hate how you people malign Apple as having a Microkernel.
Have you ever seen the Mach source code?  It's total shit. You can't
blame that on Apple.  It's badly written shit by a bunch of grad
students.  NeXT took it and fixed it into something that kicks ass!
Go look at the Darwin source.  In fact, go look at the Darwin source
and compare it to the Linux source and see what you think.

There are NeXT machines under regular load that haven't had to be
rebooted in nearly a DECADE.  So I think it's safe to say the
architecture works.

That's the thing with you guys.  You need to learn about developer and
user performance.  That's honestly all that matters with a machine.
Benchmarks are good for convincing your boss to do some bullshit,
while you put your hands down your pants and grope your balls,
alternately sniffing them, as he reads your lpr printout.  And that's
about it.

Jake

-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'



From sneakums at zork.net  Tue Jun  4 02:30:25 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> (Zachary Copley's message of
 "04 Jun 2002 02:05:25 -0700")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <6uit4ztmq6.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Zachary Copley quotation:

>>>>>> "sneaky" == Sean Neakums <sneakums@zork.net> writes:
>
>     sneaky> I hear the client software only runs on obsolete
>     sneaky> microkernel-based OSes.
>
> Okay troll bitch.  You know OS X is not a microkernel.

Of course I was trolling.  But OS X is a bunch of NeXT stuff that runs
on top of a BSD-compatible super-server running on a Mach microkernel.
No number of rants can change that.  That fact that Mach is a big fat
first-generation microkernel is unfortunate, but you're kind of stuck
with it, at least for now.

And as for monolithic kernels not being "worth studying", well, so
what?  A common property of solved problems is that they are generally
not worth fucking about with any longer.  That's when people get out
the oil and nipple clamps and get down and dirty with things like
microkernels and secret console bootblocks.


Now, I can't back it up with numbers or verbose rants, but I happen to
believe that an L4-based microkernel OS could seriously rock.  I doubt
there will ever be one that I could want to use, but them's the
breaks.  I like Debian GNU a lot, and it's only a minor inconvenience
that it has a run-time dependency on a Linux kernel.

So then the remainder of your message is your usual NeXT/Apple
propaganda, which was real funny the first time you posted it to
Pigdog, but now it's just boring.

-- 
"Windows NT is 'case-preserving', but not 'case-distinguishing'.
 Translation: it's a lot like ass."
	-- Eamon de Valera


From junasts at subdimension.com  Tue Jun  4 03:18:07 2002
From: junasts at subdimension.com (Last Judgement Samuel)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Mackertosh Toy Computer Bastard
In-Reply-To: <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> (Zachary Copley's message of
 "04 Jun 2002 02:05:25 -0700")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <87r8jnuz34.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

>>>>> "ZC" == Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com> writes:

    ZC> My Mac kicks your weak little linux box up and down the street
    ZC> like a little prissy dog.  I have a tiny, basic developer box.
    ZC> I could code an application in Cocoa so fast that it would
    ZC> have your stinky mono kernel maxed out with recompiles every
    ZC> few seconds trying to keep up with me -- while you program in
    ZC> completely ASS frameworks like Gnome or KDE, which are about
    ZC> one-step removed from the old ancient Mac OS toolkit and
    ZC> Microsoft MFC.

Fuck you, you beret-wearing turtleneck Mac fuck! You're just all horny
for the Mackertosh because you want to be buggered by that Mister
Steave Joabs all day long, with his sexy man glasses. When Steave
Joabs comes back from the hunt to UnbearableWorld 2002 in the Moscone
Centur, all you Mackertosh Dieters present up your little blue behinds
like lady BABOONS! Hundreds and hundreds of little scarlet bungholes
for Alpha Steave to choose!

Mackertosh computers are all about sheister fixation, anyways! They're
all shaped like fancy Euro-terlets, and they've even got one-button
flush mouse capability built right in. Everybody knows this! The
Ph.D. theses are 18 years old on this issue. Check the goddamned
Library of Congress if you don't believe me!

So why don't you just take your Wacom tablet and your Kai's Super
Gluesniffer and your Helicopter Rescue and your Sherlock and your
Cyberdog and go play POOPY SCAT GAMES with them, you goddamned Dutch
design student!

Anyways, we've got the GNUstep, which is better than any gray-market
Rohypnol-pill-laden Cocamoco ANY DAY OF THE WEEK, because it's got the
Secret Ingredient: F*****m. Not to mention that we've got THREE MOUSE
BUTTONS. Three! Three flush speeds! And no Apple Menu! Never!

So, sure, OK, everybody's still all junkied for the squishy flat
fvwm95 Gnome GTKDE thing, because there's some moronical Linux school
of thought that with the proper duck calls and decoys we can make all
the Winders mouth breathers come running and play with our
OS. "There's no trash can! We'll never trick the Winders users if
there's no trash can!" We spray Linux computers with special Secretary
Pheromones in the hopes that Winders users will come sniff them. But
they don't! And never will! And who cares!

We have GNUstep! Just nobody knows it!

    ZC> Benchmarks are good for convincing your boss to do some
    ZC> bullshit, while you put your hands down your pants and grope
    ZC> your balls, alternately sniffing them, as he reads your lpr
    ZC> printout.  And that's about it.

You know, I wonder if Linus Torvalds does this too.

                                       -- Last Judgement Samuel

-- 
+++ Last Judgement Samuel + junasts@subdimension.com + 0x8D3E92DE +++


From zen at zork.net  Tue Jun  4 03:31:56 2002
From: zen at zork.net (George Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Mackertosh Toy Computer Bastard
In-Reply-To: <87r8jnuz34.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <87r8jnuz34.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <20020604103156.GA31752@zork.net>

begin  Last Judgement Samuel  uuencoded stream:
> Mackertosh computers are all about sheister fixation, anyways! They're
> all shaped like fancy Euro-terlets, and they've even got one-button
> flush mouse capability built right in. Everybody knows this! The
> Ph.D. theses are 18 years old on this issue. Check the goddamned
> Library of Congress if you don't believe me!
> 
> Anyways, we've got the GNUstep, which is better than any gray-market
> Rohypnol-pill-laden Cocamoco ANY DAY OF THE WEEK, because it's got the
> Secret Ingredient: F*****m. Not to mention that we've got THREE MOUSE
> BUTTONS. Three! Three flush speeds! And no Apple Menu! Never!

ha ha did you hear the one about the mac user who drove a car off the
road cause he didnt know what to do with the other pedal ha ha

-- 
http://www.georgebox.org - Where I keep all my stuff.
http://www.emgnulation.org - Freedom in the emulation community.
http://www.robotfindskitten.org - Gaming innovation.
                george@georgebox.org


From bradyn at maths.tcd.ie  Tue Jun  4 05:06:43 2002
From: bradyn at maths.tcd.ie (Niall Brady)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] I know, I know, it's Windows, but...
In-Reply-To: <20020531210829.GU11576@zork.net>
References: <20020531204425.GA14638@lxbox3.embody.org> <200205312202.aa94307@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> <20020531210829.GU11576@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020604120643.GA89484@walton.maths.tcd.ie>

On Fri, May 31, 2002 at 02:08:29PM -0700, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote:
> 
> 	Ha ha.  You've gotta laugh at bicycle messengers who race on
> flat terrain.  WHat a joke.  You bastiches would pop a lung in San
> Francisco.

True, but only 'cos we'd be confused with the lack of Oirish
wouldyalookatthetitsonthatarrrohthere'sabikeTARGET taxi drivers and
noseful of Bros 400 27 times a day and all that and would instead
be sitting down for a nice smoke ahhh.

-- 
	Niall


From bradyn at maths.tcd.ie  Tue Jun  4 05:10:37 2002
From: bradyn at maths.tcd.ie (Niall Brady)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] I know, I know, it's Windows, but...
In-Reply-To: <6u3cw8oxii.fsf@zork.zork.net>
References: <200205312134.aa91935@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> <6u3cw8oxii.fsf@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020604121037.GB89484@walton.maths.tcd.ie>

On Fri, May 31, 2002 at 09:47:17PM +0100, Sean Neakums wrote:
> 
> Now look here, you boxty-munching twit.  Thus far your presence on

So what you're really saying is you agree that having a front-end
on a system that was originally intended to separate content and
hence the document creation process from layout insofar as possible,
and which really reverses the system which you should be using, is
pants.  Or maybe it's just that you're confused about Roy Keane.

-- 
	Niall


From bradyn at maths.tcd.ie  Tue Jun  4 05:13:19 2002
From: bradyn at maths.tcd.ie (Niall Brady)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] I know, I know, it's Windows, but...
In-Reply-To: <E17Dtbg-0001Uf-00@bear.ruptured-duck.org>
References: <200205312202.aa94307@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> <E17Dtbg-0001Uf-00@bear.ruptured-duck.org>
Message-ID: <20020604121319.GC89484@walton.maths.tcd.ie>

On Fri, May 31, 2002 at 05:06:43PM -0400, pigfucker wrote:
> 
> Fuck the World Cup. The Red Sox are in New York tonight! Rock and Roll!

You LOSE!(*)

-- 
	Niall

* above statement may be invalid on Yankees systems.


From sneakums at zork.net  Tue Jun  4 05:25:07 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] I know, I know, it's Windows, but...
In-Reply-To: <20020604121037.GB89484@walton.maths.tcd.ie> (Niall Brady's
 message of "Tue, 4 Jun 2002 13:10:37 +0100")
References: <200205312134.aa91935@salmon.maths.tcd.ie>
	<6u3cw8oxii.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<20020604121037.GB89484@walton.maths.tcd.ie>
Message-ID: <6u8z5vten0.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Niall Brady quotation:

> So what you're really saying is you agree that having a front-end on
> a system that was originally intended to separate content and hence
> the document creation process from layout insofar as possible, and
> which really reverses the system which you should be using, is
> pants.

I see nothing wrong with an editor presenting a document as it would
be printed so long as editing commands operate on the document's
markup structure.  I can see such an editor making fixing up
page-breaks, widows and orphans and so forth much less of an iterative
pain in the ass.

-- 
"Bring me a doctor; I have a hole in my head."
	-- Eamon de Valera


From carlos at laviola.org  Tue Jun  4 06:07:15 2002
From: carlos at laviola.org (Carlos Laviola)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] I know, I know, it's Windows, but...
In-Reply-To: <E17F4Mu-0002NJ-00@bear.ruptured-duck.org>
References: <200205312202.aa94307@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> <E17Dtbg-0001Uf-00@bear.ruptured-duck.org> <20020601202639.GA1892@movealong.org> <E17F4Mu-0002NJ-00@bear.ruptured-duck.org>
Message-ID: <20020604130715.GA13986@laviola.org>

On Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 10:48:20PM -0400, Bob Bernstein wrote:
> # host www.movealong.org   
> www.movealong.org has no A record (Authoritative answer)

Mail gets delivered when there are MX records or directly to the machine
in case there's none, DNS boy.

-- 
 _ _  _| _  _  | _   . _ | _   icq -> bad -|- jabber -> good
(_(_|| |(_)_)  |(_|\/|(_)|(_|  Support Scientology! http://xenu.net


From carlos at laviola.org  Tue Jun  4 06:10:37 2002
From: carlos at laviola.org (Carlos Laviola)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Have Jack Stick it To Ya!
In-Reply-To: <david.is.elite.LNX.4.44.0206032341060.2922-100000@phreedom.net>
References: <20020601222055.GA3791@columbus.rr.com> <david.is.elite.LNX.4.44.0206032341060.2922-100000@phreedom.net>
Message-ID: <20020604131037.GB13986@laviola.org>

On Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 11:43:44PM -0700, David Ulevitch wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Jun 2002 mwmiller@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, May 31, 2002 at 11:53:14PM -0700, Sam Phillips <sam@dasbistro.com> wrote:
> > > http://www.dasbistro.com/~sam/img/jack-valenti.png
> > > http://www.dasbistro.com/~sam/img/jack-valenti.ps
> >
> > So, why *did* you decide to make a Postscript document that was just a
> > big bitmap image, again?
> 
> Esp. when an equiv. PDF file is 68K.

I think I'm not alone when I say out loud,

 ___        _     ___ ___  ___                _ 
| __|  _ __| |__ | _ \   \| __|  __ _ _ _  __| |
| _| || / _| / / |  _/ |) | _|  / _` | ' \/ _` |
|_| \_,_\__|_\_\ |_| |___/|_|   \__,_|_||_\__,_|
                                                
              _    _                     _      _     _         _ 
 __ _ ___  __| |__| |__ _ _ __  _ _     /_\  __| |___| |__  ___| |
/ _` / _ \/ _` / _` / _` | '  \| ' \   / _ \/ _` / _ \ '_ \/ -_)_|
\__, \___/\__,_\__,_\__,_|_|_|_|_||_| /_/ \_\__,_\___/_.__/\___(_)
|___/                                                             


Or am I?

-- 
 _ _  _| _  _  | _   . _ | _   icq -> bad -|- jabber -> good
(_(_|| |(_)_)  |(_|\/|(_)|(_|  Support Scientology! http://xenu.net


From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Jun  4 07:20:47 2002
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] I know, I know, it's Windows, but...
In-Reply-To: <20020604130715.GA13986@laviola.org>
References: <200205312202.aa94307@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> <E17Dtbg-0001Uf-00@bear.ruptured-duck.org> <20020601202639.GA1892@movealong.org> <E17F4Mu-0002NJ-00@bear.ruptured-duck.org> <20020604130715.GA13986@laviola.org>
Message-ID: <20020604142047.GA23785@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Carlos Laviola (carlos@laviola.org):

> Mail gets delivered when there are MX records or directly to the machine
> in case there's none, DNS boy.

In the absence of an A record, what does "directly to the machine" mean?
Please don't say "CNAME", or I may have to LART you.

-- 
Cheers,      "On the face of it, Microsoft complaining about the source license 
Rick Moen    used by Linux is like the event horizon calling the kettle black."
rick@linuxmafia.com             -- Adam Barr, former Microsoft Corp. programmer


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Tue Jun  4 07:32:31 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <20020604143231.GU24561@zork.net>

begin  Zachary Copley  quotation:
> My Mac kicks your weak little linux box up and down the street like
> a little prissy dog.  I have a tiny, basic developer box.  I could
> code an application in Cocoa so fast that it would have your stinky
> mono kernel maxed out with recompiles every few seconds trying to
> keep up with me -- while you program in completely ASS frameworks
> like Gnome or KDE, which are about one-step removed from the old
> ancient Mac OS toolkit and Microsoft MFC.  

	Stop coming on so strong!  I'm not going to hire you!  Why
would I hire you when you come on so strong?  

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From joakim at avmaria.com  Tue Jun  4 07:10:27 2002
From: joakim at avmaria.com (Joakim Ziegler)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
	[!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
	notification]
In-Reply-To: <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> 
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>

On Tue, 2002-06-04 at 04:05, Zachary Copley wrote:

> My Mac kicks your weak little linux box up and down the street like a
> little prissy dog.  I have a tiny, basic developer box.  I could code
> an application in Cocoa so fast that it would have your stinky mono
> kernel maxed out with recompiles every few seconds trying to keep up
> with me -- while you program in completely ASS frameworks like Gnome
> or KDE, which are about one-step removed from the old ancient Mac OS
> toolkit and Microsoft MFC.  SUPER LAME.  How can you linux guys put up
> with all this Microsoft idolatry?  You LOVE MS.  You want to be just
> like them.  You want your computers to look like Windows, but you
> want to call it Linux.  Jesus.  You're just lucky you don't have to
> program in X-Windows.  Actually you don't program.  That's why you
> don't get the concept of developer performance.  What you do is run a
> bunch of servers that other people wrote and then look for the fastest
> way to serve up a file or some trivial crap like that.  So what that
> amounts to is literally comparing Apples and Oranges.  I don't think
> Linux qualifies as an Orange.  It's more like some kind of bean.

So, does the Mac OS X GUI toolkit still require you to place your
interface widgets on absolute coordinates? The MacOS X HIGs seem to
indicate that this is the case.

If so: THAT FUCKING SUCKS.

Even Windows is not quite that stupid, AFAIK, and more advanced stuff
like GTK+'s box packing model or blue-sky things like Javur's springs
and struts system (which was abandoned before they released Swing, for
being "too complex") inspired by TeX' box system, has been available for
years and years. "No, let's just make a UI that specifies positions in
absolute pixels! That's the right way to make the most user friendly OS
on earth, by making sure nothing will ever fucking scale intelligently!
And let's make all our buttons huge and bubbly and looking like some
sort of candy, the sort of similarity that's responsible for thousands
of toddler deaths every year!

Oh, and it falls over and crashes a lot, too. The kernel might be UNIX
in BIG-ASSED METAL LETTERS, but that helps very little when you can't
reboot because the process "finder" is not responding or whatever such
bullshit.

-- 
  The Private Joakim Ziegler - Not Speaking For Anyone But Myself
ziegler@e.fix.no - http://www.avmaria.com - Radagast@Undernet&GIMPnet
http://www.avmaria.com/ - http://www.fix.no/ - http://www.gnome.org/
		



From nick at zork.net  Tue Jun  4 07:53:03 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:11 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
Message-ID: <20020604145303.GV24561@zork.net>

No more dirty toilet dutch art students.  Goddamn you, Copley!  You
came on too strong and scared him away!  Now you'll *never* get a job
in the mackertosh dieterhouse!

----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net -----

dweazle@themirror.nl has been removed from CrackMonkey.


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From jim at musenki.com  Tue Jun  4 09:29:02 2002
From: jim at musenki.com (Jim Thompson)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <6uit4ztmq6.fsf@zork.zork.net>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org>
	<6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6uit4ztmq6.fsf@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <15612.60110.702796.656154@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

> Of course I was trolling.  But OS X is a bunch of NeXT stuff that runs
> on top of a BSD-compatible super-server running on a Mach microkernel.
> No number of rants can change that.  That fact that Mach is a big fat
> first-generation microkernel is unfortunate, but you're kind of stuck
> with it, at least for now.

You've got it backwards, bucky-boy.  OS X is a bunch of Apple stuff
runnng alongside a bunch of FreeBSD stuff, all running over the top of
a bunch of NeXT stuff.

> Now, I can't back it up with numbers or verbose rants, but I happen to
> believe that an L4-based microkernel OS could seriously rock.  I doubt
> there will ever be one that I could want to use, but them's the
> breaks.  I like Debian GNU a lot, and it's only a minor inconvenience
> that it has a run-time dependency on a Linux kernel.

Even Linus and Microsoft think microkernels are interesting.  (Guess
where all the Mach people went!?!)

-- 
"Perl is basically TECO-99."  ---Barry Shein



From jim at musenki.com  Tue Jun  4 09:36:50 2002
From: jim at musenki.com (Jim Thompson)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Mackertosh Toy Computer Bastard
In-Reply-To: <87r8jnuz34.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org>
	<6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<87r8jnuz34.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <15612.60578.754661.92267@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

Last Judgement Samuel writes:
> >>>>> "ZC" == Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com> writes:
> 
>     ZC> My Mac kicks your weak little linux box up and down the street
>     ZC> like a little prissy dog.  I have a tiny, basic developer box.
>     ZC> I could code an application in Cocoa so fast that it would
>     ZC> have your stinky mono kernel maxed out with recompiles every
>     ZC> few seconds trying to keep up with me -- while you program in
>     ZC> completely ASS frameworks like Gnome or KDE, which are about
>     ZC> one-step removed from the old ancient Mac OS toolkit and
>     ZC> Microsoft MFC.
> 
> Fuck you, you beret-wearing turtleneck Mac fuck! You're just all horny
> for the Mackertosh because you want to be buggered by that Mister
> Steave Joabs all day long, with his sexy man glasses. When Steave
> Joabs comes back from the hunt to UnbearableWorld 2002 in the Moscone
> Centur, all you Mackertosh Dieters present up your little blue behinds
> like lady BABOONS! Hundreds and hundreds of little scarlet bungholes
> for Alpha Steave to choose!

OK, but given your choice, would you rather be buggered to death by:

    a) Bill Gates and Steve "Developers Developers Developers" Balmer
    b) Linux Torvalds and Alan Cox
    c) Richard Stalman and Eben Moglen
    d) Scott McNeally
    e) Steve Jobs

Choose your religion, and choose wisely.

> So, sure, OK, everybody's still all junkied for the squishy flat
> fvwm95 Gnome GTKDE thing, because there's some moronical Linux school
> of thought that with the proper duck calls and decoys we can make all
> the Winders mouth breathers come running and play with our
> OS. "There's no trash can! We'll never trick the Winders users if
> there's no trash can!" We spray Linux computers with special Secretary
> Pheromones in the hopes that Winders users will come sniff them. But
> they don't! And never will! And who cares!

The "trash can" is a MacOS fixation, implemented badly in windows as
the "wastebasket"

> We have GNUstep! Just nobody knows it!

GNUstep bloats, and suffers the ill-hand of idolatry to NeXTstep,
which is how we got here, no?

-- 
"Perl is basically TECO-99."  ---Barry Shein



From claviola at ax.net.br  Tue Jun  4 09:58:17 2002
From: claviola at ax.net.br (Carlos Laviola)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] I know, I know, it's Windows, but...
In-Reply-To: <20020604142047.GA23785@linuxmafia.com>
References: <200205312202.aa94307@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> <E17Dtbg-0001Uf-00@bear.ruptured-duck.org> <20020601202639.GA1892@movealong.org> <E17F4Mu-0002NJ-00@bear.ruptured-duck.org> <20020604130715.GA13986@laviola.org> <20020604142047.GA23785@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20020604165817.GA25795@alternex.com.br>

On Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 07:20:47AM -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Carlos Laviola (carlos@laviola.org):
> 
> > Mail gets delivered when there are MX records or directly to the machine
> > in case there's none, DNS boy.
> 
> In the absence of an A record, what does "directly to the machine" mean?

No no.  You see, DNS boy there searched for an A record for
'www.movealong.org'.  Now, Mr. Riffe's e-mail address is
inkblot@movealong.org, not inkblot@www.movealong.org.  I was referring
to the case of, say, claviola@godzilla.alternex.com.br.

-- 
Carlos Laviola <claviola@ax.net.br>
AlterNex S/A - (21) 2515-0500


From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu  Tue Jun  4 10:33:07 2002
From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian D. Hicks)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Mackertosh Toy Computer Bastard
In-Reply-To: <15612.60578.754661.92267@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <87r8jnuz34.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <15612.60578.754661.92267@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <20020604173307.GD14322@8ball.wox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Setting Orange, the 9th of Confusion, 3168, Jim Thompson wrote:
> Last Judgement Samuel writes:
> > So, sure, OK, everybody's still all junkied for the squishy flat
> > fvwm95 Gnome GTKDE thing, because there's some moronical Linux school
> > of thought that with the proper duck calls and decoys we can make all
> > the Winders mouth breathers come running and play with our
> > OS. "There's no trash can! We'll never trick the Winders users if
> > there's no trash can!" We spray Linux computers with special Secretary
> > Pheromones in the hopes that Winders users will come sniff them. But
> > they don't! And never will! And who cares!
> 
> The "trash can" is a MacOS fixation, implemented badly in windows as
> the "wastebasket"

Yeah, but it OS/2 they had the shredder, which was all cool and shit,
because you could click a little button and it would immediately destroy
files, instead of waiting for you to empty it.

And then I used the built-in icon editor to make a new shredder icon,
and then I went through and scaled it up and down into different
resolutions so the icon would always be the same size.

It was cool.

- -- 
Brian Hicks <http://eight.dhs.org> <hick0142@umn.edu> <PGP:0xADDD1F16> 
	This message would self-destruct in 10 seconds, except I'm 
	   not that clever.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE8/PnSjLHcIq3dHxYRAvjWAKDEldPEeCiO69OaQY+/8X4DbS8GHACghPgJ
z5vssZVsCJlYUd9Mng1/2AU=
=yM+Y
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From dmarti at zgp.org  Tue Jun  4 10:41:40 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Have Jack Stick it To Ya!
In-Reply-To: <20020604131037.GB13986@laviola.org>; from carlos@laviola.org on Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 10:10:37AM -0300
References: <20020601222055.GA3791@columbus.rr.com> <david.is.elite.LNX.4.44.0206032341060.2922-100000@phreedom.net> <20020604131037.GB13986@laviola.org>
Message-ID: <20020604104140.D5645@zgp.org>

begin Carlos Laviola quotation of Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 10:10:37AM -0300:
>  ___        _     ___ ___  ___                _ 
> | __|  _ __| |__ | _ \   \| __|  __ _ _ _  __| |
> | _| || / _| / / |  _/ |) | _|  / _` | ' \/ _` |
> |_| \_,_\__|_\_\ |_| |___/|_|   \__,_|_||_\__,_|
>                                                 
>               _    _                     _      _     _         _ 
>  __ _ ___  __| |__| |__ _ _ __  _ _     /_\  __| |___| |__  ___| |
> / _` / _ \/ _` / _` / _` | '  \| ' \   / _ \/ _` / _ \ '_ \/ -_)_|
> \__, \___/\__,_\__,_\__,_|_|_|_|_||_| /_/ \_\__,_\___/_.__/\___(_)
> |___/                                                             
> 
> 
> Or am I?

  __            _      ____  ____  _____                   _ 
 / _|_   _  ___| | __ |  _ \|  _ \|  ___|   __ _ _ __   __| |
| |_| | | |/ __| |/ / | |_) | | | | |_     / _` | '_ \ / _` |
|  _| |_| | (__|   <  |  __/| |_| |  _|   | (_| | | | | (_| |
|_|  \__,_|\___|_|\_\ |_|   |____/|_|      \__,_|_| |_|\__,_|
                                                             
                 _     _                                _ 
  __ _  ___   __| | __| | __ _ _ __ ___  _ __   ___  __| |
 / _` |/ _ \ / _` |/ _` |/ _` | '_ ` _ \| '_ \ / _ \/ _` |
| (_| | (_) | (_| | (_| | (_| | | | | | | | | |  __/ (_| |
 \__, |\___/ \__,_|\__,_|\__,_|_| |_| |_|_| |_|\___|\__,_|
 |___/                                                    
    _       _       _          
   / \   __| | ___ | |__   ___ 
  / _ \ / _` |/ _ \| '_ \ / _ \
 / ___ \ (_| | (_) | |_) |  __/
/_/   \_\__,_|\___/|_.__/ \___|


-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From smcmahon at eiv.com  Tue Jun  4 10:42:14 2002
From: smcmahon at eiv.com (Shawn McMahon)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
Message-ID: <20020604174213.GD26803@eiv.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

begin  Joakim Ziegler quotation:
> 
> And let's make all our buttons huge and bubbly and looking like some
> sort of candy, the sort of similarity that's responsible for thousands
> of toddler deaths every year!

Do you have a link to the statistics on how many toddlers die from
trying to eat the screen of their parents' iMac every year?


- -- 
Shawn McMahon                    | McMahon's Laws of Linux support:
http://www.eiv.com               | 1) There's more than one way to do it
AIM: spmcmahonfedex, smcmahoneiv | 2) Somebody thinks your way is wrong
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iEYEARECAAYFAjz8+/UACgkQEcl9bQ0RMt3WLQCfY4K3e1J7A3f/xrvkiugYoGwr
DGwAoNpHv//Qmu/U7EUC7izm+EOONwkm
=4pj9
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From junasts at subdimension.com  Tue Jun  4 10:52:05 2002
From: junasts at subdimension.com (Last Judgement Samuel)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Mackertosh Toy Computer Bastard
In-Reply-To: <15612.60578.754661.92267@gargle.gargle.HOWL> (Jim Thompson's
 message of "Tue, 4 Jun 2002 11:36:50 -0500")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<87r8jnuz34.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
	<15612.60578.754661.92267@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <87d6v77wze.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

>>>>> "JT" == Jim Thompson <jim@musenki.com> writes:

    Me> Fuck you, you beret-wearing turtleneck Mac fuck! You're just all horny
    Me> for the Mackertosh because you want to be buggered by that Mister
    Me> Steave Joabs all day long, with his sexy man glasses.

    JT> OK, but given your choice, would you rather be buggered to death by:

    JT>     a) Bill Gates and Steve "Developers Developers Developers" Balmer
    JT>     b) Linux Torvalds and Alan Cox
    JT>     c) Richard Stalman and Eben Moglen
    JT>     d) Scott McNeally
    JT>     e) Steve Jobs

    JT> Choose your religion, and choose wisely.

See, but, with Free OSes, I own the system so I get to bugger
myself. Try finding THAT position on your German pornografische
webbensiten! I bet you can't!

Anyways, that Steave Joabs is a big freaky mean bastard. He'd probably
beat you around the head and shoulders while violating you, if he had
the chance. And then yell at you for not doing it right.

    Me> "There's no trash can! We'll never trick the Winders users if
    Me> there's no trash can!"

    JT> The "trash can" is a MacOS fixation, implemented badly in windows as
    JT> the "wastebasket"

Actually, I forgot that all Winders users are ecoterrorist hippies
from Seattle who only use the Recyclerator for throwing things away,
because it's more eco-friendly for the infosphere.

Reduce! Reuse! Recycle! Could you use that spreadsheet as a birthday
card and save some space in the bit landfill? Think out of the box!

Maybe we need to decorate our desktops with nuts and berries and
energy bars and Goretex outdoorswear for the Winders folk to get
interested. Maybe we could change the name to Rainforestix instead of
Linux! Or LUNAX! Then Julia Butterfly would come sit in it for 2 years
and everyone would come play bongos.

    Me> We have GNUstep! Just nobody knows it!

    JT> GNUstep bloats, and suffers the ill-hand of idolatry to NeXTstep,
    JT> which is how we got here, no?

Well, there's a reason for that idolatry. I mean, the whole reason we
have Linux is because of idolatry for the Unix. So! Just because it's
a copy, it doesn't mean it's bad.

OpenStep is a damn good development API, and the visual coding tools
for NeXTStep have never been beat. Whether you dig visual IDEs or not,
in their class, ProjectBuilder and InterfaceBuilder kick every other
IDEs ass up and down the block and back again.

Except for the Freedom, of course. ProjectCenter and Gorm are getting
there, but they've got a ways to go.

In conclusion, all GUIs are suck, poutine makes your skin oily, and
the Sexpos are gonna win the pennant. Just see if they don't.

                                      -- Last Judgement Samuel

-- 
+++ Last Judgement Samuel + junasts@subdimension.com + 0x8D3E92DE +++


From dmarti at zgp.org  Tue Jun  4 11:05:21 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Don Marti Has To Be Naked To Get Into The Met
In-Reply-To: <20020604052516.GT24561@zork.net>; from monkeymaster@crackmonkey.org on Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 10:25:16PM -0700
References: <87sn43lwk0.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20020604052516.GT24561@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020604110521.C22967@zgp.org>

begin Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco quotation of Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 10:25:16PM -0700:

> 	Ha ha postitive models of observation

The Met?  Is that like light rail?

Where's the exhibit of Security Camera that Sees Through Clothes
pictures?

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From dmarti at zgp.org  Tue Jun  4 11:37:10 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>; from joakim@avmaria.com on Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 09:10:27AM -0500
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
Message-ID: <20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org>

begin Joakim Ziegler quotation of Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 09:10:27AM -0500:
> On Tue, 2002-06-04 at 04:05, Zachary Copley wrote:
> > 
> > I could code
> > an application in Cocoa so fast that it would have your stinky mono
> > kernel maxed out with recompiles every few seconds trying to keep up
> > with me -- while you program in completely ASS frameworks like Gnome
> > or KDE, which are about one-step removed from the old ancient Mac OS
> > toolkit and Microsoft MFC.  SUPER LAME.
> 
> So, does the Mac OS X GUI toolkit still require you to place your
> interface widgets on absolute coordinates? The MacOS X HIGs seem to
> indicate that this is the case.
> 
> If so: THAT FUCKING SUCKS.
> 
> Even Windows is not quite that stupid, AFAIK, and more advanced stuff
> like GTK+'s box packing model or blue-sky things like Javur's springs
> and struts system (which was abandoned before they released Swing, for
> being "too complex") inspired by TeX' box system, has been available for
> years and years.

Zachary Copley vs. Joakim Ziegler.  Application development cage
bout.  GTK+ vs. Cocoa.  Live on stage.  Two men and one programming
problem enter.  One man leaves.  All proceeds to benefit EFF.

Are you down?

Or are you all mouth?

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From smcmahon at eiv.com  Tue Jun  4 11:55:51 2002
From: smcmahon at eiv.com (Shawn McMahon)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Mackertosh Toy Computer Bastard
In-Reply-To: <87d6v77wze.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <87r8jnuz34.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <15612.60578.754661.92267@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <87d6v77wze.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <20020604185551.GA27165@eiv.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

begin  Last Judgement Samuel quotation:
> 
> Reduce! Reuse! Recycle! Could you use that spreadsheet as a birthday
> card and save some space in the bit landfill? Think out of the box!

Taking food out of the mouths of the children of the old guy who watches
the gate at the landfill, and the guys who bulldoze the yuck.  Think of 
the children, man!


- -- 
Shawn McMahon                    | McMahon's Laws of Linux support:
http://www.eiv.com               | 1) There's more than one way to do it
AIM: spmcmahonfedex, smcmahoneiv | 2) Somebody thinks your way is wrong
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Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

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KrUAn3wfQ9POBW4w75JIW195H+9v4BSn
=CAjy
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From henrik at enberg.org  Tue Jun  4 11:00:24 2002
From: henrik at enberg.org (Henrik Enberg)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: Mackertosh Toy Computer Bastard
In-Reply-To: <20020604173307.GD14322@8ball.wox.org> ("Brian D. Hicks"'s
 message of "Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:33:07 -0500")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<87r8jnuz34.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
	<15612.60578.754661.92267@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<20020604173307.GD14322@8ball.wox.org>
Message-ID: <87ofeqkjpj.fsf@enberg.org>

"Brian D. Hicks" <hick0142@tc.umn.edu> writes:

> Yeah, but it OS/2 they had the shredder, which was all cool and shit,
> because you could click a little button and it would immediately destroy
> files, instead of waiting for you to empty it.

ha ha OS/2.

So, all over the web you'll find OS/2 zealots going on about how their
dead little OS was so much more bad-ass than windows.  How does it
compare to the all the stud-boy Unix-derivatives all us leet people use
nowdays? 

-- 
Yo mama's so stupid, she took the Pepsi challenge and chose Jif.


From jv at zork.net  Tue Jun  4 12:08:34 2002
From: jv at zork.net (Juggler Vain)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: Peer pressure: [!CrackMonkey!] Don Marti Has To Be Naked To Get Into The Met
In-Reply-To: <20020604110521.C22967@zgp.org>
References: <87sn43lwk0.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20020604052516.GT24561@zork.net> <20020604110521.C22967@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <20020604190834.GD15900@zork.net>

begin  Don Marti quotation:
> begin Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco quotation of Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 10:25:16PM -0700:
> 
> > 	Ha ha postitive models of observation
> 
> The Met?  Is that like light rail?
> 
> Where's the exhibit of Security Camera that Sees Through Clothes
> pictures?

Over here... as you enter, you may accept a transponder... screens
within display visibly lit video of patrons, except that computers
substitue "beam-split" IR imaging for individuals wearing
transponders... 

... opt into mock naturalism... add some gestapo-types, who'll cordially
inquire of those who do not opt in whether they've any thing to hide... 

... and of surveillance in general, and then specifying who holds
custody of data... contrast constituencies for dispersing data into
community (you could browse the neighbourhood on the way to a
corner-store) or Sworn Authority (which might not respond timely to your
peace-officer needs, but would collect data to prosecute)... 

... and compare overlap with constituencies inclined towards social
innoculation or quarantine... 

... but glasnost... while consensual transparency may build community:

-=-
<junasts@subdimension.com> quoted Marisa Olson (marisa@concentric.net):
-=-
".. RSG-founder Alex Galloway has shrugged off the typical hacker coat
of arms, claiming to be more interested in exploring positive models of
observation than undermining the state apparatus..."
-=-

... state apparatus rarely cherishes community, or the horse it rides in
on... so to speak... so, yes... stop the presses... privateers & peepers
preserve community in cans.  -jv... pickled

> Don Marti                                          
> http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
> dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
> KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.

p.s... ?did I mention <www.volunteerministers.org> "We'll talk to
_anyone_ for you, about _anything_"


From joakim at avmaria.com  Tue Jun  4 11:38:40 2002
From: joakim at avmaria.com (Joakim Ziegler)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
	[!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
	notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020604174213.GD26803@eiv.com>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> 
	<20020604174213.GD26803@eiv.com>
Message-ID: <1023215921.1702.16.camel@deck>

On Tue, 2002-06-04 at 12:42, Shawn McMahon wrote:
> begin  Joakim Ziegler quotation:
>> And let's make all our buttons huge and bubbly and looking like some
>> sort of candy, the sort of similarity that's responsible for thousands
>> of toddler deaths every year!

> Do you have a link to the statistics on how many toddlers die from
> trying to eat the screen of their parents' iMac every year?

Have a graph:


|= Mac OS 9 and before=
|= Windows 3.x ==
|= Windows 9x/2k=====
|= Windows XP =
|= GNOME ==========
|= KDE ====
|= Enlightenment ===================
|= MacOS X======================================/ /=== 305!
+------------------------------------------------>
Toddler death rate from display ingestion

And that's a logarithmic scale graph, too!

-- 
  The Private Joakim Ziegler - Not Speaking For Anyone But Myself
ziegler@e.fix.no - http://www.avmaria.com - Radagast@Undernet&GIMPnet
http://www.avmaria.com/ - http://www.fix.no/ - http://www.gnome.org/
		



From joakim at avmaria.com  Tue Jun  4 11:41:26 2002
From: joakim at avmaria.com (Joakim Ziegler)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
	[!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
	notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> 
	<20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck>

On Tue, 2002-06-04 at 13:37, Don Marti wrote:

> Zachary Copley vs. Joakim Ziegler.  Application development cage
> bout.  GTK+ vs. Cocoa.  Live on stage.  Two men and one programming
> problem enter.  One man leaves.  All proceeds to benefit EFF.

> Are you down?

> Or are you all mouth?

I'm down. I'd prefer the proceeds to benefit the FSF, though, but given
that Zach so loves his proprietary, freedom-stealing, art school fascist
OS, I presume it'll be hard enough to get him to agree to the proceeds
going to the EFF. After all, the DMCA *protects* Apple, since it makes
circumventing the copy protection on the Fial Cut Pro CD all illegal and
shit.

-- 
  The Private Joakim Ziegler - Not Speaking For Anyone But Myself
ziegler@e.fix.no - http://www.avmaria.com - Radagast@Undernet&GIMPnet
http://www.avmaria.com/ - http://www.fix.no/ - http://www.gnome.org/
		



From smcmahon at eiv.com  Tue Jun  4 12:14:59 2002
From: smcmahon at eiv.com (Shawn McMahon)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] ha ha Microsoft
Message-ID: <20020604191459.GA27277@eiv.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

http://www.cptech.org/at/ms/omb4jun02ms.html

"We are writing to follow up a topic from our April 8, 2002 meeting. Can
the federal government use its purchasing power to solve issues
concerning security and competition in the software market? As you know,
Microsoft has an astounding market share for desktop operating systems
and office productivity software. The Department of Justice is spending
years in court trying to restrain very modest elements of Microsoft's
monopoly abuses. There are serious problems with the Microsoft monopoly,
including those associated with harm to innovation, security, and
pricing. We request the following information to advance constructive
deliberations on this subject:"



- -- 
Shawn McMahon                    | McMahon's Laws of Linux support:
http://www.eiv.com               | 1) There's more than one way to do it
AIM: spmcmahonfedex, smcmahoneiv | 2) Somebody thinks your way is wrong
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

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nGwAn2mlKg2RkjJE1NCrKuH7eVJktjtm
=g5jE
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From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Tue Jun  4 12:18:41 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020604143231.GU24561@zork.net>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604143231.GU24561@zork.net>
Message-ID: <m28z5uhmy6.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "MMaPRoSF" == Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco
>>>>> <monkeymas\
ter@crackmonkey.org> writes:

    MMaPRoSF> Stop coming on so strong!  I'm not going to hire you!
    MMaPRoSF> Why would I hire you when you come on so strong?

Okay, I'll loosen up.  But I'll need a cocktail.  A big real big one.

Jake

-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'



From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Tue Jun  4 12:21:35 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <6uit4ztmq6.fsf@zork.zork.net>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6uit4ztmq6.fsf@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <m24rgihmtc.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "SN" == Sean Neakums <sneakums@zork.net> writes:

    SN> Of course I was trolling.  But OS X is a bunch of NeXT stuff
    SN> that runs on top of a BSD-compatible super-server running on a
    SN> Mach microkernel.  No number of rants can change that.  That
    SN> fact that Mach is a big fat first-generation microkernel is
    SN> unfortunate, but you're kind of stuck with it, at least for
    SN> now.

You dumb ass.  You don't know what the F you're talking about.  Darwin
is a fucking monolithic kernel.  So was NeXTSTEP's kernel.

http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/macosx/Darwin/General/KernelProgramming/Mac\
h/index.html

Jake


-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'



From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Tue Jun  4 12:23:44 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Mackertosh Toy Computer Bastard
In-Reply-To: <87r8jnuz34.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<87r8jnuz34.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <m2znyag85b.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "LJS" == Last Judgement Samuel <junasts@subdimension.com>
>>>>> writes:

    LJS> Anyways, we've got the GNUstep, which is better than any
    LJS> gray-market Rohypnol-pill-laden Cocamoco ANY DAY OF THE WEEK,
    LJS> because it's got the Secret Ingredient: F*****m. Not to
    LJS> mention that we've got THREE MOUSE BUTTONS. Three! Three
    LJS> flush speeds! And no Apple Menu! Never!

Just for your FRENCH information, my Mackertosh has a Logitech
Trackman Marble on it with three goddamn buttons and a wheel.  I can
boot X-Windows, rootless, and run GNUStep and ugly KDE stuff right
along side my nice Cocoa apps, and even cut and paste between them.  I
also have me all them apt-get/apt-cache and dselect thangs!!!!  So I
obviously WIN.

Jake

-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'



From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Tue Jun  4 12:25:18 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Mackertosh Toy Computer Bastard
In-Reply-To: <87d6v77wze.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<87r8jnuz34.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
	<15612.60578.754661.92267@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<87d6v77wze.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <m2vg8yg82p.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "LJS" == Last Judgement Samuel <junasts@subdimension.com>
writes:

    LJS> OpenStep is a damn good development API, and the visual
    LJS> coding tools for NeXTStep have never been beat. Whether you
    LJS> dig visual IDEs or not, in their class, ProjectBuilder and
    LJS> InterfaceBuilder kick every other IDEs ass up and down the
    LJS> block and back again.

Yeah, like prissy little dogs!!!

Jake

-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'




From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Tue Jun  4 12:31:15 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <m2n0uag7ss.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "DM" == Don Marti <dmarti@zgp.org> writes:

    DM> Zachary Copley vs. Joakim Ziegler.  Application development
    DM> cage bout.  GTK+ vs. Cocoa.  Live on stage.  Two men and one
    DM> programming problem enter.  One man leaves.  All proceeds to
    DM> benefit EFF.

    DM> Are you down?

    DM> Or are you all mouth?

What's the application?  Let's have lots of widgets.

Jake

-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'



From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Tue Jun  4 12:34:52 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
Message-ID: <m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "JZ" == Joakim Ziegler <joakim@avmaria.com> writes:

    JZ> So, does the Mac OS X GUI toolkit still require you to place
    JZ> your interface widgets on absolute coordinates? The MacOS X
    JZ> HIGs seem to indicate that this is the case.

Sort of.  It's not pixel positioning.  OS X doesn't have an old
fashioned drawing system like your ancient, obsolete X-Windows.

    JZ> If so: THAT FUCKING SUCKS.

No it doesn't!  You are INSANE.  Have you ever worked with retarded
fucking layout managers in Swing?  It's idiotic.  You spend hours
adjusting crap, recompiling, adjusting crap, recompiling, and you know
what you end up with?  Something that looks like absolute SHIT.  It's
not platform independent either, so you end up building a special
what you end up with?  Something that looks like absolute SHIT.  It's
not platform independent either, so you end up building a special
tweaked version of the program for every platform you want to run your
app on.

    JZ> Even Windows is not quite that stupid, AFAIK

Well, you don't know shit then.  Windows has exact widget positioning
too, but you end up with the most ugly, crap C++ code *ever*, sprayed
directly into your source files.  You might as well let your cat pee
all over you computer.

    JZ> Oh, and it falls over and crashes a lot, too. The kernel might
    JZ> be UNIX in BIG-ASSED METAL LETTERS, but that helps very little
    JZ> when you can't reboot because the process "finder" is not
    JZ> responding or whatever such bullshit.

You're just full of FUD aren't you?  Why don't you go work for
Micro$soft or something.  I never reboot my Mac.  There have been NeXT
machines with with decade-long uptimes, and I expect OS X to get very
stable too.  besides, the kernel is Open Source, so you should just go
fix it, instead of whining all the time.  Skunk.

Jake

-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'



From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu  Tue Jun  4 12:45:52 2002
From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification] 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 04 Jun 2002 12:34:52 PDT."
             <m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> 
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
            <m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <200206041945.g54Jjqu1013869@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>

On Tue, 04 Jun 2002 12:34:52 PDT, Zachary Copley said:

> directly into your source files.  You might as well let your cat pee
> all over you computer.

So *thats* where that API that Allchin didn't want to talk about came from...


From jim at musenki.com  Tue Jun  4 12:56:46 2002
From: jim at musenki.com (Jim Thompson)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Mackertosh Toy Computer Bastard
In-Reply-To: <87d6v77wze.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org>
	<6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<87r8jnuz34.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
	<15612.60578.754661.92267@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<87d6v77wze.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <15613.7038.394726.866542@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

Last Judgement Samuel writes:
> Anyways, that Steave Joabs is a big freaky mean bastard. He'd probably
> beat you around the head and shoulders while violating you, if he had
> the chance. And then yell at you for not doing it right.

Um, "Bring out the gimp."

>     JT> GNUstep bloats, and suffers the ill-hand of idolatry to NeXTstep,
>     JT> which is how we got here, no?
> 
> Well, there's a reason for that idolatry. I mean, the whole reason we
> have Linux is because of idolatry for the Unix. So! Just because it's
> a copy, it doesn't mean it's bad.

So, we should all be running Multics, or ITS our our laptops?

> OpenStep is a damn good development API, and the visual coding tools
> for NeXTStep have never been beat. Whether you dig visual IDEs or not,
> in their class, ProjectBuilder and InterfaceBuilder kick every other
> IDEs ass up and down the block and back again.

You've obviously never been in the room with a proper lisp environment.

-- 
"Perl is basically TECO-99."  ---Barry Shein



From joakim at avmaria.com  Tue Jun  4 13:20:23 2002
From: joakim at avmaria.com (Joakim Ziegler)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
	[!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
	notification]
In-Reply-To: <m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> 
	<m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck>

On Tue, 2002-06-04 at 14:34, Zachary Copley wrote:
> Joakim Ziegler <joakim@avmaria.com> writes:

>> So, does the Mac OS X GUI toolkit still require you to place
>> your interface widgets on absolute coordinates? The MacOS X
>> HIGs seem to indicate that this is the case.
 
> Sort of.  It's not pixel positioning.  OS X doesn't have an old
> fashioned drawing system like your ancient, obsolete X-Windows.

The MacOS X HIGs say stuff like "new windows are opened 63 pixels below
the menu bar", "If stacking [buttons] vertically, leave a minimum of 12
pixels inbetween", etc. This, combined with the fact that all Mac OS X
buttons and other elements are essentially bitmap graphics, makes it
pretty primitive seeming to me. Yeah, MacOS X has a cool graphics
system, based on PDF1.4 with all its patented, non-free niftiness, but
it's not really used all that much in the UI itself.


>> If so: THAT FUCKING SUCKS.

> No it doesn't!  You are INSANE.  Have you ever worked with retarded
> fucking layout managers in Swing?  It's idiotic.  You spend hours
> adjusting crap, recompiling, adjusting crap, recompiling, and you know
> what you end up with?  Something that looks like absolute SHIT.  It's
> not platform independent either, so you end up building a special
> what you end up with?  Something that looks like absolute SHIT.  It's
> not platform independent either, so you end up building a special
> tweaked version of the program for every platform you want to run your
> app on.

The layout managers in Swing are not so good. The springs and struts
system was, before they axed it. The GTK+ box model is nice, although it
feels slightly simplistic some times. Of course, pretty much all systems
that use box-packing actually allow you to combine it with absolute
positioning inside of certain boxes, etc., so you get that if you need
it.

Also, you seem to think that it's preferable that you don't have to
recompile and test your application, because you can just make stuff
completely inflexible, and thus it'll be the same everywhere. This is
the equivalent of making fixed-width webpages with lots of <font face>
crap because it takes too long to figure out a page design that both
looks attractive and scales to the window. Guess what? Your users will
spend two orders of magnitude more time being annoyed with the interface
than you would have spent to make it work right.


>> Oh, and it falls over and crashes a lot, too. The kernel might
>> be UNIX in BIG-ASSED METAL LETTERS, but that helps very little
>> when you can't reboot because the process "finder" is not
>> responding or whatever such bullshit.
 
> You're just full of FUD aren't you?  Why don't you go work for
> Micro$soft or something.  I never reboot my Mac.  There have been NeXT
> machines with with decade-long uptimes, and I expect OS X to get very
> stable too.  besides, the kernel is Open Source, so you should just go
> fix it, instead of whining all the time.  Skunk.

Yeah, I'll go and fix the kernel so that Steve Jobs can make a
proprietary version of it and make even more money and buy even more
fucking turtlenecks. Besides, as I said, it's not the kernel that falls
over, it's the non-free stuff Apple built on top of it, like the finder.

NeXT was stable. The notion that MacOS X is NeXT should be dispensed
with, there are extremely significant differences.


>                  .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
>                  ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
>                  (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
>                   `{""}'

Oh, by the way, I thought this quote was amusing, so I figured I'd
Google for it to see what the context was. No such luck. You've polluted
Google with this signature so much that it's impossible to find the
quote without it being mixed with slices of bat.

-- 
  The Private Joakim Ziegler - Not Speaking For Anyone But Myself
ziegler@e.fix.no - http://www.avmaria.com - Radagast@Undernet&GIMPnet
http://www.avmaria.com/ - http://www.fix.no/ - http://www.gnome.org/
		



From junasts at subdimension.com  Tue Jun  4 14:04:06 2002
From: junasts at subdimension.com (Last Judgement Samuel)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> (Zachary Copley's message of
 "04 Jun 2002 12:34:52 -0700")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <87wuten4c9.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

>>>>> "ZC" == Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com> writes:

    ZC> besides, the kernel is Open Source, so you should just go fix
    ZC> it, instead of whining all the time.  Skunk.

Honh honh honh! Them's fightin' words!

                                        -- Last Judgement Samuel

P.S. I had a pet baby skunk once but it joined a juvenile delinquent
skunk gang and attained land speeds of 80 miles and hour.

-- 
+++ Last Judgement Samuel + junasts@subdimension.com + 0x8D3E92DE +++


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Tue Jun  4 14:06:14 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck>
Message-ID: <20020604210614.GA24561@zork.net>

begin  Joakim Ziegler  quotation:
> >                  .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
> >                  ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
> >                  (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
> >                   `{""}'
> 
> Oh, by the way, I thought this quote was amusing, so I figured I'd
> Google for it to see what the context was. No such luck. You've polluted
> Google with this signature so much that it's impossible to find the
> quote without it being mixed with slices of bat.

	It was an NPR interview.  I actually heard the thing myself.  

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Tue Jun  4 14:07:21 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <m28z5uhmy6.fsf@cyberstein.org>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604143231.GU24561@zork.net> <m28z5uhmy6.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <20020604210721.GB24561@zork.net>

begin  Zachary Copley  quotation:
> >>>>> "MMaPRoSF" == Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco
> >>>>> <monkeymas\
> ter@crackmonkey.org> writes:
> 
>     MMaPRoSF> Stop coming on so strong!  I'm not going to hire you!
>     MMaPRoSF> Why would I hire you when you come on so strong?
> 
> Okay, I'll loosen up.  But I'll need a cocktail.  A big real big one.

	I have been performing all sorts of high-altitude
beveratological experiments with whiskey and mountain tram cars.  I'll
send you the white paper with my results, as they may prove useful for
Operation PigLoosen.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From junasts at subdimension.com  Tue Jun  4 14:08:36 2002
From: junasts at subdimension.com (Last Judgement Samuel)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Mackertosh Toy Computer Bastard
In-Reply-To: <m2znyag85b.fsf@cyberstein.org> (Zachary Copley's message of
 "04 Jun 2002 12:23:44 -0700")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<87r8jnuz34.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
	<m2znyag85b.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <87sn42n44r.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

>>>>> "ZC" == Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com> writes:

    ZC> Just for your FRENCH information, my Mackertosh has a Logitech
    ZC> Trackman Marble on it with three goddamn buttons and a wheel.

You're just calling me French because I called you German.

If we keep this up, soon all of Europe will be in flames.

    ZC> I can boot X-Windows, rootless, and run GNUStep and ugly KDE
    ZC> stuff right along side my nice Cocoa apps, and even cut and
    ZC> paste between them.  I also have me all them apt-get/apt-cache
    ZC> and dselect thangs!!!!  So I obviously WIN.

Does that really work? Can you really use Debian package manager stuff
on the Mackertosh?

                                   -- Last Judgement Samuel

-- 
+++ Last Judgement Samuel + junasts@subdimension.com + 0x8D3E92DE +++


From junasts at subdimension.com  Tue Jun  4 14:18:40 2002
From: junasts at subdimension.com (Last Judgement Samuel)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: Subject Line Noise (Re: [Zachary Copley
 <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net:
 CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification])
In-Reply-To: <20020604210721.GB24561@zork.net> (Monkey Master and Prince
 Regent of San Francisco's message of "Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:07:21 -0700")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604143231.GU24561@zork.net>
	<m28z5uhmy6.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604210721.GB24561@zork.net>
Message-ID: <87elfmn3nz.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

>>>>> "MMaPRoSF" == Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco <monkeymaster@crackmonkey.org> writes:

    MMaPRoSF> 	I have been performing all sorts of high-altitude
    MMaPRoSF> beveratological experiments with whiskey and mountain
    MMaPRoSF> tram cars.  I'll send you the white paper with my
    MMaPRoSF> results, as they may prove useful for Operation
    MMaPRoSF> PigLoosen.

Operation PigLoosen!

Hey, so, where does the "you're coming on strong" quote come from?

                                       -- Last Judgement Samuel

-- 
+++ Last Judgement Samuel + junasts@subdimension.com + 0x8D3E92DE +++


From junasts at subdimension.com  Tue Jun  4 14:23:51 2002
From: junasts at subdimension.com (Last Judgement Samuel)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org> (Don Marti's message of "Tue, 4
 Jun 2002 11:37:10 -0700")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <87adqan3fc.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

>>>>> "DM" == Don Marti <dmarti@zgp.org> writes:

    DM> Zachary Copley vs. Joakim Ziegler.  Application development
    DM> cage bout.  GTK+ vs. Cocoa.  Live on stage.  Two men and one
    DM> programming problem enter.  One man leaves.  All proceeds to
    DM> benefit EFF.

    DM> Are you down?

    DM> Or are you all mouth?

This would be _so_cool_. I hope it becomes an article.

My money is on Zachmo, by the way. He's got a big chainsaw and that
poor Ziegler guy just has a book of matches and some scotch tape.

I hope this venue is 18+, as it's already been determined that OS X is
unsafe for children.

                                   -- Last Judgement Samuel

-- 
+++ Last Judgement Samuel + junasts@subdimension.com + 0x8D3E92DE +++


From junasts at subdimension.com  Tue Jun  4 14:41:15 2002
From: junasts at subdimension.com (Last Judgement Samuel)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: Subject Line Noise (Re: [Zachary Copley
 <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net:
 CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification])
In-Reply-To: <87elfmn3nz.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> (Last
 Judgement Samuel's message of "Tue, 04 Jun 2002 17:18:40 -0400")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604143231.GU24561@zork.net>
	<m28z5uhmy6.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604210721.GB24561@zork.net>
	<87elfmn3nz.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <871ybmn2mc.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

>>>>> "MMaPRoSF" == Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco <monkeymaster@crackmonkey.org> writes:
    MMaPRoSF> I have been performing all sorts of high-altitude
    MMaPRoSF> beveratological experiments with whiskey and mountain
    MMaPRoSF> tram cars.

Also, I think you mean "beverotological."

      http://pigdog.org/beverotology.html

                                        -- Last Judgement Samuel
      
-- 
+++ Last Judgement Samuel + junasts@subdimension.com + 0x8D3E92DE +++


From dmarti at zgp.org  Tue Jun  4 15:35:27 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck>; from joakim@avmaria.com on Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 01:41:26PM -0500
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org> <1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck>
Message-ID: <20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org>

begin Joakim Ziegler quotation of Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 01:41:26PM -0500:

> I'm down. I'd prefer the proceeds to benefit the FSF, though, but given
> that Zach so loves his proprietary, freedom-stealing, art school fascist
> OS, I presume it'll be hard enough to get him to agree to the proceeds
> going to the EFF.

If it's OK with Zach, the winner can determine which non-profit
organization gets the proceeds of this event.   Make it worth some
money to someone.  Zach, care to nominate a Jello-deprived art
school somewhere as your chosen recipient?

Are you both available some time August 13-15 in San Francisco?
If so, please state your hours of availability.

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From jim at musenki.com  Tue Jun  4 15:43:50 2002
From: jim at musenki.com (Jim Thompson)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org>
	<6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org>
	<1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck>
	<20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <15613.17062.319132.852354@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

Don Marti writes:
> begin Joakim Ziegler quotation of Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 01:41:26PM -0500:
> 
> > I'm down. I'd prefer the proceeds to benefit the FSF, though, but given
> > that Zach so loves his proprietary, freedom-stealing, art school fascist
> > OS, I presume it'll be hard enough to get him to agree to the proceeds
> > going to the EFF.
> 
> If it's OK with Zach, the winner can determine which non-profit
> organization gets the proceeds of this event.   Make it worth some
> money to someone.  Zach, care to nominate a Jello-deprived art
> school somewhere as your chosen recipient?
> 
> Are you both available some time August 13-15 in San Francisco?
> If so, please state your hours of availability.

I hereby volunteer a bottle of Moet et Chandon's "Dom Perignon" for
the winner, just to make things a bit more interesting.  If one of you
doesn't drink, or hates champagne, contact me so we can work out
something else (legal, please) that you'ld like.

Jim

-- 
"Perl is basically TECO-99."  ---Barry Shein



From junasts at subdimension.com  Tue Jun  4 15:59:58 2002
From: junasts at subdimension.com (Last Judgement Samuel)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org> (Don Marti's message of "Tue, 4
 Jun 2002 15:35:27 -0700")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org> <1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck>
	<20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <87sn42hcpd.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

>>>>> "DM" == Don Marti <dmarti@zgp.org> writes:

    DM> If it's OK with Zach, the winner can determine which
    DM> non-profit organization gets the proceeds of this event.  Make
    DM> it worth some money to someone.  Zach, care to nominate a
    DM> Jello-deprived art school somewhere as your chosen recipient?

Honh honh honh!  Don Marti == Don King!

    DM> Are you both available some time August 13-15 in San
    DM> Francisco?  If so, please state your hours of availability.

So, I think you guys should have a weigh-in pre-fight where you talk
trash to each other for the cameras.

This is going to be the programming event of the century!

                                   -- Last Judgment Samuel

-- 
+++ Last Judgement Samuel + junasts@subdimension.com + 0x8D3E92DE +++


From junasts at subdimension.com  Tue Jun  4 16:10:05 2002
From: junasts at subdimension.com (Last Judgement Samuel)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <15613.17062.319132.852354@gargle.gargle.HOWL> (Jim Thompson's
 message of "Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:43:50 -0500")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org> <1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck>
	<20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org>
	<15613.17062.319132.852354@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <87ofeqhc8i.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

>>>>> "JT" == Jim Thompson <jim@musenki.com> writes:

    JT> I hereby volunteer a bottle of Moet et Chandon's "Dom
    JT> Perignon" for the winner, just to make things a bit more
    JT> interesting.

Honh honh honh honh!

Zachmo, I bet if you win, Mr. Steave Joabs will telephone you in the
locker room after the fight, and call you an American hero.

                                         -- Last Judgement Samuel

-- 
+++ Last Judgement Samuel + junasts@subdimension.com + 0x8D3E92DE +++


From joakim at avmaria.com  Tue Jun  4 15:41:01 2002
From: joakim at avmaria.com (Joakim Ziegler)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
	[!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
	notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org> <1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck> 
	<20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck>

On Tue, 2002-06-04 at 17:35, Don Marti wrote:
> begin Joakim Ziegler quotation of Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 01:41:26PM -0500:

>> I'm down. I'd prefer the proceeds to benefit the FSF, though, but given
>> that Zach so loves his proprietary, freedom-stealing, art school fascist
>> OS, I presume it'll be hard enough to get him to agree to the proceeds
>> going to the EFF.

> If it's OK with Zach, the winner can determine which non-profit
> organization gets the proceeds of this event.   Make it worth some
> money to someone.  Zach, care to nominate a Jello-deprived art
> school somewhere as your chosen recipient?

> Are you both available some time August 13-15 in San Francisco?
> If so, please state your hours of availability.

I would like to, but I doubt I'll go to the US just to participate in
this. I guess it would depend on whether or not it's allowed to strike
your opponent with a folding chair.

Also, would one be allowed to use a language of one's choice? Such as,
say, Python?
-- 
  The Private Joakim Ziegler - Not Speaking For Anyone But Myself
ziegler@e.fix.no - http://www.avmaria.com - Radagast@Undernet&GIMPnet
http://www.avmaria.com/ - http://www.fix.no/ - http://www.gnome.org/
		



From dmarti at zgp.org  Tue Jun  4 16:32:08 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck>; from joakim@avmaria.com on Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 05:41:01PM -0500
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org> <1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck> <20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org> <1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck>
Message-ID: <20020604163208.A22644@zgp.org>

begin Joakim Ziegler quotation of Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 05:41:01PM -0500:

> I would like to, but I doubt I'll go to the US just to participate in
> this. I guess it would depend on whether or not it's allowed to strike
> your opponent with a folding chair.

We'll buy you your beverage of choice and show you around California,
too.  Zach?  What's your opinion on the chair thing?

> Also, would one be allowed to use a language of one's choice? Such as,
> say, Python?

Hell yeah.  Or a mixture of languages.  You can choose and bring
whatever tools you like.

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From junasts at subdimension.com  Tue Jun  4 16:37:03 2002
From: junasts at subdimension.com (Last Judgement Samuel)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck> (Joakim Ziegler's message of
 "04 Jun 2002 17:41:01 -0500")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org> <1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck>
	<20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org> <1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck>
Message-ID: <871ybmhazk.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

>>>>> "JZ" == Joakim Ziegler <joakim@avmaria.com> writes:

    >> Are you both available some time August 13-15 in San Francisco?
    >> If so, please state your hours of availability.

    JZ> I would like to, but I doubt I'll go to the US just to
    JZ> participate in this.

d00d! It's LinuxWorld! Also, you can go to Burning Man right
afterwards.

Anyways, it'd be a real shame for Linux to lose this contest by
default. We'd never hear the end of it. If you don't show up, there's
just gonna be a big cage, and only Zach in the middle, and he'll stand
on a turnbuckle and rant and harangue the crowd for hours about the
lameness of Linux's pseudo-threading and how great Aqua is, and then
he'd finish it off with a PowerPoint display of all his fanboy
pictures of Steve Jobs, to the tune of "Chariots of Fire."

And all these Mac weenies will be out in the street drunk on white wine
harassing Free Peoples and causing great difficulty.

And don't worry about going to San Francisco. There's a big hole in
the wall near Nuevo Laredo I can show you, and you'll get right
through without no problems from La Migra.

    JZ> Also, would one be allowed to use a language of one's choice?
    JZ> Such as, say, Python?

I thought the whole point was Gnome v. Cocoa, though.

                                    -- Last Judgement Samuel

-- 
+++ Last Judgement Samuel + junasts@subdimension.com + 0x8D3E92DE +++


From dmarti at zgp.org  Tue Jun  4 16:38:59 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <87sn42hcpd.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from junasts@subdimension.com on Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 06:59:58PM -0400
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org> <1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck> <20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org> <87sn42hcpd.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <20020604163859.B22644@zgp.org>

begin Last Judgement Samuel quotation of Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 06:59:58PM -0400:

> Honh honh honh!  Don Marti == Don King!

I partied(*) with Don King in Las Vegas.

> So, I think you guys should have a weigh-in pre-fight where you talk
> trash to each other for the cameras.

This is good.  We will weigh not your body, but your computer and
any essential reference works you choose to bring.  At the weigh-in
we will also check that your video out works with the projector.

Last Judgement Samuel, since you are neither a GTK+ nor a Mac
partisan, want to be a judge?  In addition to their on-stage role,
judges will also approve the spec document to be handed to both
programmers when the cage bout begins.

Also I need a brake drum and a 2 ft. piece of broomstick.

The Champagne is much appreciated.


(*) he walked through the Star Trek Casino with his entourage while
I was walking through going the other way with my entourage.

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From joakim at avmaria.com  Tue Jun  4 16:07:52 2002
From: joakim at avmaria.com (Joakim Ziegler)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
	[!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
	notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020604163208.A22644@zgp.org>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org> <1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck>
	<20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org> <1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck> 
	<20020604163208.A22644@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <1023232074.1579.58.camel@deck>

On Tue, 2002-06-04 at 18:32, Don Marti wrote:
> begin Joakim Ziegler quotation of Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 05:41:01PM -0500:
 
>> I would like to, but I doubt I'll go to the US just to participate in
>> this. I guess it would depend on whether or not it's allowed to strike
>> your opponent with a folding chair.

> We'll buy you your beverage of choice and show you around California,
> too.  Zach?  What's your opinion on the chair thing?

I could use a keyboard, too, if a folding chair was too much. Say, an
IBM model M.

 
>> Also, would one be allowed to use a language of one's choice? Such as,
>> say, Python?

> Hell yeah.  Or a mixture of languages.  You can choose and bring
> whatever tools you like.

I have a feeling that might be unfair, though. Although I admit I know
little of high-level languages suitable for writing GUI applications on
MacOS X. So that might skew the balance without showing the inherent
superiority of either GUI toolkit. I suspect I might need it, though,
I'm not some hotshot supercoder. In fact, I know people who would be
more suitable to taking up this challenge than me. I'm physically rather
strong, though, thus the chair request.

-- 
  The Private Joakim Ziegler - Not Speaking For Anyone But Myself
ziegler@e.fix.no - http://www.avmaria.com - Radagast@Undernet&GIMPnet
http://www.avmaria.com/ - http://www.fix.no/ - http://www.gnome.org/
		



From carton at Ivy.NET  Mon Jun  3 19:14:28 2002
From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] I know, I know, it's Windows, but...
In-Reply-To: <874rgng4p2.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
 (Last Judgement Samuel's message of "Fri, 31 May 2002 21:36:57 -0400")
References: <Running.Gag.4.33.0205311606330.21315-100000@vax.hanford.org>
 <874rgng4p2.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <oqwutf4wor.fsf@balthasar.nat>

>>>>> "ljs" == Last Judgement Samuel <junasts@subdimension.com> writes:

   ljs> who do you guys favor in the upcoming Highland Games? 

He's gone native, boys, just like Capitan Kurtz.

   ljs> McFeeley

He's crossed over and gone native, and now he hungers for the sweet
taste of ripe Canadian flesh.  Hoo boy.  I remember the last McFeeley,
on Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood.  This is not gonna be pretty.

-- 
I am an American Airline pilot.


From carton at Ivy.NET  Mon Jun  3 19:04:25 2002
From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Some people don't believe Miles Nordin
In-Reply-To: <873cw448ch.fsf@enberg.org>
 (Henrik Enberg's message of "Mon, 03 Jun 2002 18:47:58 +0200")
References: <873cw448ch.fsf@enberg.org>
Message-ID: <oq4rgj6bpy.fsf@balthasar.nat>

>>>>> "he" == Henrik Enberg <henrik@enberg.org> writes:

    he> The first generation of microkernels, which were in fact no
    he> real microkernels, are dead. 

As is the currently-released Hurd, then.  great we got that cleared
up so decisively.

    he> But there is a new generation, which uses a radically
    he> different strategy than the original (so-called) microkernels.

This L4Linux stuff was already discussed in the linuxjournal comments
section.  This ``second generation'' FUD is so fourty-hours-ago.

Also isn't this little trick the Hurd guys pulled sort of like
justin's private ``sozemonkey'' list where he and his troll friends
mock every crackmonkey post, but they do it gutlessly behind out
backs?  Hurd developers are yella.  That's the problem.

-- 
Having a slow TCP stack is sort of like being short or having a small
penis.  In a perfect world one should eventually get over it, but in
reality, not gonna happen.
		-- Leslie E. Burke


From junasts at subdimension.com  Tue Jun  4 17:23:29 2002
From: junasts at subdimension.com (Last Judgement Samuel)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020604163859.B22644@zgp.org> (Don Marti's message of "Tue, 4
 Jun 2002 16:38:59 -0700")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org> <1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck>
	<20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org>
	<87sn42hcpd.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
	<20020604163859.B22644@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <87u1oiinem.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

>>>>> "DM" == Don Marti <dmarti@zgp.org> writes:

    DM> I partied(*) with Don King in Las Vegas.

Excellent! He's probably bragging about it to Dennis Rodman right now.

    DM> Last Judgement Samuel, since you are neither a GTK+ nor a Mac
    DM> partisan, want to be a judge?

This sounds totally sweet, but I'm afraid I could never be an
impartial judge. Zach's one of my best friends and I worked with him
for years, and at one point I was his boss, so if I voted against him
it'd be like shooting myself in the foot.

Anyways, I already offered my services as personal trainer. Eye of the
Tiger! Eye of the Tiger!

So I think it would be good if Joakim "The Dream" Ziegler and Zach
"Fight Back for the Mac!" Copley wore good costumes for the
event. Like, Zach could wear a black beret and turtleneck, and Joakim
could wear a fake Unix beard and long hair and a big pillow under his
"Live Free or Die!" T-shirt.

    DM> (*) he walked through the Star Trek Casino with his entourage
    DM> while I was walking through going the other way with my
    DM> entourage.

Does she know you call her 'entourage?'

                                         -- Last Judgement Samuel
-- 
+++ Last Judgement Samuel + junasts@subdimension.com + 0x8D3E92DE +++


From jim at musenki.com  Tue Jun  4 17:35:48 2002
From: jim at musenki.com (Jim Thompson)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:12 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020604163859.B22644@zgp.org>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org>
	<6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org>
	<1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck>
	<20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org>
	<87sn42hcpd.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
	<20020604163859.B22644@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <15613.23780.839809.516877@gargle.gargle.HOWL>


Don Marti writes:
> begin Last Judgement Samuel quotation of Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 06:59:58PM -0400:
> 
> > Honh honh honh!  Don Marti == Don King!
> 
> I partied(*) with Don King in Las Vegas.

Hey, should we hold this in Vegas, at DefCon (8/2-8/4)?

Jim
(born and raised in vegas.)



From dmarti at zgp.org  Tue Jun  4 17:39:04 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <871ybmhazk.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from junasts@subdimension.com on Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 07:37:03PM -0400
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org> <1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck> <20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org> <1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck> <871ybmhazk.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <20020604173904.A19145@zgp.org>

begin Last Judgement Samuel quotation of Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 07:37:03PM -0400:

> I thought the whole point was Gnome v. Cocoa, though.

You can develop Gnome apps in many languages.

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From squinky at dasbistro.com  Tue Jun  4 17:40:43 2002
From: squinky at dasbistro.com (Not Erik)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org> <1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck> <20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org> <1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck>
Message-ID: <20020605004043.GB11197@dasbistro.com>

On Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 05:41:01PM -0500, Joakim Ziegler wrote:
> 
> I would like to, but I doubt I'll go to the US just to participate in
> this. I guess it would depend on whether or not it's allowed to strike
> your opponent with a folding chair.

If the ref doesn't see it, it didn't happen.



From joakim at avmaria.com  Tue Jun  4 17:07:17 2002
From: joakim at avmaria.com (Joakim Ziegler)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
	[!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
	notification]
In-Reply-To: 
	<87u1oiinem.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org> <1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck>
	<20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org>
	<87sn42hcpd.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
	<20020604163859.B22644@zgp.org> 
	<87u1oiinem.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <1023235640.1702.62.camel@deck>

On Tue, 2002-06-04 at 19:23, Last Judgement Samuel wrote:
> "DM" == Don Marti <dmarti@zgp.org> writes:

> So I think it would be good if Joakim "The Dream" Ziegler and Zach
> "Fight Back for the Mac!" Copley wore good costumes for the
> event. Like, Zach could wear a black beret and turtleneck, and Joakim
> could wear a fake Unix beard and long hair and a big pillow under his
> "Live Free or Die!" T-shirt.

I was thinking of a Mexican wrestling mask, really. You know, to express
my gratitude to the country that I live in at the moment, and also to
honor GNOME's Mexican origins.

Hm, there's a photo of me, drunk and quite possibly on drugs, with a
Mexican wrestling mask on, holding some Mexican guy in a headlock, and I
thought it was online somewhere, but I can't find it at the moment.

-- 
  The Private Joakim Ziegler - Not Speaking For Anyone But Myself
ziegler@e.fix.no - http://www.avmaria.com - Radagast@Undernet&GIMPnet
http://www.avmaria.com/ - http://www.fix.no/ - http://www.gnome.org/
		



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Jun  4 18:27:19 2002
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Mackertosh Toy Computer Bastard
In-Reply-To: <m2znyag85b.fsf@cyberstein.org>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <87r8jnuz34.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <m2znyag85b.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <20020605012719.GF20206@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Zachary Copley (snatcher@bearfountain.com):

> Just for your FRENCH information, my Mackertosh has a Logitech
> Trackman Marble on it with three goddamn buttons and a wheel.  I can
> boot X-Windows, rootless, and run GNUStep and ugly KDE stuff right
> along side my nice Cocoa apps, and even cut and paste between them.  I
> also have me all them apt-get/apt-cache and dselect thangs!!!! 

Honestly, this is pretty cool, other than the proprietary licensing
of key parts.  Did you ever follow up on my suggestion of trying the
"Chimera" native-Cocoa version of Mozilla?  Just curious about what you
think of it.

-- 
Cheers,   The difference between common sense and paranoia is that common sense
Rick Moen     is thinking everyone is out to get you.  That's normal; they are.
rick@linuxmafia.com      Paranoia is thinking they're conspiring.  -- J. Kegler


From mike at embody.org  Tue Jun  4 18:34:19 2002
From: mike at embody.org (mike dillon (Agent Orange Dick))
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Some people don't believe Miles Nordin
In-Reply-To: <oq4rgj6bpy.fsf@balthasar.nat>
References: <873cw448ch.fsf@enberg.org> <oq4rgj6bpy.fsf@balthasar.nat>
Message-ID: <20020605013419.GA17703@eber.embody.org>

begin  Miles Nordin quotation:
> Also isn't this little trick the Hurd guys pulled sort of like
> justin's private ``sozemonkey'' list where he and his troll friends
> mock every crackmonkey post, but they do it gutlessly behind out
> backs?  Hurd developers are yella.  That's the problem.

"sozemonkey"? You're fucking kidding, right? Have I been trolled?

-md


From robert at namodn.com  Tue Jun  4 19:54:09 2002
From: robert at namodn.com (Rob)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Mackertosh Toy Computer Bastard
In-Reply-To: <20020605012719.GF20206@linuxmafia.com>; from rick@linuxmafia.com on Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 06:27:19PM -0700
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <87r8jnuz34.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <m2znyag85b.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020605012719.GF20206@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20020604195409.G31306@namodn.com>

On Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 06:27:19PM -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Zachary Copley (snatcher@bearfountain.com):
> 
> > Just for your FRENCH information, my Mackertosh has a Logitech
> > Trackman Marble on it with three goddamn buttons and a wheel.  I can
> > boot X-Windows, rootless, and run GNUStep and ugly KDE stuff right
> > along side my nice Cocoa apps, and even cut and paste between them.  I
> > also have me all them apt-get/apt-cache and dselect thangs!!!! 
> 
> Honestly, this is pretty cool, other than the proprietary licensing
> of key parts.  Did you ever follow up on my suggestion of trying the
> "Chimera" native-Cocoa version of Mozilla?  Just curious about what you
> think of it.


Chimera is pretty cool on OS X IMO, runs much better on the original
iMac hardware than NS6 or the IE that comes with it.

That being said, David Hyatt ( the author of Chimera ) has some negative
things to say about Gecko in general compared to a well written
Objective C version ( which Omniweb currently is not, but could be ) :

http://www.mozillazine.org/weblogs/hyatt/#77245685

Interesting sidenote : IE sucks ass on Mac OS X. The company I work
for hosts a web-based application for Apple ( among others .. ) and
we had to make Apple use NS6.2, which alot of the techs there are
starting to warm up to a bit ( they have been working with Patrick
Beard on getting the MRJ plugin working in Mozilla, for instance ).

IE/MacOSX can't handle large page sizes, or rather it can but leaks memory
like mad and makes the whole machine unusable. The interface is too
damn resource-intensive to let the user take control so they cannot
kill the process. We have lots of charts measuring this which I 
won't post in a public archive ( nyah! ). 

Also a great opportunity to kick my company in the right direction
for not listening to me in the first place about not coding to
the web standards ( "IE is a standard" my ass, "it's the same IE 
on Windows and Mac" my full ass ).

Gecko may not be perfect, but it kicks ass that people ( especially
NS engineers ) are bitching about Gecko and Moz in public as much
as they are, what they have is at least as good as what's out there
now but they know it could be so much better, and they're starting
to branch out on their own to make it that way ( look out for
"deCOMtamination" and "mozilla/browser" if you don't know what
I'm talking about ).



--


From inkblot at movealong.org  Tue Jun  4 20:27:19 2002
From: inkblot at movealong.org (The Archduke of Chicago and Subjugator of Michigan)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] I know, I know, it's Windows, but...
In-Reply-To: <20020604165817.GA25795@alternex.com.br>
References: <200205312202.aa94307@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> <E17Dtbg-0001Uf-00@bear.ruptured-duck.org> <20020601202639.GA1892@movealong.org> <E17F4Mu-0002NJ-00@bear.ruptured-duck.org> <20020604130715.GA13986@laviola.org> <20020604142047.GA23785@linuxmafia.com> <20020604165817.GA25795@alternex.com.br>
Message-ID: <20020605032719.GA32446@movealong.org>

Just now Carlos Laviola made 15 LEDs in my apartment flash with this:
> On Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 07:20:47AM -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
> > Quoting Carlos Laviola (carlos@laviola.org):
> > 
> > > Mail gets delivered when there are MX records or directly to the machine
> > > in case there's none, DNS boy.
> > 
> > In the absence of an A record, what does "directly to the machine" mean?
> 
> No no.  You see, DNS boy there searched for an A record for
> 'www.movealong.org'.  Now, Mr. Riffe's e-mail address is
> inkblot@movealong.org, not inkblot@www.movealong.org.  I was referring
> to the case of, say, claviola@godzilla.alternex.com.br.

Ha ha movealong.org

-- 
--< ((\))< >----< inkblot@movealong.org >----< http://www.movealong.org/ >--
pub  1024D/05A058E0 2002-03-07 Nate Riffe (06-Mar-2002) <inkblot@movealong.org>
     Key fingerprint = 0DAC F5CB D182 3165 D757  C466 CD42 12A8 05A0 58E0


From carlos at laviola.org  Tue Jun  4 23:03:12 2002
From: carlos at laviola.org (Carlos Laviola)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <1023232074.1579.58.camel@deck>
References: <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org> <1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck> <20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org> <1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck> <20020604163208.A22644@zgp.org> <1023232074.1579.58.camel@deck>
Message-ID: <20020605060312.GB32244@laviola.org>

On Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 06:07:52PM -0500, Joakim Ziegler wrote:
> I could use a keyboard, too, if a folding chair was too much. Say, an
> IBM model M.

Aaaahhhhrr!!  If you have a spare one, give it to me, bastardo!

-- 
 _ _  _| _  _  | _   . _ | _   icq -> bad -|- jabber -> good
(_(_|| |(_)_)  |(_|\/|(_)|(_|  Support Scientology! http://xenu.net


From sneakums at zork.net  Wed Jun  5 00:51:11 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <m24rgihmtc.fsf@cyberstein.org> (Zachary Copley's message of
 "04 Jun 2002 12:21:35 -0700")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6uit4ztmq6.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m24rgihmtc.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <6uznyarwnk.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Zachary Copley quotation:

>>>>>> "SN" == Sean Neakums <sneakums@zork.net> writes:
>
>     SN> Of course I was trolling.  But OS X is a bunch of NeXT stuff
>     SN> that runs on top of a BSD-compatible super-server running on
>     SN> a Mach microkernel.  No number of rants can change that.
>     SN> That fact that Mach is a big fat first-generation
>     SN> microkernel is unfortunate, but you're kind of stuck with
>     SN> it, at least for now.
>
> You dumb ass.  You don't know what the F you're talking about.
> Darwin is a fucking monolithic kernel.  So was NeXTSTEP's kernel.

Never let mere facts get in the way of a good troll, that's my motto.

Anyway, as I recall, it was the releases of NeXTstep based on Mach 2.5
(possibly earlier; what version did NeXT start with?) that had the
separate BSD super-server.

-- 
"As the chief proponent of Java at SGI told me: 'Alex, you have to go
 where the money is'.  But I do not particularly want to go where the
 money is -- it usually does not smell nice there."
	-- Alex Stepanov


From jdub at perkypants.org  Wed Jun  5 03:47:43 2002
From: jdub at perkypants.org (Jeff Waugh)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Mackertosh Toy Computer Bastard
In-Reply-To: <87sn42n44r.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <87r8jnuz34.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <m2znyag85b.fsf@cyberstein.org> <87sn42n44r.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <20020605104743.GO6082@perkypants.org>

<quote who="Last Judgement Samuel">

> Does that really work? Can you really use Debian package manager stuff
> on the Mackertosh?

cf. http://fink.sf.net/

You putrid Austrian swine.

- Jeff

-- 
   "2.4.1ac17 is full of innovations and should be used with caution." -    
                             Linux Weekly News                              


From carton at Ivy.NET  Tue Jun  4 18:57:31 2002
From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <m24rgihmtc.fsf@cyberstein.org>
 (Zachary Copley's message of "04 Jun 2002 12:21:35 -0700")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
 <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
 <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6uit4ztmq6.fsf@zork.zork.net>
 <m24rgihmtc.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <oqbsaqwkqb.fsf@balthasar.nat>

>>>>> "zc" == Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com> writes:

    zc> You dumb ass.  You don't know what the F you're talking about.
    zc> Darwin is a fucking monolithic kernel.

Bend over a little further, you sheeplike anklegrabbing zealot.  If
you'd ``done your homework'' by reading the comments section a little
more carefully, you'd realize that Darwin and L4Linux are both
microkernels.  It's true that neither makes much use of protected
memory, because they both represent the microkernel camp's failing
last-gasp efforts to avoid the performance problems by perverting
their original design.  

``Oh, we don't care about memory protection and debugging any more.
In fact we never cared about that.  Oceania was always at war with,
uh, I mean what we really care about is, uhhh, high-speed message
passing between, uh, i mean, pluggable modular without rebooting oh
damn, i mean clean object-oriented, uh, fuck me.  Well look, it's only
a 10% performance penalty, so long as you don't try to use a real CPU
like an Alpha good god don't try that!, and we get to keep our jobs,
so, uh, everybody wins.  Right?  Folks?''

But, if you call Darwin a monolithic kernel, then you need to shut the
fuck up about the ``second-generation'' microkernels like L4Linux,
because according to you those are monolithic, too.

Until you can get these basic facts right, no one will take you
seriously.  Don't embarrass yourself any further.  Go back to
refreshing your Versiontracker page and sucking on your cute wittle
mowse.  And don't waste any more of our time.  This is Crackmonkey,
and you're clearly not up to the challenge of posting.

-- 
Having a slow TCP stack is sort of like being short or having a small
penis.  In a perfect world one should eventually get over it, but in
reality, not gonna happen.
		-- Leslie E. Burke


From carton at Ivy.NET  Tue Jun  4 19:28:45 2002
From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:	[!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe	notification]
In-Reply-To: <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck>
 (Joakim Ziegler's message of "04 Jun 2002 15:20:23 -0500")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
 <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
 <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
 <m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck>
Message-ID: <oq8z5uwjaa.fsf@balthasar.nat>

>>>>> "jz" == Joakim Ziegler <joakim@avmaria.com> writes:

    jz> MacOS X has a cool graphics system, based on PDF1.4

That's nice, but I refuse to use any display manager that puts font
and character primitives in a privileged server.  XFree86 4.2.0 moves
fonts and characters out of the X server and into the userland
library, which is important because this way when the robot masters
forbid all use of written language on pain of death, all the existing
computer systems can be updated without rebooting.  Inferior designs
will require a reboot to upgrade to software that meets the robots'
demands, and for some of our customers that kind of downtime just
isn't acceptable.

You should really do some research at

  http://ads.xfree86.org/whitepaper/robot-masters/

as it is a fascinating introduction to the entire field of graphical
modeling and user interface design.

BTW, you are incorrect about Mac OS X using pixels for positioning.
Rather, it uses pxls, which are completely different from pixels.  A
pixel is a dot on the screen and a bit on several planes in the
framebuffer, while a pxl is in completely different units.  The pxl is
a measure of distance, equal to the length from the left edge of one
pixel to the left edge of the next rightmost adjoining pixel (so long
as pixels are square---otherwise, the absolute length of a pxl varies,
but this isn't important to any real-world applications).  Most
commands take an integer value of pxls.  The pxl is what gives Mac OS
X its incredible power to scale icons in the Dock.  Inferior designs
like X which are permanently tied to the pixel are incapable of
scaling.  This is all covered in the research article at:

  http://developer.apple.com/darwin/cocoa/why-pxl.htm

-- 
I am an American Airline pilot.


From henrik at enberg.org  Wed Jun  5 04:50:44 2002
From: henrik at enberg.org (Henrik Enberg)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: Mackertosh Toy Computer Bastard
In-Reply-To: <20020605104743.GO6082@perkypants.org> (Jeff Waugh's message of
 "Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:47:43 +1000")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<87r8jnuz34.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
	<m2znyag85b.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<87sn42n44r.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
	<20020605104743.GO6082@perkypants.org>
Message-ID: <87y9dukkq3.fsf@enberg.org>

Jeff Waugh <jdub@perkypants.org> writes:

> <quote who="Last Judgement Samuel">
>
>> Does that really work? Can you really use Debian package manager stuff
>> on the Mackertosh?
>
> cf. http://fink.sf.net/

Wasn't those the guys that thought that free software meant, "free for
us to make proprietary"?

-- 
Yo mama's so fat, she freebases ham.


From smcmahon at eiv.com  Wed Jun  5 06:33:27 2002
From: smcmahon at eiv.com (Shawn McMahon)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Mackertosh Toy Computer Bastard
In-Reply-To: <87sn42n44r.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <87r8jnuz34.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <m2znyag85b.fsf@cyberstein.org> <87sn42n44r.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <20020605133327.GB31147@eiv.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

begin  Last Judgement Samuel quotation:
> 
> If we keep this up, soon all of Europe will be in flames.

It's a new century; they're about due.


- -- 
Shawn McMahon                    | McMahon's Laws of Linux support:
http://www.eiv.com               | 1) There's more than one way to do it
AIM: spmcmahonfedex, smcmahoneiv | 2) Somebody thinks your way is wrong
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iEYEARECAAYFAjz+EycACgkQEcl9bQ0RMt3sOgCfROqyPI86SLMoSu8DvFDovY9C
usYAoLmwWSTDNgcFqlyNHkg5xBXus7fB
=ZCzl
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Wed Jun  5 14:36:27 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020604163859.B22644@zgp.org>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org> <1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck> <20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org> <87sn42hcpd.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20020604163859.B22644@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <20020605213627.GF24561@zork.net>

begin  Don Marti Lives Three Hours from Nowhere  quotation:
> [Don King] walked through the Star Trek Casino with his entourage
> while I was walking through going the other way with my entourage.

	Ha ha Don Marti has a posse.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Wed Jun  5 14:43:25 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: Subject Line Noise (Re: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification])
In-Reply-To: <87elfmn3nz.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604143231.GU24561@zork.net> <m28z5uhmy6.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604210721.GB24561@zork.net> <87elfmn3nz.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <20020605214325.GG24561@zork.net>

begin  Last Judgement Samuel  quotation:
> Hey, so, where does the "you're coming on strong" quote come from?

	<big>Rick Moen</big> kept accusing Zach of trying to get him
to do all the footwork and research in one of those big horrible
Usenet-style arguments on the old pigdog-l.  He said "Sorry buddy,
you're not getting that kind of work for free." in umpteen different
ways (the current '/notforfree { ... } def' section has something like
27 different iterations, and I think there's a section Don wrote that
generates better ones on the fly).

	So Zach kept accusing Rick of trying to beg a job off him.
"Of course I'm not going to hire you!  Why would I when you come on so
strong?"

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Wed Jun  5 14:44:36 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: Subject Line Noise (Re: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification])
In-Reply-To: <871ybmn2mc.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604143231.GU24561@zork.net> <m28z5uhmy6.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604210721.GB24561@zork.net> <87elfmn3nz.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <871ybmn2mc.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <20020605214436.GH24561@zork.net>

begin  Last Judgement Samuel  quotation:
> Also, I think you mean "beverotological."
> 
>       http://pigdog.org/beverotology.html

	Goddammit, when you've had seven shots of whiskey at two miles
up, you're damned liable to spell it beaverotolugee!  I spit on your
orthographical fascism!  

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From pedro at tastytronic.net  Wed Jun  5 09:38:37 2002
From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [UFO Chicago] redvinegar at the Lyon's Den, June 12th!
Message-ID: <20020605113836.A2522@tastytronic.net>

Hi everyone,

Here's the official scoop:

redvinegar -- everybody's favorite band that nobody knows -- is
playing a FREE show at the Lyon's Den (1934 W. Irving Park) with
Smitty's band "Smittyvision," Wednesday, June 12th. Unfortunately, the
show is 21 and over.

Smitty's band comes on at 9:00, and we start around 10:45. This show
is important because it can get us on the regular music schedule at
the Lyon's Den, which means more shows! (It might even mean paid
shows, but that's less important.) Come for the whole show if you can. 

The Lyon's Den is a cool place with good food and a great soundsystem.
It's located just East of the intersection of Irving Park, Lincoln,
and Damen. It's also just west of the Irving Park Brown Line stop.

This information (and more) is available at http://redvinegar.net/

So please spread the word -- hope to see you there!

Yours,

Peter and the rest of redvinegar

-- 
Peter A. Peterson II, technician and musician.
 ---=[ http://tastytronic.net/~pedro/ ]=---

_______________________________________________
UFO Chicago -- Users of Free Operating Systems
Free Software Rules -- Proprietary Drools!
http://ufo.chicago.il.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ufo


From mikael at pawlo.com  Wed Jun  5 15:07:18 2002
From: mikael at pawlo.com (Mikael Pawlo)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Mackertosh Toy Computer Bastard
In-Reply-To: 
 <87sn42n44r.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <m2znyag85b.fsf@cyberstein.org> (Zachary Copley's message of
 "04 Jun 2002 12:23:44 -0700") <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
 <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
 <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
 <87r8jnuz34.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
 <m2znyag85b.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <v03007800b9243bdbc5b3@[10.0.1.2]>

At 17.08 -0400 02-06-04, Last Judgement Samuel wrote:
>    ZC> I can boot X-Windows, rootless, and run GNUStep and ugly KDE
>    ZC> stuff right along side my nice Cocoa apps, and even cut and
>    ZC> paste between them.  I also have me all them apt-get/apt-cache
>    ZC> and dselect thangs!!!!  So I obviously WIN.
>Does that really work? Can you really use Debian package manager stuff
>on the Mackertosh?

I have no idea, but Mozilla 1.0 works fine under OS X at my place. I still
haven't configured Mutt properly, but I will.

Regards

Mikael

_________________________________________________________________________

  ICQ:35638414                              mailto:mikael@pawlo.com
  +46-704-215825                              http://www.pawlo.com/




From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Wed Jun  5 17:12:37 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <oqbsaqwkqb.fsf@balthasar.nat>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6uit4ztmq6.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m24rgihmtc.fsf@cyberstein.org> <oqbsaqwkqb.fsf@balthasar.nat>
Message-ID: <m2it4xz2mi.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "MN" == Miles Nordin <carton@Ivy.NET> writes:

    zc> You dumb ass.  You don't know what the F you're talking about.
    zc> Darwin is a fucking monolithic kernel.

    MN> Bend over a little further, you sheeplike anklegrabbing
    MN> zealot.  If you'd ``done your homework'' by reading the
    MN> comments section a little more carefully, you'd realize that
    MN> Darwin and L4Linux are both microkernels. 

Stick it in your pussy, buttlicker.  I never even mentioned L4Linux.
If I call Darwin a microkernel, some linucks weenie will say "dur dur
dur, that ain't no real microkernel," and if I say it's monolithic,
then some dunderfuck like you comes along and claims it is a true
microkernel.  You guys just like to be contrarian because you know
that Tux is the *worst* mascot that ever existed in computer history!
Goddamn autistic penguin...

Darwin is a good compromise between a microkernel and a monolithic
kernel.  It's structured like a microkernel, but most everything is
compiled together in one big lump.  So you can't call it a true
Microkernel (I propose we call it "microlithic").  You're the one who
needs to get your facts straight before you go around acting like
Mr. Bull Geek Pedant.

    MN> But, if you call Darwin a monolithic kernel, then you need to
    MN> shut the fuck up about the ``second-generation'' microkernels
    MN> like L4Linux, because according to you those are monolithic,
    MN> too.

What in the helllll are you talking about??!

    MN> And don't waste any more of our time.  This is Crackmonkey,
    MN> and you're clearly not up to the challenge of posting.

Exactly how much crack do I have to smoke??!

Jake

-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'


From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Wed Jun  5 17:45:25 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: Subject Line Noise (Re: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification])
In-Reply-To: <20020605214325.GG24561@zork.net>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604143231.GU24561@zork.net>
	<m28z5uhmy6.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604210721.GB24561@zork.net>
	<87elfmn3nz.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
	<20020605214325.GG24561@zork.net>
Message-ID: <m27kldck0q.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "MMaPRoSF" == Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco <monkeymaster@crackmonkey.org> writes:

    MMaPRoSF> So Zach kept accusing Rick of trying to beg a job off
    MMaPRoSF> him.  "Of course I'm not going to hire you!  Why would I
    MMaPRoSF> when you come on so strong?"

It was actually "Why are you coming on so heavy?  I would never hire
you if you come on so heavy."  And it's from the courtroom scene in
this movie:

   http://www.gonzo.org/books/other/wtbr/

Jake

-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'



From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Wed Jun  5 17:47:58 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Mackertosh Toy Computer Bastard
In-Reply-To: <87sn42n44r.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<87r8jnuz34.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
	<m2znyag85b.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<87sn42n44r.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <m23cw1cjwh.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "LJS" == Last Judgement Samuel <junasts@subdimension.com>
>>>>> writes:

    LJS> If we keep this up, soon all of Europe will be in flames.

Yay!

    LJS> Does that really work? Can you really use Debian package
    LJS> manager stuff on the Mackertosh?

Yeah!  dpkg and everything!

http://fink.sourceforge.net/index.php

Jake

-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'



From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Wed Jun  5 17:57:04 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck>
Message-ID: <m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "JZ" == Joakim Ziegler <joakim@avmaria.com> writes:

    >> Sort of.  It's not pixel positioning.  OS X doesn't have an old
    >> fashioned drawing system like your ancient, obsolete X-Windows.

    JZ> The MacOS X HIGs say stuff like "new windows are opened 63
    JZ> pixels below the menu bar", "If stacking [buttons] vertically,
    JZ> leave a minimum of 12 pixels inbetween", etc. This, combined
    JZ> with the fact that all Mac OS X buttons and other elements are
    JZ> essentially bitmap graphics, makes it pretty primitive seeming
    JZ> to me. Yeah, MacOS X has a cool graphics system, based on
    JZ> PDF1.4 with all its patented, non-free niftiness, but it's not
    JZ> really used all that much in the UI itself.

Where do you come up with this shit?  You obviously have zero idea of
what you're talking about.  Quartz uses resolution-independent
coordinates.  It's basically a raster image processor, and every
fucking thing in the WHOLE UI uses it extensively.  Pretty much
exclusively.  And what the fuck would you use instead of bitmaps to
make a button look like a button??  Displaying bitmaps does not imply
a brain-dead drawing system like X-Windows or Win32.

    JZ> Also, you seem to think that it's preferable that you don't
    JZ> have to recompile and test your application, because you can
    JZ> just make stuff completely inflexible, and thus it'll be the
    JZ> same everywhere.

It's like someone pulled a big dump-truck up next to you and dumped
ignorance all over your head.  Here's the thing about Cocoa: you don't
have to recompile to fucking TEST your GUI, because you're working
with live objects while you design it.

    JZ> Yeah, I'll go and fix the kernel so that Steve Jobs can make a
    JZ> proprietary version of it and make even more money and buy
    JZ> even more fucking turtlenecks. Besides, as I said, it's not
    JZ> the kernel that falls over, it's the non-free stuff Apple
    JZ> built on top of it, like the finder.

You are a stinking goat!  I have never had the OS X finder crash.

    JZ> NeXT was stable. The notion that MacOS X is NeXT should be
    JZ> dispensed with, there are extremely significant differences.

Oh yeah, let's hear them?  This should be good.

Jake

-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'



From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Wed Jun  5 17:58:51 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: Subject Line Noise (Re: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification])
In-Reply-To: <m27kldck0q.fsf@cyberstein.org>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604143231.GU24561@zork.net> <m28z5uhmy6.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604210721.GB24561@zork.net> <87elfmn3nz.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20020605214325.GG24561@zork.net> <m27kldck0q.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <20020606005851.GM24561@zork.net>

begin  Zachary Copley  quotation:
>    http://www.gonzo.org/books/other/wtbr/

	Ha ha Bill Murray

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Wed Jun  5 18:01:59 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <1023232074.1579.58.camel@deck>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org> <1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck>
	<20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org> <1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck>
	<20020604163208.A22644@zgp.org> <1023232074.1579.58.camel@deck>
Message-ID: <m2zny9fce0.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "JZ" == Joakim Ziegler <joakim@avmaria.com> writes:

    >> We'll buy you your beverage of choice and show you around
    >> California, too.  Zach?  What's your opinion on the chair
    >> thing?

You can hit me, but no fair hitting my precious mackertosh.

    JZ> I could use a keyboard, too, if a folding chair was too
    JZ> much. Say, an IBM model M.

Be careful, I'm well armed in this regard.  I even have small ones
that I can fling at you like throwing stars, and extra-long
double-ended Model M cables (for the ones that come with built in
trackballs) that I can fling around like big cat o' nine tails.

Ultimate Power, baby.

    JZ> I have a feeling that might be unfair, though. Although I
    JZ> admit I know little of high-level languages suitable for
    JZ> writing GUI applications on MacOS X.

You got your Objective-C and you got your Javur, and those are really
the only two effective languages for writing real cocoa apps on the
Mackertosh right now.  Well, actually it's possible to use
Objective-C++ (which is real fucking crazy).  I will use Objective-C.

Hey, you could use the gnome objective C bindings!  That would be
cool.

I suspect it would be best to use C++, but maybe not.  Maybe you
should use plain old C, which is what the gnome libraries are written
in. (Har!!!)

Jake 
	
-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'


-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'



From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Wed Jun  5 18:04:52 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org> <1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck>
	<20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org> <1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck>
Message-ID: <m2vg8xfc97.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "JZ" == Joakim Ziegler <joakim@avmaria.com> writes:

    >> Are you both available some time August 13-15 in San Francisco?
    >> If so, please state your hours of availability.

    JZ> I would like to, but I doubt I'll go to the US just to
    JZ> participate in this. I guess it would depend on whether or not
    JZ> it's allowed to strike your opponent with a folding chair.

You fucking chicken shit linuxtard!!!!!

    JZ> Also, would one be allowed to use a language of one's choice?
    JZ> Such as, say, Python?

Why don't you just use JavurScript! HA HA HA.

Jake

-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'



From joakim at avmaria.com  Wed Jun  5 17:45:51 2002
From: joakim at avmaria.com (Joakim Ziegler)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
	[!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
	notification]
In-Reply-To: <m2vg8xfc97.fsf@cyberstein.org>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org> <1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck>
	<20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org> <1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck> 
	<m2vg8xfc97.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <1023324354.1578.67.camel@deck>

On Wed, 2002-06-05 at 20:04, Zachary Copley wrote:
> Joakim Ziegler <joakim@avmaria.com> writes:
 
>> I would like to, but I doubt I'll go to the US just to
>> participate in this. I guess it would depend on whether or not
>> it's allowed to strike your opponent with a folding chair.
 
> You fucking chicken shit linuxtard!!!!!

Yeah, yeah. You Merkins think everyone and everything is in the US, or
can go there easily. Besides, I'm considering joining Alan Cox'
no-US-travel campaign, although I doubt anyone would notice.

 
>> Also, would one be allowed to use a language of one's choice?
>> Such as, say, Python?
 
> Why don't you just use JavurScript! HA HA HA.

Yeah, because noone ever codes anything useful in Python or anything.
Nothing like Sketch, or Mailman, or Grail. Or any of the several pieces
of GNOME that are written in Python with PyGTK/PyGNOME.

For quick development of something where performance is not of utmost
importance (many GUI applications, really, especially since we're
talking business logic performance, not GUI performance), there's very
little that beats it.
 
-- 
  The Private Joakim Ziegler - Not Speaking For Anyone But Myself
ziegler@e.fix.no - http://www.avmaria.com - Radagast@Undernet&GIMPnet
http://www.avmaria.com/ - http://www.fix.no/ - http://www.gnome.org/
		



From joakim at avmaria.com  Wed Jun  5 18:15:15 2002
From: joakim at avmaria.com (Joakim Ziegler)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
	[!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
	notification]
In-Reply-To: <m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck> 
	<m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck>

On Wed, 2002-06-05 at 19:57, Zachary Copley wrote:
 
>Joakim Ziegler <joakim@avmaria.com> writes:

>> The MacOS X HIGs say stuff like "new windows are opened 63
>> pixels below the menu bar", "If stacking [buttons] vertically,
>> leave a minimum of 12 pixels inbetween", etc. This, combined
>> with the fact that all Mac OS X buttons and other elements are
>> essentially bitmap graphics, makes it pretty primitive seeming
>> to me. Yeah, MacOS X has a cool graphics system, based on
>> PDF1.4 with all its patented, non-free niftiness, but it's not
>> really used all that much in the UI itself.
 
> Where do you come up with this shit?  You obviously have zero idea of
> what you're talking about.  Quartz uses resolution-independent
> coordinates.  It's basically a raster image processor, and every
> fucking thing in the WHOLE UI uses it extensively.  Pretty much
> exclusively.  And what the fuck would you use instead of bitmaps to
> make a button look like a button??  Displaying bitmaps does not imply
> a brain-dead drawing system like X-Windows or Win32.

Resolution-independent coordinates expressed in...pixels?

Most OSes with less a candy-like, bulgy,
still-wet-from-Steve-Job's-lecherous-saliva-and-vigorous-erotic-licking
look use drawing primitives to draw buttons.

 
>> Also, you seem to think that it's preferable that you don't
>> have to recompile and test your application, because you can
>> just make stuff completely inflexible, and thus it'll be the
>> same everywhere.
 
> It's like someone pulled a big dump-truck up next to you and dumped
> ignorance all over your head.  Here's the thing about Cocoa: you don't
> have to recompile to fucking TEST your GUI, because you're working
> with live objects while you design it.

You were the one stating that if you didn't use absolute positioning for
your widgets, you'd have to recompile all the time to check if your UI
looks ok. I was saying that that was preferable to your users
experiencing the breakage instead.

What you're talking about is the same as most GUI builders on most
platforms. It's certainly true for Glade, IBM's VisualAge for Java and
AFAIK C++, that KDE GUI builder tool whose name escapes me at the
moment, and so on.

Recompiling to test the GUI in the actual application is not necessary
on GNOME either, given libglade, which just loads the edited GUI from a
file runtime, with no recompiling in sight.


 
>> Yeah, I'll go and fix the kernel so that Steve Jobs can make a
>> proprietary version of it and make even more money and buy
>> even more fucking turtlenecks. Besides, as I said, it's not
>> the kernel that falls over, it's the non-free stuff Apple
>> built on top of it, like the finder.

> You are a stinking goat!  I have never had the OS X finder crash.

Good for you. I've seen it several times in a two-week period.

 
>> NeXT was stable. The notion that MacOS X is NeXT should be
>> dispensed with, there are extremely significant differences.
 
> Oh yeah, let's hear them?  This should be good.

The Finder. The drawing subsystem. Pretty much everything in userland is
significantly changed or updated, if not rewritten, since the days of
NeXTStep.

-- 
  The Private Joakim Ziegler - Not Speaking For Anyone But Myself
ziegler@e.fix.no - http://www.avmaria.com - Radagast@Undernet&GIMPnet
http://www.avmaria.com/ - http://www.fix.no/ - http://www.gnome.org/
		



From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Wed Jun  5 19:56:50 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck>
	<m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck>
Message-ID: <m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "JZ" == Joakim Ziegler <joakim@avmaria.com> writes:

    JZ> What you're talking about is the same as most GUI builders on
    JZ> most platforms. It's certainly true for Glade, IBM's VisualAge
    JZ> for Java and AFAIK C++, that KDE GUI builder tool whose name
    JZ> escapes me at the moment, and so on.

Bullshit!!!!  Those are lame code generators!  After you are done
spewing a bunch of ugly code into your source, you're lucky if you can
ever modify your interface using the tool ever again.  Usually, it's a
one-off proposition.  With Javur, those tools are such an utter waste
of time that only goobers use them, on account of the Swing code they
make is so disgusting.

    JZ> Recompiling to test the GUI in the actual application is not
    JZ> necessary on GNOME either, given libglade, which just loads
    JZ> the edited GUI from a file runtime, with no recompiling in
    JZ> sight.

Libglade is more in the vein of how Cocoa works.  But come on, that a
funky add-on library to simulate a dynamic runtime.  I bet it's slow
as fuck too, since the objects are unmarshalled from XML.  Does that
Glade GUI builder tool even output libglade files?  Even if it does, I
seriously doubt that it's anywhere as integrated as Project Builder
and Interface Builder, and the way that you connect libglade widgets
to your code is not elegant at all.  It's still old-fashioned C.

In short, I think libglade sucks, and I truly doubt that libglade is
standard way to write gnome apps.  I think it's more like a novelty.

Also, you are st00pid.

Jake

-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'



From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu  Wed Jun  5 20:45:49 2002
From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [UFO Chicago] redvinegar at the Lyon's Den, June 12th! 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 05 Jun 2002 11:38:37 CDT."
             <20020605113836.A2522@tastytronic.net> 
References: <20020605113836.A2522@tastytronic.net>
Message-ID: <200206060345.g563jnGD008353@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>

On Wed, 05 Jun 2002 11:38:37 CDT, "Peter A. Peterson II" said:

> redvinegar -- everybody's favorite band that nobody knows -- is
> playing a FREE show at the Lyon's Den (1934 W. Irving Park) with

Maybe more people would know if you actually, like, said what CITY it's
in?

(I don't know of a city called '[UFO Chicago]' - is that like a refugee
from Blish's "Cities in Flight"?  Or is that the name of another list that
decided to spew itself onto our list?)

You'd think that bands would learn that if they consider "she's sleeping
with the lead guitarist" to be proper credentials for a PR person, that
they make sure that the lead guitarist is sleeping with somebody who has
at least a clue about PR.


From joakim at avmaria.com  Wed Jun  5 20:28:40 2002
From: joakim at avmaria.com (Joakim Ziegler)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
	[!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
	notification]
In-Reply-To: <m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck>
	<m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck> 
	<m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <1023334124.1608.11.camel@deck>

On Wed, 2002-06-05 at 21:56, Zachary Copley wrote:
> Joakim Ziegler <joakim@avmaria.com> writes:
 
>> What you're talking about is the same as most GUI builders on
>> most platforms. It's certainly true for Glade, IBM's VisualAge
>> for Java and AFAIK C++, that KDE GUI builder tool whose name
>> escapes me at the moment, and so on.
 
> Bullshit!!!!  Those are lame code generators!  After you are done
> spewing a bunch of ugly code into your source, you're lucky if you can
> ever modify your interface using the tool ever again.  Usually, it's a
> one-off proposition.  With Javur, those tools are such an utter waste
> of time that only goobers use them, on account of the Swing code they
> make is so disgusting.

The KDE tool does the same thing as Glade/Libglade, actually, and I've
been told it actually works better, although I haven't tried it. The KDE
IDE tool that has that GUI builder integrated kicks the GNOME tools' ass
in most areas, and the GNOME tools are pretty decent.

For the Java tools, yeah, they generate source code. You can edit it in
the same tools again if you don't touch that part of the source by hand,
though, generally speaking. But you were saying that the unique thing
about Cocoa was that the GUI builder manipulates actual, live widgets,
and that's not unique at all; all of these tools do.
 

>> Recompiling to test the GUI in the actual application is not
>> necessary on GNOME either, given libglade, which just loads
>> the edited GUI from a file runtime, with no recompiling in
>> sight.

> Libglade is more in the vein of how Cocoa works.  But come on, that a
> funky add-on library to simulate a dynamic runtime.  I bet it's slow
> as fuck too, since the objects are unmarshalled from XML.

Libglade doesn't add anything noticable to the program startup time. It
uses the libxml SAX API, and as such approaches as fast as things get
with a human-readable format. What format does Cocoa use to store its
interface definition files?


>  Does that
> Glade GUI builder tool even output libglade files?  Even if it does, I
> seriously doubt that it's anywhere as integrated as Project Builder
> and Interface Builder, and the way that you connect libglade widgets
> to your code is not elegant at all.  It's still old-fashioned C.

Or Python. The guy who makes libglade is the guy who makes
PyGTK/PyGNOME, so it's very well integrated. It's also included in most
other GNOME language bindings, as far as I know. You're right about
Glade itself, though, it's not the perfect UI building tool. But it's
being improved, which is a result of it being free and whatnot, unlike
your proprietary and thus evil system.

 
> In short, I think libglade sucks, and I truly doubt that libglade is
> standard way to write gnome apps.  I think it's more like a novelty.

libglade is indeed the way the majority of GNOME apps are being written
these days. Some projects don't use it, but that's mostly for historical
reasons. Also, glade/libglade is being expanded to be usable for widgets
outside of the normal GNOME libraries, like GAL, arbitrary Bonobo
controls, etc.


> Also, you are st00pid.

Says the guy who needed several tries to figure out list reply and get
the fuck out of my inbox.

-- 
  The Private Joakim Ziegler - Not Speaking For Anyone But Myself
ziegler@e.fix.no - http://www.avmaria.com - Radagast@Undernet&GIMPnet
http://www.avmaria.com/ - http://www.fix.no/ - http://www.gnome.org/
		



From Edward.Lang at anu.edu.au  Wed Jun  5 21:42:02 2002
From: Edward.Lang at anu.edu.au (Edward C. Lang)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
	[!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
	notification]
In-Reply-To: <1023334124.1608.11.camel@deck>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck>
	<m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck> 
	<m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org>  <1023334124.1608.11.camel@deck>
Message-ID: <1023338542.775.1.camel@protein>

On Thu, 2002-06-06 at 13:28, Joakim Ziegler wrote:
> On Wed, 2002-06-05 at 21:56, Zachary Copley wrote:
> > Joakim Ziegler <joakim@avmaria.com> writes:

[tit for tat argument snipped]

Huzzah! It may well be a pretty pointless debate, but it's also
entertaining reading. Keep up the good work maties!

-- 

http://www.tsumakin.net/



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Wed Jun  5 22:15:05 2002
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: Subject Line Noise (Re: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification])
In-Reply-To: <20020605214325.GG24561@zork.net>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604143231.GU24561@zork.net> <m28z5uhmy6.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604210721.GB24561@zork.net> <87elfmn3nz.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20020605214325.GG24561@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020606051505.GY20206@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco (monkeymaster@crackmonkey.org):

> 	So Zach kept accusing Rick of trying to beg a job off him.
> "Of course I'm not going to hire you!  Why would I when you come on so
> strong?"

And the rat bastard never hired me, either.

-- 
Cheers,   The difference between common sense and paranoia is that common sense
Rick Moen     is thinking everyone is out to get you.  That's normal; they are.
rick@linuxmafia.com      Paranoia is thinking they're conspiring.  -- J. Kegler


From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Wed Jun  5 22:17:05 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <1023334124.1608.11.camel@deck>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck>
	<m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck>
	<m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023334124.1608.11.camel@deck>
Message-ID: <m2d6v5f0ku.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "JZ" == Joakim Ziegler <joakim@avmaria.com> writes:

    JZ> For the Java tools, yeah, they generate source code. You can
    JZ> edit it in the same tools again if you don't touch that part
    JZ> of the source by hand, though, generally speaking. But you
    JZ> were saying that the unique thing about Cocoa was that the GUI
    JZ> builder manipulates actual, live widgets, and that's not
    JZ> unique at all; all of these tools do.

But you were saying that most GUI builder tools work that way, and
that is the biggest goddamn lie that has ever been foisted upon
mankind.  I think Steve Joabs himself would take a crap on your
linucks computer for that, and it *proves* once and for all that your
are a NOGOODNIK.  You probably live in Mexico because of some terrible
crimes you committed here.  I should toss my drink in your face, but
that would be a waste of cheap booze.

By the way, that picture of you on your highfalutin web site doesn't
make you look big and tough.  Your pants are so ill-fitting and
ungainly that it looks like you have a load in them.

    JZ> Libglade doesn't add anything noticable to the program startup
    JZ> time. It uses the libxml SAX API, and as such approaches as
    JZ> fast as things get with a human-readable format. What format
    JZ> does Cocoa use to store its interface definition files?

It uses a special secret binary makertosher formula that's owned my
Mr. Steven P. Joabs!  And it's much faster than loading a 10-page XML
document.

    JZ> Or Python. The guy who makes libglade is the guy who makes
    JZ> PyGTK/PyGNOME, so it's very well integrated. It's also
    JZ> included in most other GNOME language bindings, as far as I
    JZ> know. 

I don't believe you.  But anyway, I never used any stupid KDE or Gnome
development tools, so unlike you I will refrain from talking shit
about things that I don't know anything about.  However, my rat sense
tells me that I would stomp you to pieces in the cage using my
macintoy.  And then I would stuff my iPod in your mouth, and and I
would roll you out the door like like a dead pig.

    JZ> perfect UI building tool. But it's being improved, which is a
    JZ> result of it being free and whatnot, unlike your proprietary
    JZ> and thus evil system.

What's wrong with EVIL?!!?!?!
 
    >> In short, I think libglade sucks, and I truly doubt that
    >> libglade is standard way to write gnome apps.  I think it's
    >> more like a novelty.

    JZ> libglade is indeed the way the majority of GNOME apps are
    JZ> being written these days. Some projects don't use it, but
    JZ> that's mostly for historical reasons. Also, glade/libglade is
    JZ> being expanded to be usable for widgets outside of the normal
    JZ> GNOME libraries, like GAL, arbitrary Bonobo controls, etc.

Gross!!!

Jake

-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'



From joakim at avmaria.com  Wed Jun  5 23:13:23 2002
From: joakim at avmaria.com (Joakim Ziegler)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
	[!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
	notification]
In-Reply-To: <m2d6v5f0ku.fsf@cyberstein.org>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck>
	<m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck>
	<m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023334124.1608.11.camel@deck> 
	<m2d6v5f0ku.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <1023344006.1613.23.camel@deck>

On Thu, 2002-06-06 at 00:17, Zachary Copley wrote:
> Joakim Ziegler <joakim@avmaria.com> writes:
 
>> For the Java tools, yeah, they generate source code. You can
>> edit it in the same tools again if you don't touch that part
>> of the source by hand, though, generally speaking. But you
>> were saying that the unique thing about Cocoa was that the GUI
>> builder manipulates actual, live widgets, and that's not
>> unique at all; all of these tools do.
 
> But you were saying that most GUI builder tools work that way, and
> that is the biggest goddamn lie that has ever been foisted upon
> mankind.  I think Steve Joabs himself would take a crap on your
> linucks computer for that, and it *proves* once and for all that your
> are a NOGOODNIK.

Yes, most GUI builder tools manipulate actual, live widgets. It's pretty
well understood that this is the best way of doing things. If you
believe that this is not the case, please produce a list of GUI builders
that do not (actual, still used software, please, no early-90s crap that
noone uses anymore).


>  You probably live in Mexico because of some terrible
> crimes you committed here.  I should toss my drink in your face, but
> that would be a waste of cheap booze.

Ahem. I never lived "there". I'm from a country with a functional
healthcare and social security system, where trains are a viable means
of transportation, we never interned the Japanese or stole the land from
the Native Americans, and with one of the strongest econonomies in the
world. Behold, Norway. Also, judging from your last name, my ancestors
raped and pillaged your ancestors.

Besides, you couldn't *get* a drink where you live at this time, because
of the draconian regulations on opening hours. So fuck off.


> By the way, that picture of you on your highfalutin web site doesn't
> make you look big and tough.  Your pants are so ill-fitting and
> ungainly that it looks like you have a load in them.

Actually, photos taken from a high perspective generally make the things
in the photo look smaller. And that's not a load, that's my cock that's
curled up in a figure-eight around my thighs. Twice.


>> Libglade doesn't add anything noticable to the program startup
>> time. It uses the libxml SAX API, and as such approaches as
>> fast as things get with a human-readable format. What format
>> does Cocoa use to store its interface definition files?

> It uses a special secret binary makertosher formula that's owned my
> Mr. Steven P. Joabs!  And it's much faster than loading a 10-page XML
> document.

Proprietary == unethical == u sux.


>> Or Python. The guy who makes libglade is the guy who makes
>> PyGTK/PyGNOME, so it's very well integrated. It's also
>> included in most other GNOME language bindings, as far as I
>> know. 
 
> I don't believe you.  But anyway, I never used any stupid KDE or Gnome
> development tools, so unlike you I will refrain from talking shit
> about things that I don't know anything about.  However, my rat sense
> tells me that I would stomp you to pieces in the cage using my
> macintoy.  And then I would stuff my iPod in your mouth, and and I
> would roll you out the door like like a dead pig.



 
>> perfect UI building tool. But it's being improved, which is a
>> result of it being free and whatnot, unlike your proprietary
>> and thus evil system.

> What's wrong with EVIL?!!?!?!

This is not the good sort of evil. This is the soul-twisting,
mind-bending sort of evil. Like a Sigfried and Roy show. In fact, like
Windows. Except worse, because MacOS X doesn't run on anything but
proprietary hardware, only sold by a single company, the one that makes
the OS, and several of the key pieces of application software. The only
thing that keeps Apple from being a much worse monopolist than Microsoft
is that most people realize that the hardware is overpriced.

 
>> libglade is indeed the way the majority of GNOME apps are
>> being written these days. Some projects don't use it, but
>> that's mostly for historical reasons. Also, glade/libglade is
>> being expanded to be usable for widgets outside of the normal
>> GNOME libraries, like GAL, arbitrary Bonobo controls, etc.
 
> Gross!!!

Says the guy who enjoys using a GUI modelled after Steve Jobs'
translucent nads.
 
-- 
  The Private Joakim Ziegler - Not Speaking For Anyone But Myself
ziegler@e.fix.no - http://www.avmaria.com - Radagast@Undernet&GIMPnet
http://www.avmaria.com/ - http://www.fix.no/ - http://www.gnome.org/
		



From sneakums at zork.net  Thu Jun  6 00:36:33 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <m2it4xz2mi.fsf@cyberstein.org> (Zachary Copley's message of
 "05 Jun 2002 17:12:37 -0700")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6uit4ztmq6.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m24rgihmtc.fsf@cyberstein.org> <oqbsaqwkqb.fsf@balthasar.nat>
	<m2it4xz2mi.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <6uadq8svsu.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Zachary Copley quotation:

>     MN> But, if you call Darwin a monolithic kernel, then you need to
>     MN> shut the fuck up about the ``second-generation'' microkernels
>     MN> like L4Linux, because according to you those are monolithic,
>     MN> too.
>
> What in the helllll are you talking about??!

L4Linux is a Linux super-server running on L4.  It's kinda useless,
really, good only for wank value.

-- 
"Love and understanding are the ultimate crimes."
	-- Eamon de Valera


From poop at crapmonkey.org  Thu Jun  6 01:09:15 2002
From: poop at crapmonkey.org (poop@crapmonkey.org)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <1023344006.1613.23.camel@deck> (Joakim Ziegler's message of
 "06 Jun 2002 01:13:23 -0500")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck>
	<m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck>
	<m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023334124.1608.11.camel@deck>
	<m2d6v5f0ku.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023344006.1613.23.camel@deck>
Message-ID: <lzadq896c4.fsf@unity.copyleft.no>

* Joakim Ziegler <joakim@avmaria.com>:

> [...] we never interned the Japanese or stole the land from
> the Native Americans,

We did sterilize tatars and sami people, though.  Actually, Norway was
found guilty of doing ethnic cleansing.

> and with one of the strongest econonomies in the world.

Because we have oil, not because we're so fucking clever.

-- 
poopmastah


From poop at crapmonkey.org  Thu Jun  6 01:12:53 2002
From: poop at crapmonkey.org (poop@crapmonkey.org)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <1023334124.1608.11.camel@deck> (Joakim Ziegler's message of
 "05 Jun 2002 22:28:40 -0500")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck>
	<m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck>
	<m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023334124.1608.11.camel@deck>
Message-ID: <lz660w9662.fsf@unity.copyleft.no>

* Joakim Ziegler <joakim@avmaria.com>:

> Or Python.

Or Objective Caml.  (And, IIRC, Ada95 and Common Lisp.  That is, clisp
and CMUCL.)  Probably other languages as well.

-- 
johs


From jim at musenki.com  Thu Jun  6 01:46:29 2002
From: jim at musenki.com (Jim Thompson)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <6uadq8svsu.fsf@zork.zork.net>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org>
	<6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6uit4ztmq6.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m24rgihmtc.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<oqbsaqwkqb.fsf@balthasar.nat>
	<m2it4xz2mi.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6uadq8svsu.fsf@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <15615.8549.801825.817513@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

Sean Neakums writes:
> commence  Zachary Copley quotation:
> 
> >     MN> But, if you call Darwin a monolithic kernel, then you need to
> >     MN> shut the fuck up about the ``second-generation'' microkernels
> >     MN> like L4Linux, because according to you those are monolithic,
> >     MN> too.
> >
> > What in the helllll are you talking about??!
> 
> L4Linux is a Linux super-server running on L4.  It's kinda useless,
> really, good only for wank value.

how is this different that (the monolithic) linux?




From sneakums at zork.net  Thu Jun  6 02:14:59 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <15615.8549.801825.817513@gargle.gargle.HOWL> (Jim Thompson's
 message of "Thu, 6 Jun 2002 03:46:29 -0500")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6uit4ztmq6.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m24rgihmtc.fsf@cyberstein.org> <oqbsaqwkqb.fsf@balthasar.nat>
	<m2it4xz2mi.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6uadq8svsu.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<15615.8549.801825.817513@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <6usn40rcoc.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Jim Thompson quotation:

> Sean Neakums writes:
>> L4Linux is a Linux super-server running on L4.  It's kinda useless,
>> really, good only for wank value.
>
> how is this different that (the monolithic) linux?

Oh, gosh, you are so clever!  You should be writing for Byte or ZDnet!

-- 
"If I could afford a Mac, I'd probably get a horse, instead."
	-- Thom Stark


From jim at musenki.com  Thu Jun  6 02:18:52 2002
From: jim at musenki.com (Jim Thompson)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <6usn40rcoc.fsf@zork.zork.net>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org>
	<6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6uit4ztmq6.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m24rgihmtc.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<oqbsaqwkqb.fsf@balthasar.nat>
	<m2it4xz2mi.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6uadq8svsu.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<15615.8549.801825.817513@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<6usn40rcoc.fsf@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <15615.10492.855941.201505@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

Sean Neakums writes:
> commence  Jim Thompson quotation:
> 
> > Sean Neakums writes:
> >> L4Linux is a Linux super-server running on L4.  It's kinda useless,
> >> really, good only for wank value.
> >
> > how is this different that (the monolithic) linux?
> 
> Oh, gosh, you are so clever!  You should be writing for Byte or ZDnet!

Boardwatch, actually.

Jim



From sneakums at zork.net  Thu Jun  6 02:24:04 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:13 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <15615.10492.855941.201505@gargle.gargle.HOWL> (Jim Thompson's
 message of "Thu, 6 Jun 2002 04:18:52 -0500")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6uit4ztmq6.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m24rgihmtc.fsf@cyberstein.org> <oqbsaqwkqb.fsf@balthasar.nat>
	<m2it4xz2mi.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6uadq8svsu.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<15615.8549.801825.817513@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<6usn40rcoc.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<15615.10492.855941.201505@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <6uofeorc97.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Jim Thompson quotation:

> Sean Neakums writes:
>> commence  Jim Thompson quotation:
>> > Sean Neakums writes:
>> >> L4Linux is a Linux super-server running on L4.  It's kinda
>> >> useless, really, good only for wank value.
>> >
>> > how is this different that (the monolithic) linux?
>> 
>> Oh, gosh, you are so clever!  You should be writing for Byte or ZDnet!
>
> Boardwatch, actually.

No, I don't think you should be writing for Boardwatch.

-- 
"What you see is what you get,
 but it sure ain't what we need."
	-- Eamon de Valera


From jim at musenki.com  Thu Jun  6 04:03:14 2002
From: jim at musenki.com (Jim Thompson)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <6uofeorc97.fsf@zork.zork.net>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org>
	<6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6uit4ztmq6.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m24rgihmtc.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<oqbsaqwkqb.fsf@balthasar.nat>
	<m2it4xz2mi.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6uadq8svsu.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<15615.8549.801825.817513@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<6usn40rcoc.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<15615.10492.855941.201505@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<6uofeorc97.fsf@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <15615.16754.745741.905331@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

Sean Neakums writes:
> commence  Jim Thompson quotation:
> 
> > Sean Neakums writes:
> >> commence  Jim Thompson quotation:
> >> > Sean Neakums writes:
> >> >> L4Linux is a Linux super-server running on L4.  It's kinda
> >> >> useless, really, good only for wank value.
> >> >
> >> > how is this different that (the monolithic) linux?
> >> 
> >> Oh, gosh, you are so clever!  You should be writing for Byte or ZDnet!
> >
> > Boardwatch, actually.
> 
> No, I don't think you should be writing for Boardwatch.


http://www.isp-planet.com/authors/thompson-index.html

Its not me, but how would you know?

Jim



From jdub at perkypants.org  Thu Jun  6 04:19:55 2002
From: jdub at perkypants.org (Jeff Waugh)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck> <m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck> <m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <20020606111955.GU931@perkypants.org>

<quote who="Zachary Copley">

> Libglade is more in the vein of how Cocoa works.  But come on, that a
> funky add-on library to simulate a dynamic runtime.  I bet it's slow
> as fuck too, since the objects are unmarshalled from XML.  Does that
> Glade GUI builder tool even output libglade files? Even if it does, I
> seriously doubt that it's anywhere as integrated as Project Builder
> and Interface Builder, and the way that you connect libglade widgets
> to your code is not elegant at all.  It's still old-fashioned C.

Hahahahaha.

It's like a BIG DUMP-TRUCK pulled up next to you and DUMPED IGNORANCE all
over your pesky little troll head.

  a) "slow as fuck": No.

  b) "objects unmarshalled from XML": Jesus Christ, it's a UI description
  format, not a fucking object store.

  c) "even output libglade files?": Glade has always saved .glade XML files
  to describe interfaces independently to the code it generates. Almost as
  soon as libglade arrived, the code generation functionality of Glade was
  ignored.

  d) "way that you connect liglade widgets": Piss all in terms of LOC,
  sensible API, and even better in Python.

BACK TO YOUR TROLL HOLE, Zachary Pissant!

- Jeff

-- 
   "I look forward to someday putting foo-colored ribbons on my homepage    
   declaring 'port 25 is for spam', and 'just say no to the Spam Message    
                   Transmission Protocol!'" - Raph Levien                   


From jdub at perkypants.org  Thu Jun  6 04:23:13 2002
From: jdub at perkypants.org (Jeff Waugh)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <1023338542.775.1.camel@protein>
References: <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck> <m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck> <m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023334124.1608.11.camel@deck> <1023338542.775.1.camel@protein>
Message-ID: <20020606112313.GV931@perkypants.org>

<quote who="Edward C. Lang">

> Huzzah! It may well be a pretty pointless debate, but it's also
> entertaining reading. Keep up the good work maties!

Shut the fuck up, roadkill.

- Jeff

-- 
   "In the pre-Internet age, I was like an Internet kid, with a 3D search   
             engine, trying to find weird stuff." - John Safran             


From dmarti at zgp.org  Thu Jun  6 08:54:26 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <1023324354.1578.67.camel@deck>; from joakim@avmaria.com on Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 07:45:51PM -0500
References: <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org> <1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck> <20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org> <1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck> <m2vg8xfc97.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023324354.1578.67.camel@deck>
Message-ID: <20020606085426.D23079@zgp.org>

begin Joakim Ziegler quotation of Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 07:45:51PM -0500:

> Yeah, yeah. You Merkins think everyone and everything is in the US, or
> can go there easily. Besides, I'm considering joining Alan Cox'
> no-US-travel campaign, although I doubt anyone would notice.

If we can go to Canada from the USA, you can come to the USA
from Mexico.

Besides, it's San Francisco.  You can have clam chowder in a bowl
made out of bread.  And I will buy you (and Zach) Imperial Rolls
at Tu Lan.  And don't forget the chance at the bottle of Victory
Champagne.

This looks pretty bad for the GNOME side right now -- their champion
app developer wouldn't even cross one border to take on a Mac
OS X developer.  Mac OS X!  I can see if it were Qt, but, damn.
What if the person who would have been converted to GNOME by your
victory would have been the Hundredth Monkey?  And instead Mac OS X
tipped the Hundredth Monkey threshold and everyone started using it
all at once, worldwide, the same day?  Could you live with yourself?

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From joakim at avmaria.com  Thu Jun  6 08:30:42 2002
From: joakim at avmaria.com (Joakim Ziegler)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
	[!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
	notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020606085426.D23079@zgp.org>
References: <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org>
	<6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org>
	<1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck> <20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org>
	<1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck> <m2vg8xfc97.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<1023324354.1578.67.camel@deck>  <20020606085426.D23079@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <1023377443.1607.7.camel@deck>

On Thu, 2002-06-06 at 10:54, Don Marti wrote:
> begin Joakim Ziegler quotation of Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 07:45:51PM -0500:
 
>> Yeah, yeah. You Merkins think everyone and everything is in the US, or
>> can go there easily. Besides, I'm considering joining Alan Cox'
>> no-US-travel campaign, although I doubt anyone would notice.

> If we can go to Canada from the USA, you can come to the USA
> from Mexico.

This simple statement shows that you've never actually tried to enter
the US from Mexico (as a non-US citizen). I was once held up for four
hours in immigration in Austin, because I needed a return ticket not to
my country of residence (Mexico), but to *Norway*. Now, that problem was
eventually solved, although the solution involved paying a 150 dollar
fee and sitting around waiting for the next plane while the smell of
barbecue sauce hung heavily in the air, but sitting in the immigration
waiting room is an interesting experience. The sheer level of harassment
experienced by Mexican citizens (with valid visas, mind you) was
mind-boggling. And some Chinese grandmother with a green card was held
back while they used a translator on the *phone* to talk to her (they
called up the translator, he talked to the immigrations guy, the
immigrations guy passed the phone to the woman, she talked to the
translator, passed the phone back, the translator translated, etc.

 
-- 
  The Private Joakim Ziegler - Not Speaking For Anyone But Myself
ziegler@e.fix.no - http://www.avmaria.com - Radagast@Undernet&GIMPnet
http://www.avmaria.com/ - http://www.fix.no/ - http://www.gnome.org/
		



From pedro at tastytronic.net  Thu Jun  6 09:22:07 2002
From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [UFO Chicago] redvinegar at the Lyon's Den, June 12th!
In-Reply-To: <200206060345.g563jnGD008353@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
References: <20020605113836.A2522@tastytronic.net> <200206060345.g563jnGD008353@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <20020606112207.D26472@tastytronic.net>

Quoting Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu:
> On Wed, 05 Jun 2002 11:38:37 CDT, "Peter A. Peterson II" said:
> > redvinegar -- everybody's favorite band that nobody knows -- is
> > playing a FREE show at the Lyon's Den (1934 W. Irving Park) with
> 
> Maybe more people would know if you actually, like, said what CITY it's
> in?

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa -- whoa.

I seem to have been bouncymcforwarded by someone. I suspect Emad.
Because he's Libyan. And because of the Life on the Missisissppi
incident. And... just because he's the biggest troll this side of the
South Pole.

So don't blame me for not mentioning the city, when I posted the
message to the mailing list for the band and for a local lug. Blame
Emad. And then blame him again. And then maybe poke him with a hot,
personalized steak branding iron that says:

"Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth, upon this
continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the
proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation,
or any nation so conceived, and so dedicated, can long endure. We are
met here on a great battlefield of that war. We have come to dedicate
a portion of it as a final resting place for those who here gave their
lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper
that we should do this.

But in a larger sense we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate --
we can not hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who
struggled, here, have consecrated it far above our poor power to add
or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember, what we say
here, but can never forget what they did here. It is for us, the
living, rather to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they
have, thus far, so nobly carried on. It is rather for us to be here
dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these
honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they
here gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly
resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain; that this nation
shall have a new birth of freedom; and that this government of the
people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the
earth."

It's not that big of a deal!

pedro

-- 
Peter A. Peterson II, technician and musician.
 ---=[ http://tastytronic.net/~pedro/ ]=---


From nick at zork.net  Thu Jun  6 10:39:26 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification]
Message-ID: <20020606173926.GN24561@zork.net>

Keep trying.

----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net -----

andy@strugglers.net has been successfully subscribed to CrackMonkey.



----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Thu Jun  6 10:40:39 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <m2zny9fce0.fsf@cyberstein.org>
References: <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org> <1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck> <20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org> <1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck> <20020604163208.A22644@zgp.org> <1023232074.1579.58.camel@deck> <m2zny9fce0.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <20020606174039.GO24561@zork.net>

begin  Zachary Copley  quotation:
> Well, actually it's possible to use Objective-C++ (which is real
> fucking crazy).  

	All the ANSI C compliance of Objective C, with the powerful
object system of C++!

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From nick at zork.net  Thu Jun  6 10:45:21 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification]
Message-ID: <20020606174521.GQ24561@zork.net>

I bet you're doing this so that Randy Mills can read over your
shoulder!

----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net -----

drobnox@visi.com has been successfully subscribed to CrackMonkey.



----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Thu Jun  6 11:12:13 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020606174039.GO24561@zork.net>
References: <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org>
	<1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck> <20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org>
	<1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck> <20020604163208.A22644@zgp.org>
	<1023232074.1579.58.camel@deck> <m2zny9fce0.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020606174039.GO24561@zork.net>
Message-ID: <m2u1og9szm.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "MMaPRoSF" == Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco <monkeymaster@crackmonkey.org> writes:

    MMaPRoSF> All the ANSI C compliance of Objective C, with the
    MMaPRoSF> powerful object system of C++!

Objective-C is way cooler than C++.  It even looks better.

Jake

-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'



From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu  Thu Jun  6 11:14:57 2002
From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [UFO Chicago] redvinegar at the Lyon's Den, June 12th! 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 06 Jun 2002 11:22:07 CDT."
             <20020606112207.D26472@tastytronic.net> 
References: <20020605113836.A2522@tastytronic.net> <200206060345.g563jnGD008353@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
            <20020606112207.D26472@tastytronic.net>
Message-ID: <200206061814.g56IEvPh004483@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>

On Thu, 06 Jun 2002 11:22:07 CDT, "Peter A. Peterson II" said:

> Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa -- whoa.

Hey, be glad I didn't bouncyforward my reply back to the original lists. ;)


From drobnox at visi.com  Thu Jun  6 11:19:18 2002
From: drobnox at visi.com (doctor obnox son of a bitch)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020606174521.GQ24561@zork.net>
References: <20020606174521.GQ24561@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020606181918.GC21008@isis.visi.com>

On Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 10:45:21AM -0700, Nick Moffitt had the audacity to opine:
> I bet you're doing this so that Randy Mills can read over your
> shoulder!
> 
  I bet you wouldn't say that if WALTER FUCKING GROPIUS was still alive!
  Huh?


> ----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net -----
> 
> drobnox@visi.com has been successfully subscribed to CrackMonkey.
> 
> 
> 
> ----- End forwarded message -----
> 
> -- 
> INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
> end 
> 	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
>         ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks
> http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey

-- 
Here's that flapjack                      ........Eric J. Gustafson
Put it in your pocket, 'til I get back    .........................
Goin' downtown, to see a man              .........................
Ain't got time to shake your hand         .........drobnox@visi.com


From jim at musenki.com  Thu Jun  6 11:36:52 2002
From: jim at musenki.com (Jim Thompson)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
	[!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
	notification]
In-Reply-To: <1023377443.1607.7.camel@deck>
References: <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org>
	<6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org>
	<1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck>
	<20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org>
	<1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck>
	<m2vg8xfc97.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<1023324354.1578.67.camel@deck>
	<20020606085426.D23079@zgp.org>
	<1023377443.1607.7.camel@deck>
Message-ID: <15615.43972.150070.22634@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

Joakim Ziegler writes:
> On Thu, 2002-06-06 at 10:54, Don Marti wrote:
> > begin Joakim Ziegler quotation of Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 07:45:51PM -0500:
>  
> >> Yeah, yeah. You Merkins think everyone and everything is in the US, or
> >> can go there easily. Besides, I'm considering joining Alan Cox'
> >> no-US-travel campaign, although I doubt anyone would notice.
> 
> > If we can go to Canada from the USA, you can come to the USA
> > from Mexico.
> 
> This simple statement shows that you've never actually tried to enter
> the US from Mexico (as a non-US citizen). I was once held up for four
> hours in immigration in Austin, because I needed a return ticket not to
> my country of residence (Mexico), but to *Norway*. Now, that problem was
> eventually solved, although the solution involved paying a 150 dollar
> fee and sitting around waiting for the next plane while the smell of
> barbecue sauce hung heavily in the air, but sitting in the immigration
> waiting room is an interesting experience. The sheer level of harassment
> experienced by Mexican citizens (with valid visas, mind you) was
> mind-boggling. And some Chinese grandmother with a green card was held
> back while they used a translator on the *phone* to talk to her (they
> called up the translator, he talked to the immigrations guy, the
> immigrations guy passed the phone to the woman, she talked to the
> translator, passed the phone back, the translator translated, etc.

All true, but if you're Saudi, you sail right through..

Jim

p.s. at leats the BBQ is decent.



From nick at zork.net  Thu Jun  6 11:41:46 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification]
Message-ID: <20020606184146.GS24561@zork.net>

Ha ha jordanbc

	Come to whine, have you?

----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net -----

jordanb@hafd.org has been successfully subscribed to CrackMonkey.



----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Thu Jun  6 11:41:29 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <1023344006.1613.23.camel@deck>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck>
	<m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck>
	<m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023334124.1608.11.camel@deck>
	<m2d6v5f0ku.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023344006.1613.23.camel@deck>
Message-ID: <m2ptz49rmu.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "JZ" == Joakim Ziegler <joakim@avmaria.com> writes:

    JZ> Yes, most GUI builder tools manipulate actual, live
    JZ> widgets. It's pretty well understood that this is the best way
    JZ> of doing things. If you believe that this is not the case,
    JZ> please produce a list of GUI builders that do not (actual,
    JZ> still used software, please, no early-90s crap that noone uses
    JZ> anymore).

Okay, let's start with some GUI builder tools that people actually
use:  MS Visual Studio, JBuilder, and Visual Cafe.  Most of the other
ones I've used are just code generators as well.  See, you need to
have a really dynamic runtime like that libglade thing simulates to
actually do more than prototyping.  C++ and Java are semi-dynamic and
semi-object-oriented, and hence you have to tack on something like
libglade.  I really doubt that most people are writing applications
that way in Linucks, anyway, but who knows.  I'm sure my tools are a
lot better, so I'm less than scared of that junky stuff.

    JZ> Besides, you couldn't *get* a drink where you live at this
    JZ> time, because of the draconian regulations on opening
    JZ> hours. So fuck off.

I can buy big beers until 2:00 a.m.!  I have never had any problem
getting drunk in the United States of America (God bless her liquor
swilling heart).  I think you're really trying to hit below the belt
with this one... because you're a bad foreigner.

    Jz> Actually, photos taken from a high perspective generally make
    JZ> the things in the photo look smaller. And that's not a load,
    JZ> that's my cock that's curled up in a figure-eight around my
    JZ> thighs. Twice.

That's really gross, dude.  You should consider a penis reduction
operation.  That thing will be NO GOOD to you unless you intend to
fuck elephants and stuff.  After the operation you wont have to wear
Snoop-Doggy pants anymore.

    >> It uses a special secret binary makertosher formula that's
    >> owned my Mr. Steven P. Joabs!  And it's much faster than
    >> loading a 10-page XML document.

    JZ> Proprietary == unethical == u sux.

Oh shut up.  You're a crude extremist.  You should be burned at the
stake.  I guess you think it's unethical to go see the new Star Track
movie with Yoda being a ninja just because it's copyrighted.

    >>> Or Python. The guy who makes libglade is the guy who makes
    >>> PyGTK/PyGNOME, so it's very well integrated. It's also
    >>> included in most other GNOME language bindings, as far as I
    >>> know.

Yeah right!  Pshaww!  I looked at it and it's a big mess.  It would
take hours just to figure out how to get started using libglade with
Python.
 
It is at this point I think that I should raise another issue with
gnome.  Gnome has the worst logo I've ever seen.  It's even worse than
Tux the autistical penguin.  It's a dirty, disgusting Richard Stallman
foot!!!!! SICK!1!!!  

The worst thing about the linucx culture is a total and utter lack of
any sense of aesthetics.  And really, this is and area in which OS X
will always and forever be superior, as long as the brilliant and
wonderful Mr. Steven P. Joabs is at the helm.

Jake

-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'



From joakim at abargon.com  Thu Jun  6 10:39:33 2002
From: joakim at abargon.com (Joakim Ziegler)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Bush calls for creation of Death Star
Message-ID: <1023385176.1600.14.camel@deck>

CNN is reporting that Bush wants to build a death star to blow up the
planet if terrorists threaten the US:

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2002/images/06/06/txtop.bush.security.ap.jpg

-- 
Joakim Ziegler



From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu  Thu Jun  6 11:51:10 2002
From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification] 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 06 Jun 2002 11:41:29 PDT."
             <m2ptz49rmu.fsf@cyberstein.org> 
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck> <m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck> <m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023334124.1608.11.camel@deck> <m2d6v5f0ku.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023344006.1613.23.camel@deck>
            <m2ptz49rmu.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <200206061851.g56IpAPh005423@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>

On Thu, 06 Jun 2002 11:41:29 PDT, Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>  said:

> Okay, let's start with some GUI builder tools that people actually
> use:  MS Visual Studio, JBuilder, and Visual Cafe.  Most of the other

s/people/troglodytes/


From smcmahon at eiv.com  Thu Jun  6 11:57:20 2002
From: smcmahon at eiv.com (Shawn McMahon)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <m2ptz49rmu.fsf@cyberstein.org>
References: <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck> <m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck> <m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023334124.1608.11.camel@deck> <m2d6v5f0ku.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023344006.1613.23.camel@deck> <m2ptz49rmu.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <20020606185720.GA4490@eiv.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

begin  Zachary Copley quotation:
> 
> Oh shut up.  You're a crude extremist.  You should be burned at the
> stake.  I guess you think it's unethical to go see the new Star Track
> movie with Yoda being a ninja just because it's copyrighted.

Not if that Lucas guy reassigns his copyright to RMFS.


- -- 
Shawn McMahon                    | McMahon's Laws of Linux support:
http://www.eiv.com               | 1) There's more than one way to do it
AIM: spmcmahonfedex, smcmahoneiv | 2) Somebody thinks your way is wrong
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iEYEARECAAYFAjz/sJAACgkQEcl9bQ0RMt23aACgjMtggTq1++KtI4iWyypPAxg1
pVEAn21owaXl26xanste/P6eiJrpAjsO
=ngAH
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Thu Jun  6 12:07:49 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <200206061851.g56IpAPh005423@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck>
	<m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck>
	<m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023334124.1608.11.camel@deck>
	<m2d6v5f0ku.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023344006.1613.23.camel@deck>
	<m2ptz49rmu.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<200206061851.g56IpAPh005423@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <m2k7pc9qey.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "VK" == Valdis Kletnieks <Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu> writes:

    VK> On Thu, 06 Jun 2002 11:41:29 PDT, Zachary Copley
    VK> <snatcher@bearfountain.com> said:
    >> Okay, let's start with some GUI builder tools that people
    >> actually use:  MS Visual Studio, JBuilder, and Visual Cafe.
    >> Most of the other

    VK> s/people/troglodytes/

%s/Valdis Kletnieks/Snotnose Fuckbob/g

Jake

-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'



From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Thu Jun  6 12:27:53 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020606111955.GU931@perkypants.org>
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck>
	<m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck>
	<m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020606111955.GU931@perkypants.org>
Message-ID: <m2n0u8us06.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "JW" == Jeff Waugh <jdub@perkypants.org> writes:

    JW> It's like a BIG DUMP-TRUCK pulled up next to you and DUMPED
    JW> IGNORANCE all over your pesky little troll head.

Don't steal my fucking insults, they are COPYRIGHTED!!!!  You
uncreative dogfuck!  I know my legal rights.  I will reign down attack
lawyers upon your head like Islamic Jihad.  I will have them burn a
copyright symbol into your forehead with a branding iron, and
sacrifice you on the alter of Moloch, while I use your linucks box as a
makeshift toilet!!!

    JW> a) "slow as fuck": No.

You can't fool me... parsing XML is expensive.  SAX, DOM, it doesn't
matter.

    JW> b) "objects unmarshalled from XML": Jesus Christ, it's a UI
    JW> description format, not a fucking object store.

What the fuck do you think and object store is?  Those objects are
being serialized as XML on the file system.  I am so sick and tired of
you linucksy linuxcers talking real technical about things you don't
understand.  You pepper your posts with lingo and buzzwords and
acronyms and get all pedantic, but when it comes right down to it,
you're blowing smoke out your ass so hard that your butthole looks
like a trumpet.

    JW> BACK TO YOUR TROLL HOLE, Zachary Pissant!

Fuck off!!  I am taking trolling to a whole new level!  You don't know
trolling!  You can't handle trolling!  I'm breaking new ground and
kicking ass right in the dark and dirty bunghole of Linucksdom!  For
the betterment of mankind.

Jake


-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'



From mr.bad at pigdog.org  Thu Jun  6 03:48:35 2002
From: mr.bad at pigdog.org (Mister Bad)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <1023344006.1613.23.camel@deck> (Joakim Ziegler's message of
 "06 Jun 2002 01:13:23 -0500")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
	<m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck>
	<m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck>
	<m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023334124.1608.11.camel@deck>
	<m2d6v5f0ku.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023344006.1613.23.camel@deck>
Message-ID: <87y9ds8yyk.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

>>>>> "JZ" == Joakim Ziegler <joakim@avmaria.com> writes:

    JZ> Ahem. I never lived "there". I'm from a country with a
    JZ> functional healthcare and social security system, where trains
    JZ> are a viable means of transportation, we never interned the
    JZ> Japanese or stole the land from the Native Americans, and with
    JZ> one of the strongest econonomies in the world. Behold,
    JZ> Norway.

Now, isn't that the desmesnes of the same Braided Ice Police that has
Jon Johannsen shackled in some kind of SNOW DUNGEON?

I think since you left they changed the name to "Sony/Norway."

~Mr. Bad

-- 
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 /\____/\    Mr. Bad <mr.bad@pigdog.org>
 \      /    Pigdog Journal | http://pigdog.org/ |  RoR - Alucard
 |  (X \x)   
 (    ((**)  "How hard it is to hide the fact that you care about
  \  <vvv>    something. How right people are to doubt suavity."
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From junasts at subdimension.com  Wed Jun  5 04:51:11 2002
From: junasts at subdimension.com (Last Judgement Samuel)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <oqbsaqwkqb.fsf@balthasar.nat> (Miles Nordin's message of "04
 Jun 2002 21:57:31 -0400")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6uit4ztmq6.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m24rgihmtc.fsf@cyberstein.org> <oqbsaqwkqb.fsf@balthasar.nat>
Message-ID: <87elfmoseo.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

>>>>> "MN" == Miles Nordin <carton@Ivy.NET> writes:

    zc> You dumb ass.  You don't know what the F you're talking about.
    zc> Darwin is a fucking monolithic kernel.

    MN> Bend over a little further, you sheeplike anklegrabbing
    MN> zealot.  

Hey, this is going to be a good one! My two favorite flame warriors
going HEAD TO HEAD. Beaujolais!

The only thing that would make it better is if Mr. Tjames were
here.

                                           -- Last Judgement Samuel

-- 
+++ Last Judgement Samuel + junasts@subdimension.com + 0x8D3E92DE +++


From mr.bad at pigdog.org  Wed Jun  5 19:04:34 2002
From: mr.bad at pigdog.org (Mister Bad)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: Subject Line Noise (Re: [Zachary Copley
 <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net:
 CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification])
In-Reply-To: <m27kldck0q.fsf@cyberstein.org> (Zachary Copley's message of
 "05 Jun 2002 17:45:25 -0700")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604143231.GU24561@zork.net>
	<m28z5uhmy6.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604210721.GB24561@zork.net>
	<87elfmn3nz.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
	<20020605214325.GG24561@zork.net> <m27kldck0q.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <878z5tyxfx.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

>>>>> "ZC" == Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com> writes:

    ZC> It was actually "Why are you coming on so heavy?  I would
    ZC> never hire you if you come on so heavy."  And it's from the
    ZC> courtroom scene in this movie:

    ZC>    http://www.gonzo.org/books/other/wtbr/

You know, I still haven't seen that.

Maybe I'll rent the version fran?ais! I guess I'd have to get a TV for
that, though.

Spiderman kicked serious ass in French, though.

~Mr. Bad

-- 
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 /\____/\    Mr. Bad <mr.bad@pigdog.org>
 \      /    Pigdog Journal | http://pigdog.org/ |  RoR - Alucard
 |  (X \x)   
 (    ((**)  "How hard it is to hide the fact that you care about
  \  <vvv>    something. How right people are to doubt suavity."
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From dmarti at zgp.org  Thu Jun  6 13:01:09 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <m2n0u8us06.fsf@cyberstein.org>; from snatcher@bearfountain.com on Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 12:27:53PM -0700
References: <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck> <m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck> <m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020606111955.GU931@perkypants.org> <m2n0u8us06.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <20020606130109.A29475@zgp.org>

begin Zachary Copley quotation of Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 12:27:53PM -0700:

> For the betterment of mankind.

"Mankind" consisting of Adobe, the DVD CCA, patent lawyers, and
who else?

(Not that GNOME developers aren't chicken to participate in a
one-on-one cage bout, of course.  We must hold that against them.)

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From junasts at subdimension.com  Thu Jun  6 03:50:34 2002
From: junasts at subdimension.com (Last Judgement Samuel)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <6uofeorc97.fsf@zork.zork.net> (Sean Neakums's message of "Thu,
 06 Jun 2002 10:24:04 +0100")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6uit4ztmq6.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m24rgihmtc.fsf@cyberstein.org> <oqbsaqwkqb.fsf@balthasar.nat>
	<m2it4xz2mi.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6uadq8svsu.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<15615.8549.801825.817513@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<6usn40rcoc.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<15615.10492.855941.201505@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<6uofeorc97.fsf@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <87sn408yv9.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

>>>>> "SN" == Sean Neakums <sneakums@zork.net> writes:

    SN> No, I don't think you should be writing for Boardwatch.

That rag is no good since they canned Strom Thark.

                                      -- Last Judgement Samuel

-- 
+++ Last Judgement Samuel + junasts@subdimension.com + 0x8D3E92DE +++


From drobnox at visi.com  Thu Jun  6 13:04:32 2002
From: drobnox at visi.com (doctor obnox son of a bitch)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <87y9ds8yyk.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck> <m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck> <m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023334124.1608.11.camel@deck> <m2d6v5f0ku.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023344006.1613.23.camel@deck> <87y9ds8yyk.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <20020606200432.GB4793@isis.visi.com>

On Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 06:48:35AM -0400, Mister Bad had the audacity to opine:
> >>>>> "JZ" == Joakim Ziegler <joakim@avmaria.com> writes:
> 
>     JZ> Ahem. I never lived "there". I'm from a country with a
>     JZ> functional healthcare and social security system, where trains
>     JZ> are a viable means of transportation, we never interned the
>     JZ> Japanese or stole the land from the Native Americans, and with
>     JZ> one of the strongest econonomies in the world. Behold,
>     JZ> Norway.
> 
> Now, isn't that the desmesnes of the same Braided Ice Police that has
> Jon Johannsen shackled in some kind of SNOW DUNGEON?
> 
> I think since you left they changed the name to "Sony/Norway."
> 
> ~Mr. Bad
> 

If it's so great why did so many emigrate? There have to be more
Norwedgies here than there.

-- 
Here's that flapjack                      ........Eric J. Gustafson
Put it in your pocket, 'til I get back    .........................
Goin' downtown, to see a man              .........................
Ain't got time to shake your hand         .........drobnox@visi.com


From drobnox at visi.com  Thu Jun  6 13:21:03 2002
From: drobnox at visi.com (doctor obnox son of a bitch)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: Subject Line Noise (Re: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification])
In-Reply-To: <878z5tyxfx.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604143231.GU24561@zork.net> <m28z5uhmy6.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604210721.GB24561@zork.net> <87elfmn3nz.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20020605214325.GG24561@zork.net> <m27kldck0q.fsf@cyberstein.org> <878z5tyxfx.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <20020606202103.GC4793@isis.visi.com>

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 10:04:34PM -0400, Mister Bad had the audacity to opine:
> >>>>> "ZC" == Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com> writes:
> 
>     ZC> It was actually "Why are you coming on so heavy?  I would
>     ZC> never hire you if you come on so heavy."  And it's from the
>     ZC> courtroom scene in this movie:
> 
>     ZC>    http://www.gonzo.org/books/other/wtbr/
> 
> You know, I still haven't seen that.
> 
> Maybe I'll rent the version français! I guess I'd have to get a TV for
> that, though.
> 
  You'd also have to quote all the quotable bits in fransh.


  "The screwheads took my daughter away."

  "I've never had any complaints about the red ones."

  "I can do this. I'm a total professional."

> Spiderman kicked serious ass in French, though.
> 
> ~Mr. Bad
> 
> -- 
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  /\____/\    Mr. Bad <mr.bad@pigdog.org>
>  \      /    Pigdog Journal | http://pigdog.org/ |  RoR - Alucard
>  |  (X \x)   
>  (    ((**)  "How hard it is to hide the fact that you care about
>   \  <vvv>    something. How right people are to doubt suavity."
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks
> http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey

-- 
Here's that flapjack                      ........Eric J. Gustafson
Put it in your pocket, 'til I get back    .........................
Goin' downtown, to see a man              .........................
Ain't got time to shake your hand         .........drobnox@visi.com


From jim at musenki.com  Thu Jun  6 14:08:50 2002
From: jim at musenki.com (Jim Thompson)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: Subject Line Noise (Re: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification])
In-Reply-To: <20020606202103.GC4793@isis.visi.com>
References: <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org>
	<6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604143231.GU24561@zork.net>
	<m28z5uhmy6.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604210721.GB24561@zork.net>
	<87elfmn3nz.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
	<20020605214325.GG24561@zork.net>
	<m27kldck0q.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<878z5tyxfx.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
	<20020606202103.GC4793@isis.visi.com>
Message-ID: <15615.53090.168121.753226@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

> >     ZC>    http://www.gonzo.org/books/other/wtbr/
> > 
> > You know, I still haven't seen that.
> > 
> > Maybe I'll rent the version fran?ais! I guess I'd have to get a TV for
> > that, though.
> > 
>   You'd also have to quote all the quotable bits in fransh.
> 
>   "The screwheads took my daughter away."
> 
>   "I've never had any complaints about the red ones."
> 
>   "I can do this. I'm a total professional."

Don't bother.  Hunter S. Thompson *hates* this movie, with reason.
Its complete crap.  http://www.gonzo.org/hst/ht/collegep3.html

"... I would say once a day is ... a lot..."

http://www.gonzo.org/fun/sound/recall.mp3

Jim
(who's only son is named "Hunter Speed".)

-- 
"Perl is basically TECO-99."  ---Barry Shein



From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Thu Jun  6 14:57:44 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: Subject Line Noise (Re: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification])
In-Reply-To: <15615.53090.168121.753226@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org>
	<6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604143231.GU24561@zork.net> <m28z5uhmy6.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604210721.GB24561@zork.net>
	<87elfmn3nz.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
	<20020605214325.GG24561@zork.net> <m27kldck0q.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<878z5tyxfx.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
	<20020606202103.GC4793@isis.visi.com>
	<15615.53090.168121.753226@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <m2ptz41353.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "JT" == Jim Thompson <jim@musenki.com> writes:

    >> "I can do this. I'm a total professional."

    JT> Don't bother.  Hunter S. Thompson *hates* this movie, with
    JT> reason.  Its complete crap.

It's GREAT crap.  I have seen it probably 50 times.  Highly
recommended.

Jake

-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'



From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Thu Jun  6 15:01:05 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020606130109.A29475@zgp.org>
References: <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck> <m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck> <m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020606111955.GU931@perkypants.org> <m2n0u8us06.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020606130109.A29475@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <m2k7pc12zi.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "DM" == Don Marti <dmarti@zgp.org> writes:

    DM> begin Zachary Copley quotation of Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at
    DM> 12:27:53PM -0700:
    >> For the betterment of mankind.

    DM> "Mankind" consisting of Adobe, the DVD CCA, patent lawyers,
    DM> and who else?

You guys need to find some other guy to pick on.  I use lots of
free software, and I donate ca$h money to open source projects.

You're just mad that when you tally all the bits and bytes, pure free
software amounts to an *inferior* set of computing tools compared to
something mixed-license like OS X.  Instead of attacking everything
that's not pure, maybe if you stopped gloating and feeling so
self-satisfied with your Windows 95-esque dirty foot programs, you
could fill in the terrible holes in functionality and usability that
free software has right now.

Jake

-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'


From drobnox at visi.com  Thu Jun  6 15:17:35 2002
From: drobnox at visi.com (doctor obnox son of a bitch)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: Subject Line Noise (Re: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification])
In-Reply-To: <m2ptz41353.fsf@cyberstein.org>
References: <20020604143231.GU24561@zork.net> <m28z5uhmy6.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020604210721.GB24561@zork.net> <87elfmn3nz.fsf_-_@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20020605214325.GG24561@zork.net> <m27kldck0q.fsf@cyberstein.org> <878z5tyxfx.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20020606202103.GC4793@isis.visi.com> <15615.53090.168121.753226@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <m2ptz41353.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <20020606221735.GA13084@isis.visi.com>

On Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 02:57:44PM -0700, Zachary Copley had the audacity to opine:
> >>>>> "JT" == Jim Thompson <jim@musenki.com> writes:
> 
>     >> "I can do this. I'm a total professional."
> 
>     JT> Don't bother.  Hunter S. Thompson *hates* this movie, with
>     JT> reason.  Its complete crap.
> 
> It's GREAT crap.  I have seen it probably 50 times.  Highly
> recommended.
> 

 Only movie I've ever seen where someone tries to drive and type at the
 same time.
-- 
Here's that flapjack                      ........Eric J. Gustafson
Put it in your pocket, 'til I get back    .........................
Goin' downtown, to see a man              .........................
Ain't got time to shake your hand         .........drobnox@visi.com


From zen at zork.net  Thu Jun  6 15:24:54 2002
From: zen at zork.net (George Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Bush calls for creation of Death Star
In-Reply-To: <1023385176.1600.14.camel@deck>
References: <1023385176.1600.14.camel@deck>
Message-ID: <20020606222454.GA3673@zork.net>

begin  Joakim Ziegler  uuencoded stream:
> CNN is reporting that Bush wants to build a death star to blow up the
> planet if terrorists threaten the US:

	Frankly, I'm disappointed.  Attack of the Clowns has been out
for a month or so already, and we've known what it was about since
1948, and only NOW does somebody make this stupid joke?
	I dare somebody to start talking about the military industrial
complex.  Then we can all have a big, fat, intellectual conversation
where we show off what we learned in our high school US History
classes.
	Or you can put your fake fangs back on and GTFOML.

-- 
http://www.georgebox.org - Where I keep all my stuff.
http://www.emgnulation.org - Freedom in the emulation community.
http://www.robotfindskitten.org - Gaming innovation.
                george@georgebox.org


From henrik at enberg.org  Thu Jun  6 15:36:30 2002
From: henrik at enberg.org (Henrik Enberg)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <m2k7pc12zi.fsf@cyberstein.org> (Zachary Copley's message of
 "06 Jun 2002 15:01:05 -0700")
References: <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck> <m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck> <m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020606111955.GU931@perkypants.org> <m2n0u8us06.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020606130109.A29475@zgp.org> <m2k7pc12zi.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <87k7pcqbkh.fsf@enberg.org>

Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com> writes:

> You're just mad that when you tally all the bits and bytes, pure free
> software amounts to an *inferior* set of computing tools compared to
> something mixed-license like OS X.

Someone should post a Ben Franklin quote here.

> Instead of attacking everything that's not pure, maybe if you stopped
> gloating and feeling so self-satisfied with your Windows 95-esque
> dirty foot programs, you could fill in the terrible holes in
> functionality and usability that free software has right now.

Those of us who are properly leet don't use dirty foot programs.  There
are better UIs than candy-coated, overlapping, wrong-sized windows.

-- 
Yo mama's so stupid, it takes her an hour to cook minute rice.


From zen at zork.net  Thu Jun  6 15:27:04 2002
From: zen at zork.net (George Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:14 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020606181918.GC21008@isis.visi.com>
References: <20020606174521.GQ24561@zork.net> <20020606181918.GC21008@isis.visi.com>
Message-ID: <20020606222703.GB3673@zork.net>

begin  doctor obnox son of a bitch  uuencoded stream:
> > I bet you're doing this so that Randy Mills can read over your
> > shoulder!
> > 
>   I bet you wouldn't say that if WALTER FUCKING GROPIUS was still alive!
>   Huh?
> 
> 
> > ----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net -----

	WE HAVE YOU SURROUNDED!  PUT DOWN THE PINE!

-- 
http://www.georgebox.org - Where I keep all my stuff.
http://www.emgnulation.org - Freedom in the emulation community.
http://www.robotfindskitten.org - Gaming innovation.
                george@georgebox.org


From dmarti at zgp.org  Thu Jun  6 15:46:52 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <m2k7pc12zi.fsf@cyberstein.org>; from snatcher@bearfountain.com on Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 03:01:05PM -0700
References: <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck> <m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck> <m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020606111955.GU931@perkypants.org> <m2n0u8us06.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020606130109.A29475@zgp.org> <m2k7pc12zi.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <20020606154652.A314@zgp.org>

begin Zachary Copley quotation of Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 03:01:05PM -0700:

> You're just mad that when you tally all the bits and bytes, pure free
> software amounts to an *inferior* set of computing tools compared to
> something mixed-license like OS X.

One GNOME developer decides not to participate in a cage bout,
and that makes the tools inferior?  Please.  All we've established
so far is that Joakim Ziegler is a big chicken.

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From dmarti at zgp.org  Thu Jun  6 15:53:18 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] All hail!
Message-ID: <20020606155318.A666@zgp.org>

Slashdot is so fuckin' Insightful(+1) it _hurts_!
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=33781&cid=3654963

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From jv at zork.net  Thu Jun  6 16:04:04 2002
From: jv at zork.net (Juggler Vain)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] ?Nutri-*Suit*-Icles... ?Frozen edible clothes
Message-ID: <20020606230404.GA20917@zork.net>

Suzi Savannah, the Vamp of Madison Avenue, drops exctasy, & metabolises
last season's "functional foods" into "nutriceuticals"... ?plague of the
month... !get up-to-date virus protection from ADM/Nestle.  -jv... atari


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Thu Jun  6 16:04:18 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] All hail!
In-Reply-To: <20020606155318.A666@zgp.org>
References: <20020606155318.A666@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <20020606230418.GT24561@zork.net>

begin  Don Marti Lives Three Hours from Nowhere  quotation:
> Slashdot is so fuckin' Insightful(+1) it _hurts_!
> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=33781&cid=3654963

	What, this is news?

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From joakim at abargon.com  Thu Jun  6 15:28:34 2002
From: joakim at abargon.com (Joakim Ziegler)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Bush calls for creation of Death Star
In-Reply-To: <20020606222454.GA3673@zork.net>
References: <1023385176.1600.14.camel@deck> 
	<20020606222454.GA3673@zork.net>
Message-ID: <1023402518.1610.24.camel@deck>

On Thu, 2002-06-06 at 17:24, George Moffitt wrote:
> begin  Joakim Ziegler  uuencoded stream:
>> CNN is reporting that Bush wants to build a death star to blow up the
>> planet if terrorists threaten the US:

> 	Frankly, I'm disappointed.  Attack of the Clowns has been out
> for a month or so already, and we've known what it was about since
> 1948, and only NOW does somebody make this stupid joke?
> 	I dare somebody to start talking about the military industrial
> complex.  Then we can all have a big, fat, intellectual conversation
> where we show off what we learned in our high school US History
> classes.
> 	Or you can put your fake fangs back on and GTFOML.

I was actually referring to the hologram projection of the schematics
for a deathstar, hovering above Bush's shoulder in that image.
 
-- 
Joakim Ziegler



From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Thu Jun  6 16:12:54 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020606154652.A314@zgp.org>
References: <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck> <m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck> <m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020606111955.GU931@perkypants.org> <m2n0u8us06.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020606130109.A29475@zgp.org> <m2k7pc12zi.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020606154652.A314@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <m2wutcdmrt.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "DM" == Don Marti <dmarti@zgp.org> writes:

    DM> begin Zachary Copley quotation of Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at
    DM> 03:01:05PM -0700:
    >> You're just mad that when you tally all the bits and bytes,
    >> pure free software amounts to an *inferior* set of computing
    >> tools compared to something mixed-license like OS X.

    DM> One GNOME developer decides not to participate in a cage bout,
    DM> and that makes the tools inferior?  Please.  All we've
    DM> established so far is that Joakim Ziegler is a big chicken.

I'm talking about the entire platform.  As far as gnome goes,
regardless of whether the development tools are inferior (they are),
the finished products certainly are.

Jake

-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'



From nick at zork.net  Thu Jun  6 16:23:51 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Goddamn economy
Message-ID: <20020606232351.GU24561@zork.net>

http://girl.youmustbetrippin.com/2002_06_01_archive.php#77353943
>  now, some of them have official websites... like FARC
>  (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia) [http://www.farc-ep.org -
>  cut and paste. i don't want this page showing up in referrers. =D]
>  for example. as you can see, the design dates back to circa 1996
>  when geocities sites were bleeding edge. 

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From aelmore at interwoven.com  Thu Jun  6 16:53:13 2002
From: aelmore at interwoven.com (Andrew Elmore)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] freaks geeks hobos
Message-ID: <20020606165313.P27627@interwoven.com>

"... in the words of reader Tom Radulovich: 'I saw 'Attack of the Clones' at
the AMC 1000 last week. We arrived an hour early for the movie, but
there was already a long line. My friend Deep, a programmer himself,
took a good look at the crowd and observed, "Every Unix server in the
city is unattended right now. " ' "

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2002/06/06/MN161689.DTL


From jv at zork.net  Thu Jun  6 17:06:28 2002
From: jv at zork.net (Juggler Vain)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: FutureStep (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] All hail!)
In-Reply-To: <20020606230418.GT24561@zork.net>
References: <20020606155318.A666@zgp.org> <20020606230418.GT24561@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020607000628.GB20917@zork.net>

begin  Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco quotation:
> begin  Don Marti Lives Three Hours from Nowhere  quotation:
> > Slashdot is so fuckin' Insightful(+1) it _hurts_!
> > http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=33781&cid=3654963
> 	What, this is news?

Inciteful... more on this, soon; but, dig:  

FutureStep... I don't know what they sell, & I care little... when I
hear the name during npr's enhanced underwiting credits, thoughts of paw
on kitty-litter attenuate my aural input... -jv... Manchurian Consumer

p.s... 

-=-
From dmarti at zgp.org  Thu Jun  6 17:29:32 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] All hail!
In-Reply-To: <20020606230418.GT24561@zork.net>; from monkeymaster@crackmonkey.org on Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 04:04:18PM -0700
References: <20020606155318.A666@zgp.org> <20020606230418.GT24561@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020606172932.C1689@zgp.org>

begin Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco quotation of Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 04:04:18PM -0700:

> 	What, this is news?

Excuse me if I missed the "all postings must be news" rule,

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From crackdonkey at donkeyshow.org  Thu Jun  6 17:33:07 2002
From: crackdonkey at donkeyshow.org (#2 of Berkeley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: FutureStep (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] All hail!)
In-Reply-To: <20020607000628.GB20917@zork.net>
Message-ID: <Running.Gag.4.33.0206061732340.16838-100000@vax.hanford.org>

On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, Juggler Vain wrote:

<blah blah blah>

why must you crosspost pigdog and crackmonkey on every post?



From dep at linuxandmain.com  Thu Jun  6 17:40:37 2002
From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: FutureStep (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] All hail!)
In-Reply-To: <Running.Gag.4.33.0206061732340.16838-100000@vax.hanford.org>
References: <Running.Gag.4.33.0206061732340.16838-100000@vax.hanford.org>
Message-ID: <200206062040.37455.dep@linuxandmain.com>

begin  #2 of Berkeley's  quote:
| On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, Juggler Vain wrote:
|
| <blah blah blah>
|
| why must you crosspost pigdog and crackmonkey on every post?

not just that. he posts the same stuff to pigmonkey and crackdog, too.
-- 
dep

http://www.linuxandmain.com -- outside the box, barely within the 
envelope, and no animated paperclip anywhere.


From dep at linuxandmain.com  Thu Jun  6 17:44:09 2002
From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Fwd: [os2-right-stuff] We pride ourselves on never closing
Message-ID: <200206062044.09236.dep@linuxandmain.com>

austria surrenders to the mighty yank johnson; sailors will have to 
spank the admiral themselves.

----------  Forwarded Message  ----------

Subject: [os2-right-stuff] We pride ourselves on never closing
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 00:43:41 +0000
From: Paul Lewis <paul.lewis@karachi.freeuk.com>
To: os2-right-stuff@yahoogroups.com

Private Eye 31 May.

"We pride ourselves on never closing, but we've got our professional
reputation to protect, as the biggest and best brothel in Australia,"
Mary-Anne Kenworthy told reporters in Fremantle, "and I'd rather take
nothing than offer a poor service. After three days, it was clear to
 me that my girls just couldn't cope any more. So rather than risk
 compromising our position, I took the decision to close our doors
 for the first time this millennium".

Ms. Kenworthy, the madam of Langtrees brothel, was speaking after a
 huge influx of American sailors (from the USS Port Royal, the USS
 Bridge, and the USS John C Stennis) had suddenly overwhelmed her
 prostitution buisness. "5,500 sailors disembarked at the docks on
 Sunday, most of whom had been taking part in the war against terror.
 They were stressed, because they'd been in a war zone, and they were
 a lot more agitated sexually than is usual, because they'd been at
 sea too long. There were queues around the block, and although my
 girls did their best, they gradually became more and more clapped
 out. I have a reserve list of 30 girls, but even they were exausted
 and there still seemed to be no end in sight. By the third day, many
 of the girls were unable to walk, and were refusing to have sex, and
 were asking for money just for taking their clothes off. That's
 immoral behaviour in my book, and that's when I decided to close the
 doors.

"We usually find the Yanks are hard work, but lots of fun, but I wish
the navy would dribble-feed them in. Couldn't they fly them in a
thousand at a time, instead of unloading them all at once? That way
 we could cope. And I wish they wouldn't bring along their bloody
 chewing gum and tights. That sort of thing no longer impresses the
 girls". (AAP, 2/5/02)

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
 ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors,
front doors, drawers, briefcases,
padlocks, and more. On sale now!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/.DlolB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------
~->

This message was brought to you by "OS/2: The Right Stuff".

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-------------------------------------------------------

-- 
dep

http://www.linuxandmain.com -- outside the box, barely within the 
envelope, and no animated paperclip anywhere.


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Thu Jun  6 17:55:33 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Fwd: [os2-right-stuff] We pride ourselves on never closing
In-Reply-To: <200206062044.09236.dep@linuxandmain.com>
References: <200206062044.09236.dep@linuxandmain.com>
Message-ID: <20020607005533.GV24561@zork.net>

begin  dep  quotation:
> austria surrenders to the mighty yank johnson; sailors will have to 
> spank the admiral themselves.
[...]
> This message was brought to you by "OS/2: The Right Stuff".

	Yes.  Yes it was.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From nick at zork.net  Thu Jun  6 18:11:14 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] ha ha turned orange
Message-ID: <20020607011113.GW24561@zork.net>

http://www.steelgirl.com/carrot.htm
> Can your skin turn orange if you eat too many carrots? We plan to
> answer that question as I go on a carrot diet for thirty days.

	Man, so *that's* what was doing it!

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From dmarti at zgp.org  Thu Jun  6 18:32:14 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] ha ha turned orange
In-Reply-To: <20020607011113.GW24561@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 06:11:14PM -0700
References: <20020607011113.GW24561@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020606183214.A2540@zgp.org>

begin Nick Moffitt quotation of Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 06:11:14PM -0700:

> http://www.steelgirl.com/carrot.htm
> > Can your skin turn orange if you eat too many carrots? We plan to
> > answer that question as I go on a carrot diet for thirty days.
> 
> 	Man, so *that's* what was doing it!

I looked up carotenemia and Dr. Raymond D Pitetti, MD, MPH says:

"Activity: No restrictions are necessary."
http://www.emedicine.com/ped/topic326.htm

So if you eat so many carrots your skin starts to change color,
you should enjoy total freedom!  Anarchy: clinically Recommended
by medical science for people who eat lots of carrots.

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From jordanb at hafd.org  Thu Jun  6 19:18:01 2002
From: jordanb at hafd.org (Jordan Bettis)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] (no subject)
Message-ID: <E17G9KD-0006Ir-00@gandalf.hafd.org>

/home/jordanb/easy-j


From laz at clustermonkey.org  Thu Jun  6 19:35:52 2002
From: laz at clustermonkey.org (Adam Lazur)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] All hail!
In-Reply-To: <20020606230418.GT24561@zork.net>
References: <20020606155318.A666@zgp.org> <20020606230418.GT24561@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020607023552.GB12189@x-o.clustermonkey.org>

Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco (monkeymaster@crackmonkey.org) said:
> begin  Don Marti Lives Three Hours from Nowhere  quotation:
> > Slashdot is so fuckin' Insightful(+1) it _hurts_!
> > http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=33781&cid=3654963
> 
> 	What, this is news?
> 

No, and neither is this:

http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=32156&cid=3468107

-- 
Adam Lazur, Cluster Monkey


From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Thu Jun  6 22:31:42 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] All hail!
In-Reply-To: <20020607023552.GB12189@x-o.clustermonkey.org>
References: <20020606155318.A666@zgp.org> <20020606230418.GT24561@zork.net>
	<20020607023552.GB12189@x-o.clustermonkey.org>
Message-ID: <m2fzzz1wox.fsf@cyberstein.org>

You assholes.

You're smarter than I thought.  No irate and snobby messages from you
for hours and hours.

Jake

-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'



From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Thu Jun  6 22:53:54 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] All hail!
In-Reply-To: <m2fzzz1wox.fsf@cyberstein.org>
References: <20020606155318.A666@zgp.org> <20020606230418.GT24561@zork.net> <20020607023552.GB12189@x-o.clustermonkey.org> <m2fzzz1wox.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <20020607055354.GZ24561@zork.net>

begin  Zachary Copley  quotation:
> You assholes.
> 
> You're smarter than I thought.  No irate and snobby messages from you
> for hours and hours.

	Must be time to start drinking.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From nick at zork.net  Thu Jun  6 23:21:17 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Glass is solid, experts say
Message-ID: <20020607062116.GB24561@zork.net>

http://www.ualberta.ca/~bderksen/florin.html
> How did the "glass is a supercooled liquid" urban legend originate?
> It is possible it began with an erroneous reading of an influential
> book by Gustav Tammann (1861-1938), a German physicist who was among
> the first to study glass as a thermodynamic system (Tammann, 1933).
> I was unable to locate a copy of Tammann's book to verify this, so
> the following is speculation. One or two papers I consulted
> attributed to Tammann the statement "Glass is a supercooled [or
> undercooled] liquid." But, from other papers, it appears that what
> Tammann actually wrote was "Glass is a frozen supercooled liquid"
> [my emphasis]. My speculation is that an author misquoted Tammann,
> and this misquotation was repeated by later authors who, since
> copies of Tammann's book are rather rare, did not refer directly to
> Tammann.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From mark at symonds.net  Thu Jun  6 23:51:09 2002
From: mark at symonds.net (Mark Symonds)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Lest we forget ...
Message-ID: <20020607065109.GA12530@symonds.net>

http://www.crackmonkey.org/pipermail/crackmonkey/2001q3/021733.html

-- 
Mark


From nick at zork.net  Fri Jun  7 00:24:40 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Periodic Table
Message-ID: <20020607072440.GF24561@zork.net>

http://theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/

	This ish kicks ass!

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From sneakums at zork.net  Fri Jun  7 00:35:54 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <m2u1og9szm.fsf@cyberstein.org> (Zachary Copley's message of
 "06 Jun 2002 11:12:13 -0700")
References: <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org>
	<1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck> <20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org>
	<1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck> <20020604163208.A22644@zgp.org>
	<1023232074.1579.58.camel@deck> <m2zny9fce0.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020606174039.GO24561@zork.net> <m2u1og9szm.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <6u3cvzr15x.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Zachary Copley quotation:

>>>>>> "MMaPRoSF" == Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco <monkeymaster@crackmonkey.org> writes:
>
>     MMaPRoSF> All the ANSI C compliance of Objective C, with the
>     MMaPRoSF> powerful object system of C++!
>
> Objective-C is way cooler than C++.  It even looks better.

With Objective C you can't put objects on the stack, though, so you
wind up not being able to do nifty C++-style things such as the
"resource allocation is initialisation" technique.  But the Objective
C message-send syntax *is* a lot nicer than C++-style method calls,
especially when it comes to nesting calls.

-- 
"Henceforth, my homepage will be SSL-accessible only.
 I do not propose to explain why."
	-- Eamon de Valera


From sneakums at zork.net  Fri Jun  7 00:44:57 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: FutureStep (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] All hail!)
In-Reply-To: <Running.Gag.4.33.0206061732340.16838-100000@vax.hanford.org> (#2
 of Berkeley's message of "Thu, 6 Jun 2002 17:33:07 -0700 (PDT)")
References: <Running.Gag.4.33.0206061732340.16838-100000@vax.hanford.org>
Message-ID: <6uvg8vpm6e.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  #2 of Berkeley quotation:

> On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, Juggler Vain wrote:
>
> <blah blah blah>
>
> why must you crosspost pigdog and crackmonkey on every post?

Why is your every post littered wuth gummy pubic hairs?  Can't you
just WASH YOUR GODDAMNED HANDS before you post?  I guess not.

-- 
"You don't drink, you don't get high;
 so make sure you take your medicine, boy."
	-- Eamon de Valera


From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Fri Jun  7 00:59:09 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <6u3cvzr15x.fsf@zork.zork.net>
References: <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org>
	<1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck> <20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org>
	<1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck> <20020604163208.A22644@zgp.org>
	<1023232074.1579.58.camel@deck> <m2zny9fce0.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020606174039.GO24561@zork.net> <m2u1og9szm.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6u3cvzr15x.fsf@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <m2bsan1pv6.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "SN" == Sean Neakums <sneakums@zork.net> writes:

    SN> With Objective C you can't put objects on the stack

This has got to be the most idiotic thing you have said this week.

Jake

-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'



From schoen at loyalty.org  Fri Jun  7 01:02:47 2002
From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] ha ha turned orange
In-Reply-To: <20020606183214.A2540@zgp.org>
References: <20020607011113.GW24561@zork.net> <20020606183214.A2540@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <20020607080247.GL25423@zork.net>

Don Marti writes:

> begin Nick Moffitt quotation of Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 06:11:14PM -0700:
> 
> > http://www.steelgirl.com/carrot.htm
> > > Can your skin turn orange if you eat too many carrots? We plan to
> > > answer that question as I go on a carrot diet for thirty days.
> > 
> > 	Man, so *that's* what was doing it!
> 
> I looked up carotenemia and Dr. Raymond D Pitetti, MD, MPH says:
> 
> "Activity: No restrictions are necessary."
> http://www.emedicine.com/ped/topic326.htm

Everyone should hurry and read _The Orange Man, and Other Narratives
of Medical Detection_ by Berton Roueché.  It's great!  (So's Roueché's
other stuff.)

Carotenemia-lycopenemia!  And how to diagnose it!

-- 
Seth David Schoen <schoen@loyalty.org> | Reading is a right, not a feature!
     http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/   |                 -- Kathryn Myronuk
     http://vitanuova.loyalty.org/     |


From sneakums at zork.net  Fri Jun  7 01:15:14 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <m2bsan1pv6.fsf@cyberstein.org> (Zachary Copley's message of
 "07 Jun 2002 00:59:09 -0700")
References: <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org>
	<1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck> <20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org>
	<1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck> <20020604163208.A22644@zgp.org>
	<1023232074.1579.58.camel@deck> <m2zny9fce0.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020606174039.GO24561@zork.net> <m2u1og9szm.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6u3cvzr15x.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2bsan1pv6.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <6ur8jjpkrx.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Zachary Copley quotation:

>>>>>> "SN" == Sean Neakums <sneakums@zork.net> writes:
>
>     SN> With Objective C you can't put objects on the stack
>
> This has got to be the most idiotic thing you have said this week.

Ah, my bad.  So you can.

However, Objective C doesn't have automatic destructors, so you still
can't do the "resource allocation is initialisation" thing I
mentioned.

-- 
"WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP WHAAAAAAAAA!!!  I'M
 CRAAAAAZY SIGGMUNDD!!!! GAR!!! GAR!!! GAR!!! GAR!!! GAR!!!  NEE'ME
 S'MORE O'THAT SHIT!"
	-- mike dillon


From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Fri Jun  7 01:39:57 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <6ur8jjpkrx.fsf@zork.zork.net>
References: <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org>
	<1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck> <20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org>
	<1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck> <20020604163208.A22644@zgp.org>
	<1023232074.1579.58.camel@deck> <m2zny9fce0.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020606174039.GO24561@zork.net> <m2u1og9szm.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6u3cvzr15x.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2bsan1pv6.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6ur8jjpkrx.fsf@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <m27klb1nz6.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "SN" == Sean Neakums <sneakums@zork.net> writes:

    SN> However, Objective C doesn't have automatic destructors, so
    SN> you still can't do the "resource allocation is initialisation"
    SN> thing I mentioned.

Sean, it's spelt, "initialization."

Automatic destructors.  Gar.  What you are talking about is
garbage-collection.

I don't want to talk about that right now, because i'm real drunk.
All I know is that you are talking crazy talk.

Jake

-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'



From sneakums at zork.net  Fri Jun  7 01:44:32 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <m27klb1nz6.fsf@cyberstein.org> (Zachary Copley's message of
 "07 Jun 2002 01:39:57 -0700")
References: <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org>
	<1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck> <20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org>
	<1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck> <20020604163208.A22644@zgp.org>
	<1023232074.1579.58.camel@deck> <m2zny9fce0.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020606174039.GO24561@zork.net> <m2u1og9szm.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6u3cvzr15x.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2bsan1pv6.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6ur8jjpkrx.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m27klb1nz6.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <6uit4vpjf3.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Zachary Copley quotation:

>>>>>> "SN" == Sean Neakums <sneakums@zork.net> writes:
>
>     SN> However, Objective C doesn't have automatic destructors, so
>     SN> you still can't do the "resource allocation is initialisation"
>     SN> thing I mentioned.
>
> Sean, it's spelt, "initialization."

If you like being wrong, sure.

> Automatic destructors.  Gar.  What you are talking about is
> garbage-collection.

No, I'm not.

-- 
"Whom the gods wish to destroy they first call promising."
	-- Cyril Connolly


From bradyn at maths.tcd.ie  Fri Jun  7 03:34:57 2002
From: bradyn at maths.tcd.ie (Niall Brady)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <m27klb1nz6.fsf@cyberstein.org>
References: <1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck> <20020604163208.A22644@zgp.org> <1023232074.1579.58.camel@deck> <m2zny9fce0.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020606174039.GO24561@zork.net> <m2u1og9szm.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6u3cvzr15x.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2bsan1pv6.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6ur8jjpkrx.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m27klb1nz6.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <20020607103457.GA61807@walton.maths.tcd.ie>

On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 01:39:57AM -0700, Zachary Copley wrote:
> 
> Sean, it's spelt, "initialization."

Only if you're a fuckhead and not Icelandic.

-- 
	Niall


From pawal at blipp.com  Fri Jun  7 03:58:35 2002
From: pawal at blipp.com (Patrik Wallstrom)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Rullband/PCI
Message-ID: <20020607105835.GD20648@vic20.blipp.com>

A perfect combination of digital and analog audio:
http://www.blipp.com/rullband/

-- 
patrik_wallstrom->foodfight->pawal@blipp.com->+46-709580442


From junasts at subdimension.com  Fri Jun  7 05:01:48 2002
From: junasts at subdimension.com (Last Judgement Samuel)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:15 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] All hail!
In-Reply-To: <m2fzzz1wox.fsf@cyberstein.org> (Zachary Copley's message of
 "06 Jun 2002 22:31:42 -0700")
References: <20020606155318.A666@zgp.org> <20020606230418.GT24561@zork.net>
	<20020607023552.GB12189@x-o.clustermonkey.org>
	<m2fzzz1wox.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <87elfj1emr.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

>>>>> "ZC" == Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com> writes:

    ZC> You're smarter than I thought.  No irate and snobby messages
    ZC> from you for hours and hours.

OK, TROLL-BOY, here's some goddamn FODDER for your RANT MACHINE:

    * There's no such thing as a chupacabra.

    * Canadian "absenthe" is really good but it makes you crazy.

    * Christopher Walken is psychologically unstable.

    * Flax seed has an insufficient amount of omega-3 fatty acids, and
      you shouldn't bother sprinkling it over your Hippio's in the
      morning.

    * Model M keyboards suck.

    * The East Bay is total wimp yuppyland.

    * Yoga is a tool to destroy Western culture. They force you to
      hyperventilate and twist your body into these obscene
      self-fellation positions to get you mentally disoriented, and
      then make you say weird Satan chants over and over until you
      accept their Dark Lord.

    * I saw it on snopes.com so it must be true.

Review and discuss.

                                        -- Last Judgement Samuel

-- 
+++ Last Judgement Samuel + junasts@subdimension.com + 0x8D3E92DE +++


From smcmahon at eiv.com  Fri Jun  7 05:03:06 2002
From: smcmahon at eiv.com (Shawn McMahon)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <87k7pcqbkh.fsf@enberg.org>
References: <m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck> <m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck> <m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020606111955.GU931@perkypants.org> <m2n0u8us06.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020606130109.A29475@zgp.org> <m2k7pc12zi.fsf@cyberstein.org> <87k7pcqbkh.fsf@enberg.org>
Message-ID: <20020607120306.GA7608@eiv.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

begin  Henrik Enberg quotation:
> 
> Someone should post a Ben Franklin quote here.

Ok:

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing.  
     --Ben Franklin


- -- 
Shawn McMahon                    | McMahon's Laws of Linux support:
http://www.eiv.com               | 1) There's more than one way to do it
AIM: spmcmahonfedex, smcmahoneiv | 2) Somebody thinks your way is wrong
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iEYEARECAAYFAj0AoPkACgkQEcl9bQ0RMt3F5wCg87aPY75ioy9F76a7BVUoFg7A
0pYAnReuWUHGi/qiGBy9zk1kIYCRdMFl
=9c1y
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu  Fri Jun  7 05:24:47 2002
From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification] 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jun 2002 00:59:09 PDT."
             <m2bsan1pv6.fsf@cyberstein.org> 
References: <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org> <1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck> <20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org> <1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck> <20020604163208.A22644@zgp.org> <1023232074.1579.58.camel@deck> <m2zny9fce0.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020606174039.GO24561@zork.net> <m2u1og9szm.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6u3cvzr15x.fsf@zork.zork.net>
            <m2bsan1pv6.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <200206071224.g57COlSA002741@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>

On Fri, 07 Jun 2002 00:59:09 PDT, Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>  said:
> >>>>> "SN" == Sean Neakums <sneakums@zork.net> writes:
>     SN> With Objective C you can't put objects on the stack
> This has got to be the most idiotic thing you have said this week.

No, he's exceeded that, you just weren't listening at the time....


From smcmahon at eiv.com  Fri Jun  7 06:45:23 2002
From: smcmahon at eiv.com (Shawn McMahon)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Objective C stack objects
Message-ID: <20020607134523.GA7994@eiv.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Ok, clearly my Google-fu is inferior.

Short of purchasing a proprietary non-standard evil Stepstone product,
how can you have Objective C objects on the stack?


- -- 
Shawn McMahon                    | McMahon's Laws of Linux support:
http://www.eiv.com               | 1) There's more than one way to do it
AIM: spmcmahonfedex, smcmahoneiv | 2) Somebody thinks your way is wrong
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iEYEARECAAYFAj0AuPMACgkQEcl9bQ0RMt3fdgCgjbtlz4mG/nhjOz4Fc2Sbu60b
p9sAn0t42nZpJyxT9cUEczMH3i4NrN95
=H25b
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From sneakums at zork.net  Fri Jun  7 06:53:07 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Objective C stack objects
In-Reply-To: <20020607134523.GA7994@eiv.com> (Shawn McMahon's message of
 "Fri, 7 Jun 2002 09:45:23 -0400")
References: <20020607134523.GA7994@eiv.com>
Message-ID: <6u8z5rp54s.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Shawn McMahon quotation:

> Short of purchasing a proprietary non-standard evil Stepstone
> product, how can you have Objective C objects on the stack?

So Stepstone's is the only Objective C compiler that supports
stack-allocated objects?  Ha ha!  That'll teach me to assume that the
Stepstone FAQ applies to all Objective C implementations.

-- 
"Forfiku vin, trolo!"
	-- Mr. Bad


From mike at embody.org  Fri Jun  7 08:51:13 2002
From: mike at embody.org (mike dillon (Agent Orange Dick))
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] All hail!
In-Reply-To: <87elfj1emr.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <20020606155318.A666@zgp.org> <20020606230418.GT24561@zork.net> <20020607023552.GB12189@x-o.clustermonkey.org> <m2fzzz1wox.fsf@cyberstein.org> <87elfj1emr.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <20020607155113.GA22422@eber.embody.org>

begin  Last Judgement Samuel quotation:
>     * Flax seed has an insufficient amount of omega-3 fatty acids, and
>       you shouldn't bother sprinkling it over your Hippio's in the
>       morning.

GOT HEMP?

-md


From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu  Fri Jun  7 10:36:34 2002
From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian D. Hicks)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] All hail!
In-Reply-To: <87elfj1emr.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <20020606155318.A666@zgp.org> <20020606230418.GT24561@zork.net> <20020607023552.GB12189@x-o.clustermonkey.org> <m2fzzz1wox.fsf@cyberstein.org> <87elfj1emr.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <20020607173634.GL14322@8ball.wox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Pungenday, the 12nd of Confusion, 3168, Last Judgement Samuel wrote:
>     * There's no such thing as a chupacabra.

Then who's sucking all the goats then?  YOU?
- -- 
Brian Hicks <http://eight.dhs.org> <hick0142@umn.edu> <PGP:0xADDD1F16> 
	This message would self-destruct in 10 seconds, except I'm 
	   not that clever.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE9AO8gjLHcIq3dHxYRAlTBAKDWa54DqjgHfjnUtcNbAy6lK/Z6HgCgxiw3
ZWX3lWm6Ae1GuYoSc1frnXA=
=aipb
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From nick at zork.net  Fri Jun  7 10:52:38 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] New propaganda weapon against Red China
Message-ID: <20020607175238.GG24561@zork.net>

http://asia.reuters.com/printerfriendly.jhtml?StoryID=1060696
> The Beijing Evening News, which claims a circulation of 1.25
> million, translated portions of the Onion's tall tale word-for-word
> in the international news page of its June 3 edition.
> 
> The reprinted version of the May 29 article, which parodies Congress
> as a Major League Baseball squad, also copied the Onion's would-be
> blueprint for a new legislative home that resembles a ballpark. 

Original article:

	http://www.theonion.com/onion3820/congress_threatens.html

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From dmarti at zgp.org  Fri Jun  7 11:02:41 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] New propaganda weapon against Red China
In-Reply-To: <20020607175238.GG24561@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 10:52:38AM -0700
References: <20020607175238.GG24561@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020607110241.A18074@zgp.org>

begin Nick Moffitt quotation of Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 10:52:38AM -0700:

> Original article:
> 
> 	http://www.theonion.com/onion3820/congress_threatens.html

They could move to San Jose:
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/business/3411858.htm

Or Bonn:
http://www.nzz.ch/english/background/background1998/background9807/bg980725germany.html

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Fri Jun  7 11:58:45 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Objective C stack objects
In-Reply-To: <20020607134523.GA7994@eiv.com>
References: <20020607134523.GA7994@eiv.com>
Message-ID: <m2lm9qapay.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "SM" == Shawn McMahon <smcmahon@eiv.com> writes:

    SM> Ok, clearly my Google-fu is inferior.  Short of purchasing a
    SM> proprietary non-standard evil Stepstone product, how can you
    SM> have Objective C objects on the stack?

Didn't you just answer your own question??

Anyway, what's your point.  Okay, so Objective-C objects are allocated
in the heap.  I guess it would be nice to be able to create
stack-based objects, but one of the nice things about Objective C is
its simplicity.
 
You can mix C++ and Objective-C freely, so if you want one so badly,
just make a C++ one.

Jake

-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'



From nick at zork.net  Fri Jun  7 12:02:31 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Not only are they not giving refunds...
Message-ID: <20020607190231.GI24561@zork.net>

http://www.theregus.com/content/4/24811.html
> If a PC shipped with Windows preinstalled, can you remove the OS and
> install Linux instead? Well, no, according to Microsoft. A somewhat
> obscure Microsoft site aimed at helping schools deal with donated
> computers flatly states: "It is a legal requirement that
> pre-installed operating systems remain with a machine for the life
> of the machine." 

	Man, some people believe anything that's written on a
computer.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Fri Jun  7 12:04:15 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <6uit4vpjf3.fsf@zork.zork.net>
References: <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org>
	<1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck> <20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org>
	<1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck> <20020604163208.A22644@zgp.org>
	<1023232074.1579.58.camel@deck> <m2zny9fce0.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020606174039.GO24561@zork.net> <m2u1og9szm.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6u3cvzr15x.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2bsan1pv6.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6ur8jjpkrx.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m27klb1nz6.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6uit4vpjf3.fsf@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <m2hekeap1s.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "SN" == Sean Neakums <sneakums@zork.net> writes:

    >> Automatic destructors.  Gar.  What you are talking about is
    >> garbage-collection.

    SN> No, I'm not.

Well, it's closely related.  Objective-C doesn't have automatic
constructors either.  You are responsible for your own initialization
and cleaning up after yourself as well.  It's a good habit to get
into.

Jake

-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'



From smcmahon at eiv.com  Fri Jun  7 12:09:39 2002
From: smcmahon at eiv.com (Shawn McMahon)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Objective C stack objects
In-Reply-To: <m2lm9qapay.fsf@cyberstein.org>
References: <20020607134523.GA7994@eiv.com> <m2lm9qapay.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <20020607190939.GA8888@eiv.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

begin  Zachary Copley quotation:
> 
>     SM> Ok, clearly my Google-fu is inferior.  Short of purchasing a
>     SM> proprietary non-standard evil Stepstone product, how can you
>     SM> have Objective C objects on the stack?
> 
> Didn't you just answer your own question??

No, but you just answered one I hadn't yet voiced.


- -- 
Shawn McMahon                    | McMahon's Laws of Linux support:
http://www.eiv.com               | 1) There's more than one way to do it
AIM: spmcmahonfedex, smcmahoneiv | 2) Somebody thinks your way is wrong
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

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=RYJv
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From sneakums at zork.net  Fri Jun  7 12:18:20 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <m2hekeap1s.fsf@cyberstein.org> (Zachary Copley's message of
 "07 Jun 2002 12:04:15 -0700")
References: <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org>
	<1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck> <20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org>
	<1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck> <20020604163208.A22644@zgp.org>
	<1023232074.1579.58.camel@deck> <m2zny9fce0.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020606174039.GO24561@zork.net> <m2u1og9szm.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6u3cvzr15x.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2bsan1pv6.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6ur8jjpkrx.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m27klb1nz6.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6uit4vpjf3.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2hekeap1s.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <6uzny6oq2r.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Zachary Copley quotation:

>>>>>> "SN" == Sean Neakums <sneakums@zork.net> writes:
>
>     >> Automatic destructors.  Gar.  What you are talking about is
>     >> garbage-collection.
>
>     SN> No, I'm not.
>
> Well, it's closely related.  Objective-C doesn't have automatic
> constructors either.  You are responsible for your own
> initialization and cleaning up after yourself as well.  It's a good
> habit to get into.

C++ programmers are as responsible for initialisation and cleanup as
Objective C programmers are.  That's why they write constructors and
destructors.  They just don't have to explicitly add calls that are
always needed anyway.  Relying on the programmer to look after these
details is just asking for trouble.  Given the genesis of Objective C
as a language that was intended to make programming easier through
software re-use[0], it's surprising this detail was missed out.

[0] Software ICs, anyone?

-- 
"I don't care what you say.  I'm right and you're wrong."
	-- Eamon de Valera


From crackdonkey at donkeyshow.org  Fri Jun  7 12:25:06 2002
From: crackdonkey at donkeyshow.org (#2 of Berkeley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Objective C stack objects
In-Reply-To: <m2lm9qapay.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <Running.Gag.4.33.0206071224070.12268-100000@vax.hanford.org>

On 7 Jun 2002, Zachary Copley wrote:

> Anyway, what's your point.  Okay, so Objective-C objects are allocated
> in the heap.  I guess it would be nice to be able to create
> stack-based objects, but one of the nice things about Objective C is
> its simplicity.

Can you start drinking again, please?  Your arguments are a great deal
more convincing after you've been drinking.





From dmarti at zgp.org  Fri Jun  7 12:34:40 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Not only are they not giving refunds...
In-Reply-To: <20020607190231.GI24561@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 12:02:31PM -0700
References: <20020607190231.GI24561@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020607123440.A19352@zgp.org>

begin Nick Moffitt quotation of Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 12:02:31PM -0700:

> 	Man, some people believe anything that's written on a
> computer.

When does the school accept the EULA then?   What happens if
you donate an old computer to a school, and the computer has a
proprietary OS on it, but you've lost the EULA?

The scary thing is that every time people behave as if a EULA term
were enforceable, it becomes a little bit more enforceable.


We need a Know Your Rights Reference Card

when stopped by the police (walking, driving, riding a bike, on
public transit)

when buying and selling books and CDs

when buying and selling copies of software (which is right: the
"refund clause" or the "all software sales may be exchanged for
same title only" sign?)

in a store (can a store guard detain you and search your bag?)

on a jury (nullify that unjust law!)

signing an employment agreement (the "we own your brain" clause
is bogus)


-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From dmarti at zgp.org  Fri Jun  7 12:56:00 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Not only are they not giving refunds...
In-Reply-To: <20020607123440.A19352@zgp.org>; from dmarti@zgp.org on Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 12:34:40PM -0700
References: <20020607190231.GI24561@zork.net> <20020607123440.A19352@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <20020607125600.A19943@zgp.org>

begin Don Marti quotation of Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 12:34:40PM -0700:

> when stopped by the police (walking, driving, riding a bike, on
> public transit)

The ACLU has that one:
http://www.aclu.org/issues/criminal/bustcardtext.html

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Fri Jun  7 12:57:49 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Objective C stack objects
In-Reply-To: <Running.Gag.4.33.0206071224070.12268-100000@vax.hanford.org>
References: <m2lm9qapay.fsf@cyberstein.org> <Running.Gag.4.33.0206071224070.12268-100000@vax.hanford.org>
Message-ID: <20020607195749.GK24561@zork.net>

begin  #2 of Berkeley  quotation:
> On 7 Jun 2002, Zachary Copley wrote:
> > Anyway, what's your point.  Okay, so Objective-C objects are
> > allocated in the heap.  I guess it would be nice to be able to
> > create stack-based objects, but one of the nice things about
> > Objective C is its simplicity.
> 
> Can you start drinking again, please?  Your arguments are a great deal
> more convincing after you've been drinking.

	I know they're more convincing after *I*'ve been drinking.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Fri Jun  7 13:06:48 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Not only are they not giving refunds...
In-Reply-To: <20020607123440.A19352@zgp.org>
References: <20020607190231.GI24561@zork.net> <20020607123440.A19352@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <20020607200648.GL24561@zork.net>

begin  Don Marti Lives Three Hours from Nowhere  quotation:
> We need a Know Your Rights Reference Card

	We do indeed.  

	What we also need is a newsletter about these issues that we
can distribute around coffeehouses and such.  It should be aimed at
the arty bohemian types, with the reference card as a pull-out from
the centerfold.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Fri Jun  7 13:08:48 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <6uzny6oq2r.fsf@zork.zork.net>
References: <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org>
	<1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck> <20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org>
	<1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck> <20020604163208.A22644@zgp.org>
	<1023232074.1579.58.camel@deck> <m2zny9fce0.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020606174039.GO24561@zork.net> <m2u1og9szm.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6u3cvzr15x.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2bsan1pv6.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6ur8jjpkrx.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m27klb1nz6.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6uit4vpjf3.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2hekeap1s.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6uzny6oq2r.fsf@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <m2y9dq97hr.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "SN" == Sean Neakums <sneakums@zork.net> writes:

    SN> C++ programmers are as responsible for initialisation and
    SN> cleanup as Objective C programmers are.  That's why they write
    SN> constructors and destructors.  They just don't have to
    SN> explicitly add calls that are always needed anyway.

You're just lazy.

    SN> Relying on the programmer to look after these details is just
    SN> asking for trouble.  Given the genesis of Objective C as a
    SN> language that was intended to make programming easier through
    SN> software re-use[0], it's surprising this detail was missed
    SN> out.

Well hoo hoo hoo.  There are trade-offs in *every* language.  C++
looks like shit.  I'm surprised that they made it look like shit so
people have to vomit while reading source code -- considering that it
was designed to foster code reuse.

Jake

-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'



From snatcher at bearfountain.com  Fri Jun  7 13:10:08 2002
From: snatcher at bearfountain.com (Zachary Copley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Objective C stack objects
In-Reply-To: <Running.Gag.4.33.0206071224070.12268-100000@vax.hanford.org>
References: <Running.Gag.4.33.0206071224070.12268-100000@vax.hanford.org>
Message-ID: <m2u1oe97fj.fsf@cyberstein.org>

>>>>> "#oB" == #2 of Berkeley <crackdonkey@donkeyshow.org> writes:

    #oB> Can you start drinking again, please?  Your arguments are a
    #oB> great deal more convincing after you've been drinking.

No.

Jake

-- 

                 .^....^.  "I don't like the feel of
                 ! .\/. !  [the sun] on my skin."
                 (. oo .)            --Christopher Walken
                  `{""}'



From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Fri Jun  7 13:14:41 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <m2y9dq97hr.fsf@cyberstein.org>
References: <20020606174039.GO24561@zork.net> <m2u1og9szm.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6u3cvzr15x.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2bsan1pv6.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6ur8jjpkrx.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m27klb1nz6.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6uit4vpjf3.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2hekeap1s.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6uzny6oq2r.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2y9dq97hr.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <20020607201441.GM24561@zork.net>

begin  Zachary Copley  quotation:
> There are trade-offs in *every* language.  

	Except Esperanto, which is sweetness and light and all things
glorious.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From sneakums at zork.net  Fri Jun  7 13:16:36 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <m2y9dq97hr.fsf@cyberstein.org> (Zachary Copley's message of
 "07 Jun 2002 13:08:48 -0700")
References: <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <20020604113710.E27128@zgp.org>
	<1023216088.2138.20.camel@deck> <20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org>
	<1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck> <20020604163208.A22644@zgp.org>
	<1023232074.1579.58.camel@deck> <m2zny9fce0.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020606174039.GO24561@zork.net> <m2u1og9szm.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6u3cvzr15x.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2bsan1pv6.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6ur8jjpkrx.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m27klb1nz6.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6uit4vpjf3.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2hekeap1s.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6uzny6oq2r.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2y9dq97hr.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <6uu1oeondn.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Zachary Copley quotation:

>     SN> Relying on the programmer to look after these details is just
>     SN> asking for trouble.  Given the genesis of Objective C as a
>     SN> language that was intended to make programming easier through
>     SN> software re-use[0], it's surprising this detail was missed
>     SN> out.
>
> Well hoo hoo hoo.  There are trade-offs in *every* language.  C++
> looks like shit.  I'm surprised that they made it look like shit so
> people have to vomit while reading source code -- considering that
> it was designed to foster code reuse.

Hey!  You took my words and turned them to your own sick ends!  You
should be writing for one of those edgy online journals or something!

-- 
"It saddens me to see the nation I helped create whore
 itself out to manufacturers of proprietary software."
	-- Eamon de Valera


From sneakums at zork.net  Fri Jun  7 13:19:49 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020607201441.GM24561@zork.net> (Monkey Master and Prince
 Regent of San Francisco's message of "Fri, 7 Jun 2002 13:14:41 -0700")
References: <20020606174039.GO24561@zork.net> <m2u1og9szm.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6u3cvzr15x.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2bsan1pv6.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6ur8jjpkrx.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m27klb1nz6.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6uit4vpjf3.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2hekeap1s.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<6uzny6oq2r.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2y9dq97hr.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020607201441.GM24561@zork.net>
Message-ID: <6uptz2on8a.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco quotation:

> begin  Zachary Copley  quotation:
>> There are trade-offs in *every* language.  
>
> 	Except Esperanto, which is sweetness and light and all things
> glorious.

No, that's Lojban.  Esperanto is the linguistic equivalent of
splatter painting.

-- 
"Linux is merely a complex GCC test-case, not a serious attempt at a kernel."
	-- Eamon de Valera


From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu  Fri Jun  7 13:25:07 2002
From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification] 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jun 2002 13:14:41 PDT."
             <20020607201441.GM24561@zork.net> 
References: <20020606174039.GO24561@zork.net> <m2u1og9szm.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6u3cvzr15x.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2bsan1pv6.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6ur8jjpkrx.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m27klb1nz6.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6uit4vpjf3.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2hekeap1s.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6uzny6oq2r.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2y9dq97hr.fsf@cyberstein.org>
            <20020607201441.GM24561@zork.net>
Message-ID: <200206072025.g57KP7SA009064@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>

On Fri, 07 Jun 2002 13:14:41 PDT, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco <monkeymaster@crackmonkey.org>  said:
> begin  Zachary Copley  quotation:
> > There are trade-offs in *every* language.  
> 	Except Esperanto, which is sweetness and light and all things
> glorious.

PBS long ago learned the trade-off between quality programming and viewership.


From dmarti at zgp.org  Fri Jun  7 13:33:36 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Not only are they not giving refunds...
In-Reply-To: <20020607200648.GL24561@zork.net>; from monkeymaster@crackmonkey.org on Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 01:06:48PM -0700
References: <20020607190231.GI24561@zork.net> <20020607123440.A19352@zgp.org> <20020607200648.GL24561@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020607133336.A20514@zgp.org>

begin Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco quotation of Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 01:06:48PM -0700:

> 	What we also need is a newsletter about these issues that we
> can distribute around coffeehouses and such.  It should be aimed at
> the arty bohemian types, with the reference card as a pull-out from
> the centerfold.

Let's all get night jobs at copy shops!!!!

And eliminate all unjust laws through Jury Nullification by Bohemians!

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Fri Jun  7 13:43:33 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Not only are they not giving refunds...
In-Reply-To: <20020607133336.A20514@zgp.org>
References: <20020607190231.GI24561@zork.net> <20020607123440.A19352@zgp.org> <20020607200648.GL24561@zork.net> <20020607133336.A20514@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <20020607204333.GN24561@zork.net>

begin  Don Marti Lives Three Hours from Nowhere  quotation:
> Let's all get night jobs at copy shops!!!!

	Okay.  How about the Kinko's on 2nd and Harrison?

> And eliminate all unjust laws through Jury Nullification by Bohemians!

	No way, man.  Just spread the memes that "you buy it, you own
it" and so forth through the tech press set!  Get the musicians
whining about how all this copy-garbling tech prices decent music
making rigs out of their each!  

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From nick at zork.net  Fri Jun  7 13:53:06 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Star Track Crowley
Message-ID: <20020607205306.GO24561@zork.net>

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&safe=off&th=38df51bd82a3dd07
> - Crowley makes references to 'the dwarf insane yet crafty' who is
>   the source of true Wisdom, obviously a reference to Yoda.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From dep at linuxandmain.com  Fri Jun  7 13:51:44 2002
From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Not only are they not giving refunds...
In-Reply-To: <20020607123440.A19352@zgp.org>
References: <20020607190231.GI24561@zork.net> <20020607123440.A19352@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <200206071651.44014.dep@linuxandmain.com>

begin  Don Marti's  quote:

| We need a Know Your Rights Reference Card

though it's a hell of a lot more fun to rename a few files on win 
machines at staples and office depot. alternatively, password 
protecting the screensaver with as many random characters as it will 
take after having set it to a crawl of "windows sucks," "microsoft 
eats human babies," and the like is also effective.

as a point of law, there is absolutely no way on god's green earth 
that msft or anyone else can force you to keep software on your 
machine, any more than ford can force you to keep that miserable 
little 2-barrel carb on your 68 mustang.

this is an unquestionable slam-dunk on second-hand computers, because 
of a little something called privity. you cannot be held to an 
agreement to which you are not a party.

the remedy available -- the only remedy available -- in eulas that are 
ignored in ways other than pirating the software, is *deletion.* 
which is what they're trying to prevent. anything else would itself 
be a privity issue, because you do not have the opportunity to deal 
with the eula before you have rendered your consideration, which is 
to say before you've paid for the goddammed thing.

the minute that msft actually tries to take someone to court to 
enforce a non-deletion clause, the lawyers will be lined up round the 
block to take the case pro bono. msft knows this. it's another case 
of gates bending over and tooting farts out his ass and saying, 
"look! i'm a tugboat!"
-- 
dep

http://www.linuxandmain.com -- outside the box, barely within the 
envelope, and no animated paperclip anywhere.


From kra at monkey.org  Fri Jun  7 15:19:40 2002
From: kra at monkey.org (Karl Anderson)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Not only are they not giving refunds...
In-Reply-To: Don Marti's message of "Fri, 7 Jun 2002 13:33:36 -0700"
References: <20020607190231.GI24561@zork.net> <20020607123440.A19352@zgp.org> <20020607200648.GL24561@zork.net> <20020607133336.A20514@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <m3ofem4tqb.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

Don Marti <dmarti@zgp.org> writes:

> Let's all get night jobs at copy shops!!!!

Let's be cooler than that and pirate copies from Kinkos!  Resetting
a copier cardkey isn't against the DMCA, is it?  It isn't
circumventing a copy-protection device.

-- 
Karl Anderson      kra@monkey.org           http://www.monkey.org/~kra/


From dmarti at zgp.org  Fri Jun  7 16:47:11 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Not only are they not giving refunds...
In-Reply-To: <m3ofem4tqb.fsf@localhost.localdomain>; from kra@monkey.org on Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 03:19:40PM -0700
References: <20020607190231.GI24561@zork.net> <20020607123440.A19352@zgp.org> <20020607200648.GL24561@zork.net> <20020607133336.A20514@zgp.org> <m3ofem4tqb.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20020607164711.A22198@zgp.org>

begin Karl Anderson quotation of Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 03:19:40PM -0700:

> Let's be cooler than that and pirate copies from Kinkos!  Resetting
> a copier cardkey isn't against the DMCA, is it?  It isn't
> circumventing a copy-protection device.

All the cool stuff is staff-only.  If you just need regular copies
you might as well sweet-talk somebody into letting you visit them
at work.

http://chickmagnet.org/your_employers_copier/

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Fri Jun  7 16:55:50 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Not only are they not giving refunds...
In-Reply-To: <20020607164711.A22198@zgp.org>
References: <20020607190231.GI24561@zork.net> <20020607123440.A19352@zgp.org> <20020607200648.GL24561@zork.net> <20020607133336.A20514@zgp.org> <m3ofem4tqb.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <20020607164711.A22198@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <20020607235550.GP24561@zork.net>

begin  Don Marti Lives Three Hours from Nowhere  quotation:
> http://chickmagnet.org/your_employers_copier/

	Wow.  You still own that domain?

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From dmarti at zgp.org  Fri Jun  7 16:58:39 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Not only are they not giving refunds...
In-Reply-To: <20020607235550.GP24561@zork.net>; from monkeymaster@crackmonkey.org on Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 04:55:50PM -0700
References: <20020607190231.GI24561@zork.net> <20020607123440.A19352@zgp.org> <20020607200648.GL24561@zork.net> <20020607133336.A20514@zgp.org> <m3ofem4tqb.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <20020607164711.A22198@zgp.org> <20020607235550.GP24561@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020607165839.A23634@zgp.org>

begin Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco quotation of Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 04:55:50PM -0700:

> 	Wow.  You still own that domain?

Yeah, tried to sell it on Ebay but didn't meet the reserve.

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From nick at zork.net  Fri Jun  7 17:34:30 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] answer: WELL DUH
Message-ID: <20020608003430.GS24561@zork.net>

http://robots.cnn.com/2002/LAW/06/columns/fl.dean.powers.0607/index.html

As if this weren't the origin of Kings in the first place!

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From dmarti at zgp.org  Fri Jun  7 19:34:46 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] SVLUG Promotes Strange and Dangerous Science
Message-ID: <20020607193446.A24955@zgp.org>

"The speaker at SVLUG talked about his work at NASA on atmospheric
physics data acquisition systems, and now on data acquisition using
EEGs and EMGs (electroencephalograms and electromyograms). Although
he seemed to lack confidence in himself, he was very clear, and
kept my interest the whole time. In fact, I was so curious about
electromyography that I spent a long time the following evening
sticking voltmeter probes into my hand in the hope of measuring a
repeatable millivolt change."

http://vitanuova.loyalty.org/2002-06-06.html

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From dep at linuxandmain.com  Fri Jun  7 20:30:46 2002
From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] hmmm.
Message-ID: <200206072330.46886.dep@linuxandmain.com>

http://home.camelot.de/danielt/whatswrong.html
-- 
dep

http://www.linuxandmain.com -- outside the box, barely within the 
envelope, and no animated paperclip anywhere.


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Fri Jun  7 23:03:42 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] hmmm.
In-Reply-To: <200206072330.46886.dep@linuxandmain.com>
References: <200206072330.46886.dep@linuxandmain.com>
Message-ID: <20020608060342.GT24561@zork.net>

begin  dep  quotation:
> http://home.camelot.de/danielt/whatswrong.html

	I think I figured it out.

	The hole on the right side of the puzzle piece doesn't fit the
tab from the top.

	Am I right?

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From schoen at loyalty.org  Fri Jun  7 23:06:47 2002
From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] SVLUG Promotes Strange and Dangerous Science
In-Reply-To: <20020607193446.A24955@zgp.org>
References: <20020607193446.A24955@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <20020608060647.GA25423@zork.net>

Don Marti writes:

> "The speaker at SVLUG talked about his work at NASA on atmospheric
> physics data acquisition systems, and now on data acquisition using
> EEGs and EMGs (electroencephalograms and electromyograms). Although
> he seemed to lack confidence in himself, he was very clear, and
> kept my interest the whole time. In fact, I was so curious about
> electromyography that I spent a long time the following evening
> sticking voltmeter probes into my hand in the hope of measuring a
> repeatable millivolt change."
> 
> http://vitanuova.loyalty.org/2002-06-06.html

However, I seem to be uninjured.  The probes are sharp, but I didn't
break the skin.

So, I have a voltmeter which goes down to millivolts, and I thought I
might be able to see something if I made a good contact (for example,
using pads of tissue paper soaked in salt water).  But right now I
think everything I thought I saw was just my imagination.

-- 
Seth David Schoen <schoen@loyalty.org> | Reading is a right, not a feature!
     http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/   |                 -- Kathryn Myronuk
     http://vitanuova.loyalty.org/     |


From jim at musenki.com  Fri Jun  7 23:24:31 2002
From: jim at musenki.com (Jim Thompson)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] How many former COBOL programmers does it take to write an XML
 interoperability specification?
Message-ID: <15617.41759.655795.51548@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/53/25634.html

   Imagine a Death Star sized concentration of Java whose density was
   such that space, time and sanity crumbled in its very
   presence. Swarming teams of engineers working around the clock
   without dissent lest the dark Lord himself freeze them with his
   steely Voice Mail Of Death.
...

-- 
"Perl is basically TECO-99."  ---Barry Shein



From dep at linuxandmain.com  Sat Jun  8 06:32:45 2002
From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] and we worry about things like software licenses
Message-ID: <200206080932.45709.dep@linuxandmain.com>

http://www.jailbabes.com/letters.db?af=0&at=0

"You are doing the right thing by selecting one or more incarcerated 
women to communicate with through written correspondence. Even though 
these ladies are in prison, it doesn't mean that they are bad women. 
The majority of these ladies are fun, loving, clever, reliable, sexy, 
loyal, devoted and very passionate. Some of them are also very highly 
educated. They enjoy sports, music, arts and bond well in a family 
environment."
-- 
dep

http://www.linuxandmain.com -- outside the box, barely within the 
envelope, and no animated paperclip anywhere.


From junasts at subdimension.com  Sat Jun  8 07:50:12 2002
From: junasts at subdimension.com (Last Judgement Samuel)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:16 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] and we worry about things like software
 licenses
In-Reply-To: <200206080932.45709.dep@linuxandmain.com> (dep's message of
 "Sat, 8 Jun 2002 09:32:45 -0400")
References: <200206080932.45709.dep@linuxandmain.com>
Message-ID: <873cvxg6zf.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

>>>>> "d" == dep  <dep@linuxandmain.com> writes:

    d> "[...] Even though these ladies are in prison, it doesn't mean that
    d> they are bad women."

"We mean, uh, they're not NECESSARILY bad women. Like, they could have
been framed for a crime they didn't commit, like in an exciting
adventure movie! Or they were driven to petty property crimes by the
System! Or maybe they killed to protect their child, like Lindsey
Wagner in a Lifetime special! Or it could be that they were jailed
under unjust laws, and their juries were not fully informed. So
there's a CHANCE that they're not bad people, in some definition of
badness.

"And, hey, who doesn't like Bad Girls, anyways? Gum-snapping,
wise-crackin', hipshot ladies with attitude? Tough girls who've seen
it all, and put on a brave front, yet still have a heart of gold."

                                      -- Last Judgement Samuel

-- 
+++ Last Judgement Samuel + junasts@subdimension.com + 0x8D3E92DE +++


From dmarti at zgp.org  Sat Jun  8 11:08:45 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] SVLUG Promotes Strange and Dangerous Science
In-Reply-To: <20020608060647.GA25423@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 11:06:47PM -0700
References: <20020607193446.A24955@zgp.org> <20020608060647.GA25423@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020608110845.A32423@zgp.org>

begin Seth David Schoen quotation of Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 11:06:47PM -0700:

> So, I have a voltmeter which goes down to millivolts, and I thought I
> might be able to see something if I made a good contact (for example,
> using pads of tissue paper soaked in salt water).  But right now I
> think everything I thought I saw was just my imagination.

HSC has a nice DMM with a serial port and non-NDA programming
documentation.  I just got one but haven't hooked it up to the
computer yet.  

You might be able to use fish hooks with the barb ground off to
make a better connection, and try a bigger muscle (the gastrocnemius
is handy.)  Note: clean the hooks and your skin first with soap and
water, then with tincture of iodine, before hooking up.  Do not use
lead solder for any device you insert into your body.  For a less
painful scientific experience, sharpen apparatus with a water stone
(available from any hardware store)

For purposes of Prior Art I hereby disclose my Invention of the
replacement for the computer mouse: gluteo-pointer EMG electro-pants.
Our product roadmap for Q2 2003 includes two (male) or three (female)
buttons activated through advanced Kegel exercises; the physical
fitness benefits should be obvious to anyone of ordinary skill in
the Art.

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Sat Jun  8 11:29:44 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] and we worry about things like software licenses
In-Reply-To: <873cvxg6zf.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <200206080932.45709.dep@linuxandmain.com> <873cvxg6zf.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <20020608182944.GA5541@zork.net>

begin  Last Judgement Samuel  quotation:
> >>>>> "d" == dep  <dep@linuxandmain.com> writes:
> 
>     d> "[...] Even though these ladies are in prison, it doesn't mean that
>     d> they are bad women."
> 
> "We mean, uh, they're not NECESSARILY bad women. Like, they could have
> been framed for a crime they didn't commit, like in an exciting
> adventure movie! 

	"These women are the cleanest human beings on Earth, since (as
many of you may know from Women In Prison movies) they spend nearly
all of their time in the shower."

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From nick at zork.net  Sat Jun  8 11:40:09 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [jdub@perkypants.org: GARNOME 0.10.5: "42 Days, 42 Nights"]
Message-ID: <20020608184009.GB5541@zork.net>

rawk!

----- Forwarded message from Jeff Waugh <jdub@perkypants.org> -----

GARNOME 0.10.5: "42 Days, 42 Nights"
====================================

GARNOME 0.10.5 - the bad-ass, bleeding edge GNOME distribution for testers
and tweakers everywhere - is ready for more tire-kicking and bug-bashing. If
you're dying to try the GNOME 2.0 Desktop, but don't want to fall into the
depraved addictions and co-dependencies of testing from anonymous CVS, then
GARNOME is for you.


Random
------

RAAAWK! So close to release it hurts. Next week is release candidate time,
and our release critical bugs are being jumped on left, right and centre.
Not many new treats in this release, but plenty of updates to the major
desktop components and platform libraries. Noice.

I recommend building afresh prefix, otherwise much arse will be left over
from your previous builds. It's always good to clear that out before trying
updated GARNOME releases.


What's New?
-----------

  - Update to latest weekly snapshot.
  
  - New: gthumb, by Paolo Bacchilega, now ported to the GNOME 2 platform!
    Very spiffy.
    
  - New: gnome-hacker-tools meta garball, currently just for Glade, but
    there'll be more there soon.
    
  - Updated: KDE 3.0.1 (KDE 3.0 was the surprise in the previous release,
    for those who don't look at their directory listings close enough). Try
    it out!
    
  - Fixed: Added some bits to gar.lib.mk for future use.


Where do I get it?
------------------

The tarball and documentation are available on the GARNOME website:

  http://www.gnome.org/~jdub/garnome/


Happy Testing!

- Jeff

-- 
   "The Motif interface, with chunkier controls, felt more like a ghetto    
                           blaster." - Liam Quin                            
-- 
garnome-list mailing list
garnome-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/garnome-list

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From jdub at perkypants.org  Sat Jun  8 11:48:45 2002
From: jdub at perkypants.org (Jeff Waugh)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [Lnx-bbc-devel] [jdub@perkypants.org: GARNOME 0.10.5: "42 Days, 42 Nights"]
In-Reply-To: <20020608184009.GB5541@zork.net>
References: <20020608184009.GB5541@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020608184845.GO5177@perkypants.org>

<quote who="Nick Moffitt">

> rawk!

I promise I'll fold in the upstream GAR stuff after 2.0.0 comes out. :-)

- Jeff

-- 
    "From my observation, when it comes to porting Linux to a particular    
           device, a point doesn't appear to be necessary." - mpt           


From dmarti at zgp.org  Sat Jun  8 11:56:11 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [jdub@perkypants.org: GARNOME 0.10.5: "42 Days, 42 Nights"]
In-Reply-To: <20020608184009.GB5541@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 11:40:09AM -0700
References: <20020608184009.GB5541@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020608115611.B32423@zgp.org>

begin Nick Moffitt quotation of Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 11:40:09AM -0700:

> ----- Forwarded message from Jeff Waugh <jdub@perkypants.org> -----

...

> I recommend building afresh prefix, otherwise much arse will be left over
> from your previous builds.

CONFIGURE_ARGS = --with-much-arse

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From sneakums at zork.net  Sat Jun  8 12:01:58 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [jdub@perkypants.org: GARNOME 0.10.5: "42 Days,
 42 Nights"]
In-Reply-To: <20020608115611.B32423@zgp.org> (Don Marti's message of "Sat, 8
 Jun 2002 11:56:11 -0700")
References: <20020608184009.GB5541@zork.net> <20020608115611.B32423@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <6ubsaloaqh.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Don Marti quotation:

> begin Nick Moffitt quotation of Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 11:40:09AM -0700:
>> ----- Forwarded message from Jeff Waugh <jdub@perkypants.org> -----
>> I recommend building afresh prefix, otherwise much arse will be left over
>> from your previous builds.
>
> CONFIGURE_ARGS = --with-much-arse

$ grep ARSE configure.in
AC_CHECK_ARSE([left hand],[right hand],
$

-- 
"A cavalry would be a waste of time.  Guys on bikes, that's the ticket!"
	-- Eamon de Valera


From 0272456089 at djuice.co.nz  Sat Jun  8 18:43:57 2002
From: 0272456089 at djuice.co.nz (0272456089)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Chinese OS
Message-ID: <3CF4B493@mail.djuice.co.nz>

begin  Does anyone here have any info about the new Chinese Virtual Machine Operating System.



From carlos at laviola.org  Sat Jun  8 19:00:26 2002
From: carlos at laviola.org (Carlos Laviola)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Chinese OS
In-Reply-To: <3CF4B493@mail.djuice.co.nz>
References: <3CF4B493@mail.djuice.co.nz>
Message-ID: <20020609020026.GB727@laviola.org>

On Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 01:43:57PM +1200, 0272456089 wrote:
> begin  Does anyone here have any info about the new Chinese Virtual
> Machine Operating System.

What the?

-- 
 _ _  _| _  _  | _   . _ | _   icq -> bad -|- jabber -> good
(_(_|| |(_)_)  |(_|\/|(_)|(_|  Support Scientology! http://xenu.net


From ron at vnetworx.net  Sat Jun  8 19:49:45 2002
From: ron at vnetworx.net (Subjugator of Pt. Jeff & Conqueror  of Long Island)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Chinese OS
In-Reply-To: <20020609020026.GB727@laviola.org>
References: <3CF4B493@mail.djuice.co.nz>  <20020609020026.GB727@laviola.org>
Message-ID: <1023590986.22153.226592.camel@amory>

On Sat, 2002-06-08 at 22:00, Carlos Laviola wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 01:43:57PM +1200, 0272456089 wrote:
> > begin  Does anyone here have any info about the new Chinese Virtual
> > Machine Operating System.

No, but I guess the Chinese though that would be revenge for the dumping
of toxic PC refuse on their shores.

-- 
Bad ideas for everyone. See: http://sun.com & http://microsoft.com



From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu  Sat Jun  8 22:01:57 2002
From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Chinese OS 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 09 Jun 2002 13:43:57 +1200."
             <3CF4B493@mail.djuice.co.nz> 
References: <3CF4B493@mail.djuice.co.nz>
Message-ID: <200206090501.g5951wSI009982@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>

On Sun, 09 Jun 2002 13:43:57 +1200, 0272456089 <0272456089@djuice.co.nz>  said:
> begin  Does anyone here have any info about the new Chinese Virtual Machine Operating System.

Damn.. now we're getting trolled by refugees from AI labs.  Quick, somebody
grab a mallet and pound an AI Koan through its boot disk...


From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu  Sat Jun  8 23:33:49 2002
From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian D. Hicks)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Chinese OS
In-Reply-To: <200206090501.g5951wSI009982@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
References: <3CF4B493@mail.djuice.co.nz> <200206090501.g5951wSI009982@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <20020609063349.GN14322@8ball.wox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Setting Orange, the 14th of Confusion, 3168, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Jun 2002 13:43:57 +1200, 0272456089 <0272456089@djuice.co.nz>  said:
> > begin  Does anyone here have any info about the new Chinese Virtual Machine Operating System.
> 
> Damn.. now we're getting trolled by refugees from AI labs.  Quick, somebody
> grab a mallet and pound an AI Koan through its boot disk...

Please note the following:

http://crackmonkey.org/pipermail/crackmonkey/2002q2/029629.html

- -- 
Brian Hicks <http://eight.dhs.org> <hick0142@umn.edu> <PGP:0xADDD1F16> 
	This message would self-destruct in 10 seconds, except I'm 
	   not that clever.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE9AvbMjLHcIq3dHxYRAu14AKCL5w/8xPY7cRHWCOvlW/BLvxzEJgCglC6/
LjoP5pWSjftspbGJ51IM+70=
=jvmP
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From carton at Ivy.NET  Fri Jun  7 09:22:20 2002
From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:	[!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe	notification]
In-Reply-To: <1023344006.1613.23.camel@deck>
 (Joakim Ziegler's message of "06 Jun 2002 01:13:23 -0500")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
 <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
 <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
 <m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck>
 <m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck>
 <m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023334124.1608.11.camel@deck>
 <m2d6v5f0ku.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023344006.1613.23.camel@deck>
Message-ID: <oqbsanqcsj.fsf@balthasar.nat>

>>>>> "jz" == Joakim Ziegler <joakim@avmaria.com> writes:

    jz> This is not the good sort of evil. This is the soul-twisting,
    jz> mind-bending sort of evil.

In your opinion, is the Evil more like Julia Stiles evil or Hilary
Duff evil?

Alice loves you!

-- 
Un altro mondo ? possibile


From carton at Ivy.NET  Fri Jun  7 09:36:49 2002
From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <m2it4xz2mi.fsf@cyberstein.org>
 (Zachary Copley's message of "05 Jun 2002 17:12:37 -0700")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
 <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
 <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6uit4ztmq6.fsf@zork.zork.net>
 <m24rgihmtc.fsf@cyberstein.org> <oqbsaqwkqb.fsf@balthasar.nat>
 <m2it4xz2mi.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <oq4rgfqc4e.fsf@balthasar.nat>

>>>>> "zc" == Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com> writes:

    zc> Darwin is a good compromise between a microkernel and a
    zc> monolithic kernel.

No itsnot.  It's slow as geriatric fuck, you brainwashed zealot.  The
PUBLICATION RECORD speaks for itself.

    zc> Exactly how much crack do I have to smoke??!

<cough>, uh, I recant---you may post.  I didn't realize who I was
dealing with.

-- 
NetBSD: The choice of hundreds worldwide
		-- Tom Harvey


From carton at Ivy.NET  Fri Jun  7 09:24:17 2002
From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <lzadq896c4.fsf@unity.copyleft.no>
 (poop@crapmonkey.org's message of "Thu, 06 Jun 2002 10:09:15 +0200")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
 <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
 <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck>
 <m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck>
 <m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck>
 <m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023334124.1608.11.camel@deck>
 <m2d6v5f0ku.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023344006.1613.23.camel@deck>
 <lzadq896c4.fsf@unity.copyleft.no>
Message-ID: <oq8z5rqcpa.fsf@balthasar.nat>

>>>>> "p" == poop  <poop@crapmonkey.org> writes:

     p> Because [Norway] have oil, not because we're so fucking clever.

No.  Because you have VAST POTASH RESERVES!

-- 
Klar, Entlueftung, Zuendung, Vorstufe, Hauptstufe.


From carton at Ivy.NET  Fri Jun  7 09:46:37 2002
From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <15615.8549.801825.817513@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
 (Jim Thompson's message of "Thu, 6 Jun 2002 03:46:29 -0500")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
 <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
 <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6uit4ztmq6.fsf@zork.zork.net>
 <m24rgihmtc.fsf@cyberstein.org> <oqbsaqwkqb.fsf@balthasar.nat>
 <m2it4xz2mi.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6uadq8svsu.fsf@zork.zork.net>
 <15615.8549.801825.817513@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <oq1ybjqbo2.fsf@balthasar.nat>

>>>>> "jt" == Jim Thompson <jim@musenki.com> writes:

 sneak> L4Linux is a Linux super-server running on L4.

    jt> how is this different that (the monolithic) linux?

It adds useless runtime overhead to every system call, creates
significant new portability obstacles that ensure employment for
microkernel zealots porting L4 to all the popular embedded CPUs, and
introduces quirky CPU-dependent performance interactions that
constrain the design of performant CPUs in gratuitous and arbitrary
ways (creating more jobs for microkernel zealots in CPU design).

In short, designing a good L4 system is about as hard as designing a
Lisp Machine, except that when it's all done you don't actually get
the Lisp Machine---instead you have an ordinarily ugly C machine based
on ``message passing'' and (void *) FORTRAN-common-block-style shared
memory.

Microkernel research is NOT dead.  ho, no.  It's still kicking and
screaming as much as ever.

-- 
Le fascisme est la dictature ouverte de la bourgeoisie.
		-- Georg Dimitrov


From sneakums at zork.net  Sun Jun  9 09:30:28 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re:
 [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <oq1ybjqbo2.fsf@balthasar.nat> (Miles Nordin's message of "07
 Jun 2002 12:46:37 -0400")
References: <m2ptz78v1c.fsf@cyberstein.org>
	<20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6uit4ztmq6.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<m24rgihmtc.fsf@cyberstein.org> <oqbsaqwkqb.fsf@balthasar.nat>
	<m2it4xz2mi.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6uadq8svsu.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<15615.8549.801825.817513@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<oq1ybjqbo2.fsf@balthasar.nat>
Message-ID: <6uelfg5s9n.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Miles Nordin quotation:

>>>>>> "jt" == Jim Thompson <jim@musenki.com> writes:
>
>  sneak> L4Linux is a Linux super-server running on L4.
>
>     jt> how is this different that (the monolithic) linux?
[snip more formulaic Nordin]

Never pass up an opportunity for a whinge, eh?  Jim's "how is this
different" comment was addressed at this remark of mine you snipped:

> It's kinda useless, really, good only for wank value.

I guess your Linux Journal fix has worn off already.

-- 
"I like vending machines because snacks are better when they fall.
 If I buy a candy bar in a convenience store, sometimes I'll drop it
 to activate its full flavor."
	-- Mitch Hedberg


From nick at zork.net  Sun Jun  9 11:08:07 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification]
Message-ID: <20020609180807.GB3275@zork.net>

Get me your supervisor, NOW.

----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net -----

helpdesk@fuck-everything.org has been successfully subscribed to
CrackMonkey.



----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From rick at linuxmafia.com  Sun Jun  9 11:22:08 2002
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <oq1ybjqbo2.fsf@balthasar.nat>
References: <20020604055859.GB14322@8ball.wox.org> <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6uit4ztmq6.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m24rgihmtc.fsf@cyberstein.org> <oqbsaqwkqb.fsf@balthasar.nat> <m2it4xz2mi.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6uadq8svsu.fsf@zork.zork.net> <15615.8549.801825.817513@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <oq1ybjqbo2.fsf@balthasar.nat>
Message-ID: <20020609182208.GA20206@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Miles Nordin (carton@Ivy.NET):

> Microkernel research is NOT dead.  ho, no.

It's just _always_ smelled that way.

-- 
Cheers,      "On the face of it, Microsoft complaining about the source license 
Rick Moen    used by Linux is like the event horizon calling the kettle black."
rick@linuxmafia.com             -- Adam Barr, former Microsoft Corp. programmer


From nick at zork.net  Sun Jun  9 11:26:28 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [alina365@hotmail.com: *****SPAM***** http://burnallgifs.org/]
Message-ID: <20020609182628.GE3275@zork.net>

ha ha ha.

----- Forwarded message from alina libova <alina365@hotmail.com> -----

SPAM: -------------------- Start SpamAssassin results ----------------------
SPAM: This mail is probably spam.  The original message has been altered
SPAM: so you can recognise or block similar unwanted mail in future.
SPAM: See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
SPAM: 
SPAM: Content analysis details:   (4.3 hits, 4 required)
SPAM: Hit! (1.0 point)   From: ends in numbers
SPAM: Hit! (1.5 points)  BODY: Asks you to click below
SPAM: Hit! (1.8 points)  BODY: Tells you to click on a URL
SPAM: 
SPAM: -------------------- End of SpamAssassin results ---------------------

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>WTF IS UP WITH YOU?!?!?! Are&nbsp;you jealous that unysis is a big company? Well if&nbsp;you would get off&nbsp;your lazy asses and make a company maybe u'd be rich! but no.... instead you round up a group of GEEKS (i saw that pic and its just scary) and make a stupid site about it! Well stop wasting&nbsp;your time make a company (and get a facelift)!&nbsp;There's NOTHING wrong with .gifs!</DIV>
<DIV>-me</DIV>
<DIV>btw. i don't work for Unysis</DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://g.msn.com/1HM505401/46'>Click Here</a><br></html>

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From junasts at subdimension.com  Sun Jun  9 07:20:12 2002
From: junasts at subdimension.com (Last Judgement Samuel)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Chinese OS
In-Reply-To: <200206090501.g5951wSI009982@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> (Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu's
 message of "Sun, 09 Jun 2002 01:01:57 -0400")
References: <3CF4B493@mail.djuice.co.nz>
	<200206090501.g5951wSI009982@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <871ybg7163.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

>>>>> "VK" == Valdis Kletnieks <Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu> writes:

    >> begin Does anyone here have any info about the new Chinese
    >> Virtual Machine Operating System.

I hear it's rated "Arrrrrh."

Oh, wait, wrong joke.

    VK> Damn.. now we're getting trolled by refugees from AI labs.

ha ha Chinese Box.

ha ha Valdis Kletnieks.

                                        -- Last Judgement Samuel

-- 
+++ Last Judgement Samuel + junasts@subdimension.com + 0x8D3E92DE +++


From sneakums at zork.net  Sun Jun  9 12:07:37 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] A five-star hotel, ON THE NET!
Message-ID: <6u1ybg5kzq.fsf@zork.zork.net>

http://www.habbohotel.com/ <-- emad

Rooms by the hour!

-- 
"Ah, the SCSL.  The 'All your changes are belong to Sun' license".
	-- Eamon de Valera


From 0272456089 at djuice.co.nz  Sun Jun  9 13:07:07 2002
From: 0272456089 at djuice.co.nz (0272456089)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Criminally insane? I don't think so!
Message-ID: <3CF4C10A@mail.djuice.co.nz>

begin  criminally inane would be closer to the mark. Apparently the Chinese VMOS is usually called the yellow pages. Sometimes it's open, sometimes proprietary. They paved paradise and they put up a parking lot. You'd be astounded if you knew who I was.



From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Sun Jun  9 13:16:32 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: *****SPAM***** [!CrackMonkey!] Criminally insane? I don't think so!
In-Reply-To: <3CF4C10A@mail.djuice.co.nz>
References: <3CF4C10A@mail.djuice.co.nz>
Message-ID: <20020609201632.GG3275@zork.net>

begin  0272456089  quotation:
> SPAM: -------------------- Start SpamAssassin results ----------------------
> SPAM: This mail is probably spam.  The original message has been altered
> SPAM: so you can recognise or block similar unwanted mail in future.
> SPAM: See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
> SPAM: 
> SPAM: Content analysis details:   (4 hits, 4 required)
> SPAM: Hit! (1.3 points)  From: starts with nums
> SPAM: Hit! (1.0 point)   From: ends in numbers
> SPAM: Hit! (1.0 point)   Subject: contains a question mark
> SPAM: Hit! (0.6 points)  To: repeats local-part as real name
> SPAM: Hit! (0.5 points)  Subject has an exclamation mark
> SPAM: Hit! (-0.4 points) BODY: Contains a line >=199 characters long
> SPAM: 
> SPAM: -------------------- End of SpamAssassin results ---------------------
> 
> begin  criminally inane would be closer to the mark. Apparently the
> Chinese VMOS is usually called the yellow pages. Sometimes it's
> open, sometimes proprietary. They paved paradise and they put up a
> parking lot. You'd be astounded if you knew who I was.

	Sir, you are a booby, and you belong in the booby hatch.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From dmarti at zgp.org  Sun Jun  9 13:20:27 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [alina365@hotmail.com: *****SPAM***** http://burnallgifs.org/]
In-Reply-To: <20020609182628.GE3275@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 11:26:28AM -0700
References: <20020609182628.GE3275@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020609132027.A13190@zgp.org>

begin Nick Moffitt quotation of Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 11:26:28AM -0700:

> ha ha ha.

New burnallgifs.org policy: all ignorant Ayn-Rand-smokers get their
email addresses posted in the spambait section.

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From dmarti at zgp.org  Sun Jun  9 13:22:04 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] A five-star hotel, ON THE NET!
In-Reply-To: <6u1ybg5kzq.fsf@zork.zork.net>; from sneakums@zork.net on Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 08:07:37PM +0100
References: <6u1ybg5kzq.fsf@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020609132204.B13190@zgp.org>

begin Sean Neakums quotation of Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 08:07:37PM +0100:

> http://www.habbohotel.com/ <-- emad
> 
> Rooms by the hour!

bobbain' A!

http://www.habbohotel.com/bobbafilter.html

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From sneakums at zork.net  Sun Jun  9 13:24:54 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: *****SPAM***** [!CrackMonkey!] Criminally insane? I don't think
 so!
In-Reply-To: <20020609201632.GG3275@zork.net> (Monkey Master and Prince
 Regent of San Francisco's message of "Sun, 9 Jun 2002 13:16:32 -0700")
References: <3CF4C10A@mail.djuice.co.nz> <20020609201632.GG3275@zork.net>
Message-ID: <6uwut842uh.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco quotation:

>> SPAM: Content analysis details:   (4 hits, 4 required)

ha ha 4

-- 
"Linux is merely a complex GCC test-case, not a serious attempt at a kernel."
	-- Eamon de Valera


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Sun Jun  9 13:27:31 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] A five-star hotel, ON THE NET!
In-Reply-To: <20020609132204.B13190@zgp.org>
References: <6u1ybg5kzq.fsf@zork.zork.net> <20020609132204.B13190@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <20020609202731.GH3275@zork.net>

begin  Don Marti Lives Three Hours from Nowhere  quotation:
> bobbain' A!

	Why do people always spell it "A" when it's obviously "eh"?

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Sun Jun  9 13:29:57 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: *****SPAM***** [!CrackMonkey!] Criminally insane? I don't think so!
In-Reply-To: <6uwut842uh.fsf@zork.zork.net>
References: <3CF4C10A@mail.djuice.co.nz> <20020609201632.GG3275@zork.net> <6uwut842uh.fsf@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020609202957.GI3275@zork.net>

begin  Sean Neakums  quotation:
> >> SPAM: Content analysis details:   (4 hits, 4 required)
> 
> ha ha 4

	Yep.  Auto-whitelisting makes this the best setting ever!

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From sneakums at zork.net  Sun Jun  9 13:32:52 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] A five-star hotel, ON THE NET!
In-Reply-To: <20020609202731.GH3275@zork.net> (Monkey Master and Prince
 Regent of San Francisco's message of "Sun, 9 Jun 2002 13:27:31 -0700")
References: <6u1ybg5kzq.fsf@zork.zork.net> <20020609132204.B13190@zgp.org>
	<20020609202731.GH3275@zork.net>
Message-ID: <6usn3w42h7.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco quotation:

> begin  Don Marti Lives Three Hours from Nowhere  quotation:
>> bobbain' A!
>
> 	Why do people always spell it "A" when it's obviously "eh"?

Welcome to ICQ.

-- 
"A cavalry would be a waste of time.  Guys on bikes, that's the ticket!"
	-- Eamon de Valera


From henrik at enberg.org  Sun Jun  9 13:38:44 2002
From: henrik at enberg.org (Henrik Enberg)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: Criminally insane? I don't think so!
In-Reply-To: <3CF4C10A@mail.djuice.co.nz> (0272456089's message of "Mon, 10
 Jun 2002 08:07:07 +1200")
References: <3CF4C10A@mail.djuice.co.nz>
Message-ID: <87r8jg192j.fsf@enberg.org>

0272456089 <0272456089@djuice.co.nz> writes:

> You'd be astounded if you knew who I was.

Sam Neill?

-- 
Yo mama's so fat, when she backs up she beeps.


From 0272456089 at djuice.co.nz  Sun Jun  9 13:45:59 2002
From: 0272456089 at djuice.co.nz (0272456089)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Keep it under four
Message-ID: <3CF4C1E2@mail.djuice.co.nz>

begin  Keep the lines short, don't put punctuation in the subject. Can't fix any of the others.



From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Sun Jun  9 13:51:05 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Keep it under four
In-Reply-To: <3CF4C1E2@mail.djuice.co.nz>
References: <3CF4C1E2@mail.djuice.co.nz>
Message-ID: <20020609205105.GJ3275@zork.net>

begin  0272456089  quotation:
> begin  Keep the lines short, don't put punctuation in the subject.
> Can't fix any of the others.

X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.4 required=4.0
tests=FROM_STARTS_WITH_NUMS,FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,TO_LOCALPART_EQ_REAL,PLING
version=2.20
X-Spam-Level: ***

	Not bad.  I'll whitelist you anyway now.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu  Sun Jun  9 14:16:53 2002
From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian D. Hicks)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Keep it under four
In-Reply-To: <3CF4C1E2@mail.djuice.co.nz>
References: <3CF4C1E2@mail.djuice.co.nz>
Message-ID: <20020609211653.GO14322@8ball.wox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Setting Orange, the 14th of Confusion, 3168, 0272456089 wrote:
> begin  Keep the lines short, don't put punctuation in the subject. Can't fix any of the others.

Isn't the long line a negative hit, though?

- -- 
Brian Hicks <http://eight.dhs.org> <hick0142@umn.edu> <PGP:0xADDD1F16> 
	This message would self-destruct in 10 seconds, except I'm 
	   not that clever.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE9A8XBjLHcIq3dHxYRAq4zAJ40Lv6uJD6HXIxtY53l/hqzDnFtkwCeI28R
fbsZC4IndSu4j8Dw4soFxwE=
=PBRq
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From sneakums at zork.net  Sun Jun  9 14:27:06 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Keep it under four
In-Reply-To: <20020609211653.GO14322@8ball.wox.org> ("Brian D. Hicks"'s
 message of "Sun, 9 Jun 2002 16:16:53 -0500")
References: <3CF4C1E2@mail.djuice.co.nz>
	<20020609211653.GO14322@8ball.wox.org>
Message-ID: <6uofek3zyt.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Brian D. Hicks quotation:

> On Setting Orange, the 14th of Confusion, 3168, 0272456089 wrote:
>> begin  Keep the lines short, don't put punctuation in the subject. Can't fix any of the others.
>
> Isn't the long line a negative hit, though?

No.  Why on Earth would it be?

-- 
"Ah, the SCSL.  The 'All your changes are belong to Sun' license".
	-- Eamon de Valera


From sneakums at zork.net  Sun Jun  9 14:30:13 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Keep it under four
In-Reply-To: <6uofek3zyt.fsf@zork.zork.net> (Sean Neakums's message of "Sun,
 09 Jun 2002 22:27:06 +0100")
References: <3CF4C1E2@mail.djuice.co.nz>
	<20020609211653.GO14322@8ball.wox.org> <6uofek3zyt.fsf@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <6uk7p83ztm.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Sean Neakums quotation:

> commence  Brian D. Hicks quotation:
>
>> On Setting Orange, the 14th of Confusion, 3168, 0272456089 wrote:
>>> begin  Keep the lines short, don't put punctuation in the subject. Can't fix any of the others.
>>
>> Isn't the long line a negative hit, though?
>
> No.  Why on Earth would it be?

And by "no", I mean "yes".

-- 
 /////////////////  |                  | The spark of a pin
<sneakums@zork.net> |  (require 'gnu)  | dropping, falling feather-like.
 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\  |                  | There is too much noise.


From smcmahon at eiv.com  Sun Jun  9 14:35:37 2002
From: smcmahon at eiv.com (Shawn McMahon)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] and we worry about things like software licenses
In-Reply-To: <200206080932.45709.dep@linuxandmain.com>
References: <200206080932.45709.dep@linuxandmain.com>
Message-ID: <20020609213537.GD11726@eiv.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

begin  dep quotation:
> 
> loyal, devoted and very passionate. Some of them are also very highly 
> educated. They enjoy sports, music, arts and bond well in a family 
> environment."

"And, they know where to find the best weed.  Except that last purchase,
from the cop."


- -- 
Shawn McMahon                    | McMahon's Laws of Linux support:
http://www.eiv.com               | 1) There's more than one way to do it
AIM: spmcmahonfedex, smcmahoneiv | 2) Somebody thinks your way is wrong
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iEYEARECAAYFAj0DyigACgkQEcl9bQ0RMt1nzgCfWT0OfRmiWEJQARpGZnFb9+RB
EskAoOvw2KCPahnhoolAxV1FN2WKtGxX
=YIDL
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From junasts at subdimension.com  Sun Jun  9 14:40:58 2002
From: junasts at subdimension.com (Last Judgement Samuel)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Keep it under four
In-Reply-To: <6uofek3zyt.fsf@zork.zork.net> (Sean Neakums's message of "Sun,
 09 Jun 2002 22:27:06 +0100")
References: <3CF4C1E2@mail.djuice.co.nz>
	<20020609211653.GO14322@8ball.wox.org> <6uofek3zyt.fsf@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <878z5o5dw5.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

>>>>> "SN" == Sean Neakums <sneakums@zork.net> writes:

    >>  Isn't the long line a negative hit, though?

    SN> No.

---8<---
score SUPERLONG_LINE                 -0.374
---8<---

Perhaps you should check your facts before getting all persnickety,
you supercilious Icelandic bastard.

    SN>  Why on Earth would it be?

Slavish devotion to half-ass genetic algorithms, of course. Best way
to ruin a good knowledge base.

                                     -- Last Judgement Samuel

-- 
+++ Last Judgement Samuel + junasts@subdimension.com + 0x8D3E92DE +++


From sneakums at zork.net  Sun Jun  9 14:46:44 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Keep it under four
In-Reply-To: <878z5o5dw5.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> (Last
 Judgement Samuel's message of "Sun, 09 Jun 2002 17:40:58 -0400")
References: <3CF4C1E2@mail.djuice.co.nz>
	<20020609211653.GO14322@8ball.wox.org> <6uofek3zyt.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<878z5o5dw5.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <6uelfg3z23.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Last Judgement Samuel quotation:

> Perhaps you should check your facts before getting all persnickety,
> you supercilious Icelandic bastard.

That's certainly good advice.

-- 
"What they should do is try to get a whole nest of artificially
 intelligent kernels like ants or bees: ``Stop the hacker!  He's going
 for the queen!''  And like a bunch of them start shutting down
 various systems ... it'd be like Death Star except without the
 explosions." -- Emad El-Haraty, on OS design.


From jdub at perkypants.org  Sun Jun  9 14:57:46 2002
From: jdub at perkypants.org (Jeff Waugh)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Keep it under four
In-Reply-To: <6uelfg3z23.fsf@zork.zork.net>
References: <3CF4C1E2@mail.djuice.co.nz> <20020609211653.GO14322@8ball.wox.org> <6uofek3zyt.fsf@zork.zork.net> <878z5o5dw5.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <6uelfg3z23.fsf@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020609215746.GN1115@perkypants.org>

<quote who="Sean Neakums">

> commence  Last Judgement Samuel quotation:
> 
> > Perhaps you should check your facts before getting all persnickety,
> > you supercilious Icelandic bastard.
> 
> That's certainly good advice.

s/supercilious/sycophantic/

- Jeff

-- 
   "Anyone getting 1 Gigabit/sec for $20 is tele-commuting from the year    
                           2217..." - Paul Haddon                           


From sneakums at zork.net  Sun Jun  9 15:02:26 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:17 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Keep it under four
In-Reply-To: <20020609215746.GN1115@perkypants.org> (Jeff Waugh's message of
 "Mon, 10 Jun 2002 07:57:46 +1000")
References: <3CF4C1E2@mail.djuice.co.nz>
	<20020609211653.GO14322@8ball.wox.org> <6uofek3zyt.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<878z5o5dw5.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
	<6uelfg3z23.fsf@zork.zork.net> <20020609215746.GN1115@perkypants.org>
Message-ID: <6uadq43ybx.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Jeff Waugh quotation:

> <quote who="Sean Neakums">
>> commence  Last Judgement Samuel quotation:
>> > Perhaps you should check your facts before getting all
>> > persnickety, you supercilious Icelandic bastard.
>> 
>> That's certainly good advice.
>
> s/supercilious/sycophantic/

Shouldn't you be working on getting that Windows emulator out the door
rather than wasting your time on mailing lists?

-- 
"Love and understanding are the ultimate crimes."
	-- Eamon de Valera


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Sun Jun  9 16:00:08 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Keep it under four
In-Reply-To: <6uadq43ybx.fsf@zork.zork.net>
References: <3CF4C1E2@mail.djuice.co.nz> <20020609211653.GO14322@8ball.wox.org> <6uofek3zyt.fsf@zork.zork.net> <878z5o5dw5.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <6uelfg3z23.fsf@zork.zork.net> <20020609215746.GN1115@perkypants.org> <6uadq43ybx.fsf@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020609230008.GK3275@zork.net>

begin  Sean Neakums  quotation:
> Shouldn't you be working on getting that Windows emulator out the
> door rather than wasting your time on mailing lists?

	Woohoo!  EMACS/GNOME cagematch! 

	Surely we can get the OTHER Norwegian freak out of Austria to
participate in a yeti cage-fight with geysers and Bjork and shiny,
crimson blood!

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From dmarti at zgp.org  Sun Jun  9 16:18:57 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Keep it under four
In-Reply-To: <20020609230008.GK3275@zork.net>; from monkeymaster@crackmonkey.org on Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 04:00:08PM -0700
References: <3CF4C1E2@mail.djuice.co.nz> <20020609211653.GO14322@8ball.wox.org> <6uofek3zyt.fsf@zork.zork.net> <878z5o5dw5.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <6uelfg3z23.fsf@zork.zork.net> <20020609215746.GN1115@perkypants.org> <6uadq43ybx.fsf@zork.zork.net> <20020609230008.GK3275@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020609161857.A15476@zgp.org>

begin Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco quotation of Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 04:00:08PM -0700:

> 	Surely we can get the OTHER Norwegian freak out of Austria to
> participate in a yeti cage-fight with geysers and Bjork and shiny,
> crimson blood!

Right now all we have is BeOS...I mean Mac OS X.

Don't tell anybody about the blood part until LinuxWorld has already
given permission.

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From dmarti at zgp.org  Sun Jun  9 16:26:28 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] It's all clear to me now!
Message-ID: <20020609162628.B15476@zgp.org>

_Now_ I get it!  The GNU General Public License really does promote
Communism!

"More political extremism: if you cannot distribute the program
in FULL compliance with the GPL, then you cannot distribute it at
all. This is nothing more than anti-competitive, anti-capitalism
restrictions."

"The very spirit of the GPL is to attack the very concept of
Capitalism and individualism."

http://www.daemonnews.org/199905/gpl.html

See http://www.ibm.com/products/rope-to-hang-Lou-Gerstner 

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Sun Jun  9 16:26:29 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Keep it under four
In-Reply-To: <20020609161857.A15476@zgp.org>
References: <3CF4C1E2@mail.djuice.co.nz> <20020609211653.GO14322@8ball.wox.org> <6uofek3zyt.fsf@zork.zork.net> <878z5o5dw5.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <6uelfg3z23.fsf@zork.zork.net> <20020609215746.GN1115@perkypants.org> <6uadq43ybx.fsf@zork.zork.net> <20020609230008.GK3275@zork.net> <20020609161857.A15476@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <20020609232629.GL3275@zork.net>

begin  Don Marti Lives Three Hours from Nowhere  quotation:
> Right now all we have is BeOS...I mean Mac OS X.

	That's *your* cagematch, in San Francisco with some East Bay
turtleneck Mac weenie.  That boy will be throwing up his Sartre and
crying for mommie after the first thirty seconds!  I'm talking about
taking on the bald-headed Icelandic EMACS freak on his home territory!

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Sun Jun  9 16:31:16 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] It's all clear to me now!
In-Reply-To: <20020609162628.B15476@zgp.org>
References: <20020609162628.B15476@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <20020609233116.GM3275@zork.net>

begin  Don Marti Lives Three Hours from Nowhere  quotation:
> _Now_ I get it!  The GNU General Public License really does promote
> Communism!

	Yeah!  Cuz DOCTOR WHO told you so, in 1998!

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From nick at zork.net  Sun Jun  9 16:39:59 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] 19th century dutch typewriter pr0n
Message-ID: <20020609233959.GN3275@zork.net>

http://www.mmworks.nl/typewritermuseum/lib/library_photo_ero.html

	It is breathtaking!  The very notion!

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From ron at vnetworx.net  Sun Jun  9 16:45:41 2002
From: ron at vnetworx.net (Subjugator of Pt. Jeff & Conqueror  of Long Island)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Keep it under four
In-Reply-To: <20020609161857.A15476@zgp.org>
References: <3CF4C1E2@mail.djuice.co.nz>
	<20020609211653.GO14322@8ball.wox.org> <6uofek3zyt.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<878z5o5dw5.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
	<6uelfg3z23.fsf@zork.zork.net> <20020609215746.GN1115@perkypants.org>
	<6uadq43ybx.fsf@zork.zork.net> <20020609230008.GK3275@zork.net> 
	<20020609161857.A15476@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <1023666342.22595.287136.camel@amory>

On Sun, 2002-06-09 at 19:18, Don Marti wrote:
> begin Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco quotation of Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 04:00:08PM -0700:
> 
> > 	Surely we can get the OTHER Norwegian freak out of Austria to
> > participate in a yeti cage-fight with geysers and Bjork and shiny,
> > crimson blood!
> 
> Right now all we have is BeOS...I mean Mac OS X.
> 
> Don't tell anybody about the blood part until LinuxWorld has already
> given permission.

You don't need permission if you hold it in Brooklyn.  The CEO is having
a cage-fight to the death between Rosen and Valenti next weekend in his
Arena of Fair Use Circumventors.  The winner will be congratulated, then
drowned in the dunk-tank at Coney Island.

Yours could be put on the undercard.






From sneakums at zork.net  Sun Jun  9 16:50:06 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Keep it under four
In-Reply-To: <1023666342.22595.287136.camel@amory> (Subjugator "of Pt. Jeff
 & Conqueror "of Long Island's message of "09 Jun 2002 19:45:41 -0400")
References: <3CF4C1E2@mail.djuice.co.nz>
	<20020609211653.GO14322@8ball.wox.org> <6uofek3zyt.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<878z5o5dw5.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
	<6uelfg3z23.fsf@zork.zork.net> <20020609215746.GN1115@perkypants.org>
	<6uadq43ybx.fsf@zork.zork.net> <20020609230008.GK3275@zork.net>
	<20020609161857.A15476@zgp.org> <1023666342.22595.287136.camel@amory>
Message-ID: <6u660s3tch.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Subjugator of Pt. Jeff & Conqueror  of Long Island quotation:

> You don't need permission if you hold it in Brooklyn.  The CEO is having
> a cage-fight to the death between Rosen and Valenti next weekend in his
> Arena of Fair Use Circumventors.  The winner will be congratulated, then
> drowned in the dunk-tank at Coney Island.
>
> Yours could be put on the undercard.

But my dressing gown has an exclamation mark on the back of it.  I
won't be allowed to enter the State of New York.

-- 
STOP THE CASCADIA MEGATHRUST EARTHQUAKE SUBDUCTION EVENT


From inkblot at movealong.org  Sun Jun  9 17:21:35 2002
From: inkblot at movealong.org (Nate Riffe)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [lgarfiel@students.depaul.edu: [Fwd: Cat's diary]]
Message-ID: <20020610002135.GA30633@movealong.org>

Most of the "cat's life" bullshit that I get from Larry is really
lame, but this one is... well... read it.

----- Forwarded message from Larry Garfield <lgarfiel@students.depaul.edu> -----

How the other half thinks.....

-------- Original Message --------

EXCERPTS FROM A CAT'S DIARY:

DAY 183 

My captors continue to taunt me with bizarre little dangling objects.
They dine lavishly on fresh meat, while I am forced to eat dry cereal.
The only thing that keeps me going is the hope of escape, and the mild
satisfaction I get from ruining the occasional piece of furniture.

Tomorrow I may eat another houseplant.

DAY 184 

Today my attempt to kill my captors by weaving around their feet while
they were walking almost succeeded, must try this at the top of the
stairs. In an attempt to disgust and repulse these vile oppressors, I
once again induced myself to vomit on their favorite chair ... must try
this on their bed.

DAY 185 

Decapitated a mouse and brought them the headless body, in attempt to
make them aware of what I am capable of, and to try to strike fear into
their hearts. They only cooed and condescended about what a good little
cat I was ... Hmmm. Not working according to plan.

DAY 186 

I am finally aware of how sadistic they are. For no good reason I was
chosen for the water torture. This time however it included a burning
foamy chemical called "shampoo." What sick minds could invent such a
liquid. My only consolation is the piece of thumb still stuck between my
teeth.

DAY 187 

There was some sort of gathering of their accomplices. I was placed in
solitary throughout the event. However, I could hear the noise and smell
the foul odor of the glass tubes they call "beer". More importantly I
overheard that my confinement was due to MY power of "allergies." Must
learn what this is and how to use it to my advantage.

DAY 188 

I am convinced the other captives are flunkies and maybe snitches. The
dog is routinely released and seems more than happy to return. He is
obviously a half-wit. The bird on the other hand has got to be an
informant, and speaks with them regularly. I am certain he reports my
every move. Due to his current placement in the metal room, his safety
is assured. But I can wait, it is only a matter of time...

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
--< ((\))< >----< inkblot@movealong.org >----< http://www.movealong.org/ >--
pub  1024D/05A058E0 2002-03-07 Nate Riffe (06-Mar-2002) <inkblot@movealong.org>
     Key fingerprint = 0DAC F5CB D182 3165 D757  C466 CD42 12A8 05A0 58E0


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Sun Jun  9 17:43:06 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [lgarfiel@students.depaul.edu: [Fwd: Cat's diary]]
In-Reply-To: <20020610002135.GA30633@movealong.org>
References: <20020610002135.GA30633@movealong.org>
Message-ID: <20020610004306.GO3275@zork.net>

begin  Nate Riffe  quotation:
> Most of the "cat's life" bullshit that I get from Larry is really
> lame, but this one is... well... read it.

	EQUALLY LAME

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From junasts at subdimension.com  Sun Jun  9 18:08:32 2002
From: junasts at subdimension.com (Last Judgement Samuel)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [lgarfiel@students.depaul.edu: [Fwd: Cat's
 diary]]
In-Reply-To: <20020610002135.GA30633@movealong.org> (Nate Riffe's message of
 "Sun, 9 Jun 2002 19:21:35 -0500")
References: <20020610002135.GA30633@movealong.org>
Message-ID: <878z5o0wkv.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

>>>>> "NR" == Nate Riffe <inkblot@movealong.org> writes:

    NR> Most of the "cat's life" bullshit that I get from Larry is
    NR> really lame, but this one is... well... read it.

WOW! It's ALSO lame! What are the ODDS?!?!

                                        -- Last Judgement Samuel

-- 
+++ Last Judgement Samuel + junasts@subdimension.com + 0x8D3E92DE +++


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Sun Jun  9 18:14:16 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [lgarfiel@students.depaul.edu: [Fwd: Cat's diary]]
In-Reply-To: <878z5o0wkv.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <20020610002135.GA30633@movealong.org> <878z5o0wkv.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <20020610011416.GP3275@zork.net>

begin  Last Judgement Samuel  quotation:
> >>>>> "NR" == Nate Riffe <inkblot@movealong.org> writes:
> 
>     NR> Most of the "cat's life" bullshit that I get from Larry is
>     NR> really lame, but this one is... well... read it.
> 
> WOW! It's ALSO lame! What are the ODDS?!?!

http://crackmonkey.org/faq.html#ANSWER28

	I suspect a feline conspiracy of lameness.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From junasts at subdimension.com  Sun Jun  9 18:13:43 2002
From: junasts at subdimension.com (Last Judgement Samuel)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [lgarfiel@students.depaul.edu: [Fwd: Cat's
 diary]]
In-Reply-To: <20020610004306.GO3275@zork.net> (Monkey Master and Prince
 Regent of San Francisco's message of "Sun, 9 Jun 2002 17:43:06 -0700")
References: <20020610002135.GA30633@movealong.org>
	<20020610004306.GO3275@zork.net>
Message-ID: <874rgc0wc8.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

>>>>> "MMaPRoSF" == Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco <monkeymaster@crackmonkey.org> writes:

    >> Most of the "cat's life" bullshit that I get from Larry is
    >> really lame, but this one is... well... read it.

    MMaPRoSF> 	EQUALLY LAME

The mind boggles at what level of dreck could make that lame cat story
seem stellar by comparison. Perhaps some kind of
angels/wishes/smiles/frowns/pass-this-along-to-your-friends
agglomerates? I dunno.

But it has become GLARINGLY APPARENT that the Archduke of Chicago is
losing his grip! And that all of his liege lands are UP FOR GRABS!

                                       -- Last Judgment Samuel

P.S. Dibs on the U.P.

-- 
+++ Last Judgement Samuel + junasts@subdimension.com + 0x8D3E92DE +++


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Sun Jun  9 18:21:27 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [lgarfiel@students.depaul.edu: [Fwd: Cat's diary]]
In-Reply-To: <874rgc0wc8.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <20020610002135.GA30633@movealong.org> <20020610004306.GO3275@zork.net> <874rgc0wc8.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <20020610012127.GQ3275@zork.net>

begin  Last Judgement Samuel  quotation:
> The mind boggles at what level of dreck could make that lame cat
> story seem stellar by comparison. Perhaps some kind of
> angels/wishes/smiles/frowns/pass-this-along-to-your-friends
> agglomerates? I dunno.

	Maybe it was a furry fan fiction where the author wrote
himself in as a cat who was balling Spock in a sequel to the attack of
the clones.

	http://www.brunching.com/features/geekhierarchy.html

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From inkblot at movealong.org  Sun Jun  9 18:33:40 2002
From: inkblot at movealong.org (The Archduke of Chicago and Subjugator of Michigan)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [lgarfiel@students.depaul.edu: [Fwd: Cat's diary]]
In-Reply-To: <874rgc0wc8.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <20020610002135.GA30633@movealong.org> <20020610004306.GO3275@zork.net> <874rgc0wc8.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <20020610013340.GA415@movealong.org>

Just now Last Judgement Samuel made 15 LEDs in my apartment flash with this:
> >>>>> "MMaPRoSF" == Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco <monkeymaster@crackmonkey.org> writes:
> 
>     >> Most of the "cat's life" bullshit that I get from Larry is
>     >> really lame, but this one is... well... read it.
> 
>     MMaPRoSF> 	EQUALLY LAME
> 
> The mind boggles at what level of dreck could make that lame cat story
> seem stellar by comparison. Perhaps some kind of
> angels/wishes/smiles/frowns/pass-this-along-to-your-friends
> agglomerates? I dunno.

You've hit the nail precisely on the head.  MMaPRoSF was very
premature to call it "EQUALLY LAME".  The others are far lamer.
Anyway, somebody somewhere on this list is grinning at the post.  If
it's not you, I really don't care.

> 
> But it has become GLARINGLY APPARENT that the Archduke of Chicago is
> losing his grip! And that all of his liege lands are UP FOR GRABS!

It's possible... I've been subsisting on peanut butter and jelly
sandwiches and three hour naps for the last two weeks.

> P.S. Dibs on the U.P.

Take it, it's all wanabee-canadians anyway.  You want Mackinac Island,
too?  Try the fudge, it's delicious.

-- 
--< ((\))< >----< inkblot@movealong.org >----< http://www.movealong.org/ >--
pub  1024D/05A058E0 2002-03-07 Nate Riffe (06-Mar-2002) <inkblot@movealong.org>
     Key fingerprint = 0DAC F5CB D182 3165 D757  C466 CD42 12A8 05A0 58E0


From mr.bad at pigdog.org  Sun Jun  9 18:34:15 2002
From: mr.bad at pigdog.org (Mister Bad)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] It's all clear to me now!
In-Reply-To: <20020609162628.B15476@zgp.org> (Don Marti's message of "Sun, 9
 Jun 2002 16:26:28 -0700")
References: <20020609162628.B15476@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <87y9dnj4rs.fsf@gaff.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

>>>>> "DM" == Don Marti <dmarti@zgp.org> writes:

    DM> "More political extremism: if you cannot distribute the
    DM> program in FULL compliance with the GPL, then you cannot
    DM> distribute it at all. This is nothing more than
    DM> anti-competitive, anti-capitalism restrictions."

Of course, most proprietary software allows you to pick and choose
which clauses of the license to comply with.

So, if you don't comply in full with BSD-style licenses, are you
still allowed to distribute the software? If you are allowed to do so,
isn't that therefore in compliance? If you are given permission to
disobey, won't all the robots fall over and sparks come out of their
heads?

Also, do any of your fair use rights* apply to GPL'd software? Such as,
for example, being able to resell them, even though the license says
under certain conditions you can't?

Like, can I take my first 2 potato disks and go sell them at the used
software store, without providing the last 2 source disks? Despite the
fact that most of the software is GPL'd?

    DM> "The very spirit of the GPL is to attack the very concept of
    DM> Capitalism and individualism."

Which is against the promise of our objectivist chest-oiling future.

So, show of hands: who's been around long enough to remember when
there used to be females who posted on crackmonkey?

~Mr. Bad

* Actually, I forget what it's called where you're allowed to sell
  your used records.

-- 
Mr. Bad <mr.bad@pigdog.org> | Pigdog Journal | http://pigdog.org/ 

"Well, I fooled you! I fooled you! I got pig iron! I got pig iron! 
I got aaaaallll pig iron!"




From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu  Sun Jun  9 18:41:56 2002
From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [lgarfiel@students.depaul.edu: [Fwd: Cat's diary]] 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 09 Jun 2002 18:21:27 PDT."
             <20020610012127.GQ3275@zork.net> 
References: <20020610002135.GA30633@movealong.org> <20020610004306.GO3275@zork.net> <874rgc0wc8.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
            <20020610012127.GQ3275@zork.net>
Message-ID: <200206100141.g5A1fuSI026164@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>

On Sun, 09 Jun 2002 18:21:27 PDT, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco <monkeymaster@crackmonkey.org>  said:
> begin  Last Judgement Samuel  quotation:
> > The mind boggles at what level of dreck could make that lame cat

> 	Maybe it was a furry fan fiction where the author wrote
> himself in as a cat who was balling Spock in a sequel to the attack of
> the clones.

He was talking about writing ability, not motivation.  I'm sure there's
authors who could write that story and make it interesting, but obviously
those writers weren't responsible for the aformentioned dreck.

Ted Sturgeon underestimated...



From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Sun Jun  9 18:44:03 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [lgarfiel@students.depaul.edu: [Fwd: Cat's diary]]
In-Reply-To: <20020610013340.GA415@movealong.org>
References: <20020610002135.GA30633@movealong.org> <20020610004306.GO3275@zork.net> <874rgc0wc8.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20020610013340.GA415@movealong.org>
Message-ID: <20020610014403.GR3275@zork.net>

begin  The Archduke of Chicago and Subjugator of Michigan  quotation:
> Just now Last Judgement Samuel made 15 LEDs in my apartment flash
> with this:
> > P.S. Dibs on the U.P.
> 
> Take it, it's all wanabee-canadians anyway.  

	Ha ha.  He'll fit right in!

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From ron at vnetworx.net  Sun Jun  9 18:42:24 2002
From: ron at vnetworx.net (Subjugator of Pt. Jeff & Conqueror  of Long Island)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Keep it under four
In-Reply-To: <6u660s3tch.fsf@zork.zork.net>
References: <3CF4C1E2@mail.djuice.co.nz>
	<20020609211653.GO14322@8ball.wox.org> <6uofek3zyt.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<878z5o5dw5.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
	<6uelfg3z23.fsf@zork.zork.net> <20020609215746.GN1115@perkypants.org>
	<6uadq43ybx.fsf@zork.zork.net> <20020609230008.GK3275@zork.net>
	<20020609161857.A15476@zgp.org> <1023666342.22595.287136.camel@amory> 
	<6u660s3tch.fsf@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <1023673344.22746.292331.camel@amory>

On Sun, 2002-06-09 at 19:50, Sean Neakums wrote:
> But my dressing gown has an exclamation mark on the back of it.  I
> won't be allowed to enter the State of New York.

Well, that's not exactly true.  You would be allowed in, but you would
immediately, or perhaps later at seemingly random times, be mocked and
then cast out.  The CEO feels this ritual is necessary for the good of
Wisconson, you should not take it personally.







From jim at musenki.com  Sun Jun  9 18:51:20 2002
From: jim at musenki.com (Jim Thompson)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] It's all clear to me now!
In-Reply-To: <87y9dnj4rs.fsf@gaff.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <20020609162628.B15476@zgp.org>
	<87y9dnj4rs.fsf@gaff.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <15620.1560.45319.638109@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

Mister Bad writes:

> Also, do any of your fair use rights* apply to GPL'd software? Such as,
> for example, being able to resell them, even though the license says
> under certain conditions you can't?
> [...]
> * Actually, I forget what it's called where you're allowed to sell
>   your used records.

The "First Sale" doctrine.

-- 
"Perl is basically TECO-99."  ---Barry Shein



From mike at embody.org  Sun Jun  9 18:58:51 2002
From: mike at embody.org (mike dillon (Agent Orange Dick))
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] It's all clear to me now!
In-Reply-To: <87y9dnj4rs.fsf@gaff.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <20020609162628.B15476@zgp.org> <87y9dnj4rs.fsf@gaff.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <20020610015850.GA4548@eber.embody.org>

begin  Mister Bad quotation:
> * Actually, I forget what it's called where you're allowed to sell
>   your used records.

"First Sale Doctrine", I believe.

-md


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Sun Jun  9 18:54:07 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] It's all clear to me now!
In-Reply-To: <87y9dnj4rs.fsf@gaff.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <20020609162628.B15476@zgp.org> <87y9dnj4rs.fsf@gaff.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <20020610015407.GT3275@zork.net>

begin  The Mighty Silverback  quotation:
> So, show of hands: who's been around long enough to remember when
> there used to be females who posted on crackmonkey?

	They were all right-handed carnivorous Lojban teachers.  

	We had them liquidated.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu  Sun Jun  9 19:00:18 2002
From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Keep it under four 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 09 Jun 2002 21:42:24 EDT."
             <1023673344.22746.292331.camel@amory> 
References: <3CF4C1E2@mail.djuice.co.nz> <20020609211653.GO14322@8ball.wox.org> <6uofek3zyt.fsf@zork.zork.net> <878z5o5dw5.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <6uelfg3z23.fsf@zork.zork.net> <20020609215746.GN1115@perkypants.org> <6uadq43ybx.fsf@zork.zork.net> <20020609230008.GK3275@zork.net> <20020609161857.A15476@zgp.org> <1023666342.22595.287136.camel@amory> <6u660s3tch.fsf@zork.zork.net>
            <1023673344.22746.292331.camel@amory>
Message-ID: <200206100200.g5A20ISI026399@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>

On Sun, 09 Jun 2002 21:42:24 EDT, "Subjugator of Pt. Jeff & Conqueror of Long Island" <ron@vnetworx.net>  said:

> Well, that's not exactly true.  You would be allowed in, but you would
> immediately, or perhaps later at seemingly random times, be mocked and
> then cast out.  The CEO feels this ritual is necessary for the good of

And this would be different than his current life how?


From carton at Ivy.NET  Sun Jun  9 13:37:27 2002
From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Not only are they not giving refunds...
In-Reply-To: <200206071651.44014.dep@linuxandmain.com>
 (dep's message of "Fri, 7 Jun 2002 16:51:44 -0400")
References: <20020607190231.GI24561@zork.net> <20020607123440.A19352@zgp.org>
 <200206071651.44014.dep@linuxandmain.com>
Message-ID: <oqy9donq7s.fsf@balthasar.nat>

>>>>> "d" == dep  <dep@linuxandmain.com> writes:

     d> rename a few files on win machines at staples and office
     d> depot.

I printed my I-129 essay for free at Kinkos.  I jacked into their
publicly-offered Ethernet pigtail for printing, and it generated no
DeskTracy bill so they couldn't be bothered to charge, even when I
offered to pay.  I don't get it.  The Ethernet is there only so you
can print from your laptop, so it should at least bill for its
intended use.  It's not like I was trying to print for free---I was
just trying to print, any way I could.  I was using NetBSD's lpr, but
don't even Winders and Mackertoshers use lpr now?

-- 
I am an American Airline pilot.


From carton at Ivy.NET  Sun Jun  9 13:32:37 2002
From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Chinese OS
In-Reply-To: <200206090501.g5951wSI009982@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
 (Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu's message of "Sun, 09 Jun 2002 01:01:57 -0400")
References: <3CF4B493@mail.djuice.co.nz>
 <200206090501.g5951wSI009982@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <oqzny4nqfu.fsf@balthasar.nat>

>>>>> "vk" == Valdis Kletnieks <Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu> writes:

    vk> refugees from AI labs. . . pound an AI Koan through its boot
    vk> disk.

you are such a dinosaur.

-- 
``The future is like walking down some unlit corridor, and it gets
darker and darker as you move into it.''
		-- Jack Valenti


From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu  Sun Jun  9 21:16:27 2002
From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Chinese OS 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 09 Jun 2002 16:32:37 EDT."
             <oqzny4nqfu.fsf@balthasar.nat> 
References: <3CF4B493@mail.djuice.co.nz> <200206090501.g5951wSI009982@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
            <oqzny4nqfu.fsf@balthasar.nat>
Message-ID: <200206100416.g5A4GRSI027402@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>

On Sun, 09 Jun 2002 16:32:37 EDT, Miles Nordin <carton@Ivy.NET>  said:
>     vk> refugees from AI labs. . . pound an AI Koan through its boot
>     vk> disk.
> you are such a dinosaur.

Not at all.  I'm merely proposing a first-time-ever actual productive
use for an AI Koan, before they get sold off as surplus and fall into
the wrong hands.  Imagine the damage Microsoft could do if they got
hold of one....


From nick at zork.net  Sun Jun  9 21:26:59 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
Message-ID: <20020610042659.GU3275@zork.net>

I wonder how long this twit was on before Snatcher scared him off.

I bet you snatcher has this list filtered out.

----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net -----

js0108@albany.edu has been removed from CrackMonkey.


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu  Sun Jun  9 21:29:56 2002
From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian D. Hicks)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Chinese OS
In-Reply-To: <200206100416.g5A4GRSI027402@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
References: <3CF4B493@mail.djuice.co.nz> <200206090501.g5951wSI009982@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <oqzny4nqfu.fsf@balthasar.nat> <200206100416.g5A4GRSI027402@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <20020610042956.GP14322@8ball.wox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Setting Orange, the 14th of Confusion, 3168, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Jun 2002 16:32:37 EDT, Miles Nordin <carton@Ivy.NET>  said:
> >     vk> refugees from AI labs. . . pound an AI Koan through its boot
> >     vk> disk.
> > you are such a dinosaur.
> 
> Not at all.  I'm merely proposing a first-time-ever actual productive
> use for an AI Koan, before they get sold off as surplus and fall into
> the wrong hands.  Imagine the damage Microsoft could do if they got
> hold of one....

You're like the cheap Hong Kong version of that soze freak.

- -- 
Brian Hicks <http://eight.dhs.org> <hick0142@umn.edu> <PGP:0xADDD1F16> 
	This message would self-destruct in 10 seconds, except I'm 
	   not that clever.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE9BCtCjLHcIq3dHxYRAji2AKD4zRYGUGzxYKi59eiERVdi7V7xdgCbBGTg
0WdL6uW+uMEtXNm7H6dKb7A=
=y35i
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From nick at zork.net  Mon Jun 10 00:43:32 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] not only is glass a solid, but the Earth is round, too!
Message-ID: <20020610074332.GA936@zork.net>

http://www.textbookleague.org/26flat.htm
> The notion that 15th-century Europeans believed Earth to be flat is
> derived from a story that was invented in the 1800s and was retold
> and embellished, with signal results, in a book of fictionalized
> "history" published by the American novelist Washington Irving.
> Irving fabricated a scene in which Columbus, suspecting that Earth
> was spherical, was assailed by ignorant priests who thought that
> Earth was flat -- and Irving's scene was so compelling that it was
> widely accepted as fact. The flat-Earth story quickly became a
> popular piece of pseudohistorical folklore, and it remains popular
> today among people who have had little education. These evidently
> include the people who produce "science" books for Prentice Hall.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From nick at zork.net  Mon Jun 10 00:47:31 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Breathing room please
Message-ID: <20020610074731.GB936@zork.net>

http://www.rnw.nl/hotspots/html/cze020606.html


	Ha ha Sudetenland

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From ron at vnetworx.net  Mon Jun 10 01:33:13 2002
From: ron at vnetworx.net (Subjugator of Pt. Jeff & Conqueror  of Long Island)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] not only is glass a solid, but the Earth is
	round, too!
In-Reply-To: <20020610074332.GA936@zork.net>
References: <20020610074332.GA936@zork.net>
Message-ID: <1023697994.22746.310457.camel@amory>

On Mon, 2002-06-10 at 03:43, Nick Moffitt wrote:
> http://www.textbookleague.org/26flat.htm
> > The notion that 15th-century Europeans believed Earth to be flat is
> > derived from a story that was invented in the 1800s and was retold
> > and embellished, with signal results, in a book of fictionalized
> > "history" published by the American novelist Washington Irving.

Man, I would have loved to see the look on his face if he could have
lived long enough to learn the Earth really _is_ flat, and the dinosaurs
in fact, rule the world.

-- 
Beware the blood lust of the Mpaasaurus Rex, and Wooly Riiamammoth.




From mwmiller at columbus.rr.com  Mon Jun 10 04:33:49 2002
From: mwmiller at columbus.rr.com (mwmiller@columbus.rr.com)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: Yada yada yatta
In-Reply-To: <m2n0u8us06.fsf@cyberstein.org>
References: <6un0ubtr9s.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2adqb76sq.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023199828.2073.11.camel@deck> <m2it4yg7mr.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023222025.1579.44.camel@deck> <m23cw1mdgf.fsf@cyberstein.org> <1023326116.1797.97.camel@deck> <m2it4xf72l.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020606111955.GU931@perkypants.org> <m2n0u8us06.fsf@cyberstein.org>
Message-ID: <20020610113349.GA11656@columbus.rr.com>

On Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 12:27:53PM -0700, Zachary Copley
<snatcher@bearfountain.com> wrote:
> I'm breaking new ground and kicking ass right in the dark and dirty

Talk a lot, don't you?
-- 
Matthew W. Miller -- mwmiller@columbus.rr.com


From mwmiller at columbus.rr.com  Mon Jun 10 04:41:07 2002
From: mwmiller at columbus.rr.com (mwmiller@columbus.rr.com)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>] Re: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <200206071224.g57COlSA002741@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
References: <20020604153527.A31842@zgp.org> <1023230462.1702.51.camel@deck> <20020604163208.A22644@zgp.org> <1023232074.1579.58.camel@deck> <m2zny9fce0.fsf@cyberstein.org> <20020606174039.GO24561@zork.net> <m2u1og9szm.fsf@cyberstein.org> <6u3cvzr15x.fsf@zork.zork.net> <m2bsan1pv6.fsf@cyberstein.org> <200206071224.g57COlSA002741@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <20020610114107.GB11656@columbus.rr.com>

On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 08:24:47AM -0400, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Jun 2002 00:59:09 PDT, Zachary Copley <snatcher@bearfountain.com>  said:
> > [ some stuff ]
> you just weren't listening at the time....

Catching on to him, are you?
-- 
Matthew W. Miller -- mwmiller@columbus.rr.com


From dmarti at zgp.org  Mon Jun 10 08:04:06 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Not only are they not giving refunds...
In-Reply-To: <oqy9donq7s.fsf@balthasar.nat>; from carton@Ivy.NET on Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 04:37:27PM -0400
References: <20020607190231.GI24561@zork.net> <20020607123440.A19352@zgp.org> <200206071651.44014.dep@linuxandmain.com> <oqy9donq7s.fsf@balthasar.nat>
Message-ID: <20020610080406.C31647@zgp.org>

begin Miles Nordin quotation of Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 04:37:27PM -0400:

> I printed my I-129 essay for free at Kinkos.

But what about Artists???  Do you ever even think what all this
high-technology foofaraw is doing to Artists???

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From dmarti at zgp.org  Mon Jun 10 08:10:53 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [lgarfiel@students.depaul.edu: [Fwd: Cat's diary]]
In-Reply-To: <874rgc0wc8.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from junasts@subdimension.com on Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 09:13:43PM -0400
References: <20020610002135.GA30633@movealong.org> <20020610004306.GO3275@zork.net> <874rgc0wc8.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <20020610081053.A31934@zgp.org>

begin Last Judgement Samuel quotation of Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 09:13:43PM -0400:

> The mind boggles at what level of dreck could make that lame cat story
> seem stellar by comparison. Perhaps some kind of
> angels/wishes/smiles/frowns/pass-this-along-to-your-friends
> agglomerates?

Angels.
http://www.ilovebacon.com/060602/a.shtml

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From brian at collab.net  Mon Jun 10 10:09:53 2002
From: brian at collab.net (Brian Behlendorf)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Chinese OS 
In-Reply-To: <200206100416.g5A4GRSI027402@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <20020610100913.D56029-100000@yez.hyperreal.org>

On Mon, 10 Jun 2002 Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
> Not at all.  I'm merely proposing a first-time-ever actual productive
> use for an AI Koan, before they get sold off as surplus and fall into
> the wrong hands.  Imagine the damage Microsoft could do if they got
> hold of one....

"Debugging before enlightenment, debugging after enlightenment".

Brian




From dep at linuxandmain.com  Mon Jun 10 11:11:09 2002
From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Chinese OS
In-Reply-To: <20020610100913.D56029-100000@yez.hyperreal.org>
References: <20020610100913.D56029-100000@yez.hyperreal.org>
Message-ID: <200206101411.09317.dep@linuxandmain.com>

begin  Brian Behlendorf's  quote:

| "Debugging before enlightenment, debugging after enlightenment".

ah yes. page 16 of "quotations from chairman carsten tse haitzler."
-- 
dep

http://www.linuxandmain.com -- outside the box, barely within the 
envelope, and no animated paperclip anywhere.


From crackdonkey at donkeyshow.org  Mon Jun 10 11:32:39 2002
From: crackdonkey at donkeyshow.org (#2 of Berkeley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe
 notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020610042659.GU3275@zork.net>
Message-ID: <Running.Gag.4.33.0206101132010.11858-100000@vax.hanford.org>

On Sun, 9 Jun 2002, Nick Moffitt wrote:

> I wonder how long this twit was on before Snatcher scared him off.
>
> I bet you snatcher has this list filtered out.

I hope not.  Then he would miss this:

http://www.apple.com/switch/



From smcmahon at eiv.com  Mon Jun 10 11:59:49 2002
From: smcmahon at eiv.com (Shawn McMahon)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Armed Jews to patrol Brooklyn
Message-ID: <20020610185949.GA16067@eiv.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

The tinfoil-hat crowd's heads are gonna explode:

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/49967.htm

 Would-be vigilante residents, armed with guns and bats, will patrol
Jewish neighborhoods in Brooklyn, after a terror suspect said the areas
were once targeted for attack, a right-wing rabbi said last night.


- -- 
Shawn McMahon                    | McMahon's Laws of Linux support:
http://www.eiv.com               | 1) There's more than one way to do it
AIM: spmcmahonfedex, smcmahoneiv | 2) Somebody thinks your way is wrong
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iEYEARECAAYFAj0E9yQACgkQEcl9bQ0RMt0rAACePj5CJ+m5+ki+mFTCIwAC6FO3
Bd4An2Pj7wIbAoFweaauE7A+oWEJhCIw
=EWkF
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Mon Jun 10 12:02:23 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <Running.Gag.4.33.0206101132010.11858-100000@vax.hanford.org>
References: <20020610042659.GU3275@zork.net> <Running.Gag.4.33.0206101132010.11858-100000@vax.hanford.org>
Message-ID: <20020610190222.GF936@zork.net>

begin  #2 of Berkeley  quotation:
> I hope not.  Then he would miss this:
> 
> http://www.apple.com/switch/

http://www.apple.com/switch/stories/index3.html
> The Shortest Answer
> 
> Unix in a pretty box that has a killer desktop! Simple as that.
> 
> -- JH

Gee, that wouldn't happen to be J*K*H, now would it?

	REAL STORIES FROM PAID APPLE EMPLOYEES.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Mon Jun 10 12:31:27 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Armed Jews to patrol Brooklyn
In-Reply-To: <20020610185949.GA16067@eiv.com>
References: <20020610185949.GA16067@eiv.com>
Message-ID: <20020610193127.GG936@zork.net>

begin  Shawn McMahon  quotation:
> The tinfoil-hat crowd's heads are gonna explode:
> 
> http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/49967.htm

http://www.jpfo.org/

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu  Mon Jun 10 12:36:45 2002
From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Armed Jews to patrol Brooklyn 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 10 Jun 2002 14:59:49 EDT."
             <20020610185949.GA16067@eiv.com> 
References: <20020610185949.GA16067@eiv.com>
Message-ID: <200206101936.g5AJajYH012608@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>

On Mon, 10 Jun 2002 14:59:49 EDT, Shawn McMahon <smcmahon@eiv.com>  said:

>  Would-be vigilante residents, armed with guns and bats, will patrol
> Jewish neighborhoods in Brooklyn, after a terror suspect said the areas
> were once targeted for attack, a right-wing rabbi said last night.

Ahh.. but are they allowed to patrol on the Sabbath?


From joakim at avmaria.com  Mon Jun 10 11:59:50 2002
From: joakim at avmaria.com (Joakim Ziegler)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Armed Jews to patrol Brooklyn
In-Reply-To: <200206101936.g5AJajYH012608@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
References: <20020610185949.GA16067@eiv.com> 
	<200206101936.g5AJajYH012608@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <1023735592.1650.12.camel@deck>

On Mon, 2002-06-10 at 14:36, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Jun 2002 14:59:49 EDT, Shawn McMahon <smcmahon@eiv.com>  said:
 
>>  Would-be vigilante residents, armed with guns and bats, will patrol
>> Jewish neighborhoods in Brooklyn, after a terror suspect said the areas
>> were once targeted for attack, a right-wing rabbi said last night.
 
> Ahh.. but are they allowed to patrol on the Sabbath?

Actually, the article states that non-orthodox Jews will patrol on the
Sabbath. These guys are from the Jewish Defense League, by the way, the
nutjobs founded by Rabbi Kahane.

-- 
  The Private Joakim Ziegler - Not Speaking For Anyone But Myself
ziegler@e.fix.no - http://www.avmaria.com - Radagast@Undernet&GIMPnet
http://www.avmaria.com/ - http://www.fix.no/ - http://www.gnome.org/
		



From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu  Mon Jun 10 13:02:56 2002
From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Armed Jews to patrol Brooklyn 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 10 Jun 2002 13:59:50 CDT."
             <1023735592.1650.12.camel@deck> 
References: <20020610185949.GA16067@eiv.com> <200206101936.g5AJajYH012608@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
            <1023735592.1650.12.camel@deck>
Message-ID: <200206102002.g5AK2uYH013101@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>

On Mon, 10 Jun 2002 13:59:50 CDT, Joakim Ziegler <joakim@avmaria.com>  said:

> Actually, the article states that non-orthodox Jews will patrol on the
> Sabbath. These guys are from the Jewish Defense League, by the way, the
> nutjobs founded by Rabbi Kahane.

Great.  Just what the world needs - nutjobs that think things through.


From junasts at subdimension.com  Mon Jun 10 13:12:30 2002
From: junasts at subdimension.com (Last Judgement Samuel)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Muahahahahahahaha
Message-ID: <87it4qsxjl.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

[OK, I know nobody's in Montreal, but what the hell? Maybe you know
someone who is. --LJS]

**********************************************************************
**********************************************************************
**    M O Z I L L A   D O T   P A R T Y   D O T   M O N T R E A L   **
**                    D O T   Q C   D O T   C A                     **
**********************************************************************
**********************************************************************

[[[WHAT]]]

In a simultaneous f?te with thousands of Mozillistas around the globe,
Montr?al lovers of Free Software and an open Web will be convening
this week to celebrate the release of Mozilla 1.0.0, the Free Software
event of the year.

[[[WHEN]]]

This Wednesday, June 12th, 2002, from 9PM til closing.

[[[WHERE]]]

The upstairs salon of
Bar Saint-Sulpice
1680 St. D?nis
Montr?al, QC

[[[HOW]]]

The closest M?tro station is Berri-UQAM, a few blocks south on
St. D?nis. You can find other directions, including a map, here:

    http://www.montrealplus.ca/profile/125553/

[[[WHY]]]

Because Montr?al is a city that loves a party. And because we had one
of the first Mozilla satellite parties, and because it feels good to
be Free.

[[[BRING]]]

        * Yourself
        * Your friends
        * Your will to have a good time
        * Enough money to keep yourself in beer or beverage of choice
        * Your notebook computer running Mozilla + 802.11b card (no
          promises of connectivity, though)

[[[EXPECT]]]

        * Fun Free People
        * Noise
        * Good times

[[[DON'T EXPECT]]]

        * Fun free drinks
        * Food
        * Gimmes

[[[NEED]]]

If you feel a need to help make this party happen, these things are
desperately needed:

        * A translation of this announcment into decent French!
        * PUBLICITY! Send this announcement to as many people or
          mailing lists you know who could be interested
        * Web space for this announcement, follow-ups
        * Some kind of wireless uplink for on-the-spot updates on the
          night of the party (there's no Internet access at
          Saint-Sulpice)
        * An 802.11b base station (dreaming, I know)
        * Free Software schwag
        * Mozilla-themed schwag
        * Mozilla-themed decorations
        
[[[CONTACT]]]

For further questions or offers of help, please contact Evan Prodromou
(evan@prodromou.san-francisco.ca.us) at 514-244-1809. Don't let the
email address fool you -- I'm right here in Montr?al.

[[[RSVP]]]

We're planning for a lot of people, but it'd be good to know sooner
rather than later if we're going to grow out of the room. So please
RSVP to the above address if you think you might make it.

-- 
+++ Last Judgement Samuel + junasts@subdimension.com + 0x8D3E92DE +++


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Mon Jun 10 13:14:25 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:18 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Armed Jews to patrol Brooklyn
In-Reply-To: <200206102002.g5AK2uYH013101@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
References: <20020610185949.GA16067@eiv.com> <200206101936.g5AJajYH012608@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <1023735592.1650.12.camel@deck> <200206102002.g5AK2uYH013101@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <20020610201425.GH936@zork.net>

begin  Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu  quotation:
> Great.  Just what the world needs - nutjobs that think things
> through.

	As they beat up thugs like the guardian angels, others from
their posse will gather around in concentric rings arguing about the
merits of the beating and citing interpretations from the inner
rings.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From nick at zork.net  Mon Jun 10 13:28:34 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] ha ha it sucks to be in california
Message-ID: <20020610202834.GI936@zork.net>

http://news.lycos.com/news/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=431312
> The federal government spent $62 million on a building to store and
> treat low-level radioactive waste at a California nuclear weapons
> laboratory, then decided the structure wasn't secure enough.
> 
> So where is the waste kept now? Under tents.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From jeremym at loonix.org  Mon Jun 10 14:03:42 2002
From: jeremym at loonix.org (Jeremy McLeod)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Which one would you choose?
Message-ID: <20020610210342.GJ22579@pug.chroot.net>

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020610/od_nm/election_dc_1
> Czech voters are having to make some hard election choices -- should
> they support the party offering free alcohol or the one using topless
> women in its campaign? 

-- 
Jeremy McLeod
jeremym@loonix.org


From nick at zork.net  Mon Jun 10 14:26:15 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification]
Message-ID: <20020610212615.GK936@zork.net>

Go away.  We don't need any more high-tech fru-fru consultant types.

----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net -----

jspence@lightconsulting.com has been successfully subscribed to
CrackMonkey.



----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From junasts at subdimension.com  Mon Jun 10 14:29:33 2002
From: junasts at subdimension.com (Last Judgement Samuel)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Not only are they not giving refunds...
In-Reply-To: <20020610080406.C31647@zgp.org> (Don Marti's message of "Mon,
 10 Jun 2002 08:04:06 -0700")
References: <20020607190231.GI24561@zork.net> <20020607123440.A19352@zgp.org>
	<200206071651.44014.dep@linuxandmain.com>
	<oqy9donq7s.fsf@balthasar.nat> <20020610080406.C31647@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <87elfe960y.fsf@gaff.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

>>>>> "DM" == Don Marti <dmarti@zgp.org> writes:

    >> I printed my I-129 essay for free at Kinkos.

    DM> But what about Artists???  Do you ever even think what all
    DM> this high-technology foofaraw is doing to Artists???

After all, before the advent of digital media, the entire
entertainment industry was instrumented for the health, welfare, and
comfort of individual artists.

                                          -- Last Judgement Samuel

-- 
+++ Last Judgement Samuel + junasts@subdimension.com + 0x8D3E92DE +++


From jspence at lightconsulting.com  Mon Jun 10 14:30:39 2002
From: jspence at lightconsulting.com (Jason Spence)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020610212615.GK936@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 02:26:15PM -0700
References: <20020610212615.GK936@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020610143039.D62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com>

On Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 02:26:15PM -0700, Nick Moffitt said:

> Go away.  We don't need any more high-tech fru-fru consultant types.

I'm not a high-tech fru-fru consultant type, I just play one on TV!

-- 
 - Jason

Bore, n.:
	A guy who wraps up a two-minute idea in a two-hour vocabulary.
		-- Walter Winchell


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Mon Jun 10 14:46:05 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020610143039.D62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com>
References: <20020610212615.GK936@zork.net> <20020610143039.D62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <20020610214605.GL936@zork.net>

begin  Jason Spence  quotation:
> I'm not a high-tech fru-fru consultant type, I just play one on TV!

	Let me guess.  You pulled that one out of your high school
annual?

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From jspence at lightconsulting.com  Mon Jun 10 14:56:07 2002
From: jspence at lightconsulting.com (Jason Spence)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020610214605.GL936@zork.net>; from monkeymaster@crackmonkey.org on Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 02:46:05PM -0700
References: <20020610212615.GK936@zork.net> <20020610143039.D62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020610214605.GL936@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020610145607.E62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com>

On Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 02:46:05PM -0700, Monkey Master and Prince
Regent of San Francisco shat his pants and:

> begin  Jason Spence  quotation:
> > I'm not a high-tech fru-fru consultant type, I just play one on TV!
> 
> 	Let me guess.  You pulled that one out of your high school
> annual?

Kiss my ass, vi user.

-- 
 - Jason

There are very few personal problems that cannot be solved through a
suitable application of high explosives.


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Mon Jun 10 15:10:05 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020610145607.E62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com>
References: <20020610212615.GK936@zork.net> <20020610143039.D62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020610214605.GL936@zork.net> <20020610145607.E62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <20020610221005.GM936@zork.net>

begin  Jason Spence  quotation:
> > 	Let me guess.  You pulled that one out of your high school
> > annual?
> 
> Kiss my ass, vi user.

	Oh my, this one's trying to show its fangs now.  How adorable.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From jspence at lightconsulting.com  Mon Jun 10 15:16:27 2002
From: jspence at lightconsulting.com (Jason Spence)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020610221005.GM936@zork.net>; from monkeymaster@crackmonkey.org on Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 03:10:05PM -0700
References: <20020610212615.GK936@zork.net> <20020610143039.D62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020610214605.GL936@zork.net> <20020610145607.E62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020610221005.GM936@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020610151627.F62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com>

On Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 03:10:05PM -0700, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco developed
a new theory of relativity and: 
> begin  Jason Spence  quotation:
> > > 	Let me guess.  You pulled that one out of your high school
> > > annual?
> > 
> > Kiss my ass, vi user.
> 
> 	Oh my, this one's trying to show its fangs now.  How adorable.

Thanks, Nick.

-- 
 - Jason

A sine curve goes off to infinity or at least the end of the blackboard
		-- Prof. Steiner


From nick at zork.net  Mon Jun 10 16:57:29 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification]
Message-ID: <20020610235728.GN936@zork.net>

Crazy Innuit freaks!  You're in it with the Icelanders!

----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net -----

ashankar@nls.ac.in has been successfully subscribed to CrackMonkey.



----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From dmarti at zgp.org  Mon Jun 10 17:23:43 2002
From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020610190222.GF936@zork.net>; from monkeymaster@crackmonkey.org on Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 12:02:23PM -0700
References: <20020610042659.GU3275@zork.net> <Running.Gag.4.33.0206101132010.11858-100000@vax.hanford.org> <20020610190222.GF936@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020610172343.F8595@zgp.org>

begin Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco quotation of Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 12:02:23PM -0700:

> Gee, that wouldn't happen to be J*K*H, now would it?

"Apple has done a spectacular job creating what I never thought
was possible a Unix that my girlfriend can use."
http://www.apple.com/switch/stories/index3.html

And what have we learned today, boys and girls?

(1) Apple customers insult women's intelligence

(2) Only dumb women date Apple users

(3) All of the above

-- 
Don Marti                                          
http://zgp.org/~dmarti                       Help spread accurate information 
dmarti@zgp.org                      about Xenu and the Church of Scientology.
KG6INA           <a href="http://xenu.net/">Scientology</a> on your web site.


From jspence at lightconsulting.com  Mon Jun 10 17:27:06 2002
From: jspence at lightconsulting.com (Jason Spence)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey unsubscribe notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020610172343.F8595@zgp.org>; from dmarti@zgp.org on Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 05:23:43PM -0700
References: <20020610042659.GU3275@zork.net> <Running.Gag.4.33.0206101132010.11858-100000@vax.hanford.org> <20020610190222.GF936@zork.net> <20020610172343.F8595@zgp.org>
Message-ID: <20020610172705.B70039@shaitan.lightconsulting.com>

On Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 05:23:43PM -0700, Don Marti developed
a new theory of relativity and: 
> begin Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco quotation of Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 12:02:23PM -0700:
> 
> > Gee, that wouldn't happen to be J*K*H, now would it?
> 
> "Apple has done a spectacular job creating what I never thought
> was possible a Unix that my girlfriend can use."
> http://www.apple.com/switch/stories/index3.html
> 
> And what have we learned today, boys and girls?
> 
> (1) Apple customers insult women's intelligence
> 
> (2) Only dumb women date Apple users
> 
> (3) All of the above

(4) There are less lonely, pathetic UNIX-addicted women than men?

-- 
 - Jason

Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist ought to have his head examined.
		-- Samuel Goldwyn


From nick at zork.net  Mon Jun 10 18:38:07 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] NASA is sux
Message-ID: <20020611013807.GO936@zork.net>

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20020610145800378-0400%40news3.newscene.com
> Well it arrived today. I was summoned to SAIC offices in beltsville,
> and told that for the high crime of USENET posting with using the
> return email address of shark.gsfc.nasa.gov, I would have the choice
> of resigning or being fired.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From nick at zork.net  Mon Jun 10 18:51:01 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [Seth-Trips] Partial solar eclipse today
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.10.10206101933030.28108-100000@shimi.swcp.com>
References: <20020610201654.GM17498@zork.net> <Pine.GSO.4.10.10206101933030.28108-100000@shimi.swcp.com>
Message-ID: <20020611015101.GP936@zork.net>

begin  Praveen Sinha  quotation:
> The people in my company dragged out UV-resistant glasses and
> mirror, so I got a killer-rad view of like half the sun being
> blocked out. 
> 
> Weird!!!  So this is the only eclipse viewable in California for the
> next DECADE?

	I walked down to Zachary's fine chicago pizza in Oakland, and
hung out with the kids who work there.  They had a cardboard box that
they were poking holes in.

	I showed them all the shadows cast by the trees, and how there
were myriad crescent suns made by the pinpoints cast between the
leaves.  

	I think everyone else in the area thought I was on something,
since I kept staring intently at shadows.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From ron at vnetworx.net  Mon Jun 10 21:27:32 2002
From: ron at vnetworx.net (Subjugator of Pt. Jeff & Conqueror  of Long Island)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Armed Jews to patrol Brooklyn
In-Reply-To: <20020610185949.GA16067@eiv.com>
References: <20020610185949.GA16067@eiv.com>
Message-ID: <1023769653.1116.1476.camel@amory>

On Mon, 2002-06-10 at 14:59, Shawn McMahon wrote:
> http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/49967.htm

Those are just the CEO's shock troops on the streets, knocking on doors
and handing out Fair Use pamphlets.  Don't believe everything you read.

-- 
The CEO speaks: http://www.nylxs.com/radio/2nd_radio_show.mp3




From simm at zork.net  Mon Jun 10 23:03:48 2002
From: simm at zork.net (Simm Al-Aekrib)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Armed Jews to patrol Brooklyn
In-Reply-To: <1023735592.1650.12.camel@deck>
References: <20020610185949.GA16067@eiv.com> <200206101936.g5AJajYH012608@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <1023735592.1650.12.camel@deck>
Message-ID: <20020611060348.GA12436@zork.net>

begin  Joakim Ziegler  quotation:
> On Mon, 2002-06-10 at 14:36, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
> > On Mon, 10 Jun 2002 14:59:49 EDT, Shawn McMahon <smcmahon@eiv.com>  said:
> Actually, the article states that non-orthodox Jews will patrol on the
> Sabbath. These guys are from the Jewish Defense League, by the way, the
> nutjobs founded by Rabbi Kahane.
> 

Yeah, these are the guys who's leader tried to blow up that mosque and
a congressman's office in CA. I wonder how they determine who deserves
a good old vigilante beating.

-- 
Simm Al-Aekrib                          |   Optical Illusion Fun!!
"I have a prodigious quantity of mind;  |        )----------(
it takes me as much as a week           |        (----------) 
sometimes to make it up." -- Mark Twain |  Which line is longer???





From ron at vnetworx.net  Tue Jun 11 05:30:20 2002
From: ron at vnetworx.net (Ron Guerin)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Which one would you choose?
In-Reply-To: <20020610210342.GJ22579@pug.chroot.net>
References: <20020610210342.GJ22579@pug.chroot.net>
Message-ID: <1023798621.1426.20387.camel@amory>

On Mon, 2002-06-10 at 17:03, Jeremy McLeod wrote:
> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020610/od_nm/election_dc_1
> > Czech voters are having to make some hard election choices -- should
> > they support the party offering free alcohol or the one using topless
> > women in its campaign? 

Everyone knows the real value is the combination of alcohol and topless
women.  Much better than the sum of the parts.

Typical politicians, they just don't get it.






From pgl at yoyo.org  Tue Jun 11 07:47:05 2002
From: pgl at yoyo.org (Peter Lowe)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Which one would you choose?
In-Reply-To: <20020610210342.GJ22579@pug.chroot.net>
References: <20020610210342.GJ22579@pug.chroot.net>
Message-ID: <20020611144704.GA1062@yoyo.org>

Neither, they were both rough. Slivovice is The Devil's drink, and what
do you really expect if you organise topless girls at 5 minutes notice?

-- 
Litres of beer drunk in the Czech Republic so far this year: 7881496.94

http://prague.tv/toys/beer/


From nick at zork.net  Tue Jun 11 10:46:24 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Register baby
Message-ID: <20020611174624.GA936@zork.net>

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25659.html
> The AdTI's very weak and poorly-researched paper opens no debate. It
> simply confirms that Microsoft paid AdTI to come up with something
> -- anything -- to stem the growing adoption of open-source
> (especially GPL'd) software by business and government. Let's take a
> look at the paper in detail. 

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From ron at vnetworx.net  Tue Jun 11 10:47:47 2002
From: ron at vnetworx.net (Ron Guerin)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] CrackMonkey infiltrates Brooklyn!
Message-ID: <1023817668.2738.563.camel@amory>

On Tue, 2002-06-11 at 13:31, Ruben Safir wrote:
> On Tue, 2002-06-11 at 13:21, Jay Sulzberger wrote:
> > 
> > THE MAN WHO IS TIRED OF CRACKMONKEY IS TIRED OF BROOKLYN.
> 
> OK
> 
> I'm lost how crackmonkey even got into this thread.
> 
> Ruben





From smcmahon at eiv.com  Tue Jun 11 12:00:46 2002
From: smcmahon at eiv.com (Shawn McMahon)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Canadian target practice
Message-ID: <20020611190046.GA20554@eiv.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Nick's right, they're gonna invade us any day now.  They can shoot from
clear across the border:

http://www.nationalpost.com/search/story.html?f=/stories/20020423/3932.html&qs=sniper

"During the next four days of fighting, the Newfoundland corporal set
what is believed to be a record for a long-distance shot under combat
conditions, hitting an enemy gunman at a distance of 2,430 metres."


- -- 
Shawn McMahon                    | McMahon's Laws of Linux support:
http://www.eiv.com               | 1) There's more than one way to do it
AIM: spmcmahonfedex, smcmahoneiv | 2) Somebody thinks your way is wrong
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iEYEARECAAYFAj0GSN4ACgkQEcl9bQ0RMt20MQCeLOlH3dCspOpImcaxYh6x3Gkv
M0wAn2Wbdth/Iv2OR4hBUJpPqg3XX9GY
=tHI8
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From crackdonkey at donkeyshow.org  Tue Jun 11 12:34:53 2002
From: crackdonkey at donkeyshow.org (#2 of Berkeley)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Canadian target practice
In-Reply-To: <20020611190046.GA20554@eiv.com>
Message-ID: <Running.Gag.4.33.0206111234320.6599-100000@vax.hanford.org>

On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Shawn McMahon wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Nick's right, they're gonna invade us any day now.  They can shoot from
> clear across the border:

So can I, if I'm close enough.



From dep at linuxandmain.com  Tue Jun 11 12:38:33 2002
From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Canadian target practice
In-Reply-To: <20020611190046.GA20554@eiv.com>
References: <20020611190046.GA20554@eiv.com>
Message-ID: <200206111538.33669.dep@linuxandmain.com>

begin  Shawn McMahon's  quote:

| "During the next four days of fighting, the Newfoundland corporal
| set what is believed to be a record for a long-distance shot under
| combat conditions, hitting an enemy gunman at a distance of 2,430
| metres."

as usual, the unremarkable nation of canadia overstates its 
accomplishments; gysgt. carlos hathcock, usmc, easily outdid this 
newfie poseur, whacking an nva general behind the lines.

canadia leads the world only in tubby, middle-aged couples who 
"swing," though "rut" with other people's spouses is probably more 
accurate.
-- 
dep

http://www.linuxandmain.com -- outside the box, barely within the 
envelope, and no animated paperclip anywhere.


From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu  Tue Jun 11 12:54:02 2002
From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian D. Hicks)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Canadian target practice
In-Reply-To: <20020611190046.GA20554@eiv.com>
References: <20020611190046.GA20554@eiv.com>
Message-ID: <20020611195402.GR14322@8ball.wox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Boomtime, the 16th of Confusion, 3168, Shawn McMahon wrote:
> http://www.nationalpost.com/search/story.html?f=/stories/20020423/3932.html&qs=sniper
> 
> "During the next four days of fighting, the Newfoundland corporal set
> what is believed to be a record for a long-distance shot under combat
> conditions, hitting an enemy gunman at a distance of 2,430 metres."

What the hell are Canadians doing in combat conditions?

- -- 
Brian Hicks <http://eight.dhs.org> <hick0142@umn.edu> <PGP:0xADDD1F16> 
	This message would self-destruct in 10 seconds, except I'm 
	   not that clever.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE9BlVXjLHcIq3dHxYRAjJgAJ4hk0dy9gBDWyahYR71u4qklUnIIACfXAjy
3LGQfFPoVhrYqEFoR9UjCho=
=TqdE
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Tue Jun 11 13:01:30 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Canadian target practice
In-Reply-To: <20020611195402.GR14322@8ball.wox.org>
References: <20020611190046.GA20554@eiv.com> <20020611195402.GR14322@8ball.wox.org>
Message-ID: <20020611200130.GC936@zork.net>

begin  Brian D. Hicks  quotation:
> What the hell are Canadians doing in combat conditions?

	Most likely crying for mother.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From jeremym at loonix.org  Tue Jun 11 13:21:25 2002
From: jeremym at loonix.org (Jeremy McLeod)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Canadian target practice
In-Reply-To: <20020611195402.GR14322@8ball.wox.org>
References: <20020611190046.GA20554@eiv.com> <20020611195402.GR14322@8ball.wox.org>
Message-ID: <20020611202125.GC8603@pug.chroot.net>

On Tue Jun 11, 2002 at 02:54:02PM -0500, Brian D. Hicks wrote:
>What the hell are Canadians doing in combat conditions?

Cannon fodder, what else?

-- 
Jeremy McLeod
jeremym@loonix.org


From squinky at dasbistro.com  Tue Jun 11 13:31:52 2002
From: squinky at dasbistro.com (Not Erik)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Canadian target practice
In-Reply-To: <20020611195402.GR14322@8ball.wox.org>
References: <20020611190046.GA20554@eiv.com> <20020611195402.GR14322@8ball.wox.org>
Message-ID: <20020611203152.GA14498@dasbistro.com>

On Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 02:54:02PM -0500, Brian D. Hicks wrote:
> On Boomtime, the 16th of Confusion, 3168, Shawn McMahon wrote:
> > http://www.nationalpost.com/search/story.html?f=/stories/20020423/3932.html&qs=sniper
> > 
> > "During the next four days of fighting, the Newfoundland corporal set
> > what is believed to be a record for a long-distance shot under combat
> > conditions, hitting an enemy gunman at a distance of 2,430 metres."
> 
> What the hell are Canadians doing in combat conditions?

Providing much-needed maple syrup and flapjacks for the Coalition
troops.

And those little roundy ham-things that go on Eggs Benedict.



From claviola at ax.net.br  Tue Jun 11 13:13:26 2002
From: claviola at ax.net.br (Carlos Laviola)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Canadian target practice
In-Reply-To: <20020611200130.GC936@zork.net>
References: <20020611190046.GA20554@eiv.com> <20020611195402.GR14322@8ball.wox.org> <20020611200130.GC936@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020611201326.GB1348@alternex.com.br>

On Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 01:01:30PM -0700, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote:
> begin  Brian D. Hicks  quotation:
> > What the hell are Canadians doing in combat conditions?
> 
> 	Most likely crying for mother.

Leave them alone, eh!

-- 
Carlos Laviola <claviola@ax.net.br>
AlterNex S/A - (21) 2515-0500


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Tue Jun 11 13:42:37 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Canadian target practice
In-Reply-To: <20020611201326.GB1348@alternex.com.br>
References: <20020611190046.GA20554@eiv.com> <20020611195402.GR14322@8ball.wox.org> <20020611200130.GC936@zork.net> <20020611201326.GB1348@alternex.com.br>
Message-ID: <20020611204237.GE936@zork.net>

begin  Carlos Laviola  quotation:
> Leave them alone, eh!

	ha ha reals

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From jv at zork.net  Tue Jun 11 14:34:58 2002
From: jv at zork.net (Juggler Vain)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: No one started The fire (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] Armed Jews to patrol Brooklyn)
In-Reply-To: <20020610201425.GH936@zork.net>
References: <20020610185949.GA16067@eiv.com> <200206101936.g5AJajYH012608@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <1023735592.1650.12.camel@deck> <200206102002.g5AK2uYH013101@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20020610201425.GH936@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020611213458.GE22379@zork.net>

begin  Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco quotation:
> begin  Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu  quotation:
> > Great.  Just what the world needs - nutjobs that think things
> > through.
> 	As they beat up thugs like the guardian angels, others from
> their posse will gather around in concentric rings arguing about the
> merits of the beating and citing interpretations from the inner
> rings.
[...]
> 	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
>         ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)

The Fire, though, sustains a human-factor constituency across many
ideologies... from priesthood to hoodlum, varyingly devoted to God in
Fire.  Rings' geometry appeals to point-logic flatlanders.  -jv


From jv at zork.net  Tue Jun 11 15:46:44 2002
From: jv at zork.net (Juggler Vain)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: Schroedinger's Innocence, Justice, .us style box-ing (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] Armed Jews to patrol Brooklyn)
In-Reply-To: <20020611060348.GA12436@zork.net>
References: <20020610185949.GA16067@eiv.com> <200206101936.g5AJajYH012608@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <1023735592.1650.12.camel@deck> <20020611060348.GA12436@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020611224644.GF22379@zork.net>

begin  Simm Al-Aekrib quotation:
> begin  Joakim Ziegler  quotation:
> > On Mon, 2002-06-10 at 14:36, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
> > > On Mon, 10 Jun 2002 14:59:49 EDT, Shawn McMahon <smcmahon@eiv.com>  said:
> > Actually, the article states that non-orthodox Jews will patrol on the
> > Sabbath. These guys are from the Jewish Defense League, by the way, the
> > nutjobs founded by Rabbi Kahane.
> Yeah, these are the guys who's leader tried to blow up that mosque and
> a congressman's office in CA. I wonder how they determine who deserves
> a good old vigilante beating.

Visitors to <jdl.org> receive this important bonus screen:  

"The U.S. government has charged Irv Rubin and Earl Krugel with
conspiring to bomb a mosque in Culver City and Congressman Darrell
Issa's office. We believe that these charges are false and that both of
these men will be acquitted once a full and fair airing of the facts is
presented in a court of law.

"Here is the truth about this case:..."

One of Wise Guy's mini-series featured a later-to-become Senator
Whoosits playing a sham-racist Barnum, whose speil inspired an acolyte
to homicide... imagine, that neither Thomas Blanton, "Dynamite Bob"
Chambliss, Herman Cash, nor Bobby Frank Cherry actually bombed
Birmingham's Sixteenth Street Baptist Church... 

... that agents of provocation might've scoped out potential chumps;
and, finding an obvious band of notorious blowhards, set them up...

... could be Irv & Friends merely provided cover for agents of
provocation... 

... may be Nassar's Death to Zionism were mere bluster; may be he sent
love-letters to .is... even tipping .eg plan for attack... allowing .is
to call .us to call .su to call .eg to forbid it... may be candor
ensured yet another rash act, leading to decades of belligerent military
occupation... but I wander.  -jv... agent of cofusion


From jv at zork.net  Tue Jun 11 16:48:28 2002
From: jv at zork.net (Juggler Vain)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: Recapitulation (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] Armed Jews to patrol Brooklyn)
In-Reply-To: <1023769653.1116.1476.camel@amory>
References: <20020610185949.GA16067@eiv.com> <1023769653.1116.1476.camel@amory>
Message-ID: <20020611234828.GI22379@zork.net>

begin  Subjugator of Pt. Jeff & Conqueror  of Long Island quotation:
> On Mon, 2002-06-10 at 14:59, Shawn McMahon wrote:
> > http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/49967.htm
> Those are just the CEO's shock troops on the streets, knocking on doors
> and handing out Fair Use pamphlets.  Don't believe everything you read.
> The CEO speaks: http://www.nylxs.com/radio/2nd_radio_show.mp3

Anti-Fascist Laws of 1940 became anti-Communist by '49... RICO...
recycle, reuse, repress.  -jv... relative period, angle of precession


From carton at Ivy.NET  Mon Jun 10 20:24:35 2002
From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Chinese OS
In-Reply-To: <20020610042956.GP14322@8ball.wox.org>
 (Brian D. Hicks's message of "Sun, 9 Jun 2002 23:29:56 -0500")
References: <3CF4B493@mail.djuice.co.nz>
 <200206090501.g5951wSI009982@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
 <oqzny4nqfu.fsf@balthasar.nat>
 <200206100416.g5A4GRSI027402@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
 <20020610042956.GP14322@8ball.wox.org>
Message-ID: <oqk7p6o5u3.fsf@balthasar.nat>

>>>>> "bdh" == Brian D Hicks <hick0142@tc.umn.edu> writes:

   bdh> You're like the cheap Hong Kong version of that soze freak.

wo, man.  That's harsh, even for crackmonkey.

-- 
It's about coming up, and staying on top, 
and screaming 187 on a motherfucking cop.
		-- Sublime


From carton at Ivy.NET  Mon Jun 10 20:50:35 2002
From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: [Seth-Trips] Partial solar eclipse today
In-Reply-To: <20020611015101.GP936@zork.net>
 (Nick Moffitt's message of "Mon, 10 Jun 2002 18:51:01 -0700")
References: <20020610201654.GM17498@zork.net>
 <Pine.GSO.4.10.10206101933030.28108-100000@shimi.swcp.com>
 <20020611015101.GP936@zork.net>
Message-ID: <oqbsaio4ms.fsf@balthasar.nat>

>>>>> "mm" == Nick Moffitt <nick@zork.net> writes:

    mm> 	I showed them all the shadows cast by the trees, and
    mm> how there were myriad crescent suns made by the pinpoints cast
    mm> between the leaves.

yikes.  This is almost as autistic as Ada Veen's lame-ass game in
_Ada_, where she would scoop out a hole in the sand near a leaf's
shadow and wait for it to make some 3D illusion as the sun moved.

-- 
Do you have any brown sugar?
		-- Keiko Nishi


From jv at zork.net  Tue Jun 11 17:11:15 2002
From: jv at zork.net (Juggler Vain)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: Thanks to you both (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification])
In-Reply-To: <20020610151627.F62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com>
References: <20020610212615.GK936@zork.net> <20020610143039.D62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020610214605.GL936@zork.net> <20020610145607.E62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020610221005.GM936@zork.net> <20020610151627.F62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <20020612001114.GJ22379@zork.net>

begin  Jason Spence quotation:
> On Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 03:10:05PM -0700, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco developed
> a new theory of relativity and: 
> > begin  Jason Spence  quotation:

[... Jason had allowed that he plays a character not his natural self on
television...]

> > > > 	Let me guess.  You pulled that one out of your high school
> > > > annual?
> > > Kiss my ass, vi user.
> > 	Oh my, this one's trying to show its fangs now.  How adorable.
> Thanks, Nick...

Kirk v Picard, Spock v Data, vi v emacs... matchmaker makes cage &
match... twiddle our species for musical talent... for general
numeracy... -jv... better for ?whom


From mwmiller at columbus.rr.com  Tue Jun 11 17:37:02 2002
From: mwmiller at columbus.rr.com (mwmiller@columbus.rr.com)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [lgarfiel@students.depaul.edu: [Fwd: Cat's diary]]
In-Reply-To: <874rgc0wc8.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
References: <20020610002135.GA30633@movealong.org> <20020610004306.GO3275@zork.net> <874rgc0wc8.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
Message-ID: <20020612003702.GA20956@columbus.rr.com>

On Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 09:13:43PM -0400, Last Judgement Samuel
<junasts@subdimension.com> wrote:
> The mind boggles at what level of dreck could make that lame cat story
> seem stellar by comparison. Perhaps some kind of angels/wishes/smiles/
> frowns/pass-this-along-to-your-friends agglomerates?

Maybe that the cat story didn't involve helpfully sending him/her/it a
card using a "Send a Friend This Card!" button on a website/spamhaus
somewhere.
-- 
Matthew W. Miller -- mwmiller@columbus.rr.com


From squinky at dasbistro.com  Tue Jun 11 17:53:10 2002
From: squinky at dasbistro.com (Not Erik)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: Thanks to you both (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification])
In-Reply-To: <20020612001114.GJ22379@zork.net>
References: <20020610212615.GK936@zork.net> <20020610143039.D62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020610214605.GL936@zork.net> <20020610145607.E62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020610221005.GM936@zork.net> <20020610151627.F62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020612001114.GJ22379@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020612005310.GA26141@dasbistro.com>

On Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 05:11:15PM -0700, Juggler Vain wrote:
> > > > > 	Let me guess.  You pulled that one out of your high school
> > > > > annual?
> > > > Kiss my ass, vi user.
> > > 	Oh my, this one's trying to show its fangs now.  How adorable.
> > Thanks, Nick...
> 
> Kirk v Picard, Spock v Data, vi v emacs... matchmaker makes cage &
> match... twiddle our species for musical talent... for general
> numeracy... -jv... better for ?whom

I don't understand what this vi or emacs thing is.  Will someone
please explain?  Are they web browsers or something?  I use MS
Internet Explorer.  Someone told me I had to use wine to do that but I
told him Jesus didn't want me drinking wine.

PS Visual Studio .NET r0x!  W00!  C# 4-ever!



From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu  Tue Jun 11 18:14:36 2002
From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: Thanks to you both (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification]) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:53:10 PDT."
             <20020612005310.GA26141@dasbistro.com> 
References: <20020610212615.GK936@zork.net> <20020610143039.D62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020610214605.GL936@zork.net> <20020610145607.E62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020610221005.GM936@zork.net> <20020610151627.F62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020612001114.GJ22379@zork.net>
            <20020612005310.GA26141@dasbistro.com>
Message-ID: <200206120114.g5C1EaOg002429@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>

On Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:53:10 PDT, Not Erik <squinky@dasbistro.com>  said:

> I don't understand what this vi or emacs thing is.  Will someone
> please explain?  Are they web browsers or something?  I use MS
> Internet Explorer.  Someone told me I had to use wine to do that but I
> told him Jesus didn't want me drinking wine.

Hmm.. an IE user?  Then if you have to ask, you'd not understand the answer.
The concepts of both vi and emacs would be beyond you, as they are both
pieces of software designed to give you more control over what is going on
than to some script kiddie in a third-world country....


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Tue Jun 11 18:18:23 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: Thanks to you both (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification])
In-Reply-To: <200206120114.g5C1EaOg002429@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
References: <20020610212615.GK936@zork.net> <20020610143039.D62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020610214605.GL936@zork.net> <20020610145607.E62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020610221005.GM936@zork.net> <20020610151627.F62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020612001114.GJ22379@zork.net> <20020612005310.GA26141@dasbistro.com> <200206120114.g5C1EaOg002429@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <20020612011823.GI936@zork.net>

begin  Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu  quotation:
> Hmm.. an IE user?  Then if you have to ask, you'd not understand the
> answer.  The concepts of both vi and emacs would be beyond you, as
> they are both pieces of software designed to give you more control
> over what is going on than to some script kiddie in a third-world
> country....

	YHBT
	YHL
	HAND

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From squinky at dasbistro.com  Tue Jun 11 18:22:53 2002
From: squinky at dasbistro.com (Not Erik)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: Thanks to you both (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification])
In-Reply-To: <200206120114.g5C1EaOg002429@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
References: <20020610212615.GK936@zork.net> <20020610143039.D62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020610214605.GL936@zork.net> <20020610145607.E62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020610221005.GM936@zork.net> <20020610151627.F62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020612001114.GJ22379@zork.net> <20020612005310.GA26141@dasbistro.com> <200206120114.g5C1EaOg002429@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <20020612012253.GA26928@dasbistro.com>

On Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 09:14:36PM -0400, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:53:10 PDT, Not Erik <squinky@dasbistro.com>  said:
> 
> > I don't understand what this vi or emacs thing is.  Will someone
> > please explain?  Are they web browsers or something?  I use MS
> > Internet Explorer.  Someone told me I had to use wine to do that but I
> > told him Jesus didn't want me drinking wine.
> 
> Hmm.. an IE user?  Then if you have to ask, you'd not understand the answer.
> The concepts of both vi and emacs would be beyond you, as they are both
> pieces of software designed to give you more control over what is going on
> than to some script kiddie in a third-world country....

Oh, they're like a Mac thing or something.

I don't know what you mean by 'script kiddie.'  If you're talking
about those weird people at the dance clubs with the wigs and funny
glasses, I think you have me confused with someone else.

As far as third-world countries, if everyone got a goddamned job, they
wouldn't be so poor, now would they?




From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu  Tue Jun 11 19:21:17 2002
From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian D. Hicks)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: Thanks to you both (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification])
In-Reply-To: <200206120114.g5C1EaOg002429@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
References: <20020610212615.GK936@zork.net> <20020610143039.D62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020610214605.GL936@zork.net> <20020610145607.E62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020610221005.GM936@zork.net> <20020610151627.F62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020612001114.GJ22379@zork.net> <20020612005310.GA26141@dasbistro.com> <200206120114.g5C1EaOg002429@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <20020612022117.GS14322@8ball.wox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Boomtime, the 16th of Confusion, 3168, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:53:10 PDT, Not Erik <squinky@dasbistro.com>  said:
> 
> > I don't understand what this vi or emacs thing is.  Will someone
> > please explain?  Are they web browsers or something?  I use MS
> > Internet Explorer.  Someone told me I had to use wine to do that but I
> > told him Jesus didn't want me drinking wine.
> 
> Hmm.. an IE user?  Then if you have to ask, you'd not understand the answer.
> The concepts of both vi and emacs would be beyond you, as they are both
> pieces of software designed to give you more control over what is going on
> than to some script kiddie in a third-world country....

You are so slow you'd have to speed up to stop.

- -- 
Brian Hicks <http://eight.dhs.org> <hick0142@umn.edu> <PGP:0xADDD1F16> 
	This message would self-destruct in 10 seconds, except I'm 
	   not that clever.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE9BrAcjLHcIq3dHxYRAkmYAKDuZxlaCyvuZxDi6TdL59APNNC6vACgt2RS
Kzj5+Ji2k1B/tgS3CIqRgQc=
=oL9N
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu  Tue Jun 11 19:32:34 2002
From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: Thanks to you both (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification]) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 11 Jun 2002 21:21:17 CDT."
             <20020612022117.GS14322@8ball.wox.org> 
References: <20020610212615.GK936@zork.net> <20020610143039.D62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020610214605.GL936@zork.net> <20020610145607.E62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020610221005.GM936@zork.net> <20020610151627.F62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020612001114.GJ22379@zork.net> <20020612005310.GA26141@dasbistro.com> <200206120114.g5C1EaOg002429@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
            <20020612022117.GS14322@8ball.wox.org>
Message-ID: <200206120232.g5C2WeOg003701@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>

On Tue, 11 Jun 2002 21:21:17 CDT, "Brian D. Hicks" <hick0142@tc.umn.edu>  said:

> You are so slow you'd have to speed up to stop.

If somebody didn't feed the trolls, they'd starve, and then they'd be
extinct, and future generations wouldn't know what they were.

Think of the children, man!


From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Jun 11 19:39:05 2002
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Groove to the Hacking Song
Message-ID: <20020612023905.GP19833@linuxmafia.com>

----- Forwarded message from Mel <mel@csn.ul.ie> -----

Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 03:31:50 +0100 (IST)
From: Mel <mel@csn.ul.ie>
To: ilug@linux.ie
Subject: [ILUG] Free Music and OGG

This might be considered off-topic, depends on your perspective. There was
a wallops message on irc.openprojects.net (lots of Linux projects there
including kernelnewbies and lkdp) 10 minutes ago in the late afternoon
(mel time, 3:23 in the morning for the rest of Ireland). They have started
streaming free music at http://linuxpowered.com:10000/wopn-modem.ogg (low
bitrate) and http://linuxpowered.com:10000/wopn-broadband.ogg . They have
put out a request for people to supply free music that can be streamed
out. For people out there who like free stuff and want to add music to the
mix, check it out. For amusment factor, they are currently playing the
Hacking Song.

#WOPN on irc.openprojects.net

-- 
Mel Gorman
MSc Student, University of Limerick
http://www.csn.ul.ie/~mel


-- 
Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie
http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information.
List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie

----- End forwarded message -----


From dep at linuxandmain.com  Tue Jun 11 19:57:37 2002
From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: Thanks to you both (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification])
In-Reply-To: <200206120232.g5C2WeOg003701@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
References: <20020610212615.GK936@zork.net> <20020612022117.GS14322@8ball.wox.org> <200206120232.g5C2WeOg003701@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <200206112257.37890.dep@linuxandmain.com>

begin  Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu's  quote:

| If somebody didn't feed the trolls, they'd starve, and then they'd
| be extinct, and future generations wouldn't know what they were.
|
| Think of the children, man!

to say nothing of kde.
-- 
dep

http://www.linuxandmain.com -- outside the box, barely within the 
envelope, and no animated paperclip anywhere.


From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu  Tue Jun 11 20:04:31 2002
From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: Thanks to you both (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification]) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 11 Jun 2002 22:57:37 EDT."
             <200206112257.37890.dep@linuxandmain.com> 
References: <20020610212615.GK936@zork.net> <20020612022117.GS14322@8ball.wox.org> <200206120232.g5C2WeOg003701@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
            <200206112257.37890.dep@linuxandmain.com>
Message-ID: <200206120304.g5C34WOg003923@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>

On Tue, 11 Jun 2002 22:57:37 EDT, dep <dep@linuxandmain.com>  said:

> to say nothing of kde.

Yeah, better feed that too.


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Tue Jun 11 20:17:10 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:19 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Groove to the Hacking Song
In-Reply-To: <20020612023905.GP19833@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20020612023905.GP19833@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20020612031710.GJ936@zork.net>

begin  Rick Moen Lives Three Hours from Nowhere  quotation:
> They have put out a request for people to supply free music that can
> be streamed out. 

	Pedro, you should send them xy003!

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From junasts at subdimension.com  Tue Jun 11 20:29:16 2002
From: junasts at subdimension.com (Last Judgement Samuel)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:20 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Groove to the Hacking Song
In-Reply-To: <20020612023905.GP19833@linuxmafia.com> (Rick Moen's message of
 "Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:39:05 -0700")
References: <20020612023905.GP19833@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <87hek9rx83.fsf@tyrell.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>

>>>>> "RM" == Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com> writes:

    RM> -- Mel Gorman MSc Student, University of Limerick

University
Of Limerick: off-color,
But there is no zinc.

                                        -- Last Judgement Samuel

P.S. Add an "it's" before "off-color" if you pronounce "Limerick" with
two syllables.

-- 
+++ Last Judgement Samuel + junasts@subdimension.com + 0x8D3E92DE +++


From squinky at dasbistro.com  Tue Jun 11 21:52:02 2002
From: squinky at dasbistro.com (Not Erik)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:20 2005
Subject: Thanks to you both (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification])
In-Reply-To: <200206120232.g5C2WeOg003701@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
References: <20020610143039.D62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020610214605.GL936@zork.net> <20020610145607.E62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020610221005.GM936@zork.net> <20020610151627.F62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020612001114.GJ22379@zork.net> <20020612005310.GA26141@dasbistro.com> <200206120114.g5C1EaOg002429@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20020612022117.GS14322@8ball.wox.org> <200206120232.g5C2WeOg003701@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <20020612045201.GA29477@dasbistro.com>

On Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 10:32:34PM -0400, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
> If somebody didn't feed the trolls, they'd starve, and then they'd be
> extinct, and future generations wouldn't know what they were.

Technically, I wasn't trolling.  I didn't expect anyone to actually
bite.  I just felt like participating in the vi/emacs argument with
something more interesting than "w00 pico!"

> Think of the children, man!

Children, hell.  Think of the TCO.



From carlos at laviola.org  Tue Jun 11 22:16:04 2002
From: carlos at laviola.org (Carlos Laviola)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:20 2005
Subject: Thanks to you both (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification])
In-Reply-To: <20020612045201.GA29477@dasbistro.com>
References: <20020610214605.GL936@zork.net> <20020610145607.E62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020610221005.GM936@zork.net> <20020610151627.F62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020612001114.GJ22379@zork.net> <20020612005310.GA26141@dasbistro.com> <200206120114.g5C1EaOg002429@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20020612022117.GS14322@8ball.wox.org> <200206120232.g5C2WeOg003701@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20020612045201.GA29477@dasbistro.com>
Message-ID: <20020612051604.GC15436@laviola.org>

On Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 09:52:02PM -0700, Not Erik wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 10:32:34PM -0400, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
> > If somebody didn't feed the trolls, they'd starve, and then they'd be
> > extinct, and future generations wouldn't know what they were.
> 
> Technically, I wasn't trolling.  I didn't expect anyone to actually
> bite.  I just felt like participating in the vi/emacs argument with
> something more interesting than "w00 pico!"

Weren't we talking about free editors?

-- 
 _ _  _| _  _  | _   . _ | _   icq -> bad -|- jabber -> good
(_(_|| |(_)_)  |(_|\/|(_)|(_|  Support Scientology! http://xenu.net


From squinky at dasbistro.com  Tue Jun 11 22:50:54 2002
From: squinky at dasbistro.com (Not Erik)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:20 2005
Subject: Thanks to you both (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification])
In-Reply-To: <20020612051604.GC15436@laviola.org>
References: <20020610145607.E62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020610221005.GM936@zork.net> <20020610151627.F62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020612001114.GJ22379@zork.net> <20020612005310.GA26141@dasbistro.com> <200206120114.g5C1EaOg002429@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20020612022117.GS14322@8ball.wox.org> <200206120232.g5C2WeOg003701@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20020612045201.GA29477@dasbistro.com> <20020612051604.GC15436@laviola.org>
Message-ID: <20020612055054.GA31857@dasbistro.com>

On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 02:16:04AM -0300, Carlos Laviola wrote:
> 
> Weren't we talking about free editors?

I'll have to go back and look for the part where 'free' was specified.

And as a discussion, is kind of lacked value.  I don't have it
committed to memory, but it seemed to be "vi sux, emacs sux", which is
where the vi/emacs argument usually goes.  I offer to you that my
contribution to the discussion was as valuable and dedicated to the
topic as anyone else on the thread.

Sorry to disappoint, but the vi/emacs argument just isn't much of a
valuable source of dialogue anymore.  It may never have been any
better than the ford/chevy or coke/pepsi argument.

For the record, though, and in the spirit of the thread, I use vim.
My only reason is because all (er, almost all) unix machines have some
variant of vi on them, and if I get used to emacs I'll be disappointed
when I go to an unfamiliar machine that has no emacs, which is often.
But I like stuff like syntax hilighting, so vim.

There.  My fucking valuable contribution to the vi/emacs thing.  Now
the thread's going to degrade away from something fun like trolling.
If it gets bad enough, I'll be forced to revert to drawing ascii
penises.



From carlos at laviola.org  Tue Jun 11 22:08:39 2002
From: carlos at laviola.org (Carlos Laviola)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:20 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Groove to the Hacking Song
In-Reply-To: <20020612023905.GP19833@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20020612023905.GP19833@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20020612050839.GB15436@laviola.org>

On Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 07:39:05PM -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
> ----- Forwarded message from Mel <mel@csn.ul.ie> -----
> 
> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 03:31:50 +0100 (IST)
> From: Mel <mel@csn.ul.ie>
> To: ilug@linux.ie
> Subject: [ILUG] Free Music and OGG
> 
> This might be considered off-topic, depends on your perspective. There was
> a wallops message on irc.openprojects.net (lots of Linux projects there
> including kernelnewbies and lkdp) 10 minutes ago in the late afternoon
> (mel time, 3:23 in the morning for the rest of Ireland). They have started
> streaming free music at http://linuxpowered.com:10000/wopn-modem.ogg (low
> bitrate) and http://linuxpowered.com:10000/wopn-broadband.ogg . They have

Seems like the transmission has ended already.  Both xmms and mpg123
tell me "404 Source Not Found", which probably means they're only
streaming proprietary, sourceless music now.

Bastards.

-- 
 _ _  _| _  _  | _   . _ | _   icq -> bad -|- jabber -> good
(_(_|| |(_)_)  |(_|\/|(_)|(_|  Support Scientology! http://xenu.net


From carlos at laviola.org  Wed Jun 12 05:31:23 2002
From: carlos at laviola.org (Carlos Laviola)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:20 2005
Subject: Thanks to you both (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification])
In-Reply-To: <20020612055054.GA31857@dasbistro.com>
References: <20020610221005.GM936@zork.net> <20020610151627.F62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020612001114.GJ22379@zork.net> <20020612005310.GA26141@dasbistro.com> <200206120114.g5C1EaOg002429@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20020612022117.GS14322@8ball.wox.org> <200206120232.g5C2WeOg003701@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20020612045201.GA29477@dasbistro.com> <20020612051604.GC15436@laviola.org> <20020612055054.GA31857@dasbistro.com>
Message-ID: <20020612123123.GB23281@laviola.org>

On Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 10:50:54PM -0700, Not Erik wrote:
> There.  My fucking valuable contribution to the vi/emacs thing.  Now
> the thread's going to degrade away from something fun like trolling.
> If it gets bad enough, I'll be forced to revert to drawing ascii
> penises.

__     ___    _ ____ _______ 
\ \   / / |  | |  _ \__   __|
 \ \_/ /| |__| | |_) | | |   
  \   / |  __  |  _ <  | |   
   | |  | |  | | |_) | | |   
   |_|  |_|  |_|____/  |_|   
                             
                             
-- 
 _ _  _| _  _  | _   . _ | _   icq -> bad -|- jabber -> good
(_(_|| |(_)_)  |(_|\/|(_)|(_|  Support Scientology! http://xenu.net


From /home/jordanb/easy-j at hafd.org  Wed Jun 12 02:10:18 2002
From: /home/jordanb/easy-j at hafd.org (/home/jordanb/easy-j@hafd.org)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:20 2005
Subject: Thanks to you both (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification])
In-Reply-To: <200206120232.g5C2WeOg003701@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>; from Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu on Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 10:32:34PM -0400
References: <20020610143039.D62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020610214605.GL936@zork.net> <20020610145607.E62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020610221005.GM936@zork.net> <20020610151627.F62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020612001114.GJ22379@zork.net> <20020612005310.GA26141@dasbistro.com> <200206120114.g5C1EaOg002429@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20020612022117.GS14322@8ball.wox.org> <200206120232.g5C2WeOg003701@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <20020612041018.A31373@hafd.org>

On Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 10:32:34PM -0400, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Jun 2002 21:21:17 CDT, "Brian D. Hicks" <hick0142@tc.umn.edu>  said:
> 
> > You are so slow you'd have to speed up to stop.
> 
> If somebody didn't feed the trolls, they'd starve, and then they'd be
> extinct, and future generations wouldn't know what they were.

Fuck that's a lame followup. Do yourself a favor and ask Dr. T to teach
you how to breakdance.

-- 
Jordan Bettis <http://www.hafd.org/~jordanb>
Should array indicies start at 0 or 1? My compromise of 0.5 was
rejected without, I thought, proper consideration.
         -- Stan Kelly-Bootle


From sneakums at zork.net  Wed Jun 12 07:47:38 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:20 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: Thanks to you both (Was: [!CrackMonkey!]
 [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification])
In-Reply-To: <20020612041018.A31373@hafd.org> (/home/jordanb/easy-j@hafd.org's
 message of "Wed, 12 Jun 2002 04:10:18 -0500")
References: <20020610143039.D62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com>
	<20020610214605.GL936@zork.net>
	<20020610145607.E62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com>
	<20020610221005.GM936@zork.net>
	<20020610151627.F62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com>
	<20020612001114.GJ22379@zork.net>
	<20020612005310.GA26141@dasbistro.com>
	<200206120114.g5C1EaOg002429@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
	<20020612022117.GS14322@8ball.wox.org>
	<200206120232.g5C2WeOg003701@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
	<20020612041018.A31373@hafd.org>
Message-ID: <6uvg8o365x.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  /home/jordanb/easy-j@hafd.org quotation:

> On Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 10:32:34PM -0400, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
>> On Tue, 11 Jun 2002 21:21:17 CDT, "Brian D. Hicks" <hick0142@tc.umn.edu>  said:
>> If somebody didn't feed the trolls, they'd starve, and then they'd be
>> extinct, and future generations wouldn't know what they were.
>
> Fuck that's a lame followup. Do yourself a favor and ask Dr. T to
> teach you how to breakdance.

Do yourself a favour and learn to configure your MTA properly, you
mumbling fuckwit.

-- 
"Using a free version of vi is not a sin; it is a penance.
 So happy hacking."
	-- Richard Stallman


From nick at zork.net  Wed Jun 12 08:39:34 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:20 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification]
Message-ID: <20020612153934.GM936@zork.net>

Awwwww, do the witto spammoos scawe yooooo?

----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net -----

branden+penpxzbaxrl-shpxurnqf@deadbeast.net has been successfully
subscribed to CrackMonkey.



----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From /home/jordanb/easy-j at hafd.org  Wed Jun 12 08:46:10 2002
From: /home/jordanb/easy-j at hafd.org (jordanb@hafd.org)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:20 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: Thanks to you both (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification])
In-Reply-To: <6uvg8o365x.fsf@zork.zork.net>; from sneakums@zork.net on Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 03:47:38PM +0100
References: <20020610145607.E62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020610221005.GM936@zork.net> <20020610151627.F62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020612001114.GJ22379@zork.net> <20020612005310.GA26141@dasbistro.com> <200206120114.g5C1EaOg002429@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20020612022117.GS14322@8ball.wox.org> <200206120232.g5C2WeOg003701@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20020612041018.A31373@hafd.org> <6uvg8o365x.fsf@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020612104610.A4685@hafd.org>

On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 03:47:38PM +0100, Sean Neakums wrote:
> Do yourself a favour and learn to configure your MTA properly, you
> mumbling fuckwit.

Do yourself a favor and:

A) Learn how to recognize the difference between a misconfigured MTA
and a malformed 'From:' field and

B) Learn how to spell 'favor' using proper English rather than that
pinko commonwealth shit.

-- 
Jordan Bettis <http://www.hafd.org/~jordanb>
Modern art is what happens when painters stop looking at girls and 
persuade themselves that they have a better idea. 
          -- John Ciardi


From sneakums at zork.net  Wed Jun 12 08:48:15 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:20 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey
 subscription notification]
In-Reply-To: <20020612153934.GM936@zork.net> (Nick Moffitt's message of
 "Wed, 12 Jun 2002 08:39:34 -0700")
References: <20020612153934.GM936@zork.net>
Message-ID: <6uk7p433cw.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  Nick Moffitt quotation:

> Awwwww, do the witto spammoos scawe yooooo?

Some people will do *anything* to avoid making a little effort.

> ----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner@zork.net -----
>
> branden+penpxzbaxrl-shpxurnqf@deadbeast.net has been successfully
> subscribed to CrackMonkey.
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
$ sudo apt-get install mail-followup-to
The following extra packages will be installed:
  rough-consensus running-code
0 packages upgraded, 3 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0  not upgraded.


From sneakums at zork.net  Wed Jun 12 08:51:43 2002
From: sneakums at zork.net (Sean Neakums)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:20 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: Thanks to you both (Was: [!CrackMonkey!]
 [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification])
In-Reply-To: <20020612104610.A4685@hafd.org> ("jordanb@hafd.org"'s message
 of "Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:46:10 -0500")
References: <20020610145607.E62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com>
	<20020610221005.GM936@zork.net>
	<20020610151627.F62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com>
	<20020612001114.GJ22379@zork.net>
	<20020612005310.GA26141@dasbistro.com>
	<200206120114.g5C1EaOg002429@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
	<20020612022117.GS14322@8ball.wox.org>
	<200206120232.g5C2WeOg003701@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
	<20020612041018.A31373@hafd.org> <6uvg8o365x.fsf@zork.zork.net>
	<20020612104610.A4685@hafd.org>
Message-ID: <6ufzzs3374.fsf@zork.zork.net>

commence  jordanbc quotation:

> From: "jordanb@hafd.org" </home/jordanb/easy-j@hafd.org>
> [wibble wibble snipped]

Still broken.

-- 
"APT is merely the vessel in which the true genius of the Debian
 Project, its Policy, is transmitted to you, the user."
	-- Eamon de Valera


From smcmahon at eiv.com  Wed Jun 12 09:04:14 2002
From: smcmahon at eiv.com (Shawn McMahon)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:20 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification]
In-Reply-To: <6uk7p433cw.fsf@zork.zork.net>
References: <20020612153934.GM936@zork.net> <6uk7p433cw.fsf@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020612160413.GA24784@eiv.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

begin  Sean Neakums quotation:
> 
> Some people will do *anything* to avoid making a little effort.

For instance, some people don't trim their quotes.

- -- 
Shawn McMahon                    | McMahon's Laws of Linux support:
http://www.eiv.com               | 1) There's more than one way to do it
AIM: spmcmahonfedex, smcmahoneiv | 2) Somebody thinks your way is wrong
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iEYEARECAAYFAj0HcP0ACgkQEcl9bQ0RMt2AyQCglNFqQLhdl6NbcchLbIDShEsW
/ekAn2FSXqyMTG8YrI8svJWgM+dQ9X6P
=B0j6
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From nick at zork.net  Wed Jun 12 09:12:17 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:20 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] home gauss rifle
Message-ID: <20020612161217.GO936@zork.net>

http://scitoys.com/scitoys/scitoys/magnets/gauss.html
> This very simple toy uses a magnetic chain reaction to launch a
> steel marble at a target at high speed. The toy is very simple to
> build, going together in minutes, and is very simple to understand
> and explain, and yet fascinating to watch and to use.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From jordanb at hafd.org  Wed Jun 12 09:16:19 2002
From: jordanb at hafd.org (cool-hand-j)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:20 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Re: Thanks to you both (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification])
In-Reply-To: <6ufzzs3374.fsf@zork.zork.net>; from sneakums@zork.net on Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 04:51:43PM +0100
References: <20020610151627.F62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020612001114.GJ22379@zork.net> <20020612005310.GA26141@dasbistro.com> <200206120114.g5C1EaOg002429@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20020612022117.GS14322@8ball.wox.org> <200206120232.g5C2WeOg003701@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20020612041018.A31373@hafd.org> <6uvg8o365x.fsf@zork.zork.net> <20020612104610.A4685@hafd.org> <6ufzzs3374.fsf@zork.zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020612111619.A5348@hafd.org>

On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 04:51:43PM +0100, Sean Neakums wrote:
> commence  jordanbc quotation:
> 
> > From: "jordanb@hafd.org" </home/jordanb/easy-j@hafd.org>
> > [wibble wibble snipped]
> 
> Still broken.

You figure that out all by yourself, did you?

-- 
Jordan Bettis <http://www.hafd.org/~jordanb>
There are two ways to write error-free programs; only the third one works.
          -- Alan J Perlis: Epigrams in Programming, ACM SIGPLAN 1982


From nick at zork.net  Wed Jun 12 09:25:13 2002
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:20 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Transgressing the Boundaries: Toward a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity
Message-ID: <20020612162513.GQ936@zork.net>

http://www.physics.nyu.edu/faculty/sokal/lingua_franca_v4/lingua_franca_v4.html
> For some years I've been troubled by an apparent decline in the
> standards of intellectual rigor in certain precincts of the American
> academic humanities. But I'm a mere physicist: if I find myself
> unable to make head or tail of jouissance and diff?rance, perhaps
> that just reflects my own inadequacy.
> 
> So, to test the prevailing intellectual standards, I decided to try
> a modest (though admittedly uncontrolled) experiment: Would a
> leading North American journal of cultural studies -- whose
> editorial collective includes such luminaries as Fredric Jameson and
> Andrew Ross -- publish an article liberally salted with nonsense if
> (a) it sounded good and (b) it flattered the editors' ideological
> preconceptions?



-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From schoen at loyalty.org  Wed Jun 12 10:10:19 2002
From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:20 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Transgressing the Boundaries: Toward a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity
In-Reply-To: <20020612162513.GQ936@zork.net>
References: <20020612162513.GQ936@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020612171019.GO17498@zork.net>

Nick Moffitt writes:

> > So, to test the prevailing intellectual standards, I decided to try
> > a modest (though admittedly uncontrolled) experiment: Would a
> > leading North American journal of cultural studies -- whose
> > editorial collective includes such luminaries as Fredric Jameson and
> > Andrew Ross -- publish an article liberally salted with nonsense if
> > (a) it sounded good and (b) it flattered the editors' ideological
> > preconceptions?

Dude, the _Social Text_ hoax is so six years ago!

(It might be a good thing for me to ask Biella about, though.)

-- 
Seth David Schoen <schoen@loyalty.org> | Reading is a right, not a feature!
     http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/   |                 -- Kathryn Myronuk
     http://vitanuova.loyalty.org/     |


From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Wed Jun 12 10:18:50 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:20 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] Transgressing the Boundaries: Toward a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity
In-Reply-To: <20020612171019.GO17498@zork.net>
References: <20020612162513.GQ936@zork.net> <20020612171019.GO17498@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020612171850.GR936@zork.net>

begin  The ASCII Floating Head of Seth David Schoen  quotation:
> Dude, the _Social Text_ hoax is so six years ago!

	Yeah, it was 1996.

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From smcmahon at eiv.com  Wed Jun 12 10:26:51 2002
From: smcmahon at eiv.com (Shawn McMahon)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:20 2005
Subject: [!CrackMonkey!] You frat boys are in for it now
Message-ID: <20020612172651.GA25141@eiv.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

http://www.rense.com/general26/masons.htm


- -- 
Shawn McMahon                    | McMahon's Laws of Linux support:
http://www.eiv.com               | 1) There's more than one way to do it
AIM: spmcmahonfedex, smcmahoneiv | 2) Somebody thinks your way is wrong
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iEYEARECAAYFAj0HhFoACgkQEcl9bQ0RMt2CSACeKllwN4OuPp+2XIeFemJVJ+QF
3cQAoP8wHcfqBdf8BUd/k0D76z6jN0vG
=Kn2b
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From squinky at dasbistro.com  Wed Jun 12 10:48:47 2002
From: squinky at dasbistro.com (Not Erik)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:20 2005
Subject: Thanks to you both (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification])
In-Reply-To: <20020612123123.GB23281@laviola.org>
References: <20020610151627.F62118@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20020612001114.GJ22379@zork.net> <20020612005310.GA26141@dasbistro.com> <200206120114.g5C1EaOg002429@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20020612022117.GS14322@8ball.wox.org> <200206120232.g5C2WeOg003701@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20020612045201.GA29477@dasbistro.com> <20020612051604.GC15436@laviola.org> <20020612055054.GA31857@dasbistro.com> <20020612123123.GB23281@laviola.org>
Message-ID: <20020612174846.GB13715@dasbistro.com>

On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 09:31:23AM -0300, Carlos Laviola wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 10:50:54PM -0700, Not Erik wrote:
> > There.  My fucking valuable contribution to the vi/emacs thing.  Now
> > the thread's going to degrade away from something fun like trolling.
> > If it gets bad enough, I'll be forced to revert to drawing ascii
> > penises.
> 
> __     ___    _ ____ _______ 
> \ \   / / |  | |  _ \__   __|
>  \ \_/ /| |__| | |_) | | |   
>   \   / |  __  |  _ <  | |   
>    | |  | |  | | |_) | | |   
>    |_|  |_|  |_|____/  |_|   


Turnabout is fair play, then.

I think next time I say something stupid on a mailing list and someone
points out that I said something stupid, YHBT would be a good way to
respond.

I totally meant to do that.




From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Wed Jun 12 10:54:59 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:20 2005
Subject: Thanks to you both (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification])
In-Reply-To: <20020612174846.GB13715@dasbistro.com>
References: <20020612001114.GJ22379@zork.net> <20020612005310.GA26141@dasbistro.com> <200206120114.g5C1EaOg002429@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20020612022117.GS14322@8ball.wox.org> <200206120232.g5C2WeOg003701@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20020612045201.GA29477@dasbistro.com> <20020612051604.GC15436@laviola.org> <20020612055054.GA31857@dasbistro.com> <20020612123123.GB23281@laviola.org> <20020612174846.GB13715@dasbistro.com>
Message-ID: <20020612175459.GT936@zork.net>

begin  Not Erik  quotation:
> I think next time I say something stupid on a mailing list and
> someone points out that I said something stupid, YHBT would be a
> good way to respond.
> 
> I totally meant to do that.

	YOU GO BOYEEEE!

	You got a kickass plan for savin' face!

	Go flame snatcher!  See how it works!

-- 
INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION
end 
	01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! 
        ^	    (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.)


From claviola at ax.net.br  Wed Jun 12 10:58:44 2002
From: claviola at ax.net.br (Carlos Laviola)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:20 2005
Subject: Thanks to you both (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification])
In-Reply-To: <20020612174846.GB13715@dasbistro.com>
References: <20020612001114.GJ22379@zork.net> <20020612005310.GA26141@dasbistro.com> <200206120114.g5C1EaOg002429@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20020612022117.GS14322@8ball.wox.org> <200206120232.g5C2WeOg003701@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20020612045201.GA29477@dasbistro.com> <20020612051604.GC15436@laviola.org> <20020612055054.GA31857@dasbistro.com> <20020612123123.GB23281@laviola.org> <20020612174846.GB13715@dasbistro.com>
Message-ID: <20020612175844.GA5911@alternex.com.br>

On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 10:48:47AM -0700, Not Erik wrote:
> Turnabout is fair play, then.
> 
> I think next time I say something stupid on a mailing list and someone
> points out that I said something stupid, YHBT would be a good way to
> respond.

I read your words, but I cannot understand them.

-- 
Carlos Laviola <claviola@ax.net.br>
AlterNex S/A - (21) 2515-0500


From squinky at dasbistro.com  Wed Jun 12 11:00:07 2002
From: squinky at dasbistro.com (Not Erik)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56:20 2005
Subject: Thanks to you both (Was: [!CrackMonkey!] [mailman-owner@zork.net: CrackMonkey subscription notification])
In-Reply-To: <20020612175459.GT936@zork.net>
References: <20020612005310.GA26141@dasbistro.com> <200206120114.g5C1EaOg002429@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20020612022117.GS14322@8ball.wox.org> <200206120232.g5C2WeOg003701@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20020612045201.GA29477@dasbistro.com> <20020612051604.GC15436@laviola.org> <20020612055054.GA31857@dasbistro.com> <20020612123123.GB23281@laviola.org> <20020612174846.GB13715@dasbistro.com> <20020612175459.GT936@zork.net>
Message-ID: <20020612180007.GC13715@dasbistro.com>

On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 10:54:59AM -0700, Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco wrote:
> 
> 	YOU GO BOYEEEE!
> 
> 	You got a kickass plan for savin' face!
> 
> 	Go flame snatcher!  See how it works!

Fuggin right.  Things are turning around for me now.

Someone pass me a Zima.  I'm one of the cool people.




From monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org  Wed Jun 12 11:05:01 2002
From: monkeymaster at crackmonkey.org (Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco)
Date: Fri Jul  8 18:56: